http://rt.com/news/hague-mladic-tribunal-evidence/

 

Source - Russia Today/rt.com

 

I'm actually beginning to wonder to be honest.. Many things about this make me wonder, and it doesn't really seem so clear-cut as the Western Media first presented the conflict in the Former Yugoslavia.. The facts are that there were Serb, Croat, Bosnian and Kosovan war criminals, but the main emphasis has always been on presenting the Serbs as the "Hollywood Baddies", and everyone else as the "helpless victims" of Serb aggression.. Complete and utter crap frankly, the Croat, Bosnian and Kosovan leaderships were just as prone to extreme, violent nationalism as Milosevic was, one of the Kosovan leaders was a wanted criminal who dealt in organ parts and had suspected links to organised crime, Tudjman, the Croatian dictator, would likely have been indicted on war crimes too, had he not died. But the fact remains that there wasn't really very much said in the western press about Croatian atrocities..

 

Several cases against Bosnian, Croatian and Kosovan war criminals have been mysteriously dropped because of apparent "lack of evidence", these suspected criminals have now become politicians in their respective States... Far be it from me to cry "Conspiracy" here, but, there is something very hinkey about this.....

 

I have doubts for several reasons..

 

1. The current Serbian Government seems to have allowed Mladic to be extradited for reasons of political expediency, they want membership of the EU and access to the many billions of EU grants and subsidies that will come with membership - in short, they're going for the jackpot on the EU lottery..

 

2. There are doubts as to Mladic's health. Yeah, I know that this could be a stalling tactic, or else kind of sound like another "Pinochet" or "Al-Megraghi" Get Out of Jail Free Card situation, but it seems like only a State medical has been done on Mladic and passed him fit to be extradited, and not any kind of independent medical tests.

 

3. They handed over Mladic like they asked, but the French have already said that Serbia has to hand over more suspected war criminals before it will be granted entry into the EU. So, it seems that the "carrot-stick" effect may be in place here, and the West just wants to further humiliate Serbia with vague promises which may not actually come to fruition. This has led to riots and protests in Belgrade over the weekend. Of course, this has been reported as being "Pro-Mladic" supporters, but it's really not as simple as that, there is deep discontent amongst the young generation particularly in Serbia who are not exactly happy about the current Serbian Government for a whole number of reasons, it's just this has brought matters to a head... Many young Serbs are discontented with being made to feel blame for things they had no part in or any control over. And the fact that there is this apparent disparity over how Serbia is treated compared to other countries in the Former Yugoslavia... I have to say, I have some sympathy for this feeling, Serbia is being made the scapegoat when everyone was doing some pretty horrible things, and the younger generation (mainly teenagers and people in their early 20s) are expected to suffer for the sins of their fathers...

 

So, can Mladic get a fair trial..? Actually, to be honest, the question should probably be, will Ratko Mladic even live through to the end of the trial..? Milosevic died during his trial, and he was a lot healthier at the beginning than Mladic is said to be.... But, what can we do..? We cant exactly let him get away with it if he is guilty... This is a real thorny issue, and one which isn't going to have a satisfactory conclusion, I feel....

The Balkan Wars have always fascinated me. I was only a kid when it all started, but even I can remember the news bulletins about it. I also remember how nobody did anything to stop it.

 

From what I've read and heard, the Croats definitely weren't squeaky clean either. There were definitely atrocities on both sides of the war (quite like the civil war in Spain), but there's no denying that Srebrenica didn't do any favours to Serbia's reputation. The Serb soldiers were absolute animals. Beheading children, throwing the heads around town, and slitting babies' throats. It was completely barbaric. But there's definitely more evidence that Mladic was behind it than bin Laden was completely behind 9/11. And what I want to know is why the Dutch soldiers who were in Srebrenica just watched this all unfold before them without lifting a finger.

 

Croatia's wrong-doings have been kept hidden, and quite frankly I'd rather they didn't enter the EU (for various different reasons, not all their own fault). Serbia is the same, but mostly because a hefty proportion of the population actually supported that war, and still support Mladic. I tend to have a lot more sympathy for Bosnia as they definitely got the brunt of the damage during the war. Still, progress has to be made there. And also they are heading for a new crisis which should be monitored very closely. With regards Kosovo, they definitely weren't innocent either. But who were they fighting against again? Oh yes, Serbia. It's funny how Serbia threw a fit about Kosovo breaking away, yet Srpska tried (and are still trying) to break up Bosnia. I don't mind if Srpska want independence or to join with Serbia, but you can't treat an ethnic minority (Albanians) in your own country (Serbia) like dirt and not expect them to want to govern themselves.

 

Will Mladic get a fair trial? Well, I hope so. But another part of me doesn't really care. I hope justice is done, and I hope they catch more of the likes of him (whether they are Serbian, Crotation etc. doesn't matter). And it angers me so much when they say "But he may be too sick to stand trial!". I don't see why that should deter from the actual matter at hand. He still ordered the murder of thousands of Bosniaks. I don't give a shit if he's had two strokes. Lock him up and throw away the key.

The Balkan Wars have always fascinated me. I was only a kid when it all started, but even I can remember the news bulletins about it. I also remember how nobody did anything to stop it.

 

From what I've read and heard, the Croats definitely weren't squeaky clean either. There were definitely atrocities on both sides of the war (quite like the civil war in Spain), but there's no denying that Srebrenica didn't do any favours to Serbia's reputation. The Serb soldiers were absolute animals. Beheading children, throwing the heads around town, and slitting babies' throats. It was completely barbaric. But there's definitely more evidence that Mladic was behind it than bin Laden was completely behind 9/11. And what I want to know is why the Dutch soldiers who were in Srebrenica just watched this all unfold before them without lifting a finger.

 

Croatia's wrong-doings have been kept hidden, and quite frankly I'd rather they didn't enter the EU (for various different reasons, not all their own fault). Serbia is the same, but mostly because a hefty proportion of the population actually supported that war, and still support Mladic. I tend to have a lot more sympathy for Bosnia as they definitely got the brunt of the damage during the war. Still, progress has to be made there. And also they are heading for a new crisis which should be monitored very closely. With regards Kosovo, they definitely weren't innocent either. But who were they fighting against again? Oh yes, Serbia. It's funny how Serbia threw a fit about Kosovo breaking away, yet Srpska tried (and are still trying) to break up Bosnia. I don't mind if Srpska want independence or to join with Serbia, but you can't treat an ethnic minority (Albanians) in your own country (Serbia) like dirt and not expect them to want to govern themselves.

 

Will Mladic get a fair trial? Well, I hope so. But another part of me doesn't really care. I hope justice is done, and I hope they catch more of the likes of him (whether they are Serbian, Crotation etc. doesn't matter). And it angers me so much when they say "But he may be too sick to stand trial!". I don't see why that should deter from the actual matter at hand. He still ordered the murder of thousands of Bosniaks. I don't give a shit if he's had two strokes. Lock him up and throw away the key.

 

Like I say though, Kosovo isn't really a clear-cut situation... The Kosovars were, to many, a criminal and terrorist army, and their leaders do seem to have links to organised crime, so, I dunno, seems a bit iffy to me, and the conduct of how that conflict was fought left a lot to be desired IMO... And it doesn't exactly help the cause of The Hague war crimes tribunal either, that they seem "incapable" of prosecuting non-Serbs for war-crimes, I can kind of understand how many younger Serbs feel tbh, they had no part in it, but they still seem to be punished for something they had no control over because they were too young to know, or weren't even born..... And I'll never forgive the Western Media or Tony B-Liar for presenting the situation in such distorted black-and-white extremes when it was in fact anything but clear-cut.... I think in a lot of ways Blair should've been a co-defendant with Milosevic over Kosovo and Bosnia, but of course Blair then went on to be an even greater war criminal in Iraq, a hefty proportion of this country supported Iraq and Afghanistan, but that's not necessarily their fault, they/we were lied to.......

 

History is written by the the winners and often distorted for political ends.... I dont think we've even scratched the surface with regards to what really happened in Former Yugoslavia......

Like I say though, Kosovo isn't really a clear-cut situation... The Kosovars were, to many, a criminal and terrorist army, and their leaders do seem to have links to organised crime, so, I dunno, seems a bit iffy to me, and the conduct of how that conflict was fought left a lot to be desired IMO... And it doesn't exactly help the cause of The Hague war crimes tribunal either, that they seem "incapable" of prosecuting non-Serbs for war-crimes, I can kind of understand how many younger Serbs feel tbh, they had no part in it, but they still seem to be punished for something they had no control over because they were too young to know, or weren't even born..... And I'll never forgive the Western Media or Tony B-Liar for presenting the situation in such distorted black-and-white extremes when it was in fact anything but clear-cut.... I think in a lot of ways Blair should've been a co-defendant with Milosevic over Kosovo and Bosnia, but of course Blair then went on to be an even greater war criminal in Iraq, a hefty proportion of this country supported Iraq and Afghanistan, but that's not necessarily their fault, they/we were lied to.......

 

History is written by the the winners and often distorted for political ends.... I dont think we've even scratched the surface with regards to what really happened in Former Yugoslavia......

 

I definitely agree with that. I don't think any Balkan state, bar Slovenia (because I'm not that familiar with their role), doesn't have blood on their hands. Kosovo was very messy, but the root of the problem within the Balkans always seems to go back to Serbia and religion. Serb "Christians" against Bosnian and Albanian muslims. I'm not familiar with young Serbs and their views, as I've only ever seen the nationalist skinheads who crash Pride parades in Belgrade and congratulate mass murderers. Like Spain, I think the Balkans need to confront what happened. There's no point pointing fingers while your eyes are covered. They need to exhume the mass graves and they all need to take responsibility. It will be painful and quite slow, but I do believe that it's the only way to move forward. Spain have been doing it and it seems they might be "over" civil war politics. I also think the EU need to take a step back and review their role in the War too. Standing there watching it happen doesn't necessarily paint a nice image of an institution which is founded upon solidarity, peace and democracy.

I definitely agree with that. I don't think any Balkan state, bar Slovenia (because I'm not that familiar with their role), doesn't have blood on their hands. Kosovo was very messy, but the root of the problem within the Balkans always seems to go back to Serbia and religion. Serb "Christians" against Bosnian and Albanian muslims. I'm not familiar with young Serbs and their views, as I've only ever seen the nationalist skinheads who crash Pride parades in Belgrade and congratulate mass murderers. Like Spain, I think the Balkans need to confront what happened. There's no point pointing fingers while your eyes are covered. They need to exhume the mass graves and they all need to take responsibility. It will be painful and quite slow, but I do believe that it's the only way to move forward. Spain have been doing it and it seems they might be "over" civil war politics. I also think the EU need to take a step back and review their role in the War too. Standing there watching it happen doesn't necessarily paint a nice image of an institution which is founded upon solidarity, peace and democracy.

 

Well, the Croatians are Catholics too, and they were hardly blameless either.. The only reason Tudjman escaped indictment for war-crimes was because of the fact that he died in 1999 a "free man", so he escaped justice, as have many other Croatian criminals apparently. Milosevic wasn't quite so fortunate to die in office, and died in prison during his trial instead......

 

Sorry, but I dont buy this "blame the Serbs more than anyone else" stuff... It's the same propaganda crap that the West and the EU have been peddling for years and have been using it as a stick to continually beat Serbia with, while letting the other guilty parties pretty much get away with it. The younger generation are now, quite justifiably, becoming sick of it all. They had nothing to do with it, and yet they're still expected to put up with the situation. It's wrong, simple as... We wouldn't expect younger generations of Germans to feel misplaced guilt for the Nazis, so why should young Serbs, who either weren't born or were too young to know what was going on, feel any guilt over Milosevic, they didn't vote for the b'astard....

 

There's also a lot to be suspicious of in the way that the ICTY has conducted their affairs, IMO... It seems to me that they're furthering the agenda of the US and UK rather than actually trying to get to the full truth....

 

Sorry, but I dont buy this "blame the Serbs more than anyone else" stuff... It's the same propaganda crap that the West and the EU have been peddling for years and have been using it as a stick to continually beat Serbia with, while letting the other guilty parties pretty much get away with it. The younger generation are now, quite justifiably, becoming sick of it all. They had nothing to do with it, and yet they're still expected to put up with the situation. It's wrong, simple as... We wouldn't expect younger generations of Germans to feel misplaced guilt for the Nazis, so why should young Serbs, who either weren't born or were too young to know what was going on, feel any guilt over Milosevic, they didn't vote for the b'astard….

We did continue to blame all Germans for a long time though. Similarly some people still try to avoid anything Japanese. I still can't quite forgive Florida for inflicting Bush on us.

We did continue to blame all Germans for a long time though. Similarly some people still try to avoid anything Japanese. I still can't quite forgive Florida for inflicting Bush on us.

 

To be fair, that wasn't Florida, that was the Republicans in Florida.... :lol:

 

Well, the Croatians are Catholics too, and they were hardly blameless either.. The only reason Tudjman escaped indictment for war-crimes was because of the fact that he died in 1999 a "free man", so he escaped justice, as have many other Croatian criminals apparently. Milosevic wasn't quite so fortunate to die in office, and died in prison during his trial instead......

 

Sorry, but I dont buy this "blame the Serbs more than anyone else" stuff... It's the same propaganda crap that the West and the EU have been peddling for years and have been using it as a stick to continually beat Serbia with, while letting the other guilty parties pretty much get away with it. The younger generation are now, quite justifiably, becoming sick of it all. They had nothing to do with it, and yet they're still expected to put up with the situation. It's wrong, simple as... We wouldn't expect younger generations of Germans to feel misplaced guilt for the Nazis, so why should young Serbs, who either weren't born or were too young to know what was going on, feel any guilt over Milosevic, they didn't vote for the b'astard....

 

There's also a lot to be suspicious of in the way that the ICTY has conducted their affairs, IMO... It seems to me that they're furthering the agenda of the US and UK rather than actually trying to get to the full truth....

 

Well, yes, but I didn't vote for the arseholes who have ruined this country, but I have to live with the bad attitudes of the Germans and the French. :lol: I've lost count of the many times I've heard a German or French person call the entire Irish population "stupid". I know how the young Serbs must feel, having to live with the mistakes of our elders, but that's Europe for you. The biggest nations have the smallest minds.

 

The difference between Germany and Serbia is that the majority of the people who committed these crimes are still alive. Germany went through a long period of denazification and any Nazi insignia/worshiping is banned. From what I've read, this isn't the case in Serbia or any Balkan state. The criminals are still at large in these countries, and there doesn't seem to be any law against pro-war criminal rallies. Every time there is a Neo-Nazi rally in Dresden they are met with counter-rallies that are ten times bigger. The Germans, like the Spanish, have acknowledged their past. The Serbs/Croats etc. need to do this. It was only 19 years ago, I know, but like I said no country can move on if they don't take responsibility. And I'm aiming this at all Balkan countries, not just Serbia. Serbia sticks out like a sore thumb because it was the worst perpetrator, but they weren't the only ones.

 

I'm well aware of the attitude that the EU has towards Serbia. And the same with Turkey. I don't like how countries have to meet certain conditions to enter the EU while the main EU powers haven't done the same. I want Serbia, Croatia, Turkey etc. to take responsibility for what they did for themselves, not for anybody else, particularly not for the likes of France who seem to pretend the Algerian war never happened.

 

 

Well, yes, but I didn't vote for the arseholes who have ruined this country, but I have to live with the bad attitudes of the Germans and the French. :lol: I've lost count of the many times I've heard a German or French person call the entire Irish population "stupid". I know how the young Serbs must feel, having to live with the mistakes of our elders, but that's Europe for you. The biggest nations have the smallest minds.

 

The difference between Germany and Serbia is that the majority of the people who committed these crimes are still alive. Germany went through a long period of denazification and any Nazi insignia/worshiping is banned. From what I've read, this isn't the case in Serbia or any Balkan state. The criminals are still at large in these countries, and there doesn't seem to be any law against pro-war criminal rallies. Every time there is a Neo-Nazi rally in Dresden they are met with counter-rallies that are ten times bigger. The Germans, like the Spanish, have acknowledged their past. The Serbs/Croats etc. need to do this. It was only 19 years ago, I know, but like I said no country can move on if they don't take responsibility. And I'm aiming this at all Balkan countries, not just Serbia. Serbia sticks out like a sore thumb because it was the worst perpetrator, but they weren't the only ones.

 

I'm well aware of the attitude that the EU has towards Serbia. And the same with Turkey. I don't like how countries have to meet certain conditions to enter the EU while the main EU powers haven't done the same. I want Serbia, Croatia, Turkey etc. to take responsibility for what they did for themselves, not for anybody else, particularly not for the likes of France who seem to pretend the Algerian war never happened.

 

Well, I mean, if the EU keeps on bullying and beating them over the head, then it'll just create a siege mentality and they wont deal with it... Difference between WW2 and the Balkans is, that WW2 was a very clear-cut, pretty unambiguous straight up war between good and evil... The Balkans is NOTHING of the sort like that... There's no black and white with The Balkans, only shades of grey, and I'm not even all that convinced one side was any "worse" than the other... With Nazi Germany/Italy/Japan vs Britain/USA/France/Russia/Poland, etc, it's obvious and clear-cut, and it was a war between nations, not a war between "tribes" (for want of a better phrase) as The Balkans was.... Tribal war doesn't tend to be all that clear-cut.. Northern Ireland is another example of this, where the lines are very blurry....

Well, I mean, if the EU keeps on bullying and beating them over the head, then it'll just create a siege mentality and they wont deal with it... Difference between WW2 and the Balkans is, that WW2 was a very clear-cut, pretty unambiguous straight up war between good and evil... The Balkans is NOTHING of the sort like that... There's no black and white with The Balkans, only shades of grey, and I'm not even all that convinced one side was any "worse" than the other... With Nazi Germany/Italy/Japan vs Britain/USA/France/Russia/Poland, etc, it's obvious and clear-cut, and it was a war between nations, not a war between "tribes" (for want of a better phrase) as The Balkans was.... Tribal war doesn't tend to be all that clear-cut.. Northern Ireland is another example of this, where the lines are very blurry....

 

The EU need to back off. I firmly believe that countries have to overcome the past to move forward, but I understand that the constant nagging may put them off doing it. The EU seems to be great at finding problems but not very good at fixing them. No Balkan country should have to satisfy a Western nation. We [the West] all sat back and did nothing, so I think our leaders have the nerve to demand Mladic's capture as a pre-EU accession condition. Perhaps if they did something when it was all happening then they'd have charged him years ago?