I'm going for that as a pretty good sales figure, given the fairly large gap between albums, you'd expect interest to be lost, also she did literally no promo, and off the back of an unpromoted single. Putting it into perspective, The Saturdays had 2 top 10 singles and a further one just outside, quite a bit of airplay and only managed just over 18k. Plus Kate sold more than the albums that made number 5 for the past few weeks!

I think that is the worst possible comparison between two artists you could have given!

I think that is the worst possible comparison between two artists you could have given!

 

I think it was a pretty good comparison... the only other one would've been Pixie Lott... and people, thankfully, barely seem to remember who she is.

A week ago, I felt 3 songs were brill, one was fine and 3 were poor, one of which is Misty. Funny, I'm now starting to think this is in fact the stand-out track.

Anyone else find that, that sometimes a song which doesn't have instant appeal can end up sounding better in the long run than the songs that do?

Still not overwhelmed by Lake Tahoe and Among Angels though :)

I quit listening to the album a week ago.

Still not overwhelmed by Lake Tahoe and Among Angels though :)

 

I agree - Tahoe, in particular, is pretty unlistenable - and she's out of tune on some of it... especially where she's the old woman talking to her dog.... and I expected more from Among Angels. But that track...hmm..it is what it is I suppose.

 

The album, though, simply proves Kate Bush is the world's most innovative - and most copied - female artist alive right now. Yes, some of her copyists the world could do without ("Tonight Matthew, I'm going to be.... Totally Aimless" is a definite name that springs to mind)....but I think without Kate, there wouldn't be many many other female recording artists that I love.

 

And power to her. Genius.

How is the album proof that she's innovative?

 

the countless rape victims that found a source of strength and resilience in the fact that Tori wrote so openly about hers would disagree with your latter point.

Edited December 3, 201113 yr by tonyttt31

Tony...as a Totally Aimless fan, I wouldn't, for a minute, expect you to believe or understand why Kate Bush is so innovative.

 

So 50 Words For Snow. An album featuring songs about hunting for Yetis, an autobiographical account of a snowflake, a 13 minute love song to a snowman and an account of a night of passion with one, Stephen Fry reciting 50 words of mainly gobbldigook made-up words for snow with Bush egging him along whilst counting to 50, Elton John singing the song of his career playing the part of a time travelling lover throughout WW2 up to 9/11, her small son singing a soprano duet with his mother, an opera duet on a a 10 minute song about a ghost in a lake, a concept album based entirely on a weather pattern, and the absolute bare minimum of instrumentation from a lady known for throwng in the whole kaboodle... hmm... I don't know why I called her innovative, either... :rolleyes: :lol:

Some say innovative, others say self indulgent. It's a fine line...

 

Tony is clearly a fan of both Kate and Tori so it's hardly like he's going to criticise 50 Words For Snow for the sake of it. For the record, I do find your hatred for Tori unnecessary in the thread, it's like watching the bland and repetitive arguments in the iTunes thread between the respective fans of Olly or Joe where one just brings up the other purely to have an unnecessary dig.

 

It is possible to like both Kate and Tori you know... and those that can recognise that both have high and low points are probably those with opinions worth listening to.

Tony...as a Totally Aimless fan, I wouldn't, for a minute, expect you to believe or understand why Kate Bush is so innovative.

 

 

I wish you'd read your own posts. You said that the album is proof that she is innovative. It's not.

 

I could summarise many albums by many artists like you have just done and make them sound like no other album ever - and in truth most albums are innovative because they are not exactly like any other album ever created.

 

If I need to explain my position I will - Kate has been THE most innovative female in mainstream music for the last 30-odd years (with Bjork not far behind her) and has had a seismic effect on the music produced by many female artists that followed, and male ones too. It doesn't mean for a second that 50 Words for Snow is innovative. It's an album that you love - great. It doesn't make it any more special.

 

For someone with reasonable taste in music you're incredibly narrow minded.

 

 

Edited December 3, 201113 yr by tonyttt31

How is the album proof that she's innovative?

 

the countless rape victims that found a source of strength and resilience in the fact that Tori wrote so openly about hers would disagree with your latter point.

Now this clearly is not a demonstration of innovation but shows how strongly empathetic Tori is, which is probably her main strength in her music making whereas Kate (for me at least) has been way more innovative (as demonstrated by the numbers of female artists showing elements that Kate first brought to the fore in her music.)

 

I must confess that I have listened to 50 Words yet. But Wild Man didn't exactly overwhelm me like most Kate songs in the past. So I'm leaving it for a bit til I'm actually ready.

But that's what Tony meant... he didn't say Me And A Gun was innovative, he said that there are countless people around the world who found comfort/recognition in that song (well, maybe not as dependant as that but he was demonstrating that she has had an impact on people where as Russ was saying she'd had no impact whatsoever and the world could easily do without her).

 

(PS... sorry Tony, I do realise you don't need me to stick up for this!)

 

 

 

After listening to 50 Words For Snow several times now I have come to the conclusion that it's an extremely self indulgent album. There is enjoyment to be had from it but I find that I only enjoy it if I'm prepared to imagine what Kate was hoping to get out of it or listen to it more as a study, I can't just put the album on and actually just enjoy the music as I could with most of Kate's previous work. I don't think it's particularly innovative either, I can't say that I listen to it and think it's completely unlike anything I've ever heard before... if I was to compare it directly to other work, bizarrely I would actually compare it to Tori's 'Datura' as it's similarly pretentious.

 

Now this clearly is not a demonstration of innovation but shows how strongly empathetic Tori is, which is probably her main strength in her music making whereas Kate (for me at least) has been way more innovative (as demonstrated by the numbers of female artists showing elements that Kate first brought to the fore in her music.)

 

I never said she was as innovative as Kate. I was defending the claim that the world doesn't need her music when many people have benefited from it.

 

This isn't a competition - I'm just countering claims that russ has made. He's clearly a loon in sheep's clothing as he lacks objectivity as shown by his hatred of Tori Amos.

 

No problem, D.

I now make the claim that if Kate was unknown then this album would not be held up to be the work of a genius. It's no more innovative that taking 14 classical pieces and doing your own interpretation of them - or releasing a Christmas album of new or re-interpreted music.

Edited December 3, 201113 yr by tonyttt31

I never said she was as innovative as Kate. I was defending the claim that the world doesn't need her music when many people have benefited from it.

 

This isn't a competition - I'm just countering claims that russ has made. He's clearly a loon in sheep's clothing as he lacks objectivity as shown by his hatred of Tori Amos.

 

No problem, D.

Yep sorry Tony, you weren't. Obviously many people do love Tori's music and this should not be a competition. TBH I am getting fed up of these incessant Kate/Tori comparisons (and I know I have been guilty of it here). Russ is being a bit of a loon, which I understand being a complete Kate loon myself.

Yep sorry Tony, you weren't.

 

 

No problem. Sorry if I came across as defensive.

For the record, I do find your hatred for Tori unnecessary in the thread, it's like watching the bland and repetitive arguments in the iTunes thread between the respective fans of Olly or Joe where one just brings up the other purely to have an unnecessary dig.

 

It is possible to like both Kate and Tori you know... and those that can recognise that both have high and low points are probably those with opinions worth listening to.

 

I think if you read back, the comment that brough Aimless onto this thread was someone claiming she'd do a better job of 'Snowflake' off 50WFS.

 

And I realise it's quite possible to enjoy both artists. In fact, I think it'd be almost impossible to say you like Tori Amos without having an appreciation of Kate Bush.

 

One thing - why does it seem that anyone thinking outside the box these days is accused of 'self indulgence'? What a lazy criticism. This isn't Bjork we're talking about here, you know.

Oh, I'm going to get slaughtered for saying this but I was listening to Snowflake this morning and I thought it would be much more affecting if Tori sang it. Her voice, while clearly nothing compared to Kate's, would suit better and would have given it an edge that it lacks.

If tori Amos had sung Snowflake, I think she'd have overdone it... I'm not sure she knows how to underplay anything...

Yes, some of her copyists the world could do without ("Tonight Matthew, I'm going to be.... Totally Aimless" is a definite name that springs to mind)...

Tony...as a Totally Aimless fan, I wouldn't, for a minute, expect you to believe or understand why Kate Bush is so innovative.

 

Yes Tony may have initially mentioned her but it was done in a very neutral manner and gave his reason behind it... from then on, only one of you continually resorted to unnecessary jibes in a tiresome manner.

 

And for the record, I listen to many acts who think outside the box and wouldn't brand most of them as being self indulgent. That was something I was quite specifically aiming at this album as I genuinely think it is. It doesn't mean I hate it either, I can recognise it's positive moments too (and, for the record, I do think it's FAR better than any of Tori's albums of late!!!) but the album could have been so much better for me if she had kept a bit more focus on the songs, maybe allowed someone else in to give a neutral opinion as most of the songs are overly long and don't necessarily say anything that couldn't have been said in half the time.

 

I also wasn't referring to it being literally possible to like both acts (although I note you assume it's likely one way round!) - my point is that I would rarely trust an opinion that is so black or white in terms of love/hate for the acts. I'd be more interested in hearing the views of someone who can actually recognise the good and bad points of any respective artists.

 

 

If you happen to predominantly listen to chart music, then I guess Kate Bush might sound a little bit quirky and unusual. Discovering a radio 3 program called Late Junction has been an education. It plays tons of quirky and unusual music. Should I compare Olaf Arnalds to Kate Bush, because she is a female artiste with intersting tunes? Surrender and Crazy Car are great songs.

My ipod now contains loads of music that I think makes Kate Bush sound mainstream by comparison, oh and a lot of foreign language songs too that have divine tunes, like Herzan by Soap Kills.

I've never understood the apparent animosity regarding Tori, but I can say that my Dad didn't like the back cover to Little Earthquakes :o

Edited December 28, 201113 yr by house.martin

I dont think there's anything wrong with being self-indulgent if it create great work.

Tony...as a Totally Aimless fan, I wouldn't, for a minute, expect you to believe or understand why Kate Bush is so innovative.

 

 

Just seeing this now. I find this remark to be unnecessarily insulting. If you had your eyes open, you'd know well I hold Kate Bush and her music in high esteem - the fact that this has escaped you is testament to your blinkered attitude.