Duggan family's 'breakdown in confidence' in IPCC

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-16141820

 

The family of Mark Duggan has suffered a "complete breakdown in confidence" in the police watchdog, a pre-inquest review has heard.

 

Michael Mansfield QC, for the Duggan family, said "from the beginning there has been misinformation, a lack of information" from the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC).

 

Mr Duggan, 29, was killed by armed officers in north London on 4 August.

 

The IPCC admitted making a "mistake" by saying Mr Duggan had fired at officers.

No fingerprints

 

Anger over the shooting sparked riots in Tottenham on 6 August, with the unrest spreading across London and to other parts of England.

 

Mr Mansfield, who is also representing Mr Duggan's fiancée Semone Wilson, questioned Colin Sparrow, the lead investigator for the IPCC, during the hearing at North London Coroner's Court in High Barnet.

 

He said: "My first question is, you appreciate the anxiety that the family have about the investigation?

Continue reading the main story

“Start Quote

 

The problem for the family is a complete breakdown in confidence for this investigation”

 

Michael Mansfield QC

 

"And you are aware at least, one of the reasons is the misinformation that was broadcast at the beginning, close to the time Mark Duggan met his death.

 

"Misinformation suggesting some form of shoot-out, and you accept that was a serious mistake?"

 

Mr Sparrow replied: "It wasn't accurate", before adding: "It was a mistake."

 

Mr Mansfield continued: "The problem for the family is a complete breakdown in confidence for this investigation.

 

"While normally this question might not have to be asked because confidence is automatic, on this occasion, from the beginning, there has been misinformation, a lack of information, and conflicting information."

 

When questioned, Mr Sparrow agreed there were no fingerprints, DNA or blood relating to Mr Duggan on the non-police firearm found at the scene.

 

The court was told that a gun initially linked to Mr Duggan was actually found 14ft (4m) away from the crime scene in Ferry Lane, and on the other side of a fence.

 

Mr Mansfield said witnesses had said they had seen a police officer throw the weapon there.

He asked Mr Sparrow: "How on earth did the gun get over a fence 14ft away? Was it thrown there by a police officer?"

 

Mr Sparrow replied: "That's a suggestion, yes."

 

The barrister asked Mr Sparrow to explain why the pathologist's interim report was not made available to the family, who were also not told about the trajectory of the fatal bullet which would have clarified the position of the officers and Mr Duggan.

 

The investigator for the IPCC, which has been granted interested-party status in the inquest, said the report contained only a cause of death and the family were told verbally.

 

Mr Mansfield also told the hearing the family requested that an independent pathologist carry out tests on Mr Duggan's body, and for them to be given the chance to discuss their findings with the original pathologist - but this had not been allowed.

 

Mr Duggan, a father-of-four, was a passenger in a minicab which was stopped in Tottenham by police as part of a planned operation. He died of a single gunshot wound to the chest.

 

Initially, police said Mr Duggan had shot at officers, a claim that ballistic tests proved to be untrue.

 

Mr Mansfield told the hearing that two types of blood had been found on the gun - but neither belonged to Mr Duggan.

 

After the hearing, the IPCC released a statement in which it said Home Office pathologist Dr Simon Poole also found a second bullet had struck Mr Duggan's upper right arm.

 

The watchdog said two police-issue bullets and two police-issue shell casings had been recovered from the shooting scene.

 

Forensic tests showed both bullets and shell casings were fired from a single CO19 officer's MP5 carbine, while a non-police-issue firearm was also recovered.

 

The IPCC said it now estimates the investigation will be completed in April 2012.

 

Meanwhile, the hearing was told the full inquest into Mr Duggan's death would last between four and eight weeks and aim to begin during the second week of September 2012.

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I think it's pretty obvious now that the Met Police quite probably planted a "throw-away" weapon at the scene.. No DNA, no fingerprints, no blood evidence... NOTHING whatsoever to tie Mark Duggan in with the gun found at the scene... The Met kill another unarmed person, and create a narrative to try and cover their arses...... <_< We can add the name of Mark Duggan to Jean Charles De Menezes, Smiley Culture and Iain Tomlinson, Police murders which have taken place in the past few years, and NOT A SINGLE COPPER has been convicted as yet for any of it.... Will the family of Mark Duggan get any kind of justice...? So far, given the IPCC's disastrous handling of this affair, it's really not looking at all good....

 

But even more sinister is the Media silence over this. I had to find out about this on the BBC London page, there was a report on BBC London News about it yesterday, but I seem to remember the shooting of Mr Duggan being a national story at the time, as it was tied into the riots and was ultimately the root cause of the riots that happened in August.. So, basically, when the narrative is - "Police shoot armed drug dealer", the national media are all over it, when it's "Police Possibly Plant Evidence", the national media suddenly dont want to know and the story gets relegated to local outlets... Instead the BBC News chooses to regale us for five minutes with the stating-of-the-bleeding-obvious contained in the FSA's report into why RBS went tits up..... Yeah, like we didn't know the reasons for that three years ago.....

 

Shame on you BBC, and others, for not having the balls to run a story nationally that's critical of the Police.... -_-

..And now we can perhaps look at the interview with Darcus Howe in a different light......

 

Scott, you shouldn't be accusing the police of murder on a public forum when there's no evidence. It's libellous. Don't you know that? You can't just say anything you like. There are laws that apply to the Net too. You could get yourself and this site in serious trouble.

 

For example the IPCC said about Smiley Culture's death. From The Guardian:

 

"The investigation has found no evidence that a criminal offence may have been committed," IPCC commissioner Mike Franklin announced in a statement. "The investigation [also] found there were no individual failings which, for the purposes of the [Police (Conduct) Regulations 2008], amounted to misconduct.

 

So do you know something they don't?

Edited December 13, 201113 yr by Common Sense

Did you manage to completely miss this Chris? :manson: I only posted it in the riots thread for you to completely ignore it last month.

 

He still had a gun and was a wanted criminal so no tears shed from me for his death. MY OPINION of course Scott. ;) Normal law-abiding people don't have guns in their socks. :rolleyes:

Can we get a long overdue apology?

 

Revealed: Mark Duggan was not armed when shot by police

 

Investigators find no forensic evidence he was carrying gun when killed

Vikram Dodd

The Guardian, Saturday 19 November 2011

 

The investigation into the death of Mark Duggan has found no forensic evidence that he was carrying a gun when he was shot dead by police on 4 August, the Guardian has learned.

 

A gun collected by Duggan earlier in the day was recovered 10 to 14 feet away, on the other side of a low fence from his body. He was killed outside the vehicle he was travelling in, after a police marksman fired twice.

 

The new details raise questions about the official version of events. The shooting triggered some of the worst riots in modern British history, which began in Tottenham, north London, in response to the treatment of the Duggan family. The investigation into Duggan's death is being carried out by the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC), but the Guardian has learned new details of the shooting, and a much more complex picture than first revealed is emerging.

 

On the day Duggan was shot, there is overwhelming evidence he had obtained a firearm, and there is video supporting that. But the investigation is considering whether Duggan had a weapon in his possession when he was shot dead by the police.

 

The revelations raise questions for the Metropolitan police about the intelligence they had and its interpretation, the planning of the operation, tactics deployed, and the actions of its firearms officers.

 

The Crown Prosecution Service may have to consider if any officer should face criminal charges.

 

But the revelations also raise questions for the IPCC, whose public statements appeared to give a different impression of the shooting.

 

The IPCC had to correct the initial information it released, which came from the Met but which it adopted, saying Duggan had fired and that a bullet had lodged in a radio worn by a police officer. The IPCC later admitted the bullet was in fact most likely a ricochet from one fired by a police officer.

 

The day he was shot, Duggan hired a people carrier from a taxi firm. Officers from the Met's Operation Trident, which investigates gun crime within the African-Caribbean community, followed it.

 

Their intelligence that Duggan would obtain a firearm proved correct. A box, believed to have contained the weapon at some point, was found inside and at the back of the Toyota Estima people carrier.

 

Duggan was followed from an address in Hackney and one in Leyton, east London. As he entered Tottenham, police decided they would halt his vehicle and, fearing he had a weapon, decided to involve armed officers from their elite firearms unit, C019.

 

The new findings include:

 

• The weapon Duggan obtained was in a shoe box, in a sock, with a small hole cut away for the barrel.

 

• The weapon was a converted BBM "Bruni" self-loading pistol. It contained one bullet.

 

• Neither Duggan's DNA nor fingerprints have yet been recovered from the sock or the weapon. His fingerprints have been found on the shoe box, which was found in the back of the hired vehicle.

 

• Evidence suggests Duggan's weapon was not fired.

 

• Duggan appears to have known police were not just following him, but were going to stop him. At 6.05pm, some nine minutes before police say they shot him dead, he sent a BlackBerry message: "Trident have jammed me," he wrote, adding that people should look out for a maroon people carrier in which he believed officers from Trident were travelling.

 

• Toxicology tests indicate Duggan had some illegal drugs, namely ecstasy, in his blood stream. The effect on his behaviour, if any, is unclear.

 

• The vehicle was moved by police after the shooting, before independent investigators examined the scene.

 

Police following Duggan were from Operation Trident and believed the situation developing was "a crime in action", and were aware a relative of Duggan had been killed recently and that he might seek revenge for that.

 

A rival scenario detailed by a community source is that Duggan was obtaining a firearm after being attacked himself just days before.

 

Recent police shooting cases have shown that even where the person killed had no weapon, or it was some distance away, if officers can show they had a reasonable belief their life or that of others was in danger, they are highly likely to have a lawful defence.

 

Part of the reason the IPCC was set up was to have greater credibility within communities affected by police actions. But after the Duggan shooting, the dead man's relatives were critical of how they had been treated. The IPCC and police blamed each other for a failure to keep the family properly informed.

 

An IPCC spokesperson said: "The ongoing IPCC investigation into the death of Mark Duggan is examining a range of issues. We are providing updates and, where possible, answers to the family of Mr Duggan.

 

"This is a complex investigation that involves gathering information including witness statements, pathology, forensics and ballistics analysis and we have stated to the coroner that it will be completed within four to six months. We are unable to put information in the public domain until appropriate to do so. Ultimately, the evidence from our investigation will, rightly, be tested and challenged in a public forum before an inquest jury. We would urge people not to rush to judgment until they see and hear the evidence themselves."

 

In other high profile incidents involving death after police conduct, the first official version has proved wrong, adding to the damage and suspicion surrounding police actions.

 

Police insiders stress that firearms officers have a highly dangerous job, the risks and realities of which are little understood outside law enforcement circles.

 

In another development, it emerged police are under investigation over the weapon found where Duggan was shot, after it emerged it may have been used a week earlier in an assault by another person. The IPCC said tests suggested the gun may have been carried by another man in an assault, before somehow being transferred to Duggan.

 

The IPCC also announced that two Metropolitan police officers are under investigation over whether the assault was investigated properly. It was reported to police and no arrests were made immediately afterwards.

 

Sarah Green, commissioner of the IPCC, said: "Our investigation will consider whether all investigative lines were promptly identified and acted upon by officers from the Metropolitan police service and to what extent, if any, the conduct of this investigation may have impacted on the supply of the firearm found at the scene of the shooting of Mark Duggan."

 

In a statement the Met said: "Due to concerns about the quality of the investigative response the MPS has voluntarily referred the investigation to the Independent Police Complaints Commission.

 

Utter, utter tragedy. Both the loss of an innocent man's life and the fact that had the police been a lot more careful one of the most painful weeks in this country's history wouldn't have happened.

Scott, you shouldn't be accusing the police of murder on a public forum when there's no evidence. It's libellous. Don't you know that? You can't just say anything you like. There are laws that apply to the Net too. You could get yourself and this site in serious trouble.

 

For example the IPCC said about Smiley Culture's death. From The Guardian:

 

"The investigation has found no evidence that a criminal offence may have been committed," IPCC commissioner Mike Franklin announced in a statement. "The investigation [also] found there were no individual failings which, for the purposes of the [Police (Conduct) Regulations 2008], amounted to misconduct.

 

So do you know something they don't?

 

I'm not accusing any one particular individual of murder, I'm accusing the Metropolitan Police of institutionalized murder, manslaughter and cover up, I'd frankly like them to take me to court and disprove it... The Metropolitan Police engenders a certain attitude which attracts a certain person with a certain type of mentality into their ranks.. They've been proven guilty of Institutionalized Racism, I'm just taking it one step further... Over 1500 deaths in Police Custody since the 1970s, countless examples of assault and battery over the years... Yeah, I'd LOVE them to press a Civil Suit, the burden of proof is on them to prove that they're not guilty of murder or manslaughter and frankly I doubt they can prove it because I would bring up each and ever one of these cases of "mysterious death" in police custody individually, and they'd have to answer the charge... The Met has been found by Coroner's Courts to have caused wrongful death in more than one case, including that of Iain Tomlinson.. I'm pretty sure I have a strong case and the Met itself absolutely has a case to answer... Mark Duggan is just another one in a very LONG line of working class people - whether black or white, immigrant or indigenous - that they've done in.

I am not in the least bit surprised by this at all. I never believed the police version from the start and the facts and details from the final inquest into this will be forgotten or hushed up.

I wonder whether the officers involved will face any repurcussions, the riots did not need to happen if they had been honest from the start but were obviously trying to cover up what

really happened.That is why they did not give Marks family any accurate information.