Milly, I have to agree with you regarding Robbie's relationship with the media. Generally his reviews are consistently better than TT's and Gary's. Vocally Rob's voice is more powerful than Gary's but he is frequently out of tune; this is never pointed out by journalists and his performance skills carry him a long way. I also think if Gary had put out an album of essentially covers the papers would have pounced on this. A review of lll in the Telegraph by their music journalist , Neil McCormick, I think his name is, is indicative of the presses relationship with TT/Gary as every opportunity was taken to mention Rob. It was littered with references to Rob's influence on Progress and the far superior quality of it. The review also pitted lll against Rob's new album commenting on the quality of Rob's output- which I can't comment on as I've not listened to it. There is unquestionably a core group of journalists who appear to get some kind of kick out of pulling Gary down. Maybe it's to do with his affiliation with the Tories, although as far as I can tell, this amounts to Gary backing a music initiative of Cameron's. Whatever the reason Gary in particular is fair game and I think he knows it. I have to say that given the amount of abuse and stick he receives, whatever his failings are, Gary remains dignified with no sense of bitterness - and for that reason alone he deserves some credit.

He sounds more powerful because he screams a lot :P Range wise, he's quite average. He had a 3 octaves vocal range at his best - but even so, his lack of vocal control ruins everything. Gary has a 4 octaves vocal range and, as we know, he's a singing machine :)

Gary is a far better singer than Robbie, that said, Robbie is a better entertainer. Take That can entertain on stage as group. The press do favour Robbie and always will, that said, Take That were lucky with the press for quite some time, Mark was extremely lucky when it was revealed about his 5 year affair, the press did not go to town on him. I would suspect had it been Gary who had the affair the press would have hung dried and quartered him. The press is the press and when you step into the public eye it goes with the territory.

 

I agree with those who have mentioned Robbies declining sales, the press do not make to many nods to this week but will be very happy to do it with Take That. Robbies last few albums struggled for double platinum status when previous albums had reached 7 times platinum, the belief that Take That are the only act suffering declining sales is laughable.

Exactly Pippa, funny how no one mentions Mark's affair but instead lay into Gary...

 

Robbie can't sing live anymore, he ends up just shouting and out of breath. I remember when he did Candy on XF and was panting around and changing the lyrics. When Gary sung it on his tour it sounded much much better.

 

I'm sort of beginning to view These Days as TT's version of Candy...(which I love, for the record)

While not a Robbie fan i do love Candy, its one of his few songs i bought. I went to see Robbie a few years ago with friend,her partner couldnt go so i was awarded the ticket instead, he did put on a good show but his voice is nothing amazing. Credit where it is due, he has carved out an amazing career and will be remembered for years to come and has done enough to be part of the music history books.

 

Take That are in a different league, the group have magic, the delivery and stage presence they have on tour is fantastic, they really do deliver and most importantly they can sing live very well. I think they work extremely hard, they are not afraid to try new sounds, all their albums have remained pop but never repeat the same formula and like Robbie they are now well and truly part of the music history books where they rightly belong.

well, Rudebox flopped with 4.5 million sales worldwide, pretty nice flop. RKTVS sold more than 300,000 copies in the first week and TTC sold 1.3 million though and inspired a tour of 1.5 million people. SBW sold 2 million and covered a tour of 50 dates the next year. This is what I call success. Without bringing TT down only in regard of facts III sells nowhere aside of the UK not even in Ireland and SISYL of Gary was planned to go to Australia, but did not sell there, neither in Europe.

The press had never been good to Robbie, remember 2006 and the entire UFO thing. They are better now with him as he has good material and does not evade taxes for example. He has changed and matured. They realize it. But to compare the success of TT with Robbie (even in Britain) is ridiculous (see above numbers). They were Lucky with Progress and Rob's attraction in Europe. They were not called Robbie and his backing singers in Europe for nothing .

well, Rudebox flopped with 4.5 million sales worldwide, pretty nice flop. RKTVS sold more than 300,000 copies in the first week and TTC sold 1.3 million though and inspired a tour of 1.5 million people. SBW sold 2 million and covered a tour of 50 dates the next year. This is what I call success. Without bringing TT down only in regard of facts III sells nowhere aside of the UK not even in Ireland and SISYL of Gary was planned to go to Australia, but did not sell there, neither in Europe.

The press had never been good to Robbie, remember 2006 and the entire UFO thing. They are better now with him as he has good material and does not evade taxes for example. He has changed and matured. They realize it. But to compare the success of TT with Robbie (even in Britain) is ridiculous (see above numbers). They were Lucky with Progress and Rob's attraction in Europe. They were not called Robbie and his backing singers in Europe for nothing .

1. TT did not EVADE taxes. There's a big difference between avoidance and evasion.

2. Robbie is no cleaner than the rest: http://money.aol.co.uk/2014/07/14/celebrit...ide=aol_1260397

His advantage is being loved by the media, no matter what you say. I've rarely seen vitriolic articles about him.

 

Robbie may have sold well throughout his career, but the truth is that he hasn't produced any hit (aside from Candy, which ironically is co-written by Gary) in longer than a decade. TT and Gary have had good songs, that get airplay, unlike Robbie. For me, his material is just not good enough. SBW was a pretty lame excuse for making more money. If that's what a successful artist does - bad covers -, I'll pass on it.

Gary never released SISYL anywhere apart from UK and Germany and did not do any promo. He appeared on one German show and managed to get SISYL into top 10 based on just that. The German radios played Let Me Go all year long and other European radios picked on it as well. Let Me Go was no1 on one Romanian radio station as well, for quite a few weeks.

Just out of curiosity: when did SBW sell 2 million copies? I know it sold 1 million copies, out of which 700k in UK, just like Gary. That was in the spring, I doubt he sold 1 more million in Europe, when he didn't even sell 1 million in UK.

Nobody is taking away Robbie's achievements, but the same should be applied with regards to TT.

 

I don't know which part of Europe regards Robbie as the leader of TT, but, as far as I know, all people with some common sense and musical knowledge know that Gary fills that part. But there are always the papers, the idiots and the sheep who'd come up with the non-sense that TT is Robbie and his backing singers. That doesn't mean that their opinion has any validity or should be taken into consideration, never mind be brought as an argument into a discussion.

Edited December 18, 201410 yr by milly

I'm not the biggest Robbie fan, I do like some of his older songs, but on many occassions I find him a little too much. But nevertheless I have to be honest and agree with Elisabeth that if you look at Europe, outside the UK, Robbie is much more successful and has a much bigger fanbase than TT. Here in Sweden for instance both the media, and most people, are only interested in TT if Robbie is a part of it. The reviews for the Progress tour was very telling; the real show didn't start until Robbie came on. Also, no way that TT would have sold out stadiums across Europe if Robbie had not been part of the tour.

 

Re III not doing as well as some people expected. I'm sorry to say, but I don't think the album is that great. In my opinion it's not their best album and after These Days I had hoped for more. It's not a bad album, but I do feel that they could have done better. I can't put my finger on what, but something is lacking and I have to agree with one of the reviewers calling the album "unadventurous" and with "bland lyrics".

 

I read some comments on here that Gary should sing most leads because that's how it's always been and that's how it was the first time round. I don't think you could compare TT of today to TT in the old days. Back then Gary was the only one writing music. That's not the case today. I think one reason for TT being so successful when they came back was because it wasn't just Gary and his backing singers/dancers. They were all more involved in the process and it felt like they were more like equals, and I think what came out of that attracted new fans.

 

Milly said in a comment "TT is what it is because of the GB sound". This makes me wonder what you mean by "the GB sound"? Do you mean just the voice of GB or do you also mean the music? Because I think that when you listen to TT of today you can hear so much more than just "the GB sound". For example on The Circus there are lots of Mark influences in the music, and I'm not just talking about the songs he sings lead on.

I've just watched TT on red button and they were absolutely fantastic. The new songs sound brilliant live and the dynamic between the three of them is perfect. Whether you like Take That or not, they are undoubtedly a quality, quality live act. I loved the new take on The Flood ( well done Howard ) and the whole concert was unbelievably good. Yes, Gary was the lead singer (wish we could let this issue lie) but the sound was unmistakably the Take That sound with great harmonies. I bought a tour ticket somewhat hesitantly as I wasn't sure how they would sound live with just the three; but my concerns have been blow away tonight - they were superb !!

I'm not the biggest Robbie fan, I do like some of his older songs, but on many occassions I find him a little too much. But nevertheless I have to be honest and agree with Elisabeth that if you look at Europe, outside the UK, Robbie is much more successful and has a much bigger fanbase than TT. Here in Sweden for instance both the media, and most people, are only interested in TT if Robbie is a part of it. The reviews for the Progress tour was very telling; the real show didn't start until Robbie came on. Also, no way that TT would have sold out stadiums across Europe if Robbie had not been part of the tour.

 

Re III not doing as well as some people expected. I'm sorry to say, but I don't think the album is that great. In my opinion it's not their best album and after These Days I had hoped for more. It's not a bad album, but I do feel that they could have done better. I can't put my finger on what, but something is lacking and I have to agree with one of the reviewers calling the album "unadventurous" and with "bland lyrics".

 

I read some comments on here that Gary should sing most leads because that's how it's always been and that's how it was the first time round. I don't think you could compare TT of today to TT in the old days. Back then Gary was the only one writing music. That's not the case today. I think one reason for TT being so successful when they came back was because it wasn't just Gary and his backing singers/dancers. They were all more involved in the process and it felt like they were more like equals, and I think what came out of that attracted new fans.

 

Milly said in a comment "TT is what it is because of the GB sound". This makes me wonder what you mean by "the GB sound"? Do you mean just the voice of GB or do you also mean the music? Because I think that when you listen to TT of today you can hear so much more than just "the GB sound". For example on The Circus there are lots of Mark influences in the music, and I'm not just talking about the songs he sings lead on.

 

For me, what the media says and what people think are 2 different things, but let's let that rest. There's always the facts and what people think about the facts. While people's opinions may be important, they can't change facts. And the fact is that Robbie has never been an integral part of TT.

 

By the "GB sound", yes I meant Gary's voice and, to some extent, his style of music as well. While Mark's influence may have grown over time, most TT fans would not buy an album full of indie songs. As I've already pointed out, Gary has to be given more songs than the others also for practical reasons: the live performances. Without meaning to be disrespectful or put anyone down, how many fans would buy tickets to a concert where Mark is the main performer and Gary just a backing singer? The answer is in Mark's solo tour.

 

I've just watched TT on red button and they were absolutely fantastic. The new songs sound brilliant live and the dynamic between the three of them is perfect. Whether you like Take That or not, they are undoubtedly a quality, quality live act. I loved the new take on The Flood ( well done Howard ) and the whole concert was unbelievably good. Yes, Gary was the lead singer (wish we could let this issue lie) but the sound was unmistakably the Take That sound with great harmonies. I bought a tour ticket somewhat hesitantly as I wasn't sure how they would sound live with just the three; but my concerns have been blow away tonight - they were superb !!

 

I've listened to it on the radio, because I couldn't watch it and it was brilliant. The new songs especially sounded amazing, in particular Get Ready for It and Flaws.

The only downside for me was Flood. I know most people loved it, but I found it really strange, but that's just me.

 

well you cannot argue with popularity in hindsight of Rob 77 mill albums solo,25 with TT and 10 million concert visitors, speak for itself and if you day that the press was not vitriolic to rob you have not been along long. until shortly they have always preferred TT in the UK. Their last international hit was The Flood written by Robbie already before he rejoined them. They are great live, but don't transfer outside the UK, despite promo in Germany and NL they do not chart and looking at the sales the UK non thatters are not keen on this album either

well you cannot argue with popularity in hindsight of Rob 77 mill albums solo,25 with TT and 10 million concert visitors, speak for itself and if you day that the press was not vitriolic to rob you have not been along long. until shortly they have always preferred TT in the UK. Their last international hit was The Flood written by Robbie already before he rejoined them. They are great live, but don't transfer outside the UK, despite promo in Germany and NL they do not chart and looking at the sales the UK non thatters are not keen on this album either

 

Nobody has disputed Robbbie's popularity. That doesn't mean that TT are some unknown act, without any European fanbase. The simple fact that I'm on this forum proves that.

 

Robbie did not write The Flood before he rejoined TT, where did you get that from? Robbie's contribution to Progress consists of lyrics and melodies. Gary came up with all the backing tracks; he even explained in detail how he made all the sections for The Flood.

 

If the papers haven't stated that Robbie is worse than a criminal or the scum of earth - literally -, like they did with Gary, I'd say he didn't have it that bad. Besides, unlike Gary, Robbie was responsible for those negative articles through his own actions, while Gary seems to irritate the media without any reason. Most of the times, he doesn't even say or do anything.

 

Just out of curiosity: when did SBW sell 2 million copies? I know it sold 1 million copies, out of which 700k in UK, just like Gary. That was in the spring, I doubt he sold 1 more million in Europe, when he didn't even sell 1 million in UK.

Nobody is taking away Robbie's achievements, but the same should be applied with regards to TT.

SBW sell 2 million copies, that's correctly.

720k in UK and ~1.3k abroad

Edited December 18, 201410 yr by Better Man

Gary was indeed responsible for the music for Progress and he and Robbie collaborated on The Flood. As far as I am aware Robbie doesn't write music but lyrics only. He is unquestionably far more popular than Take That around the world, but then again he never went away from the music scene for 10 years and promotes extensively, not just the UK. Popularity itself does not equate to quality, but music is, and always will be subjective. In my eyes Rob was very , very lucky that Angels came along when it did. His album wasn't doing particularly well and his career hadn't really taken off. He was fortunate that he was teamed with Guy Chambers on his first couple of albums as Chambers was instrumental in developing Rob's sound in the early days. I still maintain that Gary has battled against negative press in a way that Rob never has and he remains dignified in spite of it ; something I believe Rob could never do. As for the present, I wasn't that keen on Flaws as a track but my goodness it sounds wonderful live. In fact all of the newer tracks were much stronger live than I expected. Visually they looked great and very relaxed together. Those of us who are fans will perhaps have to accepted that TT's reign on the UK charts may have come to an end, but take some kind of solace in the fact that they are still producing music and still look and sound fantastic live. There are few pop acts with such enduring popularity and it does bear testament to their talent as songwriters and performers.

SBW sell 2 million copies, that's correctly.

720k in UK and ~1.3k abroad

 

Certifications show he sold 1.5 million copies worldwide, out of which 710k in UK.

 

Gary was indeed responsible for the music for Progress and he and Robbie collaborated on The Flood. As far as I am aware Robbie doesn't write music but lyrics only. He is unquestionably far more popular than Take That around the world, but then again he never went away from the music scene for 10 years and promotes extensively, not just the UK. Popularity itself does not equate to quality, but music is, and always will be subjective. In my eyes Rob was very , very lucky that Angels came along when it did. His album wasn't doing particularly well and his career hadn't really taken off. He was fortunate that he was teamed with Guy Chambers on his first couple of albums as Chambers was instrumental in developing Rob's sound in the early days. I still maintain that Gary has battled against negative press in a way that Rob never has and he remains dignified in spite of it ; something I believe Rob could never do. As for the present, I wasn't that keen on Flaws as a track but my goodness it sounds wonderful live. In fact all of the newer tracks were much stronger live than I expected. Visually they looked great and very relaxed together. Those of us who are fans will perhaps have to accepted that TT's reign on the UK charts may have come to an end, but take some kind of solace in the fact that they are still producing music and still look and sound fantastic live. There are few pop acts with such enduring popularity and it does bear testament to their talent as songwriters and performers.

 

 

Extremely well said. I firmly believe Robbie would have never handled the negative press that Gary received going back all those years. The press were extremely brutal to Gary at that time and Robbie Williams fueled so much of it. At that time, an element of bullying really stood out in my mind from Robbie, he had the upper hand and took every single opportunity to humiliate Gary where possible and that is not a trait that sits well with me, its an ugly trait that probably shows the other side to Robbie Williams. Gary could possibly be the same behind the public eye but we have yet to see it. Like now Gary took all that very well and did not respond with replies that im sure Robbie was pushing for at the time. From what i can remember from that era one of the few things Gary did say was "I have never sung a Robbie Williams song, but he can never say he did not sing a Gary Barlow song".

As far as I'm concerned, Robbie can stay with all his sales and success, I'll take Gary with all his Flaws :P

Fans of both are lucky, both acts have remained very successful and both continue to release music, enough to keep all happy. The fans of Take That and Robbie are extremely lucky. If we look at all the bands before and after them, Take That have stood the test of time, Robbies solo career likewise, Gary has built up decent solo success and although not commercially as successful, fans of Mark are still getting solo music from him.

 

When we look at bands like the Spice Girls, Backstreet Boys and Westlife fans dont get to enjoy what we so thankfully get which is great quality music and wonderful tours and commercial success by the bag load.

Edited December 19, 201410 yr by pippa

The album is back up to number 10 here in Ireland this week.They are on the late late show here tonight so I would hope they achieve a new peak next week on the back of that.I know it won't happen with three but their appearances on the show for the circus and beautiful world eras was what got them to number 1 as neither had reached number 1 beforehand.

Certifications show he sold 1.5 million copies worldwide, out of which 710k in UK.

According to IFPI report SBW sold 1.55M in 2013.

+ additional 450k with a big Tour in 2014.

 

Sorry for offtop

 

Fans of both are lucky, both acts have remained very successful and both continue to release music, enough to keep all happy. The fans of Take That and Robbie are extremely luck

Great words!!

Edited December 19, 201410 yr by Better Man