I agree the promotion is never quiet right, especially with singles which is frustrating. That said, i do agree with Kath that singles probably are not important to them but i do feel album sales are important as is achieving a number 1 album, achieving 8 number 1 albums is a great achievement and i would assume they are targeting to increase that figure to 10. The tours however are hugely important to them, they put so much in to their tours and there is massive revenue from it.

 

What i am finding strange with the new album is the lead single is doing very well as have all their lead singles but the album isnt hugely benefiting of the back of it, sales are down hugely on previous albums but there is a lot of promotion to come for this album and Take That have managed to sell albums outside the Christmas market and therefore have a chance to build up sales.

 

This weeks sales included the album will be over 200,000 and if things go in the right direction it will be coming near platinum for Christmas week. Worst outcome i would hate it to sell anything under double platinum. I am starting to wonder will Garys Since I Saw You Last actually end up with higher sales for three??

I would lie if I said I wasn't disappointed with the sales; I wish they were better at this point. But I think it's useless to compare the sales of III to those of Progress or of Circus. For Progress, we had 2 fanbases combined - let's be fair, Robbie himself doesn't sell 145k in a week all on his own, never mind 500k. Plus, we had Look Back Don't Stare, which was more promo than all the tv appearances combined. The Circus happened in 2008, that's 6 years ago, the sales climate has changed a lot and people prefer streaming nowadays - an option limited for the moment for TT because of their contract with Google Play.

The main problem for me is the promotion or lack of it, to be more precise. Radio interviews don't help too much; not even their loyal fans know about them. Their 2 main appearances have been on X factor and Graham Norton show. A casual appearance in Netherlands is hardly promotion, in my opinion. Last year, Gary was everywhere: CIN, Royal Variety, Text Santa, Allan Carr, Jonathan Ross, One Show, Late Late Show, the BBC Radio 2 Day, the Big Ben Bash, the Meerkats, the Afghanistan documentary, the James Corden documentary, there were huge banners all across London promoting SISYL. When you compare that promotion or the one of Ed Sheeran, Olly Murs to Take That's this year, you'll notice that the discrepancy is obvious. Maybe the boys want to lay low for a while and don't want to push the promo too much, but, unfortunately, this has consequences on the album sales.

As for them not charting too high in other countries, I'm not too concerned about it. Like someone said, all I care about are the UK chartings. The day someone will pay attention to my country's chart, the apocalypse is near :P I, myself, have bought the album from Amazon, but I've not downloaded it from iTunes Romania because I don't see the point. If I could download from iTunes UK, I'd do it. On the contrary, I'd pay in a hearbeat the price of a ticket for a TT gig in my country, as would many other people. With the right sort of promotion, III could do well in Germany, the 2nd important music market in Europe.

I agree that they should start promoting other songs from the album as well. They did the acoustic version of Flaws, but how many people heard it? It's a shame really, because, for me, III is the best TT album ever, followed closely by Beautiful World. If people gave it a chance, they would not be disappointed.

Very well said.

Milly, I agree. Despite the poor reviews I absolutely love lll and for me it's considerably better than Progress and in my view better than Circus. I'm interested to see what songs they've included for the Radio 2 show, my guess is the older songs still take precedence. It would have been really helpful to have had another 'An Audience With' type of show which would have given them scope to include other songs from the album. I saw their performance at the BBC Music Awards and as ever it was strong but I wish they'd stop dancing and wearing those awful suits as it really dates them. In comparison their performance on Graham Norton was far more natural and organic and all the better for it.

I loved the X Factor performance the most as i thought it was staged extremely well. I have to agree with you guys that 3 is better than progress and its a slow burner album, these days was not instant, it grew and i am finding the songs on the album the same. Credit to the boys, the 4 studio albums since their return are all very different, they are not churning out the same ole same ole on each single or album.

 

Wonderful to see so many new people joining in on the debates and opinions here. :)

Edited December 12, 201410 yr by pippa

The tax issue has put a lot of people off, such as Kath. I believe that they handled this extremely badly and are now paying the price, as I said they would in the thread about the tax evasion. They are getting what they deserve. It did not have to be this way if they dealt with the issue promptly and fully. Instead, Gary Barlow patronized many fans by saying they don't care.

 

Another factor is to do with Gary Barlow. With all the promotion and TV specials for his album and also Sing, he has become too much of an establishment figure. Being a Tory boy and a Royal sycophant puts him back into a kind of Cliff Richard category of uncool. Take That are no longer cool again. Again, it is embarrassing for a lot of former fans to admit they like Take That, and most people know that Take That is now Gary Barlow and two backing singers.

 

If the lead singer on the first single had been Mark Owen or Howard, I think it could have been different. They should have made a shift to show that all three were equal and had the same amount to contribute, but Gary Barlow's ego seems to have got in the way. I say this, by the way, as a huge Barlow fan. So, it is not surprising that total sales will be in a similar range to Gary Barlow's album. While their single did scrape into number one in the UK, it isn't anywhere near the same quality as some of their other lead singles. That said, I expect their second single to do reasonably well off the back of Kingsmen: The Secret Service. Overall, the material in this album is weak compared to their past efforts. I don't think they put their hearts into it, and I expect this may be their last studio album, or at least the last album for a long time.

 

I will add that I don't buy the whole argument about album sales being low anyway. This album is falling down the charts quicker than their other other albums. They have a core support, but have lost a lot of their wider appeal. The only way they could have overcome that and all the negative was to have a killer single. It just did not happen.

Edited December 12, 201410 yr by Bond Bug

Milly, I agree. Despite the poor reviews I absolutely love lll and for me it's considerably better than Progress and in my view better than Circus. I'm interested to see what songs they've included for the Radio 2 show, my guess is the older songs still take precedence. It would have been really helpful to have had another 'An Audience With' type of show which would have given them scope to include other songs from the album. I saw their performance at the BBC Music Awards and as ever it was strong but I wish they'd stop dancing and wearing those awful suits as it really dates them. In comparison their performance on Graham Norton was far more natural and organic and all the better for it.

I loved their Graham Norton performance, especially because of the slightly more uptempo arrangement of the song. You're right that it looked more natural. But to be honest, I melted completely when I saw Gary dressed in white last night :P He was cuteness overload. And the dancing amuses me constantly. It was miles better than all the other acts who seemed glued to the spot. Even if I knew that the boys were taking the mickey with those moves, I still liked it.

 

As for the reviews, don't get me started on the papers. The day they'll write something good about anything Gary is connected to, the hell will freeze over :) Besides, they were pissed that the boys didn't send the album for reviewing before the release date. Neil McCormick at The Telegraph seems to be the journalist on duty when it comes to writing reviews about Gary or TT. And he never misses an opportunity of asserting his undying love for Robbie, in contrast to his loathing for Gary.

The tax issue has put a lot of people off, such as Kath. I believe that they handled this extremely badly and are now paying the price, as I said they would in the thread about the tax evasion. They are getting what they deserve. It did not have to be this way if they dealt with the issue promptly and fully. Instead, Gary Barlow patronized many fans by saying they don't care.

 

I'd started to go off Take That long before the tax issue though Bond Bug. In fact - long before the Tory-toadying. It was the fact that Gary Barlow became omni-present - and you couldn't escape him. Also - despite the protestations of them all writing - I always get the impression that Gary still KNOWS or believes that people believe that it is HIM doing all the writing - and he's doing the others a favour by gracing them with his 'talents'. There is even another thread here that says Barlow has written the Kingsman thing - no mention of the others at all! It was the Kilimanjaro thing that probably was the turning point for me - you knew his charity work was all just a show for his own ends (I bloody well gave £20 to that one too!!! - silly me! :lol: ) From that day on I've vowed never to give money to a celebrity headed charity thing - instead give it directly to the people on the street.

 

Take That will always be successful due to their solid fan-base who will follow them (and now Barlow's new-found solo success adds more to it) and buy what they put out no matter. Barlow was right too when he said that their fans don't care about the tax thing - they can't even see a veiled insult when it hits them in the face.

Edited December 12, 201410 yr by Kath

I'd started to go off Take That long before the tax issue though Bond Bug. In fact - long before the Tory-toadying. It was the fact that Gary Barlow became omni-present - and you couldn't escape him. Also - despite the protestations of them all writing - I always get the impression that Gary still KNOWS or believes that people believe that it is HIM doing all the writing - and he's doing the others a favour by gracing them with his 'talents'. There is even another thread here that says Barlow has written the Kingsman thing - no mention of the others at all! It was the Kilimanjaro thing that probably was the turning point for me - you knew his charity work was all just a show for his own ends (I bloody well gave £20 to that one too!!! - silly me! :lol: ) From that day on I've vowed never to give money to a celebrity headed charity thing - instead give it directly to the people on the street.

 

Take That will always be successful due to their solid fan-base who will follow them (and now Barlow's new-found solo success adds more to it) and buy what they put out no matter. Barlow was right too when he said that their fans don't care about the tax thing - they can't even see a veiled insult when it hits them in the face.

 

Yes, I agree Gary Barlow is still being greedy about his role in the band and he has been overexposed in an uncool way. However, I will always follow his career, hoping he creates some more great songs like Rule The World or Forever Love. That said, I think they will see diminishing returns from here, unless they somehow reinvent themselves. Gary Barlow will not sell as much on his next solo album. Ditto if Take That continue. They may not get to number one.

 

I see the future like this - The next album will be a greatest hits album (I wouldn't rule out Robbie joining them on a new greatest hit promotional song, as it takes minimal commitment) and after that they will disband without officially saying so - they will say they are taking a break. Gary Barlow and Robbie Williams will see falling sales and popularity in their next releases. Gary Barlow will do a Ronan Keating and release a 30 years of hits solo album, using a lot of Take That material, plus solo material. However, as they become increasingly less relevant, at some point, maybe in a decade from now, they will come together for another Take That reunion.

Edited December 12, 201410 yr by Bond Bug

There is absolutely no evidence of Gary being greedy or of him taking pride in people considering him the main writer for the band. But then again, as a fan, I'm so stupid I wouldn't see a veiled insult if it hit me in the face.

In Belgian charts again low chartings and probably minimal sales. Here are the Flanders and Wallonia region album chartings. No certs known

 

Belgium Flanders:

 

Nobody Else: 1 (2 weeks) 1995 19 weeks

Greatest Hits: 2 1996 23 weeks

Take That & Party: 6 1992

Everything Changes: 6 1993

Progress: 36 2010 8 weeks

Beautiful World: 62 2006 6 weeks

Never Forget: The Ultimate Collection: 76 2005 5 weeks

III: 84 2014

The Circus: 94 2008 1 week

 

Belgium Wallonia

 

Nobody Else: 2 1995 21 weeks

Greatest Hits: 4 1996 12 weeks

Everything Changes: 7 1993

Progress: 32 2010 10 weeks

III: 128 2014

Edited December 12, 201410 yr by nirvanamusic

Obviously I agree with all what Kath and Bong Bug wrote. In non Uk countries TT had been not noticed aside of Patience after their return and when Progress charted well and you read the tour reviews it was Robbie with his backing singers.

Gary Barlow did not leave an impression as solo artist with his last work either while Robbie sold 550,000 of his last record only in Germany and he did sell even more than 145,000 a week with RKRVS, and SBWays.

Now TT is Gary and Mark and Howard are his dancers. He is clearly the focus and he loves it, even n the pictures. For me Gary was and is the downfall of TT. He is obviously very talented. But he is also very arrogant and up himself in a totally different way than Robbie.

And while Robbie fans are moaning about every single it the hard core THatters and GB army may be absolute intelligent in real life but lemmings when it comes to their idols in a way maybe 1D fans are and they are youngsters.

Robbie is trying out a lot of new ventures and so I guess that he will always hold a certain significance.

Gary will decline because his next album doesn't have the x-factor judge prominence anymore. But he is writing musicals and will be successful there. It fits him. TT will take a break afer a Greatest Hits and a new tour to cash in.

That is what I am thinking.

It was by the way poor that more than half of Gary's tour sogs were TT songs.

Obviously I agree with all what Kath and Bong Bug wrote. In non Uk countries TT had been not noticed aside of Patience after their return and when Progress charted well and you read the tour reviews it was Robbie with his backing singers.

Gary Barlow did not leave an impression as solo artist with his last work either while Robbie sold 550,000 of his last record only in Germany and he did sell even more than 145,000 a week with RKRVS, and SBWays.

Now TT is Gary and Mark and Howard are his dancers. He is clearly the focus and he loves it, even n the pictures. For me Gary was and is the downfall of TT. He is obviously very talented. But he is also very arrogant and up himself in a totally different way than Robbie.

And while Robbie fans are moaning about every single it the hard core THatters and GB army may be absolute intelligent in real life but lemmings when it comes to their idols in a way maybe 1D fans are and they are youngsters.

Robbie is trying out a lot of new ventures and so I guess that he will always hold a certain significance.

Gary will decline because his next album doesn't have the x-factor judge prominence anymore. But he is writing musicals and will be successful there. It fits him. TT will take a break afer a Greatest Hits and a new tour to cash in.

That is what I am thinking.

It was by the way poor that more than half of Gary's tour sogs were TT songs.

Actually, in order for a song to be a TT song, it would have to be credited to all members. Only a few songs on Gary's tour are truly TT songs, the rest of them were 100% Gary Barlow songs.And if Robbie can cash in touring with swing covers, I'm sure Gary can sing the songs he's written, just like Mark has, but I don't see anyone making a fuss about that.

Germany does seem to have a strange passion for Robbie, but I can assure you that many of the other European countries do not even consider him a member of TT. Gary was and always will be for everyone the leader of the band. What the papers print and what people think are two different things.

You keep saying Gary is arrogant and full of himself, yet, aside from your own impressions, there's absolutely no evidence to suggest this. On the contrary, there are so many people saying how thoughtful he is. Tulisa has said, during a recent interview, how Gary sent her a lovely email after seeing her documentary, Marcus has said a few days ago that Gary was the one stepping in for him during XF when he was ill and convincing the producers to give him a day off, Louis has publicly thanked him for the support during his trial and for testifying on his behalf and so on. These are little details that count and speak about a person's character. I don't want to put anyone down, because I'm a TT fan, but, if we were to be honest, there's a lot more evidence in the other members' private lives to suggest that they're not as sweet as people make them out to be than in Gary's. But, for some reason, no matter what he does or doesn't do, he's always the easy target in the band.

I, for one, have enjoyed his last solo album and for me it's the best out of all his albums, solo or with Take That. Let Me Go alone has left more of an impression on people than Robbie's last albums that failed to produce any hit. Robbie's last single barely made the top 10 and was quickly out of top 100. Gary's dvd is even now selling very well, months after his tour ended and a year after he quit XF. Even Since I Saw You Last is still in top 400 on Amazon, which may not be much, but it's enough to suggest that he's not a season artist like Robbie, who only sold during Christmas period and Mother's Day.

We don't know what the future holds for the band or its members, all that counts is the present and, at the moment, Gary has a loyal fanbase thanks to his music and personality.

Edited December 13, 201410 yr by milly

Look, I'm certainly not blind to Gary's faults but to call him arrogant is grossly unfair. There is no evidence to suggest any such thing. On stage he doesn't attempt to hog the stage, he has never stated how great he is and to my knowledge he hasn't boasted that he's written all of the songs since their return. We're not privy to decisions about who should be lead singer on the singles or album tracks so we can't say that Gary demands first billing. Whilst Mark and Howard have their own fan base, love Howard myself, if you asked the general public I have no doubt an overwhelming majority would state that Gary has the best voice. In which case why would they sideline their strongest singer, it makes no sense. I think the balance is right on the album, perhaps Howard should have had one more song but generally it works well.

 

The more I think about it the more I believe that the tax avoidance is a defining issue . Gary displayed some degree of arrogance in assuming their fan base was so strong that it wouldn't impact on sales - which has proved to be anything but. I don't think that TT have actually produced a world class song since Rule the World - they've produced good quality work but nothing outstanding. What they desperately need is another Patience or RTW to appeal more to the general public in the UK.

Gary displayed some degree of arrogance in assuming their fan base was so strong that it wouldn't impact on sales - which has proved to be anything but.

That was an invention of The Sun, just like many of the other stories published about him. I'm almost positive Gary never said such thing. I can't even see him talking about the issue, never mind saying such a thing. I tend to believe more those articles saying he had a depression after the whole scandal, which is why he left twitter for so many months. It was only thanks to Elton again that he recovered. He knows that the tax scandal has influenced some of the fans.

In rest, I agree with you :)

Look, I'm certainly not blind to Gary's faults but to call him arrogant is grossly unfair. There is no evidence to suggest any such thing. On stage he doesn't attempt to hog the stage, he has never stated how great he is and to my knowledge he hasn't boasted that he's written all of the songs since their return. We're not privy to decisions about who should be lead singer on the singles or album tracks so we can't say that Gary demands first billing. Whilst Mark and Howard have their own fan base, love Howard myself, if you asked the general public I have no doubt an overwhelming majority would state that Gary has the best voice. In which case why would they sideline their strongest singer, it makes no sense. I think the balance is right on the album, perhaps Howard should have had one more song but generally it works well.

 

The more I think about it the more I believe that the tax avoidance is a defining issue . Gary displayed some degree of arrogance in assuming their fan base was so strong that it wouldn't impact on sales - which has proved to be anything but. I don't think that TT have actually produced a world class song since Rule the World - they've produced good quality work but nothing outstanding. What they desperately need is another Patience or RTW to appeal more to the general public in the UK.

 

If you don't count singing most the songs, then he doesn't hog the stage. But it is really the Gary Barlow show.

 

I remember him saying he wrote Babe especially for Mark and took into account Mark's limited vocal range. That was very disingenuous. And let's not forget why Robbie Williams left - because he was an extremely talented and ambitious performer who was being held back by Gary Barlow hogging the lead vocals.

Edited December 13, 201410 yr by Bond Bug

The point I'm trying to make (perhaps not very clearly) is that if Gary is considered the strongest singer ( which many people do) then naturally he would take the lead vocal in more songs. It doesn't mean he's hogging the limelight or that it's the Gary Barlow show. It's based on who is the most vocally talented and most suited to the song. Mark is an interesting character. He's a talented song writer and performer but I personally find his voice difficult to listen to unless it's the right song. His vocals for Shine are spot on and better than Gary's but I still maintain that Mark is vocally limited and needs the right kind of song otherwise his voice can sound quite harsh. Equally, Howards vocals on Never Forget are great and Gary' rendition of the song is nowhere as strong. We have no evidence that this time around Gary insists on taking lead vocal - it could simply be that the strongest singer has the greater input. If you remember Progress was more Mark and Robbie influenced and Gary took far more of a back seat - this doesn't suggest someone hell bent on controlling all aspects of the group. As for Robbie, I firmly believe he would have left Take That even if he'd been given equal footing vocally - he isn't, and never has been a team player, and if anyone hogs the limelight then it's undoubtedly Robbie.

Gary might have been a bit patronising but at least he allowed all of them bar Jason who the old manager probably didn't want singing a lead a #1 UK single each. Did Boyzone, N Sync, Backstreet Boys, Westlife, East 17 etc write and then give each member a moment in the spotlight other than the usual two in a band trading verses single after single? I agree it's obvious that Robbie would have gone solo he mentioned as much from very early interviews as jest which turned to seriousness. His story from Take That propelled him and gave him the fire and drive, even hate for Gary/Nigel to go on to bigger things.

 

I agree Mark/Howard were suited to their #1 singles and Robbie to Could it be magic and Everything Changes. Mark suits The Day after Tomorrow also from Nobody Else. When Mark over reaches vocally I agree it is awful though I like Do It All For Love and think that song particular suits him. Gary is definitely seen as the lead singer and I know older fans who only like the Gary led tracks. On the documentary Gary had no songs on Progress this was realised and he took vocals for Eight Letters, the Robbie heaviness of Progress I believe was Gary rectifying the mistakes of the 90's but Gary wrote Take That hits. Robbie wanted hip hop and grunge/Britpop tracks for Take That and Nobody else has him rap a little to accommodate this but as a whole TT sound it would never have worked. The lyrics Robbie showed Gary at the time were more in line with Nirvana Gary said.

 

After tonight and X Factor I think Rule the World could overtake Back For Good and become their biggest seller in the UK another milestone for the comeback era.

Edited December 13, 201410 yr by nirvanamusic

Gary wasn't being patronizing at all. At the time, he wasn't used to writing for anyone else. He was used to writing songs for himself and his vocal range. He was merely speaking the truth. Mark had a very limited vocal range - he doesn't even reach 2 octaves-, he hadn't yet had vocal coaching or any kind of music lessons, so it was indeed a challenge for Gary to write a song that suited him and still sounded good.

Besides, I don't understand why people keep bringing the past into discussion every single time. Gary was just as young as the others; he had his own ambitions and he shouldn't be blamed for that. A lot of things have happened since then that put life into perspective for him.

As for him hogging the limelight, as people have pointed out, if he really wanted to do that, he wouldn't have taken a back seat on Progress, despite him being the main responsible for most of the songs on the album. Gary is the best singer in the band by a mile - he is a good singer on his own, period - and he's the one with the largest fanbase. It's enough to follow the solo careers of the TT member to realize whom people want to listen to. It would be very disrespectful to ignore the preferences of the fans. III has got the right balance - there's something in there for each fanbase.

I can understand that the most talented one has more prominence, but we are down to three. That changes things. The title if the new album is III. They chose III rather than 3 deliberately. The point is that there are now three and the three of them form the shape of III on the cover. As III, it shouldn't be a matter of who is a stronger, but of finding a way in which they all shine. That is the issue I have with this album, especially following on from Gary Barlow's solo album. It is a question of marketing-how they are perceived. If they are perceived as Gary Barlow and two backing singers, then it is really a follow-up to his solo album using the Take That brand. I don't think that is a good way to go forward, especially when they have had negative publicity over the tax issue. To some extent, they needed to reinvent themselves and make a strong statement to come back. The relative lack of success of this album is nothing to do with falling album sales, it is to do with a falling perception of the group. They needed to come back stronger and be cool again. It didn't happen. They got their number one album and single in the UK, but I would not expect the album to be outside the top 5 by the next week. They have lot a lot of their broad appeal. Who do I blame? Gary Barlow.