Let's just start with the first lie and leave it at that. The writer states that the £350m figure is after the rebate. It isn't.

 

At least that should prove I didn't write it, since I know better than to say that here.

At least that should prove I didn't write it, since I know better than to say that here.

It could be a bluff :D

Not referendum related, but definitely EU related...

 

http://www.politico.eu/article/mep-expense...from-media/amp/

 

LUXEMBOURG — If EU lawmakers were forced to declare how they spend their monthly expenses, they would be criticized so much that they could struggle to do their job, a lawyer representing the European Parliament said Thursday.

 

She was speaking during a three-hour public hearing at the European Court of Justice on parliamentary expenses. A group of journalists brought a case to court after the Parliament refused to give them access to information on how MEPs spend public money. Last year, around €450 million was spent on MEPs’ salaries, travel expenses and office costs.

 

[article continues]

in other words, a bit like the UK MP's expenses scandal and the current US government members spending hundreds of millions of taxpayers cash on private flights for jollies, or T. May's jollies for the entire cabinet on a trip to Florence, Italy to make a speech that should have been made in Parliament for free.

 

What a shock!

in other words, a bit like the UK MP's expenses scandal and the current US government members spending hundreds of millions of taxpayers cash on private flights for jollies, or T. May's jollies for the entire cabinet on a trip to Florence, Italy to make a speech that should have been made in Parliament for free.

 

What a shock!

 

So you agree that corruption should be eliminated if at all possible?

So you agree that corruption should be eliminated if at all possible?

 

Of course, anywhere, anyone, anytime for anything in life not just politics, and including EU representatives who should be posting their expenses publicly.

 

Though there is a difference between genuine expenses and those that take the piss, a little naming and shaming is always good for a discussion.

Of course, anywhere, anyone, anytime for anything in life not just politics, and including EU representatives who should be posting their expenses publicly.

 

Though there is a difference between genuine expenses and those that take the piss, a little naming and shaming is always good for a discussion.

 

Even if we cannot stop corruption, we can reduce the sources of it that affect us, which is where Brexit comes in... ;)

Even if we cannot stop corruption, we can reduce the sources of it that affect us, which is where Brexit comes in... ;)

Did you want your local authority to leave the UK at the time of the MPs expenses farrago?

Did you want your local authority to leave the UK at the time of the MPs expenses farrago?

 

That was pocket money compared to some of the f-ups our local council have made! :(

Even if we cannot stop corruption, we can reduce the sources of it that affect us, which is where Brexit comes in... ;)

 

using your logic (which is just more anti-EU rhetoric not actual logic) then we should all campaign to leave our local authority and have referendum's for every city and county in the country until we get down to street level - and there will STILL be corruption by those in charge. At which point chaos ensues and law and order breaks down and everyone can do anything to anyone that they want.

 

People who crave power will go for it wherever they can find it, it's in their nature. It's down to the rest of us to make sure they are kept in check by using our votes, not to make sure that we give up democracy by havinbg a strop about democratic institutions that produce largely reasonable (but flawed) legislation that benefits most people. As opposed to legislation that beenfits just rich and powerful people.

 

(PS don't bother with the usual response "you are misunderstanding/putting words in my mouth" because I will just respond with "every statement you make is twisted to make a dig at the EU specifically even when it applies to every politician in the world and it is therefore a pointless statement")

using your logic (which is just more anti-EU rhetoric not actual logic) then we should all campaign to leave our local authority and have referendum's for every city and county in the country until we get down to street level - and there will STILL be corruption by those in charge. At which point chaos ensues and law and order breaks down and everyone can do anything to anyone that they want.

 

People who crave power will go for it wherever they can find it, it's in their nature. It's down to the rest of us to make sure they are kept in check by using our votes, not to make sure that we give up democracy by havinbg a strop about democratic institutions that produce largely reasonable (but flawed) legislation that benefits most people. As opposed to legislation that beenfits just rich and powerful people.

 

(PS don't bother with the usual response "you are misunderstanding/putting words in my mouth" because I will just respond with "every statement you make is twisted to make a dig at the EU specifically even when it applies to every politician in the world and it is therefore a pointless statement")

 

Why stop there - just have the *entire* conversation on your own. :teresa:

Why stop there - just have the *entire* conversation on your own. :teresa:

At least it would make sense :P

At least it would make sense :P

:lol:

Even one of the main pro-Remainers seems to accept the inevitable...

 

****************************

 

No way now to stop Brexit, Tory grandee Ken Clarke says.

 

https://www.eveningtelegraph.co.uk/2017/10/...en-clarke-says/

 

Conservative former chancellor Ken Clarke has said he believes there is now no way to prevent the UK leaving the EU.

 

The staunch Remainer said there was “little doubt” that Brexit would take place and argued a second referendum on any deal would be “folly”.

 

Mr Clarke told an audience at the Scottish Parliament’s Festival of Politics that a “no deal” scenario with the UK crashing out of the EU was “very unlikely”.

 

Asked if he thought there was any way Brexit could be averted, he said: “I’m more pessimistic than most people who were Remainers. I don’t think there is.

 

“The political class as a whole, leaving aside eccentrics like me, and as I say I think I was mainstream until a couple of months ago, they’ve all decided that this referendum was a kind of instruction from on high. It is the voice of the people and it can’t be challenged.

 

“Whether that will change, it won’t change in a hurry and I don’t think Parliament could bring itself to, they’re all terrified of the right-wing newspapers.

 

“They’d be accused of being saboteurs and enemies of the people if they stick to the opinions they had before the referendum.

 

“They did all say during the referendum they were going to be bound by it so they do regard themselves as bound by it.

 

“So I think there is little doubt that we’re going to leave. It would require an extraordinary turn of events I think to stop. Minimising the damage, getting as normal a relationship as possible is the best we can really do.”

 

On the prospect of another referendum on any deal agreed with the EU, the veteran MP said: “I don’t want ever to see another referendum in my lifetime.

 

“The idea that having put a very complicated question about ‘should Britain be a member of the European Union’ you now put a question saying ‘have a look at this long list of terms that we’ve now negotiated with 27 other states, do you approve of this or not?’ would be folly, it would be bizarre.”

 

He added: “I do think that no deal is very unlikely.

 

“There’s nobody on either side of the channel, no sensible person engaged in government or politics or business who thinks that no deal is somehow desirable. It would be totally disruptive.”

I note that Ken Clarke still thinks it is a terrible idea.

 

Meanwhile, the Leavers are trying to spread another lie, namely that trading purely under WTO rules won't be a problem because lots of countries do it. One such group is reporting a statement that countries such as the USA, Australia and Canada do it. Indeed, the claim is that "most great countries" trade purely on WTO terms. This, of course, is nonsense, For example, the USA and Canada are both part of NAFTA.

 

With this in mind, somebody sought to find the biggest country (measured by GDP) that trades purely on WTO terms. The answer - Mauritania whose GDP is roughly 1/500th the size of ours. Oh, it is also the smallest such country as there are no others.

 

https://medium.com/@MrWeeble/who-actually-t...es-1b6127ce33c6

UPDATE - some people are questioning this article. It seems that Mauritania may be a party to some free trade agreements after all. Therefore, the number of countries operating entirely under WTO rules may well be a big fat zero.

UPDATE - some people are questioning this article. It seems that Mauritania may be a party to some free trade agreements after all. Therefore, the number of countries operating entirely under WTO rules may well be a big fat zero.

 

So what you are saying is that there's no proof it wouldn't work? :teresa:

So what you are saying is that there's no proof it wouldn't work? :teresa:

Maybe there's a reason no county has wanted to try it. That reason might be that they think it will be disastrous for their economy. Or perhaps it's just that they don't like the colour of the documents they would have to fill in.

So what you are saying is that there's no proof it wouldn't work? :teresa:

 

so who's putting words in other peoples mouths now....?

 

You would have to be insane to think there would be anything other than economic disaster ahead leaving with No Deal.

 

Of course, if we do, then it will become pretty obvious in a very short time how disastrous it has all been, the Tories will die as a party for having brought it on one of the former-most-successful nations, and everyone who voted Leave will be proven to be complete pricks and they won't be able to blame anyone else. Plus loads of old people will die as they kill off the NHS through lack of money even faster than they already are, and it wouldnt be that long till a party with a manifesto to rejoin the EU gets elected by a landslide.

 

So, glass half-full then.... :P

so who's putting words in other peoples mouths now....?

 

What - I'm the only one not allowed to do that? ;)

 

You would have to be insane to think there would be anything other than economic disaster ahead leaving with No Deal.

 

Of course, if we do, then it will become pretty obvious in a very short time how disastrous it has all been, the Tories will die as a party for having brought it on one of the former-most-successful nations, and everyone who voted Leave will be proven to be complete pricks and they won't be able to blame anyone else. Plus loads of old people will die as they kill off the NHS through lack of money even faster than they already are, and it wouldnt be that long till a party with a manifesto to rejoin the EU gets elected by a landslide.

 

So, glass half-full then.... :P

 

From the above, I guess you made a lot of money as a consultant on Project Fear. :rolleyes: