In the spirit of a fair and independent democratic process I'm sure we can expect wikipedia to release dirt on the other singers, some vote rigging from "sources unknown", followed by a long list of jury voters being assassinated one by one :P

 

If people didn't want Russia to be humiliated they wouldnt have voted for Ukraine to win - well, technically, they didn't vote for Ukraine to win, if the phone vote is accurate.... :o

I'm glad they rejected it, somebody performing via satellite would have opened up such a can of worms for future contests and hardly promotes the unity that the contest is supposed to represent.

 

Yulia would have had a completely different experience to the other contestants and a number of unfair advantages and disadvantages - hardly would have made for a level playing field.

 

Satellite link for the qualifiers press conference too if they managed that? Jon Ola to draw a first half/second half slip on their behalf? :lol:

Laptop sitting in Russia's part of the press conference table with Julia on Skype with her cup of tea and cookies?

I hope very much that they can resolve this mess before May, however, if they can't, I hope Yulia rocks it next year with a totally awesome song. I will be keeping my fingers crossed and look forward to whatever they decide to do given that Russia always send a strong entry. I quite liked the song, though it wasn't my favourite and I don't think it was going to actually win, I was really intrigued to see what they would do with the staging and I admire her guts - given the state of relations between the two countries, volunteering to go is a big statement about how you feel and your hopes for the future which in this case have sadly not lived up to our dreams. I respect Yulia for wanting to go. I do totally feel sympathy with her, she's been given a raw deal out of what is really geopolitics - alas, I'm not in the least surprised.

 

Ukraine is to put it mildly, traumatised by the last few years. They have gone through two revolutions in ten years, the political system is riven with corruption and there are thousands still internally displaced by conflict. Added to the fact that thousands of their civil servants and military personnel changed sides instantly and they lost a substantial amount of their Navy and other military and security assets in the annexation. The Ukrainian Government has been on a war-footing since about March 2014 with all that entails, it was simply not consistent with human nature to expect them to be particularly rational about this. I am sure that NTU sought a work-around - which is what that satellite performance idea was about even though it was a completely preposterous idea and I am delighted that Russia told them to stuff it given the onerous precedents it establishes for future Contests. I can understand both sides, in the end a country has the right to decide who it chooses to have within its borders - particularly given the fact that Russia is not particularly democratic and might actually constitute a threat to the state's continued existence. Given these facts and the artist who is at the centre of this, it certainly doesn't make it at all right, but it does make it sadly predictable. It just underlines how desperately the two countries need a deal on where their borders actually are they can live with and make peace even if it is what will surely be an unsatisfactory peace to both sides.

 

Politics has always been a spectre in the Contest - it's absolutely wrong but it is human. I'll give a couple of examples, the Irish-UK bollocks through the '70s (look at the score-cards) and Armenia and Azerbaijan , their juries are permitted to blank each other every year no matter what is sent and it is very difficult to contend that Iveta was crap last year - unusual yes, crap no. Kicking Ukraine out of the Contest only rewards Russia and makes Ukraine feel more victimised and excluded than it already does - and it feels plenty victimised as it stands - and it is arguable how much Russia, at least at a state level, actually buys into the liberal values of the rest of Europe as a whole which are embodied by this Contest. Loosing chunks of your territory, fighting a war and getting kicked out of international cultural festivals is a heavy price to pay for simply wanting your state to run better, which is basically what Maidan was about. A solution would be a temporary wave of the visa rule for a fortnight for 'exceptional circumstances' so Yulia can enter Kyiv at lunchtime Friday 28th April, rehearse the song, perform and then leave at lunchtime on Sunday 14th so long as she doesn't leave the Kyiv city limits and has an escort, its not a good compromise, but its a compromise that I'm sure that both the organisers (rather than the Government and Russia's delegation are prepared to live with to get this thing done). Hell, make Jamala escort her - she caused the mess, make her fix it.

 

I do find '1944' a very moving entry and I do think its important to include songs which are of a variety of genres and reflect the experience of different groups, of whatever sort in the Contest. It is a tremendous shame that it happens to be a disabled woman who has come out the victim of this affair. There is good evidence to suggest that internet searches on forced deportations in the Soviet Union increased dramatically at the time of the Contest last year and it's worth mentioning that Russia did grant Ukraine 10-points in its public vote - clearly the Russian people understood what the song was about and accepted it on its own terms, as part of their history too, just as the UK would accept a song about the Potato Famine or the Easter Rising or Spain on the Reconquista. It would be uncomfortable but necessary listening. We learn and grow as a society and a continent by facing up to our failings as well as our triumphs and hopefully it got people talking - I know it did amongst some acquaintances of mine in the UK.

 

This is in the hands of politicians ultimately - it is for politicians, not the artists themselves, to fix this mess before it becomes a permanent festering sore - which might be precisely the point, given that Yulia is the perfect potential victim if you wanted to claim Ukraine was full of fascists which pretty much sums up Putin's arguments since Maidan. Wave the bloody travel ban and pretend that this is not a problem for a fortnight, because let's face it, Ukraine is not going to back-down to threats, they are ex-Soviet and made of sterner stuff, much of the Second World War was fought over their territory, they endured some of the worst of the Civil War and Stalin, they are the heir to the Cossacks, to suggest they'd back down over a threat to exclude them is silly - they'll call that threat, they are just that pissed off. Both Governments are clearly exploiting this situation for their own game of petty point-scoring, at the expense firstly of Yulia which is inexcusable, which will then end up turning a further bucket of poo on Jamala's head, who had been bad-mouthed quite enough - she won under the rules, tough if you don't like it, I absolutely detest Rybak's winner, we invalidate or diminish one winner, we diminish them all and we have no Contest, we don't get to pick and choose which results count after a winner is announced. All of this screams slippery slopes to me. Given the divisions in the Continent, involving everybody becomes more important, not excluding countries.

 

Looking at the thing quite calmly, probably without intending, Jamala has opened up a fascinating discussion on the role of free-speech in the Contest and just what constitutes 'politics', as well as acknowledging that reducing the song to just a statement would sell it short. We do not want a situation that we are sending bland and anodyne songs to the Contest just to avoid the risk of trouble - that only preferences countries that do IKEA pop particularly well. Conceivable the UK is allowed next year to sing a song about why we chose Brexit or Ireland about the Potato Famine, Armenia about their Genocide (presumably fine now Turkey is gone) and Israel about the Holocaust. This is a discussion we need to have if the Contest is to remain both viable without tit-for-tats between countries that don't like each other and to maintain artistic integrity. From the point of view of artistic merit, this might be good, the problem is whether it becomes about airing Europe's dirty laundry. We need to be honest and upfront with that problem and review the rules on free expression. It's also possible a total review of the rules might now be called for given that the competition is changing out of all recognition from the one originally conceived by Marcel Bezençon (I know that Poli Genova has suggested they look at the number of bodies on the stage rule). Weirdly, this whole nasty affair might have done us a favour by pushing the rules as far as they would go without buckling completely and showing just how elastic the structures are. Perhaps NTU assumed that The Hardkiss would win selection, I think most people probably did until Jamala opened her mouth and sang on Semi 1 of Ukraine's NF. The results issue is a non-sequitur really, EBU agreed to change the rules on how the points are generated and counted, they should be prepared for a situation where somebody wins on points total and not winning a category and I suspect that won't turn out to be a one-time event and frankly, I can't see given that the most of the Big Five are reliant on jury votes for points and they pay for the Contest, the Reference Group choosing to preference public votes or downgrade juries by some other way. In a weird way, though this does force us to ask a lot of difficult and delicate questions and though Yulia might be disadvantaged this time, we should at least, with a bit of luck, end up with a fairer system in the long-run and I'm sure that Russia would be keen on anything that ensures the Contest strengthens, not weakens.

 

Additionally, it also opens out questions of financial contributions as Russia has become a major power in this competition and has influence. Is it now allowed to leverage that influence to have rules changed in its favour? We can assume that the next time Russia wins, which is only a matter of time given the calibre of entries they consistently send, that Ukraine will drop out? Sad, but probably for the best - these two countries don't even exchange Ambassadors anymore, Switzerland does a lot of diplomacy on their behalf which is just something they do.

 

In the end, it all depends on Russia - does it believe in the concept of a Contest driven by a combination of hedged-bets - a jury system and public votes at all and how comfortable is it really with the idea of a competition where one of the main demographics is gay men? Leaving aside the lady and song in-question, Russia has a decision ahead of it, does it see itself as part of the Contest when the Contest's values are moving beyond how far it is prepared to go internally? I would say the same question is true of Belarus and to a lesser extent Azerbaijan which is also quite authoritarian. Decisions need to be made - the future of the Contest might rely on it, especially if the concept of the Big Five begins to recede into the past.

 

All that we can be sure off is that there are absolutely no easy solutions in what is really just a symptom of a far bigger problem which desperately has to be solved - quickly....

Edited April 1, 20178 yr by NicM82

As much as I kind of like her song, I hope she doesn't make it to the show this year or the public vote is going to be so biased, everyone is going to vote for her being banned in the first place. And the song don't deserve the win really.

Channel One are saying they won't be broadcasting the contest, which seems like as much confirmation as any that they're withdrawing.

LASHA TUMBAI

I'm OK with this.

Now official:

 

https://eurovision.tv/story/russia-unable-t...7-ebu-statement

How much does this hurt countries like Belarus in the semi?

How much does this hurt countries like Belarus in the semi?

 

Isn't Belarus dead on arrival already? Can't see it coming even close to qualifying.

I imagine it only hurts Belarus massively. All the Caucasus countries are in semi 1, Moldova are in semi 1, Ukraine are in the final and Estonia have distanced themselves from Russia. Bulgaria would've been on for big points but they were sailing through anyway. Lithuania and Israel may have been on for some minor points based on their voting histories but can't imagine they would be getting 10s or 12s.

 

Do I think Belarus could miss out on qualifying by less than 24 points? Very possible :( But I maintain hope they will capture the audience like a Flor-de-lis did. Lithuania were never making it even with their diaspora vote and Bulgaria will be safe.

How much does this hurt countries like Belarus in the semi?

 

Depends which theorem you buy. Either they just lost out on 24 points or there's a whole heap of "missing" Russian diasporic votes in countries like Ukraine, Israel and the Baltic states that can very easily make Belarus their new home (like how some people argue that it was Turkey not qualifying that gave Azerbaijan the televote win in 2011).

That said, Belarus is going to pick up a metric tonne of televotes from all over the map on the same basis that Loin D'ici did last year of being charming and adorable (plus I've heard rumors that their staging involves FLYING which I cannot wait to see if that's the case) so I still think they'll qualify with relative ease.

Indeed a good point that very much plays to Bulgaria's strength in particular you would think, particularly once we are in the final!

Indeed a good point that very much plays to Bulgaria's strength in particular you would think, particularly once we are in the final!

 

I mean it depends on how much Bulgaria play up the marketing to Russian speakers in the East between now and the final but it's certainly possible (and if they do I reckon that's a sign that they're prepared to really challenge for the victory).

Isn't Belarus dead on arrival already? Can't see it coming even close to qualifying.

:rolleyes:

 

The song is catchy and should have a good response from the viewers unless they get the staging completely wrong which i doubt.

I've anticipated Belarus in bottom three in the final. It's messy and dirgey with no major hook to latch on to, I don't know what you guys are hearing that I'm not! Not singing in English isnt an advantage either (I'm aware Italy will likely win, btw, so. Slight contradiction but still...).

Edited April 13, 20178 yr by ScottyEm

Surely Belarus has arguably the biggest hook amongst all 42 entries? Yes it's short and it's repetitive but if there's anything you are going to remember song-wise after all 18 performances it will be "HEY HEY HAYAYAYAYO" :o

Belarus will surely be rousing and I'm going to buy that Russian diaspora line latching on to it because that would be just perfect.

 

Bye bye Russia, see you in 2018... apparently with Julia back. Not sure I buy that.