PS: from Robbie's autobiography:

"Rob has an idea, an idea he's gleefully excited about. He has realized that both he and GB are planning to release new solo albums towards the end of the year. He thinks they should release them on the same day and engineer a high-profile media battle, just as 50 Cent and Kanye West did a few years ago or, more combatively, like the notorious Oasis versus Blur face-off. Rob's view is that a stunt like this would be bound to raise the sales of both records. He obviously thinks it would be fun too.

He emails Gary, excited. Gary answers, much less so. Rob reads out part of his reply:<<I would do anything for that not to happen. It brings up too much of the past for me.I would love after 13 years just for a record to have its own story".

We all know how that turned out. Robbie couldn't give a cr** about Gary's wishes and went ahead and released his album just one week before,knowing that the media would pit them against each other, which is exactly what happened. Nice friend!!!!

 

"After seriously considering it, Rob had told Gary that he couldn't be involved in the next TT project. There were a number of reasons, one being that it didn't seem quite so enticing without all 5 of them"

So, what's changed? If the boys invited him to be a part of III and he refused, because it wasn't "enticing" - he probably didn't want to be a part of a sinking ship - why now, all of a sudden, he's doing appearances and documentaries with the boys, if not for the money? The ship isn't sinking anymore, so it's more "enticing", I guess.

 

"In March, Gaz was on Chatty Man with Alan Carr and I DIDN"T WATCH THE INTERVIEW, but the upshot of it was: he had left the door open for me still, saying "well, it's down to Rob whether he wants to". And then it was in the newspapers and I googled myself and, in 250 news stories was: "Robbie's been given an ultimatum". Gary said: "Well, we've got to May to know what we're doing.". So, I got the hump with that, because I thought: I know where this is heading. This is heading towards: Robbie Williams spoils reunion and he's a nasty bast*rd again. That's how it felt anyway. And I DON"T WANT TO LOOK LIKE THE BAD GUY. So, I was a bit angry about that".

Nice of him that he had all the time to google 250 articles about himself, but he didn't have 2 minutes to watch the yt video to see what Gary had actually said. Of course, he only cared about himself. I guess Gary wasn't entitled to be angry when Robbie ignored him and decided to release the same time as he did. Double standards and all that....The next bit is the best - Robbie in all his caring glory! Why answer a simple question, when he could throw the boys under the bus?

 

"That's what was in his mind when The Sun came to interview him in Vienna: "I'm stressed at the start of the tour (best excuse ever, Rob!!!), and she's asking: "So, where are you with the ultimatum?"and I went: "What f***** ultimatum? I told them in December I'm not doing it. It's Jason who's not doing it, not me."

Nobody knew about Jason's departure. Rob's management quickly had to let TT know what Rob had done. For a while, it was almost back to the black old days.

Gary sends an email back to Josie going: "Why does he want to do something like that?It's so destructive. Does he want the band to implode?". I woke up in Austria and I'd got an email from Howard and it was really short and it just said "look, I know it's probably good for you, but that wasn't good for us, didn't like what you did!". I thought: "WTF?". Then I sent an email back that was a bit terse and angry. And Gary sent an email. Then I wrote this needlessly long email, detailing other superfluous stuff: "Well, when you did this in deh deh deh....I said deh deh deh and you said deh deh and it's because of deh deh deh." I shouldn't have sent it. (That's always his excuse -"oh, I'm impulsive, I'm childish....this is my excuse for everything; I shit on other people and then I blame them and make excuses for my behaviour). You'd have thought I'd might have learnt by now. It was an emotional response. And the foundations of it weren't built on solid ground. It was just "I don't like the fact I've been given this ultimatum (Gary had never given him any ultimatum, the media had made that u, but I guess he's too dumb to distinguish). I said that I'm not f*****doing it - just say that I'm not f***** doing it! (so, now the boys are truly given an ultimatum and an order from king Robbie, who can't stand to be associated with them when they're going down). They were "This has to be engineered in the right way". In my head (not his brain, obviously!) it was just "Why don't you just say Jason's not doing it?"......

More emails followed , with more recriminations and no solutions. Rob credits Gary with being the one who eventually calmed the waters and persuaded everyone that these fractious exchanges were going nowhere and solving nothing. "He's the bigger and better person than me", Rob says. At one point, he adds: Gary also wrote: "I hope this doesn't stop us speaking for years (again)"

 

So, Elisabeth, this is why I don't believe Robbie deserves to be with the boys. He's sabotaged them every occasion he got and he only has his best interests at heart, damn the others!

And this is the arrogant Gary that controls everyone and everything, ladies and gentlemen!

I still think that both Jay and Rob's contributions had to be acknowledged because it was a celebration of 30 years of TT, although I can understand your point regarding the three of them not being centre stage. I suppose their most popular periods were as a 5 and then a 4. I think Gary, Howard and Mark accept that their popularity has waned as a three.

 

I fully accept that for many TT isn't TT if there aren't the five of them. I became a fan in 2005 so for me the best of TT was as a four piece.

 

Sadly, I have to agree with you regarding Rob. I think he uses the lads when it suits him (although to an extent I'm sure they've used him) and only joined them off the back of the incredible Circus tour. If the above it true, and as the extracts are from Rob's autobiography, then it does appear that for Rob it's less of an emotional pull and more of a status/financial one.

 

For all the comments about Jay leaving and the supposed closeness between him and Rob, I'm convinced that Rob's return was the catalyst for Jay leaving. The body language in the documentary and on stage was not good. Jay stated in his leaving statement that he'd fallen out of love with music but I really think there was more to it than that. Rob's return wasn't a positive thing for the band in my view - for Rob yes, but the rest, no.

Yeah, for me, at least, it's very obvious that what they're stating publicly and what they really feel are 2 different things.

I genuinely believe Gary when he says he regards Robbie as a friend, that's why it drives me nuts when I see all the cr** Robbie is pulling on him and the others.

At least Jason had the decency to never do anything like that to the boys - what's going on between them stays between them.

 

As I've said, I agree that both Jason and Robbie's contributions had to be acknowledged, that's indisputable. What I'm saying is that Robbie's presence in the documentary wasn't necessary, given all he's done to the boys. He could have left them have their moment. I truly, truly despised him when he referred to them as "my business brothers". He's clever when it comes to distorting reality without many people noticing it.

Maybe the III and Wonderland eras weren't as successful as the previous ones, but, given the context, it's no wonder. They were still successful and it was all down to Gary, Mark and Howard. 30 years of work and did anyone actually acknowledge these eras? Even Odyssey was brushed off. So, I have a problem with the program being called "We've come a long way" while we're only presented the beginning and some of the middle.

 

Oh, and funny how Robbie uploads his new single on yt precisely the day the documentary airs! How convenient!

Edited December 29, 20186 yr by milly

It has to be said very few bands have the history or complexity of TT!!! For a 'bland' boy band they've somehow managed to conjure up so much controversy:)

 

I agree with you in so far as the documentary could have focused a little more on the past four years and their work on the last two tours and the musical, but for whatever reason that didn't happen.

 

I'm putting it out there now - I don't think Howard likes Rob very much. I've obviously no actual proof but it's a feeling I've had for some time. I believe Gary admires Rob and is probably just a tad envious of his solo career, but genuinely views him as a friend. As for Mark Rob could drop him from a very high cliff and Mark would still think he's the most wonderful thing since sliced bread.

 

I actually feel for Howard. A few months ago he bumped into the 'elusive Jay' on Kensington High Street and they had a brief chat. Apparently that was the first time Jay had see Howard's two children. Howard has also posted some lovely heart felt posts about Jay - who has completely cut the boys out of his life. I genuinely think that Howard is upset by Jay's decision to not only walk away from the band, but also their friendship.

 

 

That's exactly what I'm thinking, dylandog.

Howard and Jason seemed to be very good friends during the TT years and Mark, well, he seems to be friends with everyone. I'm not including Gary on this one, although, back in the 90s, they said themselves, it was Gary-Howard-Jay, on one side, and Mark-Robbie, on the other side.

I can understand - to a certain extent - Jason's decision to quit the music industry, but I don't get why he had to also quit his friendships. Howard was the one who said, during an interview, that Jason doesn't even reply to their emails anymore.

 

I strongly believe that, if that reunion last night had been secretly filmed in a therapist's office, we'd have seen a more honest reaction from the boys. No matter how much you care about someone - or precisely because you care so much about someone -, you're bound to feel angry and frustrated and upset when that someone dismisses you from their life. I swear, the most sincere reaction was during that interview in I don't know what country - all the boys' body language, when asked about Jason, got so tense and you could read on their faces that they were done with always accounting for Jason's decision, it was unmistakable. Yes, they had good times with Jason in the band, yes, they considered him their friend, but, at the same time, they're quite pissed at him - whether it's because he left the band or because he left them to deal with the aftermath and all the questions or because he excludes them from his personal life altogether, that, I don't know.

 

To be frank now, I wouldn't have minded Robbie's presence in the documentary if everyone in there had been honest. I get it, that, for business purposes, they have to be all sugary and lovey-dovey, but it's just too much, especially when it's fake. What Gary, Mark and Howard have is genuine, when you put Robbie and Jason in the mix, it all becomes forced.

It has to be said very few bands have the history or complexity of TT!!! For a 'bland' boy band they've somehow managed to conjure up so much controversy:)

 

I agree with you in so far as the documentary could have focused a little more on the past four years and their work on the last two tours and the musical, but for whatever reason that didn't happen.

 

I'm putting it out there now - I don't think Howard likes Rob very much. I've obviously no actual proof but it's a feeling I've had for some time. I believe Gary admires Rob and is probably just a tad envious of his solo career, but genuinely views him as a friend. As for Mark Rob could drop him from a very high cliff and Mark would still think he's the most wonderful thing since sliced bread.

 

I actually feel for Howard. A few months ago he bumped into the 'elusive Jay' on Kensington High Street and they had a brief chat. Apparently that was the first time Jay had see Howard's two children. Howard has also posted some lovely heart felt posts about Jay - who has completely cut the boys out of his life. I genuinely think that Howard is upset by Jay's decision to not only walk away from the band, but also their friendship.

 

I actually gave it to you with the quote from Rob's autobiography. When Howard sent that email to Robbie and told him "I know it's good for you", it pretty much summed up what he believes about him in general - the truth comes out when you have these outbursts. Howard knows that Robbie is mainly after his own interests, but he's trying to give him the benefit of the doubt for the sake of the group.

 

I wonder if the boys know that Robbie launched his new single yesterday and, if they do, it'd be interesting to know if they felt used once again.

Edited December 29, 20186 yr by milly

Jay was always the one that struggled with the limelight so to some extent it wasn't a surprise that he was the one to jump ship. I also felt that he was, to put it bluntly, rather work shy.

 

I think they probably understand/accept his decision to leave the music industry, but I agree with you, they must be hurt and confused by his actions to cut them out of his life. I know if a friend I'd spent many years with did that to me I'd feel very hurt. It does make me wonder what an earth went on? Was Jay appalled by their involvement in the tax scheme or was it something else? Whilst I understand Jay has his own life and friendship groups to completely erase them from his life is drastic to say the least.

 

I remember being at Wembley for the Circus Tour. I think it was the last but one night. It was a truly magical experience, and one I'll never forget. The absolute joy on their faces, and the joy on Jay's face at the end of the show was something to behold. I would never have guessed that he was done with the band and only stayed on for the Progress tour so they could finish as a five. I recall reading that but can't remember where. To think that their appearance at the 2012 Olympics would be Jay's last performance with the band - if he only stayed along enough for the reunion tour then I do wonder why he didn't quit the band immediately following it?

Ya I don't get why he has just vanished from their lives considering how long they know each other and there was no bug falling out.

Jay was always the one that struggled with the limelight so to some extent it wasn't a surprise that he was the one to jump ship. I also felt that he was, to put it bluntly, rather work shy .

 

I think they probably understand/accept his decision to leave the music industry, but I agree with you, they must be hurt and confused by his actions to cut them out of his life. I know if a friend I'd spent many years with did that to me I'd feel very hurt. It does make me wonder what an earth went on? Was Jay appalled by their involvement in the tax scheme or was it something else? Whilst I understand Jay has his own life and friendship groups to completely erase them from his life is drastic to say the least.

 

I remember being at Wembley for the Circus Tour. I think it was the last but one night. It was a truly magical experience, and one I'll never forget. The absolute joy on their faces, and the joy on Jay's face at the end of the show was something to behold. I would never have guessed that he was done with the band and only stayed on for the Progress tour so they could finish as a five. I recall reading that but can't remember where. To think that their appearance at the 2012 Olympics would be Jay's last performance with the band - if he only stayed along enough for the reunion tour then I do wonder why he didn't quit the band immediately following it?

:heehee: ROFL

 

I don't think it has anything to do with the their tax scheme. I doubt he even knew what the boys did with their share. Jason's finances are managed by his brother, the boys' by someone else. I don't see them sit down and talk: "oh, did your lawyer/accountant make you sign that paper regarding that investment?". I really trust Gary when he says he had no idea what he was signing - if he had any suspicion back then that it would be something that would backfire, he'd have pulled the money out immediately and payed the tax to the State, just like he did when he found out what it was all about.

BUT, in the eventuality that Gary and the others lie and they knew they were doing something morally questionable and Jason was aware of this and this is the reason he left the band, then shame on him! He isn't a saint, he's done his fair share of morally questionable things in life - at the end of the day, using fans for sex is way more wrong than making an investment that doesn't break any laws -, so he wasn't in any position to judge. Just like all the others, he did alcohol, he did drugs, he used people for his own pleasure.....he really had no foot to stand on when it came to this. He is enjoying, after all, a life of doing nothing off the back of others, limelight shy or not.

I sincerely hope that is not the reason he quit the band. If it were, his mum being in the documentary would look very weird.

On the subject of the mother's. I don't know their respective ages by golly they all look so good. As Howard is 50ish, his mother must be around 70 years of age. Gary's mother hardly has any wrinkles ( I'd love to know her secret) and I think she is 70. The TT mums certainly have good genes!!!!

 

Re Jay - you're probably right about the tax thing, Milly, but it's all rather perplexing. The other thing about Jay is whilst he has this persona as the 'deep and intellectual one' of the band, on the few occasions he's been in the press he's often been photographed with much younger women placing him in that 'older man/ younger women cliché realm.

 

Reading between the lines it seems Howard has had a tough couple of years. I think the two boys have been a handful, not sleeping and generally he's found parenthood rather draining second time around. It appears that his wife Katie has also been unwell for some time and she has only recently started designing again. I think the past four years have been quite challenging for the lads in their family lives. It's obviously just come to light that Dawn became ill following the loss of Poppy - all in all it's remarkable that they have the energy to do as much as they do.

Somehow, I think Gary'd switch places with Howard in a heartbeat :) I'm sure he's happy for Howard and Katie, but, at the same time, he must be somewhat jealous or hurting. I know I would be if I lost my baby and then every single friend of mine started popping babies.

It's really a messed up situation.

 

I feel for Howard and, at the same time, I find it really funny. It was high time men and not just women were tired because of newborns or toddlers :P

I was out last night with a close friend who has an almost 2 year old and another baby on her way - the poor thing hasn't had a good night sleep in ages. But it's hilarious to hear the extremes toddlers go to keep their parents up most of the night :D

I just watched. I really enjoyed it. ^_^ I didn't learn anything new but enjoyed seeing all the old film and as always loved the demonstration of their friendship .

 

They've all overcome a lot in their lives and I love to see their "Happy Ending" and their love. Makes me smile every time. :wub:

 

Hopefully next time whenever that will be - Jay will be with them. I found the five sparklers quite poignant.

Up to 232,500 sales now. Still a way to go for platinum!

It's not bad for 6 weeks and it should sell over the next couple of months to get it platinum.

I don't understand the talk about Jay like he is a bad guy here when this is probably the main reason why he quit the band, to stop stangers being judgmental on him.

 

What's wrong with him dating young girls or older girls (Catherine Tate wasn't exactly young when they were dating)? He is single and should be allowed to date whoever he wants. And if he decided to quit because of the tax thing then I don't see any problem. People has different values in life that hold dear to their heart.

 

Anyway, all this was just you guys' speculations (not even truth) and you still manage to use it to talk down on him just because he is not your favorite.

 

Jason has never been a fan of technology since when he was in the band so I see no reasons for him to change after he left the band. Being of grid is so Jason that I don't know why everyone would be surprised.

 

I have a lot of old colleagues that I was close to when I was working with them but never bother to keep in touch. I still like them but they are not my priority at the moment. There are so many levels of friendship and Take That is definitely a unique one.

Edited December 31, 20186 yr by BadHabit

Guess we all see friendship in a different way. If I were living off the money I made with a bunch of other people, I'd at least be respectful enough to reply to their emails.

 

But you are right, it's all speculation on our parts - what else would it be, since none of us are living with them? :P

 

And you are right, we all have different values.

I'm sorry you see it that way BadHabit. I in no way meant to be dismissive of Jay or suggest that he is a 'bad guy.' If you read my post I do say I miss Jay and for me they were at their best as a four piece. However, it's not unfair of me to point out that he had few leads, which I think is a shame by the way,because he's my second favourite vocalist in the band, or that he had very little input re song writing.

 

The forum is for comments and opinions and unless we're looking at facts such as sales figures, then of course it's merely conjecture. My point was that I didn't fully understand the intellectual label given to Jason. Of course he can 'date' whom is wishes, regardless of their age, I don't think I suggested otherwise, but simply made an observations that he appears to have been photographed with much younger women on a number of occasions and therefore falls into that stereotype of older man/ younger woman. By the way for balance Howard is married to a much younger woman as well.

 

I think it is relevant to comment on the fact that he's broken off all contact with the band as I though they had a close bond, but seemingly that's not the case. And as fans it's not unusual to speculate as to the reasons why.

 

 

 

 

Odyssey up to number 3 in the midweeks :cheer:

I'm happy with the position in the midweeks, but I'm more interested in sales. Also, I doubt they're gonna be able to hold on that no 3 till Friday. They're already started slipping down.

 

 

In regards to Jason dating younger women - although I couldn't care less about his private life (as long as his private life doesn't affect TT's image/reputation/connections)-, I do believe it's morally wrong for a 40+ old man to be dating 20 year olds. No, a person doesn't have the right to date whomever they please. In some countries, it's legal for 80+ year olds to marry young girls, some are still kids - based on the mighty principle that "one can do whatever/whomever they please". Just because it's not illegal, it doesn't mean it's not wrong. Plus, it's just disturbing to see an almost 50 year old - or is he 50 already? - jumping from woman to woman - he's either interested in settling down, in which case he should be dating just one person -or he's not interested in a family life, in which case he shouldn't be dating at all. I could understand it to some extent when all the boys were teens or in their early 20s, but now it's just ridiculous. I know you all live in a "liberal" thinking country, but I have the feeling nowadays abnormalities are being perceived as normal, which is soooo wrong.

It's not right that any person on this forum be made to "retract" an opinion based on a system of values, just because others' fan bias.

 

Like dylandog said, nobody believes Jason is "a bad guy", but that doesn't mean he's a saint either- he's just showing signs of immature and questionable decisions.

Every single member of this band has been criticized for various choices they've made in their lives, why would be Jason exempt from the same treatment? He actually had it pretty easy going while he was in the band. For all his questionable public appearances, he never got the 10th amount of the slagging Gary did for simply existing.

Odyssey up to number 3 in the midweeks :cheer:

 

Fantastic! Let’s hope it holds the top 5