Steve probably goes to bed every night listening to this song;

 

 

Either way, no England fan can or should be proud of the performances overall so far, and it's atrocious that we are still allowed to be here in this competition for another round, but nerves and angst is part and parcel of being an England fan and constantly seeing your side go into extra time and penalties tournament after tournament.

In some way, this emotional rollercoaster has gotten me into the team again. I still don't think we're going anywhere too deep with the performances we've had and Southgate has been playing absolute badguy football, but f*** me if I'm not getting a little bit patriotic and proud that we pulled an anime-ass final seconds recovery out of nowhere to head deeper into the tournament than we should otherwise be. That's fun stuff.

Steve probably goes to bed every night listening to this song;

 

 

Either way, no England fan can or should be proud of the performances overall so far, and it's atrocious that we are still allowed to be here in this competition for another round, but nerves and angst is part and parcel of being an England fan and constantly seeing your side go into extra time and penalties tournament after tournament.

 

:lol: it’s not a pro Southgate thing for me other than the fact I see a bit of me in him, not one of the cool guys from the golden generation, more of a nerdy nice guy than the Lamps, Gerrard, Rio cool guys who can’t manage but sit in the studios enjoying the holiday 😬.

 

It’s more a ridiculous expectation and arrogance I dislike and most small countries dislike about them.

:lol: it’s not a pro Southgate thing for me other than the fact I see a bit of me in him, not one of the cool guys from the golden generation, more of a nerdy nice guy than the Lamps, Gerrard, Rio cool guys who can’t manage but sit in the studios enjoying the holiday 😬.

 

It’s more a ridiculous expectation and arrogance I dislike and most small countries dislike about them.

 

He's clearly a decent bloke. I don't think anyone thinks otherwise, but his dull brand of football has just gotten stale. It happens, that's why it's one tournament too many for him imo. At least if we go out in the QF (unless we get tonked) then he won't have the same level of embarrasment as we did in 2016. Obviously he's a good man manager, the players speak really highly of him. But nobody can convince me this camp is not a bit of a disaster. That whole "we're finding our way after Kalvin Phillips" points to some major red flags in that he does not really know what he is doing at the moment.

 

Not sure this ridiculous expectation is exclusive to England though? Take Wales as an example, they've just sacked Rob Page who got them to their first World Cup finals in however long after not qualifying for the Euros and losing the fans. It's not an exclusive to England thing imo.

It’s a results based business though Roo not like in the premier league and he shows time and again at international level he’s been a success with this team over the past 8 years. Again they are in a Q-F AGAIN. Sven is probably more well thought of and that was the height of his achievements with the team.

 

For the record o do think the Swiss will put them and maybe you out of your misery the way they are performing in the tournament.

 

On a side note did you see Liverpool are after Gordon 😳

One thing I would say, is from the last tournament in 2022 to this one we are missing the following players;

 

Harry Maguire

Jack Grealish

Jordan Henderson

Raheem Sterling

Marcus Rashford

Nick Pope

Kalvin Phillips

Eric Dier

Conor Coady

Mason Mount

Ben White

Callum Wilson

James Maddison

 

That's a lot of missing talent this competition that Southgate might regret having not chosen.

Plus if you look back at the last Euros, played in 2021, he could also call on the following names in games;

 

Tyrone Mings

Jadon Sancho

Dominic Calvert-Lewin

Ben Chilwell

Sam Johnstone

Reece James

Worth noting that England won 6 knockout games between 1968-2016 and that was Southgate’s 7th in 8 years!

Worth noting that England won 6 knockout games between 1968-2016 and that was Southgate’s 7th in 8 years!

 

Would have been 7 if he didn’t miss a penalty. But yeah that’s just misleading stats. For example this tournament has been expanded. Euros never used to have a last 16 until recently.

 

In 96 England got to the semis, lost on pens, in 90 got to the semis lost on pens, 2004 QF lost on pens. 2006 QF lost on pens. 86 hand of god QF unlucky exit 2012 QF lost on pens

 

This picture you’re painting is not accurate. England have always got pretty far in tournaments and usually been unlucky to go out on penalties. The group of players Southgate has had is superior to most of those squads and yet in terms of performance it’s far worse.

The mood is just really different at the moment. There's no feel good or fun factor at the moment like the momentum in 2018, the home advantage of 2020/2021 and even 2022. We all think we're crap under Southgate.. because we are.

I don't feel like there was much 'fun factor' in 2022, beating piss poor Wales & Iran sides and limping out to France in the quarters. the mood in the pub I watched the game in was positive at full time. regardless of how we played today, we're in the last 8 of Europe with a reasonably favourable draw (yes Switzerland have been strong in places so far but would rather draw them than the likes of Spain) and a strong defence - there's every reason to be at least reasonably optimistic.

One thing I would say, is from the last tournament in 2022 to this one we are missing the following players;

 

Harry Maguire

Jack Grealish

Jordan Henderson

Raheem Sterling

Marcus Rashford

Nick Pope

Kalvin Phillips

Eric Dier

Conor Coady

Mason Mount

Ben White

Callum Wilson

James Maddison

 

That's a lot of missing talent this competition that Southgate might regret having not chosen.

I do wish we'd called up Dier over Dunk & Maddison over Wharton (not anything against Wharton, but Southgate has made it quite obvious he's not going to get many/any minutes)

Also I must have imagined it but I thought James Ward-Prowse was with the England squad at the last tournament but it seems not.

It’s a results based business though Roo not like in the premier league and he shows time and again at international level he’s been a success with this team over the past 8 years. Again they are in a Q-F AGAIN. Sven is probably more well thought of and that was the height of his achievements with the team.

 

For the record o do think the Swiss will put them and maybe you out of your misery the way they are performing in the tournament.

 

On a side note did you see Liverpool are after Gordon 😳

 

Performances give weight though. And just because he's had success doesn't mean his time should continue. He's done a lot, given some great memories, but this is a tournament too far imo. You can see something is not right, maybe this euphoria might lead to some change, but there's basic tactical issues he's not sorting out. He's always been slow to react in games, and I get his style is reactive rather than proactive, but the game today was dreadful.

 

I did and I think he'd actually be a really good signing. Means Diaz will be off.

 

Would have been 7 if he didn’t miss a penalty. But yeah that’s just misleading stats. For example this tournament has been expanded. Euros never used to have a last 16 until recently.

 

In 96 England got to the semis, lost on pens, in 90 got to the semis lost on pens, 2004 QF lost on pens. 2006 QF lost on pens. 86 hand of god QF unlucky exit 2012 QF lost on pens

 

This picture you’re painting is not accurate. England have always got pretty far in tournaments and usually been unlucky to go out on penalties. The group of players Southgate has had is superior to most of those squads and yet in terms of performance it’s far worse.

 

We got fairly unlucky in 2004 and 2006. Can't remember the exact specifics, but if we had 10 men in the Portugal game in 2006, I think we'd have won it. We just had that 10 year period where we really stuggled. Part of that was the culture of Premier League by all accounts, which meant club rivalries spilled out to the national team and obviously the failing of the golden generation in 2006. 2010 was a weird one, we were well beaten by the beginnings of an excellent Germany side, but we got unlucky with the ghost goal. Momentum takes us through there.

Would have been 7 if he didn’t miss a penalty. But yeah that’s just misleading stats. For example this tournament has been expanded. Euros never used to have a last 16 until recently.

 

In 96 England got to the semis, lost on pens, in 90 got to the semis lost on pens, 2004 QF lost on pens. 2006 QF lost on pens. 86 hand of god QF unlucky exit 2012 QF lost on pens

 

This picture you’re painting is not accurate. England have always got pretty far in tournaments and usually been unlucky to go out on penalties. The group of players Southgate has had is superior to most of those squads and yet in terms of performance it’s far worse.

 

It expanded to 16 teams in 1996? That’s 28 years ago :lol:

 

And the squad has always been considered superior, in 30 years they’ll say exactly the same about the current squad and football in general!

I do wish we'd called up Dier over Dunk & Maddison over Wharton (not anything against Wharton, but Southgate has made it quite obvious he's not going to get many/any minutes)

 

There was no room for Maddison as he’s a attacking player whereas Wharton is a defensive midfield style player!

Performances give weight though. And just because he's had success doesn't mean his time should continue. He's done a lot, given some great memories, but this is a tournament too far imo. You can see something is not right, maybe this euphoria might lead to some change, but there's basic tactical issues he's not sorting out. He's always been slow to react in games, and I get his style is reactive rather than proactive, but the game today was dreadful.

 

I did and I think he'd actually be a really good signing. Means Diaz will be off.

We got fairly unlucky in 2004 and 2006. Can't remember the exact specifics, but if we had 10 men in the Portugal game in 2006, I think we'd have won it. We just had that 10 year period where we really stuggled. Part of that was the culture of Premier League by all accounts, which meant club rivalries spilled out to the national team and obviously the failing of the golden generation in 2006. 2010 was a weird one, we were well beaten by the beginnings of an excellent Germany side, but we got unlucky with the ghost goal. Momentum takes us through there.

 

Aul Barney sums it up well in the Guardian about the England managers position:

 

"In reality it is a flight. You are the quarry. And the thing pursuing you is failure. Every victory is no more than an act of delay. Southgate is essentially out here divvying up legacy, teetering at every turn between defiant success and crowing failure. Which way will it fall? England will now play Switzerland in Düsseldorf, a game they can win if they play well, something that frankly seems laughably remote on the back of four matches so far. But stranger things have happened. One of them here."

We got fairly unlucky in 2004 and 2006. Can't remember the exact specifics, but if we had 10 men in the Portugal game in 2006, I think we'd have won it. We just had that 10 year period where we really stuggled. Part of that was the culture of Premier League by all accounts, which meant club rivalries spilled out to the national team and obviously the failing of the golden generation in 2006. 2010 was a weird one, we were well beaten by the beginnings of an excellent Germany side, but we got unlucky with the ghost goal. Momentum takes us through there.

 

Yeah 98 too England were great but the the beckham sending off and disallowed goal then pens loss again. Those teams were like Andy Murray there were a few slightly better teams out there but they played reasonably well and were very unlucky. With Southgate I’ve felt we’ve had better players than the opposition but played worse and usually lost games we should have won due to themselves not refs or unfortunate things.

 

Croatia were there for the taking. Should have beat Italy and from there it has been downhill

 

It expanded to 16 teams in 1996? That’s 28 years ago :lol:

 

And the squad has always been considered superior, in 30 years they’ll say exactly the same about the current squad and football in general!

 

Are you telling me Slovakia should be 70 seconds away from knocking England out. You talk like what we see isn’t real. It’s obvious this team is unbalanced and unstructured and can’t create chances. It’s been obvious for months, every game this tournament. All Southgate does is say buzzphrases like a politician “I don’t hear the noise” then repeats the same mistakes with the same outcome and you keep defending him. He is clearly out of his depth. When you have so many options (Gordon, palmer etc) and you stick with a formula that isn’t working what is the point? What is he even there for? Even against Slovakia they went 2-1 up then defended for their lives. He’s always done that. This guy talks about bravery but then acts like a coward. He might actually be deluded which would explain his decisions. I hope he will finally learn from the last game but I thought that the game before and he went right back to a losing formula again so we shall see.

 

Yeah 98 too England were great but the the beckham sending off and disallowed goal then pens loss again. Those teams were like Andy Murray there were a few slightly better teams out there but they played reasonably well and were very unlucky. With Southgate I’ve felt we’ve had better players than the opposition but played worse and usually lost games we should have won due to themselves not refs or unfortunate things.

 

Croatia were there for the taking. Should have beat Italy and from there it has been downhill

Are you telling me Slovakia should be 70 seconds away from knocking England out. You talk like what we see isn’t real. It’s obvious this team is unbalanced and unstructured and can’t create chances. It’s been obvious for months, every game this tournament. All Southgate does is say buzzphrases like a politician “I don’t hear the noise” then repeats the same mistakes with the same outcome and you keep defending him. He is clearly out of his depth. When you have so many options (Gordon, palmer etc) and you stick with a formula that isn’t working what is the point? What is he even there for? Even against Slovakia they went 2-1 up then defended for their lives. He’s always done that. This guy talks about bravery but then acts like a coward. He might actually be deluded which would explain his decisions. I hope he will finally learn from the last game but I thought that the game before and he went right back to a losing formula again so we shall see.

 

Its a different opinion Liam thats all, you seem very offended by that.

 

Croatia weren't there for the taking in 2018, they were the better side and team on the day, simple.

 

Yes I can see there is something missing from the team but that doesnt mean its as simple as putting on Gordon on the left. Yeh it might work out ok but maybe that would open up another problem in terms of how Gordon covers the full back etc etc etc.

 

Most of my views are looking at the Southgate regime overall not just the past 4 games and he has proven that he can create a club mentality at international level and England have had more good days than bad days at tournaments under him than under most managers apart from Alf Ramsay/Bobby Robson. As i said its about results not style at this level and they speak for themselves. Reality is only one team can win a world cup or euro championship so success cant be measured on only winning it.

 

 

 

 

 

Its a different opinion Liam thats all, you seem very offended by that.

 

Croatia weren't there for the taking in 2018, they were the better side and team on the day, simple.

 

Yes I can see there is something missing from the team but that doesnt mean its as simple as putting on Gordon on the left. Yeh it might work out ok but maybe that would open up another problem in terms of how Gordon covers the full back etc etc etc.

 

Most of my views are looking at the Southgate regime overall not just the past 4 games and he has proven that he can create a club mentality at international level and England have had more good days than bad days at tournaments under him than under most managers apart from Alf Ramsay/Bobby Robson. As i said its about results not style at this level and they speak for themselves. Reality is only one team can win a world cup or euro championship so success cant be measured on only winning it.

 

The Croatia game was a strange one. They were a better team but we just accepted defeat. We saw the same yesterday too-my main issue with Southgate is his inability to change things when they’re clearly not working. This is a pattern, he’s not willing to make a bold choice early, instead he will wait for it to happen instead of being proactive. Yesterday was another classic example of this.

 

The team is unbalanced without the lack of a left footer or someone to stretch the play. It’s something I was worried about pre-tournament and it’s been evident in every game so far. The attack, is also unbalanced and it’s causing us issues. Not sure Kane or Bellingham are at full fitness too which while not Southgate’s fault, flogging them for 90 minutes continually is his fault! A lot of our issues occur from our build up- we can’t build play to create chance, and a huge part of that is our left side.

You gotta compare Southgate to Moyes or a manager of a lower prem team who simply isn’t good enough for a top job. Southgate is happy to be defensively set up and play on the break or with players that are tough to beat. Give him quality he doesn’t know what to do. Could Moyes get Man City playing like Pep does? Of course not, it’s not his forte, it’s above his station. He likes a certain style with a certain set of players it brought him some success but you saw at Man Utd he was out of his depth. Now Southgate is nowhere near as good as even Moyes. While everybody is talking about the host of attacking options he pining over Kalvin Phillips. He doesn’t have what it takes to manage world class players. This idea of obliterating teams, playing through them, it’s above his station. He wants to steal games. He’s happy with 0-0’s he’s a lower league prem manager mentally even though in practice he’d get them relegated like he already did to Middlesbrough. Surely England deserve better than that. So my issue with Southgate is he’s had three tournaments, the team has been awful for months he must know him and his coaching staff are out of their depth. He only has to watch that Spain match to see a real team playing and coached properly. Why stay? Why stay and force us to watch your losing formula? Resign or change but don’t go out playing dull football waiting for a decent team to knock us out. If he’s as brave as he claims then resign or do something different. This guy cannot be that oblivious m, he’s had cups thrown at him, he’s a meme now, every pundit and ex-player has spoken out, you can’t be that oblivious. We essentially have three games to win a tournament and his style is going to get us knocked out you can’t rely on a lucky last second goal against better teams. Do something very different or resign what has he got to lose? If he sticks with dull loseball it says a lot about him as a person not just an incompetent coach. But I think he will stick with it because he doesn’t know how to do anything else.