I believe it was yes. :(

I find them very disturbing too. It's like some kind of religion induced mass hysteria. :wacko:

according to the government the gps sites them as well within iraqi waters, the gps is accurate to within 10 metres... so the government wouldnt, couldnt lie about this simple fact... could they?

Anyone could lie. Guess it comes down to whether you believe the British Navy or the Iranian Navy.

Eugh I hate the Iranians. :arrr:

 

Know every single Iranian personally then do we...??

 

Watch what you say when you say sh!t like that mate.... <_< It's so easy to misunderstand a statement like that... I happen to know a fair few people of Iranian backgrounds who have no love for their Govt....

 

How about saying "I hate the Iranian Govt"....? That I have no issue with....

 

according to the government the gps sites them as well within iraqi waters, the gps is accurate to within 10 metres... so the government wouldnt, couldnt lie about this simple fact... could they?

 

What does that actually mean though Rob...? The figure mean nowt unless you actually happen to know about nautical positions in any great detail... And anyway, wouldn't this sort of thing be kept secret...? The Govt wont even release the details of the 'dodgy dossier' which sent us hurtling into Iraq, but now we're supposed to buy into their 'openness' and 'honesty' on this issue.... Please..... -_-

 

As I said in my earlier post anyone can say the incident took place at whatever co-ordinates they like. None of us sitting here can verify anything. All we can do is make a judgement as to which side we believe has provided accurate co-ordinates. They both can't be correct, one side is lying.

The British people will need to decide whether they believe the British Navy or the Iranian Navy. The Iranian people need to do likewise.

 

We will all have our own opinions on the matter.

I know this is shallow... but I'm thinking of trying to rescue the one on TV today myself.. Nathan something.... bloody gorgeous.... :P

Eugh I hate the Iranians. :arrr: I don't believe we were in their waters myself, though I guess we'll never know for sure until they're freed. It just makes me feel sick though when the detainees are being made to say all that drivel for the Iranian cameras and such. -_- And that big mass thing today with their PM at was pretty disturbing...

 

Well, I hope it makes you feel equally sick when intelligence officers basically kidnap people off the streets and "render" them to places like Guantanamo Bay or Bellmarsh fukkin' prison then.... WITHOUT charge, WITHOUT trial, and WITHOUT legal representation and for INDEFINITE PERIODS OF TIME. These guys have only been held in Iran for a week (and at least they actually KNOW what they're being charged with unlike most folks at Camp X-Ray...), some folks in Camp X-Ray have been there for FIVE FUKKIN' YEARS without any due legal process, you wanna talk about 'cruel and unusual' treatment.....???? I also hope you felt equally sick when our former Home Secretary David 'the c/unt' Blunkett basically gave a green light to torturing terror suspects ('suspects', as in people who aint actually been found actually guilty of a damn thing yet..... <_< )

 

I too dislike what is happening to these guys in Iran, but to focus almost entirely on this and just totally neglect the absolutely disgusting violations of human rights OUR OWN Govt is almost certainly guilty of, is complete hypocrisy as far as I'm concerned.... Every time I see one of these Govt bods go on about Iran violating the human rights of these sailors I just think "Pot calling the kettle black mate...".

 

We're breaking the boundaries of international law and then cry foul when other countries break them as well..... Well..... That's just bullsh!t if you ask me.... Rogue States..? We're living in one... Britannia used to "rule the waves", now it's "waiving the rules"....

What does that actually mean though Rob...? The figure mean nowt unless you actually happen to know about nautical positions in any great detail... And anyway, wouldn't this sort of thing be kept secret...? The Govt wont even release the details of the 'dodgy dossier' which sent us hurtling into Iraq, but now we're supposed to buy into their 'openness' and 'honesty' on this issue.... Please..... -_-

 

 

it means that if the gps has them plotted in iraqi waters then the british government are right and iran is wrong. though i know youd like the iranians to be right <_<.

 

it has nothing to do with nautical positions really, gps is accurate and can plot their exact position on the earths surface so they were either within iranian earth surface area or they werent!

it means that if the gps has them plotted in iraqi waters then the british government are right and iran is wrong. though i know youd like the iranians to be right <_<.

 

Well, you clearly haven't been listening to a damn word that I've said in this thread have you...? Twice now I have said that the Iraninan Govt are a bunch of "lying co**su**ers", or maybe you just missed that... What I am trying to point out however is that we are in no position to take any moral high ground over whether another country is "breaking the rules" or not, this country's broken so many rules over the past 4 years that frankly I am almost disgusted to even call myself British these days, I'm sure as hell embarrassed...., so I refer to myself as a European Scotsman now... Shame I cant actually get a passport to reflect this...

 

What I'd really like isn't for the Iranians to be right actually, because then that would mean that 15 sailors who were only following the orders of a corrupt Govt and Military authority to basically break international sovereignty laws by spying would be the ones getting fukked... The ones punished would not be the correct targets who gave those orders, only those poor sods forced to carry them out out of a misplaced sense of 'duty'....

 

No, I tell you what I would like mate.....

 

- A FULL apology to the people of Iraq made by our Govt and the US Govt

- The release of all documents pertaining to the "dodgy dossier" - ie the "45 Minute claim", the actual advice given by the Attorney General and the JIC

- A FULL apology to the people of THIS country for the lies, deceit and betrayal on the part of the Govt

- The arrest and war crimes trial of Tony Blair, Geoff Hoon, Alistair Campbell, George W Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and all other co-conspirators involved the mass murders of 25,000 Iraqi civilians

- The IMMEDIATE withdrawal of all UK troops from the region - ie, the WHOLE of the Middle East, not just Iraq.

- The dismantling of the entire Western Imperialistic war machine in the Middle East

- The IMMEDIATE confiscation of all of Israel's nuclear weapons (a lot of which are likely pointed AT Iran, so no real wonder they might want a Nuclear deterrant...)

- A FULL apology (and compensation) made by this Govt to the relatives of dead servicemen and women, young lives wasted for the 'glory' of Bush and B-Liar's "legacy".

- A more-than-generous compensation package for all servicemen and women who have been scarred, disfigured, been rendered handicapped or had limbs amputated or suffered Post-Traumatic stress because of this war..

- The release of all detainees from Guantanamo Bay and Bellmarsh Prison, OR all detainees actually be charged with an actual criminal offence and be put up for fair and open trial in a European or American court of law and to have all the rights that entails..

- The immediate end to the practice of kidnapping (oops, sorry "rendering"...) of people by Intelligence operatives to be spirited away to detention camps without trial or proper legal representation

- An immediate undertaking and signed agreement that America, UK nor their allies will allow the use of torture as a tool to extract information.

 

ONLY when all this occurs will we have any kind of moral authority to say a damn thing to Iran about what they get up to....

he he.... i like poking scott, it always gets a reaction :) ........which is good...

Know every single Iranian personally then do we...??

 

Watch what you say when you say sh!t like that mate.... <_< It's so easy to misunderstand a statement like that... I happen to know a fair few people of Iranian backgrounds who have no love for their Govt....

 

How about saying "I hate the Iranian Govt"....? That I have no issue with....

Ok, I dislike all Iranians who believe what their Government are doing is ok. And the Government.

Ok, I dislike all Iranians who believe what their Government are doing is ok.

 

Well, even then... That's no real different to Iranians hating all Brits who voted Labour in the last election.... :lol: Mind you, the election turnout was so fukkin' low (under 30% of the electorate I do believe..) at the last election, we kinda do have a minority Govt..... :lol:

 

Oh, and also bear in mind that people do tend to rally round their leaders when an aggressive, external threat presents itself regardless of how that Govt may be behaving.... The Iranians may not like their leaders, but I'm guessing they dislike the prospect of US/UK military action even less...., that's certainly the way my Iranian friends feel in any case...

well i'm looking at the bigger picture and i bet the bush admin are loving this, the longer it goes on for them the better, i bet george has called tony and asked him to drag it out as long as possible keep iran in the headlines and not make a deal yet for their release, give the british public another dose of negativity about iran so making the case for war easier

 

i have no idea what iran govt is doing :wacko: this is making them look bad adding fuel to the fire, they seem to be spooked and panicing by doing what they've done, they may even be paranoid that an invasion is coming soon cause i can't understand why they have acted in this way, it is playing into the bush admins hands, but the fact remains whatever happens diplomacy must win out!! why should violence be the only answer!? i'm not putting up another war of west Vs east f*** that!! no f***ing way!! all that destruction and death plus its going to put us the british public in danger from terrorists again cause we are so close to bush and his war hungry neocons

well i'm looking at the bigger picture and i bet the bush admin are loving this, the longer it goes on for them the better, i bet george has called tony and asked him to drag it out as long as possible keep iran in the headlines and not make a deal yet for their release, give the british public another dose of negativity about iran so making the case for war easier

 

i have no idea what iran govt is doing :wacko: this is making them look bad adding fuel to the fire, they seem to be spooked and panicing by doing what they've done, they may even be paranoid that an invasion is coming soon cause i can't understand why they have acted in this way, it is playing into the bush admins hands, but the fact remains whatever happens diplomacy must win out!! why should violence be the only answer!? i'm not putting up another war of west Vs east f*** that!! no f***ing way!! all that destruction and death plus its going to put us the british public in danger from terrorists again cause we are so close to bush and his war hungry neocons

 

You've pretty much hit the nail on the head there Perfecto... The Iranians have every right in the world to feel 'spooked'.. First, they have Bush including them in his "axis of evil" speech, then their neighbours get invaded... Add into the mix that Israel have more than likely got bloody nuclear weapons trained directly at Tehran as well, then this fukkin' naval warship just pops out of nowhere...... Fukkin' hell is it really paranoia.... ? As Kurt Cobain once said "Just because you're paranoid/Don't mean they're not after you..". Bush IS after Iran, of that there is no question.. If I was an Iranian living in Tehran, I may not like my Govt, but I sure as hell would want us to have a nuke.......

They have been released as a "gift" to the British people

they confirmed that they were certainly in iraqui waters, by 1.7 nautical miles, they knew their exact position by gps. iran were just doing this to cause sh1t... and they will get it.

Released sailors tell of ordeal

BBC News

 

Royal Navy personnel seized by Iran were blindfolded, bound and held in isolation during their 13 days in captivity, the crew have said.

They were lined up while weapons were cocked, making them "fear the worst", one of the 15 freed sailors revealed.

 

The crew were told that if they did not admit they were in Iranian waters when captured that they faced seven years in prison, a press conference heard.

 

Opposing their captors was "not an option," they said.

 

And after the 15 marines and sailors were seized they were subjected to random interrogation and rough handling, and faced constant psychological pressure, they said.

 

The navy has already begun a review of the circumstances surrounding the incident.

 

Royal Marine Captain Chris Air, 25, from Altrincham, Cheshire, said they had seconds to make a decision when confronted by the Iranians while carrying out a routine operation.

 

"We are aware that many people have questioned why we allowed ourselves to be taken in the first place and why we allowed ourselves to be shown by the Iranian authorities on television.

"Let me be absolutely clear, from the outset it was very apparent that fighting back was simply not an option".

"Had we chosen to do so then many of us would not be standing here today. Of that I have no doubts".

Had they resisted there would have been a fight they could not have won, he said.

 

"Fighting back would have caused a major international incident and an escalation of tension within the region," he said.

 

Iraqi waters

 

Two of the crew read out a prepared statement to the press conference at the Royal Marines Barracks at Chivenor, in north Devon.

 

Lieutenant Felix Carman, 26, of Swansea, south Wales, said the sailors and marines were on an operation on 23 March, 1.7 nautical miles from Iranian waters, when they were captured. This has been independently corroborated by UN officials.

 

Cpt Chris Air said the crew had made it clear they were on a "routine operation allowed under a UN mandate" but the Iranians had a "planned intent."

 

Their boat was surrounded by six boats and rammed and they were trained with heavy machine guns and weapons.

The officer in charge Lt Carman said they were taken to a prison in Tehran where they were stripped and dressed in pyjamas.

They were kept in stone cells, sleeping on blankets and held in isolation until the last few nights and frequently interrogated.

 

Lt Carman said they were given two choices.

 

"If we admitted we had strayed, we would be on a plane back to the UK soon. If we didn't we faced up to seven years in prison".

The only woman in the group, Leading Seaman Faye Turney, believed for at least four days that she was the only one still being held.

"Like all of us she has been exploited," Cpt Air said.

 

Royal Marine Joe Tindell told how they feared for their lives in prison.

 

"We had a blindfold and plastic cuffs, hands behind our backs, heads against the wall. Basically there were weapons cocking. Someone, I'm not sure who, someone said, I quote 'lads, lads I think we're going to get executed'."

"After that comment someone was sick and as far as I was concerned he had just had his throat cut."

 

Lt Carman said they were only allowed to gather for a few hours together, in the full glare of Iranian media.

He said they only learned they were going to be released when they watched the Iranian president on TV.

"There was a huge moment of elation," he said.

 

Iranian TV has said it expected some of the British sailors would come under pressure from the UK government when they returned home to change their story.

 

The navy's review will look at the the circumstances surrounding the incident and the wider rules of engagement for UK forces operating in the area.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Until now I have not commented on the above situation. But I will now.

 

I was always against the War in Iraq. I could not give two monkeys whether Saddam Hussain had Weapons of Mass Destruction or as it has turned out for B liar & the idiot Bush Jr - Whoppers of Mass Deception, as it was clearly instigated by the most disgraceful & discredited President of the USA in my lifetime to go and finish a battle his father (bottled) failed to do (when he at least had a debatably credible reason for do so).

 

No what I've resented all along is how it has been so blatantly obvious that Iran was & is the Middle East powderkeg to worry about as these latest events have proved.

 

However, for me the most criminal act of the world within the last decade was not 9/11, but the setting up of the (illegal in most people's minds whether you live in Australia, Andorra, ... Zambia or Zaire) Guantanamo Bay Prison Camp by the American's where people can be held in solitary confinement for years on end without legal representation. How can any citizen of the United States of America be proud of themselves when they have fundamentally lost any moral high ground by the setting up of this humanitarian abhor-ration?

 

 

 

Until now I have not commented on the above situation. But I will now.

 

I was always against the War in Iraq. I could not give two monkeys whether Saddam Hussain had Weapons of Mass Destruction or as it has turned out for B liar & the idiot Bush Jr - Whoppers of Mass Deception, as it was clearly instigated by the most disgraceful & discredited President of the USA in my lifetime to go and finish a battle his father (bottled) failed to do (when he at least had a debatably credible reason for do so).

 

No what I've resented all along is how it has been so blatantly obvious that Iran was & is the Middle East powderkeg to worry about as these latest events have proved.

 

However, for me the most criminal act of the world within the last decade was not 9/11, but the setting up of the (illegal in most people's minds whether you live in Australia, Andorra, ... Zambia or Zaire) Guantanamo Bay Prison Camp by the American's where people can be held in solitary confinement for years on end without legal representation. How can any citizen of the United States of America be proud of themselves when they have fundamentally lost any moral high ground by the setting up of this humanitarian abhor-ration?

 

Well put mate, here we are wringing our hands over what's happening to these sailors in Iran (which I dont deny was bad..), but do our Media or our Govt give a fukkin' toss about the human rights abuses going on in Camp X-Ray..? Bellmarsh..? Abu Ghraib..? Do they speak out against "rendition"...? Nah, they just go along with what ol' Georgie-boy says.... Hypocrites... <_<

 

I dont apologise for any of the things I've said in this thread, I still feel that we are totally out of order in our dealings with Iran (just what fukkin' business is it of ours what they want a Nuclear Program for anyway...? What about Israel, they got their nukes by incredibly duplicitous means, AND totally flying in the face of the UN and every non-proliferation treaty in existence.... <_< I really dont blame Iran for wanting nukes when such an obvious aggressive threat to their country exists...) and Iraq, and with the Middle East as a whole... Keeping a handful of sailors in captivity for a couple of weeks is REALLY small beer compared to the destruction, mayhem and chaos we have caused in the region....