Just my two cents, because I'm opinionated :P:

 

I can't chuffing wait :D I can't help but think that statements that pub's need smoke to maintain an atmosphere are at the least ludicrous. If people do wish to smoke, I'm not stopping them, but there's really no need to do it around people who don't want it near them. I don't see why any non-smoker should have to tolerate someone blowing smoke in their face, after they've made a conciouss decision to keep themselves healthy and their clothes smoke-smell-free. In all honesty, that's the biggest gripe for me ... I go to the local for a quick drink then emerge an hour later stinking to high hell, which does my tree in. Sure, people who don't smoke could choose not to go to pubs, but why should we? Surely if it's that important, smokers won't mind stepping outside for 2 minutes?

 

Anyway, i'm done :D

 

 

thast's EXACTLY the way I feel about you breeders dragging your beastly children out to pubs, restaurants, cinemas, on buses, trains and planes. WE have to suffer for YOUR pleasure.......

 

 

yeah cos kids are toxic arnt they!...lol. anyway, if people didnt breed YOU wouldnt have been born! you were a bratt to once...

 

however i agree totally that uncontroled brats running amok are a pest.

however i agree totally that uncontroled brats running amok are a pest.

 

 

More of a pest than smokers in a pub mate IMO... Today's uncontrolled feral chav brats are tomorrow's muggers, rapists, car thieves and drug dealers..... <_< <_<

 

 

I am still very sceptical about this 13% stuff, sounds to me like the propoganda of a lobby group that is in the pockets of the pro smoking groups, the majority of people in this country are non smokers so I would guess the number of non smokers who were boycotting pubs because of smoke is as great if not greater than the amount of smokers boycotting pubs now given smokers are a minority in the UK

 

I for one would only go to pubs if it was an emergency because of smoking and I am sure there were many like me, the amount of times I visited a pub in the last 12 months you can count on one hand and that was directly because of smoking and no other reason so I have big doubts about the credibility of this 13% stuff.

 

I shall now return to my exile but could not ignore this thread when was browsing yesterday and today :)

I am still very sceptical about this 13% stuff, sounds to me like the propoganda of a lobby group that is in the pockets of the pro smoking groups, the majority of people in this country are non smokers so I would guess the number of non smokers who were boycotting pubs because of smoke is as great if not greater than the amount of smokers boycotting pubs now given smokers are a minority in the UK

 

I for one would only go to pubs if it was an emergency because of smoking and I am sure there were many like me, the amount of times I visited a pub in the last 12 months you can count on one hand and that was directly because of smoking and no other reason so I have big doubts about the credibility of this 13% stuff.

 

I shall now return to my exile but could not ignore this thread when was browsing yesterday and today :)

 

Publicans are furious at this ban.... because, whilst the non-smokers are very vocal... they simply don't give pubs any business.

 

I've been down Cardiff Bay again this week... again, I was shocked how quiet the bars were. We're not talking backstreet pubs.. we're talking pubs in the heart of Cardiff's new bay area.... which up until 2nd April were ALL FULL... day and night.

 

Not only did the Welsh (dis)Assembly totally balls-up the introduction (information packs sent ON THE DAY of the ban - no staff training time, no prep time whatsoever), the companies supposedly supplying outdoor heaters and umbrellas are simply not coming up with the goods on time... the majority of bars are STILL waiting for their deliveries (placed 6 months ago in most cases)... and the ones who DO have the heaters are finding them a waste of money... people simply will not sit outside to smoke. Heater or no heater.

 

Also, our local workingmen's club have simply given up trying to accommodate their smokers (about 70-80% of their customers). Twice in the past fortnight they have built an outdoor shelter to house their smokers. Twice it has been rejected. And who pays for the re-build? Well it isn't the Welsh Assembly, I can tell you that. This already cash-strapped boozer simply can't afford a third attempt.... the 2nd one was erected to the Assembly guidelines... but was apparently just too close to the building itself (there isn't room to move it away any further). Of course, Mr Vega... me talking about workingmen's clubs to a true-blue Tory is like talking to Britney Spears about Schubert....

 

I, too, am sceptical about the 13% figures being touted about.

 

I reckon it's much higher.

I am still very sceptical about this 13% stuff, sounds to me like the propoganda of a lobby group that is in the pockets of the pro smoking groups, the majority of people in this country are non smokers so I would guess the number of non smokers who were boycotting pubs because of smoke is as great if not greater than the amount of smokers boycotting pubs now given smokers are a minority in the UK

 

I for one would only go to pubs if it was an emergency because of smoking and I am sure there were many like me, the amount of times I visited a pub in the last 12 months you can count on one hand and that was directly because of smoking and no other reason so I have big doubts about the credibility of this 13% stuff.

 

I shall now return to my exile but could not ignore this thread when was browsing yesterday and today :)

 

Well, I can only talk of my own personal experiences of when I went back to Scotland recently to find normally pretty busy pubs almost deserted, not many people out and about for a weekend either, I certainly remember the city centre areas being MUCH busier pre-ban... And now with Russ's post as well detailing his own experiences in Wales, if you are foolish enough to believe that this isn't gonna be a problem for the pub trade, then there's no point in even discussing it with you - you're simply refusing to acknowlege the facts here...

 

I'm not a smoker, I dont have a vested interest in trying to prove a point, a smoking ban will not affect me directly.. I am looking at this subjectively and seeing a potentially huge problem and I dont like being told what I can and cant do either by a bunch of fukkin' hypocite politician b/astards who never even had the guts to stop cigarette sponsorship of sporting events almost a decade back because one of their multi-millionnaire chums put in a call to Tony, oh, and there is the small matter of their little drinking den being somehow immune from this ban too, square that little circle mate... This is going to sign the death certificate for the traditional British pub culture, and before long every bloody pub in this country is gonna be a fukkin' Wetherspoons or Lloyds..... :puke2: :puke2: :puke2: All nice, safe and sanitised, for all the family....

nonsense scott. it will not kill the pub trade at all!

 

you object to the government telling you what you can and cannot do.... thats exactly what the hunting fraternity said! they were wrong too! all the rural job losses...

 

pubs have been losing more and more trade as peoples social lives are changing. from beer swilling mens clubs to family orientated pubs... why? cos that where the money now is as the traditional pub full of smokey fat beer swilling blokes is a thing of the past! only a fraction of people now smoke compared to the past, men are now spending more time with the family and drink wine instead of beer!

 

 

you want to know whats really killing the pub trade?... watch the next budget m8... why pay 'x' amount for a pint when you can go to the offie and get three times as much booze for your money.

 

but this is still immaterial.... other peoples smoke is offensive, period.

nonsense scott. it will not kill the pub trade at all!

 

Nonsense Rob... it willl.. in fact, it IS.

 

I suggest a visit to Cardiff, Dublin or Glasgow/Edinburgh... just to prove my point. The marked difference in every one of the bars and clubs in these 4 cities since the ban is nothing short of staggering.... yes, the air is pungent with the whiff of Pledge and stale ale, yes, you can get a drink quicker and do your hip hop-spinning dance moves all over the dance floors... because there simply isn't anyone IN these places anymore. Devoid of a shred of atmosphere - devoid of people. Smokers have simply decided to stay away... and whether you like it or not - smokers, in bars AND clubs are the majority. You babbling minnie-moaners protesting about us heinous smokers.... it's becoming apparent you spend too much time writing letters of complaint to the Daily Mail and reporting your neighbours for breathing to be going out doing things like socialising.....

 

I DON'T WANT family pubs. I DON'T WANT Beefeater style pubs. Family pubs are absolutely hideous things..... squawking brats and drunken parents.... no thanks.

 

This 'social change' you mention... what in a few weeks? Days? The pubs that were busy on 1st April.... suddently deserted after the ban on the 2nd? That's one speedy social change, Rob.... :rolleyes:

 

And this 'new man' bollox... Rob, what planet do you LIVE on? Whilst in Derby, you may be surrounded by these fragrant, new age wine-sipping men, I can assure you that in the real world.... pubs are busier than EVER. Or they WERE busier in Wales up til this ban.

Edited April 14, 200718 yr by russt68

I DON'T WANT family pubs. I DON'T WANT Beefeater style pubs. Family pubs are absolutely hideous things..... squawking brats and drunken parents.... no thanks.

 

This 'social change' you mention... what in a few weeks? Days? The pubs that were busy on 1st April.... suddently deserted after the ban on the 2nd? That's one speedy social change, Rob.... :rolleyes:

 

EXACTLY!!! I wasn't even talking about the Working Men's pubs particularly, I was on about the alternative venues/pubs which have a pretty much 50/50 gender split (ie, not just 'beer swilling blokes' Rob...) - not to mention a fairly similar smoker/non smoker split as well.. - which are taking a hit back in my home town , and they will in London as well well... In a six month space of time between home visits (one visit pre-ban and one post-ban) pubs in my home town went from being pretty busy to almost like a Wild West ghost town... Seriously, I just couldn't believe it... A Saturday night and half empty bars..... And, I'm totally with you mate, I DO NOT want to see our wonderful, diverse, pub culture become totally homogenised into a hellish Wetherspoons/Lloyds/Yates triad of sanitised "Family-Oriented Gastropubs", or worse yet, American-style "Sports Bars" or chavvy sh!tholes like "The Walkabout"..... Fukk THAT!!!!! <_< That aint an 'evolution' of our socialising patterns by any stretch of the imagination, it's sheer homogenisation.... It's a bit like tearing down a lovely Edwardian townhouse and building a fukkin' multi-storey block in its place....

 

You know Rob, for someone who talks about wanting to preserve British culture, you sure as hell are rather complacent about the impact of all this, do you seriously want to see our British pubs turned into bloody American or Australian-themed sports bars or ghastly Wetherspoons "Gastropubs" with their sh!tty, overpriced microwave meals...? If I want a pub lunch, I want to go to a local for some proper, cooked food, not some sh!tty chain which pops it in a bloody microwave for 5 minutes...... Bottom line though, people are staying away from pubs because they dont like being dictated to, whether it's smokers or their non-smoker friends (something you aint actually thought of I'll bet, the fact that mates will show a bit of solidarity with their smoker friends..). Bad enough that people have to pay ridiculous bar prices, but not even being allowed the right to choose whether or not to SMOKE either???? The phrase "straw that breaks the camel's back" springs to mind.... Well, expect lots of noisy, rowdy House parties going on til 3 or 4 am round your manor mate, that's alls I'm saying..... Enjoy...

I'm loving this debate.... This is what the Perspectives Forum should be about - strong, well-thought out opinions, and not being scared to stand one's corner and disagreeing with folk.... :)

 

This should be a place of discourse and debate, not some Love-In where everyone agrees with each other all the time...

i dont believe that all pubs will be the weatherspoons or family type places, there will always be the traditional pub...

 

ok... im not a big pub goer and ive not been to a club for yeeeaaarrrs (kind outa place..) so i cant really comment on current situations. maybe thats why im so careless about the smoking ban.. we will see whats what on july 1st. id be surprised if there was that much difference, and tbh if things are as gloomy as you two portray then where is the protests from wales/scotland?.. the only reports ive seen are that theres NO difference except in working mans clubs... clare was in a wmc the other night and only 4 out of a decent amount of customers were smoking... 4 less would hardly be a catastrophe!

 

im looking foreward to breathing smoke free air! :P

Rob...

 

all this talk of a 'success' simply isn't true. The propaganda machine would have you believe everythng's tickety boo, the ban has hardly been noticed, everyone's happy and even the smokers don't really mind.

 

The reality is that there have been record pub and club closures, alarming job losses, a downturn in trade like they couldn't even have imagined, and even non-smokers are staying away from the once-busy drinking holes.

 

There was the big boxing weekend last weekend in Cardiff.... thousands converged on the city. However, unlike other big events in the new stadium where every bar in the city centre is rammed.... they were all surprisingly empty.... it appeared most people attending simply left home later to go straight to the event rather than hang round Cardiff's many bars drinking.

 

Seriously, though... if you get a chance, visit Dublin or Edinburgh..... it's truly shocking the difference this ban has made.... even Dublin, with it's cobbled streets, Guinness pubs and rip-roaring atmosphere was..... gone. It's like the guts has been ripped out of the city. Every single venue, bar none, we visited..... dead.

 

The last time I heard propaganda as blatantly fake, perpetrated by a government quite clearly out of control, was Thatcher's Army's Nazi-style propaganda machine in the 1984 Miner's strike.....

 

Don't believe a word of it, Rob... whether you're a smoker or not.... this ban is having catastrophic effects on the licensing trade and we should ALL be extremely concerned. And, as Scott says, be prepared for all hell to break loose when the smokers in your areas avoid pubs and opt for rowdy houseparties instead... that's what everyone I know seems to be doing these days... mass-gathering house parties.

 

Still, a bit of drum'n'bass pounding though your walls at 4.30am won't give you lung cancer, will it?

Edited April 14, 200718 yr by russt68

Rob...

 

all this talk of a 'success' simply isn't true. The propaganda machine would have you believe everythng's tickety boo, the ban has hardly been noticed, everyone's happy and even the smokers don't really mind.

 

The reality is that there have been record pub and club closures, alarming job losses, a downturn in trade like they couldn't even have imagined, and even non-smokers are staying away from the once-busy drinking holes.

 

There was the big boxing weekend last weekend in Cardiff.... thousands converged on the city. However, unlike other big events in the new stadium where every bar in the city centre is rammed.... they were all surprisingly empty.... it appeared most people attending simply left home later to go straight to the event rather than hang round Cardiff's many bars drinking.

 

Seriously, though... if you get a chance, visit Dublin or Edinburgh..... it's truly shocking the difference this ban has made.... even Dublin, with it's cobbled streets, Guinness pubs and rip-roaring atmosphere was..... gone. It's like the guts has been ripped out of the city. Every single venue, bar none, we visited..... dead.

 

The last time I heard propaganda as blatantly fake, perpetrated by a government quite clearly out of control, was Thatcher's Army's Nazi-style propaganda machine in the 1984 Miner's strike.....

 

Don't believe a word of it, Rob... whether you're a smoker or not.... this ban is having catastrophic effects on the licensing trade and we should ALL be extremely concerned. And, as Scott says, be prepared for all hell to break loose when the smokers in your areas avoid pubs and opt for rowdy houseparties instead... that's what everyone I know seems to be doing these days... mass-gathering house parties.

 

Still, a bit of drum'n'bass pounding though your walls at 4.30am won't give you lung cancer, will it?

 

 

ok m8, i gues we will just have to wait and see!.... however there will be no drum n bass through my walls at 4am... otherwise me lad gets a kicking! lol... (its a long story... ;) )

ok... heres what people have said about it on net-weather....

 

"After 3 years to the exact day in Ireland the ban has worked great.

 

The reason is that (a) the pubs have adapted by building (tent like) outer (heated) areas for smokers and most importantly b. smokers really did want the ban too. "

 

 

"It seems to work ok up here (we've had a year of the ban already). Pubs are nicer, cleaner places to go into, nice carpets and better decor, etc. I'm a smoker but I'm quite happy to go out for a fag, you find that people sit outside a lot more too and I don't know why anyone is bothered by the ban. It is 100% an excellent move. "

 

"been no problems around here, and smirting is certainly a rather odd by-product. can't see how this restricts people's civil liberties really. freedom to give someone else cancer? huh? a doctor i spoke to recently reckons this measure will reduce the incidence of smoking related illnesses and deaths by a 'significant' amount."

 

" A smoking ban is good. I'm a smoker and I can't see fault with the ban. (except in the case of private clubs/functions)

 

I am a smoker but I have no right to impose my addiction on any other member of the public."

 

 

now when people from ireland and scotland are telling me this... and NO ONE on that thread even hinted at the 'calamity' that you and scott are on about.... is it any wonder that i doubt it!!! ...... now these are independant people telling me this, not the government, not the media.

 

 

 

ok... heres what people have said about it on net-weather....

 

"After 3 years to the exact day in Ireland the ban has worked great.

 

The reason is that (a) the pubs have adapted by building (tent like) outer (heated) areas for smokers and most importantly b. smokers really did want the ban too. "

"It seems to work ok up here (we've had a year of the ban already). Pubs are nicer, cleaner places to go into, nice carpets and better decor, etc. I'm a smoker but I'm quite happy to go out for a fag, you find that people sit outside a lot more too and I don't know why anyone is bothered by the ban. It is 100% an excellent move. "

 

"been no problems around here, and smirting is certainly a rather odd by-product. can't see how this restricts people's civil liberties really. freedom to give someone else cancer? huh? a doctor i spoke to recently reckons this measure will reduce the incidence of smoking related illnesses and deaths by a 'significant' amount."

 

" A smoking ban is good. I'm a smoker and I can't see fault with the ban. (except in the case of private clubs/functions)

 

I am a smoker but I have no right to impose my addiction on any other member of the public."

now when people from ireland and scotland are telling me this... and NO ONE on that thread even hinted at the 'calamity' that you and scott are on about.... is it any wonder that i doubt it!!! ...... now these are independant people telling me this, not the government, not the media.

 

 

very carefully chosen anti-smoking messages there, Rob. Maybe post the pro-smoking ones as a balance? The net-weather thread you quoted these from was titled 'Smoking Ban - What A Farce' and I counted rather a lot of messages against the ban, Rob... I suggest you have another look?

 

However, I was in Dublin just last year... went to virtually every single pub in the city.... I can assure you, there wasn't a single one with outdoor heating, tent-cover or tables..... quite where this person you quote lives I don't know... but it sure isn't Dublin.

 

And again, pop into any Glasgow or Edinburgh pub.... 18 months after the ban - people are STILL moaning about it (the ones who've bothered going out at all).

Okay, I am a non-smoker and smoke to a non-smoker [well myself anyway] is one of the most annoying things when you are out.

Yes it's not good for you, but it also stings my eyes and makes everything smell, as well as the butts everywhere [including as someone earlier said, shoved into your arm at times].

 

I went back home for Easter, back to Wales, and went out clubbing and it was actually great, all my 'social' smoking friends completely agreed with me, saying how they gave up smoking completely now because of the ban.

For me being a non-smoker, the ban is a great thing.

 

I can however see how for smokers it is annoying, having to go outside, under those tent things, with the benches and ashtrays [yet still throwing the butts on the floor which tends to be right by the entrance of the building great]. And in my area there really was a lot of outside covering/seating for the smokers.

I cannot wait for the ban, I counting down the days. I only wished they woulda banned the smokin on the streets and stuff. When people blow thier ciggarette smoke in my face, I wanna punch them in theirs lol

very carefully chosen anti-smoking messages there, Rob. Maybe post the pro-smoking ones as a balance? The net-weather thread you quoted these from was titled 'Smoking Ban - What A Farce' and I counted rather a lot of messages against the ban, Rob... I suggest you have another look?

 

However, I was in Dublin just last year... went to virtually every single pub in the city.... I can assure you, there wasn't a single one with outdoor heating, tent-cover or tables..... quite where this person you quote lives I don't know... but it sure isn't Dublin.

 

And again, pop into any Glasgow or Edinburgh pub.... 18 months after the ban - people are STILL moaning about it (the ones who've bothered going out at all).

 

 

of course i chose those posts carefully!!! they are the ones that oppose what you n scott are saying m8! non of the pro-smoking posts were anywhere near as strong as the claims that you two are making . :)

of course i chose those posts carefully!!! they are the ones that oppose what you n scott are saying m8! non of the pro-smoking posts were anywhere near as strong as the claims that you two are making . :)

 

 

You're just picking and choosing mate... I can only go from what I see.. And what I saw between my home visits was a marked difference in pub-going activity.. You can put up all the net quotes you like, it wont alter the evidence of my own eyes, and I sure as hell never saw any of those 'heating tents' either, and this was in February... And, as usual, the posts just conform to this fallacy of passive smoking=lung cancer like it's taken-for-granted fact. It's rubbish, it only happens in very rare circumstances... I fell for that one too, then I actually looked at the evidence, in most cases passive smoking might lead to respitory problems - of the NON-terminal (such as asthma, etc) variety, but you'd have to be going out to smoky pubs every night for years for it to have an effect... Facts are, if you live in a big polluted city, you're more likely to get asthma or emphysema or a decreased lung capacity from bloody CAR EXHAUST FUMES as you are from people smoking.... <_< But of course, the Govt aint willing to admit that one are they.....?

 

I can be in a pub full of smokers and it doesn't bother me, some days I walk from my house to the bloody TUBE STATION about five minutes away and I actually feel a bit short of breath because of ALL THE FUKKIN' CARS pukeing out their carbon monoxide...... <_< That can't be right, and I am sick of hearing people justify it...

It's a little different though, isn't it?? ^^

 

We NEED cars to maintain our lifestyle and live our lives .. the side effects ARE bad, and shouldn't happen, but what can you do? On the other hand, no-one NEEDS to smoke?