you're getting good, jupiter.... :P ;)

 

My cousin was talking about an elderly guy who goes to his local workingman's club today... this guy always goes to the club because it's the only place he goes, and the people there are the only people he sees... literally. This guy fought in World War 2 and various other worldwide battles Britain created in his time in the army, and he smokes.... he was saying today how he'd have to stop going out now, as he'd never have a Guinness minus a ciggy... and he said to my cousin "we supposedly fought that war for freedom, feedom in our own country, for our human rights and democracy.... and now after fighting for those priveliges... I'm being told I can't have my last pleasure... a fag with a pint. Call that democracy?".

 

How true that is.

 

How can we oppose the House of Commons law? Anyone know how to set up a petition?

You know, I don't really care if completely smoking and completely non-smoking pubs were set up. People who strongly objected to inhaling cigarette smoke (as I do) could choose to socialise in the non-smoking ones and those who want to smoke can go elsewhere. Fine. And it's not just the smell. I get streaming eyes too. I can't breathe properly. I have rights as an individual as well. The right to breathe clean air when I go out at night. Not to mention passive smoking which I'm guessing you don't believe is real. But I do believe it is real. And it's my right to hold that belief just as it's your right not to.

 

And yes, I do agree with the House of Commons situation. The ban should apply equally to them (if indeed it's the same legislation that applies to Scotland whereby smoking in all enclosed spaces is prohibited).

 

The loophole they've basically come up with is that because Westminster is a 'Palace' then the ban shouldn't apply to them... Maybe that's true, but the Politicians should be thinking more about how it makes them look in the eyes of the people, the electorate.... Mind you, if over 2 million people marching against war didn't make them change their minds..... -_-

 

As for your statement about "breathing clean air" when you go out, well, I presume that means you would be a proponent on a ban on cars then..... Or aint you bothered about how carbon monoxide emissions effect your health..... "Clean Air??" no such thing, not for a long time, not since before the Industrial Revolution actually....

 

And yeah, I do believe that passive smoking can affect your health, but hey, so does breathing in fukkin' car exhaust fumes and general air pollution, of which there is a LOT of, especially in big cities.....

Well, I wouldn't deliberately sit breathing in car exhaust fumes in an enclosed space for hours on end if that's what you mean. But as I live about 35 miles from the nearest city in the middle of an isolated moor I admit car exhaust fumes are not really a big problem for me. All I want to do is go out to my local, sit having a few drinks without breathing cigarette smoke. Is that really so much to ask?

what would you do if Robbie came and sat next to you and lit up? Tell him to move because it's affecting your health? :P

No. I'd buy a gas mask and persevere. :P ;)

 

 

Night. B)

Well, I wouldn't deliberately sit breathing in car exhaust fumes in an enclosed space for hours on end if that's what you mean. But as I live about 35 miles from the nearest city in the middle of an isolated moor I admit car exhaust fumes are not really a big problem for me. All I want to do is go out to my local, sit having a few drinks without breathing cigarette smoke. Is that really so much to ask?

 

Doesn't matter where you live, it effectively amounts to the same thing... Car exhaust fumes are toxic poison, as is cigarette smoke, both have detrimental effects to health... You cant be against one without being against the other... And I could turn the question back on you - is it too much to ask that a person can go down to their local and engage in a perfectly legal activity in an adult environment....?

 

Carbon monoxide is NOT comparable to second-hand smoke. To associate them is aburd; it's like saying "well cyanide kills and so do cheeseburgers." Breathing car exhaust can kill you within 3 minutes.

eh?.... ive not removed any post.... ive seen nothing that warrented deletion m8, and if i did id have pm'd you or whoever with a reason..

 

smokers are certainly the minority in the pubs i frequent, just ordinary pubs found in the suburbs/countryside...

russ.... your post isnt in the trash can... (mods have access to view what topics have been removed). dunno where it went m8.

someone said that a non-drinker wouldn't stop all other drinking around them just because they didn't like it - very true

 

but by the same token - a drinker wouldn't force non-drinkers- including children to drink!!!

 

 

Whilst smoking remains legal I consider the blanket ban to be draconian - however, from a purely selfish view I look forward to going to a smoke free pub.

 

I shall be frequenting a number of establishments this evening and will undertake some detailed calculations on ratios of smokers ;)

 

unfortunately I predict my new top & new hair do will stink by the time I get home and my children will complain bitterly in the morning :(

Edited March 31, 200718 yr by ICR

Carbon monoxide is NOT comparable to second-hand smoke. To associate them is aburd; it's like saying "well cyanide kills and so do cheeseburgers." Breathing car exhaust can kill you within 3 minutes.

 

Exactly, carbon monoxide will kill you a lot quicker than second hand smoke ever could... That was kinda the point I was really trying to make... People who bang on about smokers "polluting their lungs" wont do or say sh!t about what cars do to the environment and to us... I was basically replying to the whole "I want to breathe clean air" argument... My reply is basically "become an anti-car environmental activist if you want to breathe 'clean air' then...." The contribution smokers make to polluting our atmosphere, and by extension our health, is pretty damned minimal IMO compared to what cars and big industrial manufacturing processes are doing... Take a look at the smog clouds in big cities, you think it's people smoking that's creating that....??

 

By the way though, I was referring mainly to passive, everyday breathing in of car exhaust fumes anyway mate... By your three minutes argument, I presume you're talking about three minutes continual breathing in of car exhaust fumes, as in sitting in your car and connecting a hosepipe from the exhaust to the inside of the car.....

 

I dont think it's an absurd comparison at all, we passively breathe in this sh!t every day and dont seem to think anything of it, and then get all huffy about someone lighting up fag halfway across a pub... Now that is the the absurd thing if you ask me.....

someone said that a non-drinker wouldn't stop all other drinking around them just because they didn't like it - very true

 

but by the same token - a drinker wouldn't force non-drinkers- including children to drink!!!

 

Smokers who have got kids seriously have to think about what they're doing, very true.. And most do to be fair, I've got a couple of mates who have kids and smoke and they are very conscious about not smoking anywhere near the kids, they go outside the house to do it... Mind you, there'll probably be some nanny law that'll turn them into criminals because 'outside their house' is technically in 'public'.... <_< <_<

 

you are showing your ignorance here dude, you cant just go to calais to stock up on ciggys. i go regularly to calais for wine and they dont care about the ammount of wine you buy but are very strict on the tobacco.. you try smuggling extra ciggys past these professional bull$h!tsniffers !!!!

Approx 1/4 of all cigarettes smoked in the UK aren't bought legally. They must be from somewhere....

Exactly, carbon monoxide will kill you a lot quicker than second hand smoke ever could... That was kinda the point I was really trying to make... People who bang on about smokers "polluting their lungs" wont do or say sh!t about what cars do to the environment and to us... I was basically replying to the whole "I want to breathe clean air" argument... My reply is basically "become an anti-car environmental activist if you want to breathe 'clean air' then...." The contribution smokers make to polluting our atmosphere, and by extension our health, is pretty damned minimal IMO compared to what cars and big industrial manufacturing processes are doing... Take a look at the smog clouds in big cities, you think it's people smoking that's creating that....??

 

 

no comparison though... a pub in an enclosed environment, so a small amount of smoke is very noticeable. ok in the larger cities car exhausts can be a problem under certain weather types but the vast majority of us dont live in the middle of a congested city! i would be the first to complain IF carbon monoxide was a problem. besides travel for most is a necessity, smoking ciggys simply isnt... its a choice.

no comparison though... a pub in an enclosed environment, so a small amount of smoke is very noticeable. ok in the larger cities car exhausts can be a problem under certain weather types but the vast majority of us dont live in the middle of a congested city! i would be the first to complain IF carbon monoxide was a problem. besides travel for most is a necessity, smoking ciggys simply isnt... its a choice.

 

So, if you die or get a respitory problem from carbon monixide poisoning then that would be perfectly okay with you because it is 'necessary'...?? :wacko: Mate, pollution is pollution, I dont care if it's 'necessary' or 'choice' or not, the sh!t is killing you, giving you respitory illnesses, etc regardless of its 'necessity'..... I'm pointing out a double standard here in the whole thinking process behind this anti-smoking measure, and I reckon it's pretty damn clear... All those folks who lived near the Chernobyl nuclear reactor weren't living in a 'congested city' either bear in mind, didn't stop them being killed or given cancers by mankind's utter stupidity, selfishness and total lack of respect for nature though did it.....?

So, if you die or get a respitory problem from carbon monixide poisoning then that would be perfectly okay with you because it is 'necessary'...?? :wacko: Mate, pollution is pollution, I dont care if it's 'necessary' or 'choice' or not, the sh!t is killing you, giving you respitory illnesses, etc regardless of its 'necessity'..... I'm pointing out a double standard here in the whole thinking process behind this anti-smoking measure, and I reckon it's pretty damn clear... All those folks who lived near the Chernobyl nuclear reactor weren't living in a 'congested city' either bear in mind, didn't stop them being killed or given cancers by mankind's utter stupidity, selfishness and total lack of respect for nature though did it.....?

 

 

eh? whats chernobyl got to do with it?... scott you are clouding the issue and only picking out points that suit your position. what are the chances of me or anyone dying from co poisoning? and what are the chances of dying from the effects of second hand smoke?... travel IS a necessity and co ISNT a significant threat to life as its outside and not in an enclosed environment! when was the last time you or anybody complained about their clothers stinking of car fumes? ... theres simply NO comparison , wether or not you like it they are the facts!

 

the polution issue though is a different matter.

well, it's hit Wales...and of course, it's gone down like a lead balloon.

 

I was down Cardiff Bay this week, for 2 days..... usually bustling pubs.... far fom busy. Usually busy cafes.... all but empty. And ALL the publicans moaning about the shoddy introduction of the ban... every single bar I visited (there were a few) hadn't received their umbellas OR heaters for outside due to a 'backlog'... there weren't ANY available nationwide :o :blink: .... hence smokers simply not staying or buying anything. Also, the Mein Kampf-like smoking ban literature for all these publicans arrived.... on the morning of the ban.

 

One of the Welsh news programmes ran a smoking ban special on Monday, and one of Rhodri Morgan's sleazy little cohorts from the Welsh (dis)Assembly was being interviewed on there.... smug as hell, and being heckled outside the window as he spoke.... when challenged about the smoking ban by the interviewer, who made a valid point re. the nation's health, that the Assembly are so worried about smoking, yet seem blissfully ignorant to the destruction alcohol was causing in society.... he answered "Ah... but one thing at a time...."

 

Just as we thought - get ready for alcohol to be the next 'big issue'... they've pissed off all the smokers... it's the drinkers next..... and I'll be just as smug (more, obviously) as the anti-smokers are right now when alcohol will be phased out from public places before too long. Can't WAIT actually. :D

no comparison between alcohol and fags.... you can avoid alcohol, even alcoholics if you so chose, you cant avoid fag smoke!

 

on tv the only places to suffer from the ban where the ban is already running are working mens clubs..

 

pubs this week have been quieter then usual here, clares a barworker, and the pubs weve visited were quieter then normal this week.

Just as we thought - get ready for alcohol to be the next 'big issue'... they've pissed off all the smokers... it's the drinkers next..... and I'll be just as smug (more, obviously) as the anti-smokers are right now when alcohol will be phased out from public places before too long. Can't WAIT actually. :D

 

alcohol is already banned on streets / parks round here. Lots of signs in park opposite my house. Also pub beer gardens strictly controlled. In the centre of Manchester old pubs in the "Shambles Square" that always had tables outside now have very strict lines around them with big warning signs about crossing the line.

 

To be perfectly honest tho when out in the centre of Manchester last week I found the hoards of drunk teenagers - classic binge drink fodder - far more annoying that any smokers I encountered. (maybe I am just getting too old to leave the house :rofl: )

you can avoid alcohol, even alcoholics if you so chose, you cant avoid fag smoke!

Not if they're coming at you with an ashtray or something!