no comparison between alcohol and fags.... you can avoid alcohol, even alcoholics if you so chose, you cant avoid fag smoke!

 

on tv the only places to suffer from the ban where the ban is already running are working mens clubs..

 

pubs this week have been quieter then usual here, clares a barworker, and the pubs weve visited were quieter then normal this week.

 

Sorry mate, you're wrong in your first part, you try to avoid the binge drunks on any given weekend, fukkin' near impossible... And as ICR correctly points out, binge drunks are FAR more obnoxious than any smoker, and more likely be prone to committing acts of violence as well (ever hear of a "violent smoker"...? Thought not...).

 

You just cant see it can you mate - this is gonna KILL the pub trade in this country, however you feel about smoking (and, as I say I dont smoke, but even I can see what a stupid idea this is)... You of all people should be concerned about this, Pub Culture is part of our history, our cultural heritage that the 'Nu Labour' Fascists are destroying purely for their own self-aggrandisement.... You've said it yourself "pubs we've visited were quieter than normal"... Well, if that continues, a LOT of pub workers are gonna be losing their jobs mate, perhaps even Clare... Think about that one...

tbh id sooner get hasstled by some drunk then breathe in toxins from others smoke, drunks dont offend me as much as smoke does...i can avoid drunks! i walk away!

 

i dont believe that the ban will kill the pub trade, it hasnt elsewhere.

 

i do believe though that there should be smokers pubs as an option.

 

russ wax's lyrical about some old boy in a working mans club who fought for democracy, but the majority of us DONT smoke! and citing an old guy from a mens working club for support is rather bizarre as they are probably the most homophobic group of people ive ever met!!!

 

i detest the smell of smoke, im glad the ban will come in!

 

ps... clare will not be in bar-work for long, she has much higher aspirations :)

i dont believe that the ban will kill the pub trade, it hasnt elsewhere.

russ wax's lyrical about some old boy in a working mans club who fought for democracy, but the majority of us DONT smoke! and citing an old guy from a mens working club for support is rather bizarre as they are probably the most homophobic group of people ive ever met!!!

ps... clare will not be in bar-work for long, she has much higher aspirations :)

 

it HAS in Ireland AND Scotland.... I suggest you visit the once-busy Dublin.... you'll be shocked. And the latest figures show that, in 2 years, 13% of all bars and clubs SHUT..... a MASSIVE increase. That's over 1 in 10?!?!?!?!

 

Still believe the licensing trade isn't being slaughtered by this ban?

 

And the old guy in the workingmen's club.... what on earth has homophobia got to do with a smoking ban? I'd imagine all the miners I marched for in 1984 wouldn't be too fond of repeated plays of Bronski Beat's Greatest Hits or a furtive gob-job behind the coal sheds, either, Rob... does that make me support their cause any less?

 

And your comment re Clare's profession was a bit patonising, I thought..... it's a bloody hard job working in or running a pub.... a mentally tough one, too.

 

numbers in pubs has been dropping for years though russ.. why should the majority in a democracy put up with the filth from the minority?.. ive told you before, i find being subjected to other peoples smoke the most offensive thing that could happen to me on a day to day basis. if you want to inhale that filth into your body, go ahead, just dont expect others to join in! why should we? what right have you got to do that to me? :)

numbers in pubs has been dropping for years though russ.. why should the majority in a democracy put up with the filth from the minority?.. ive told you before, i find being subjected to other peoples smoke the most offensive thing that could happen to me on a day to day basis. if you want to inhale that filth into your body, go ahead, just dont expect others to join in! why should we? what right have you got to do that to me? :)

 

So, you find other people's smoking to be offensive, but are perfectly happy to tolerate other people's noxious car exhaust fumes on a daily basis because the absolutely insane amount of cars clogging up the roads in this country is somehow 'necessary' (which I personally do not believe for a minute tbh.. I reckon we could easily cut down on about half of the cars on the roads at any given time).... Poison is poison mate, so either accumulated car exhaust fumes and other pollutants pumped out into the atmosphere are gonna kill you, or accumulated second hand smoke is... Either way, you're dead....

So, you find other people's smoking to be offensive, but are perfectly happy to tolerate other people's noxious car exhaust fumes on a daily basis because the absolutely insane amount of cars clogging up the roads in this country is somehow 'necessary' (which I personally do not believe for a minute tbh.. I reckon we could easily cut down on about half of the cars on the roads at any given time).... Poison is poison mate, so either accumulated car exhaust fumes and other pollutants pumped out into the atmosphere are gonna kill you, or accumulated second hand smoke is... Either way, you're dead....

 

 

YAWN...

 

like ive already said, IF i was physically affected by car fumes then yes i would object, BUT IM NOT. not all of us live in the big city m8, it aint a problem in derbys suburbs!. there is NO simularity between being in a small enclosed room and being outside in the wind! besides travel is a necessity, smoking isnt, simple.

 

whilst i agree that many car journeys are not needed, travel in general is, and is not the topic of conversation here!

 

it matters not how much people argue against the ban, or for the ban, fag smoke is an obnoxious unpleasant and harmful substance that i find offensive and i do not want to inhale.

YAWN...

 

like ive already said, IF i was physically affected by car fumes then yes i would object, BUT IM NOT. not all of us live in the big city m8, it aint a problem in derbys suburbs!. there is NO simularity between being in a small enclosed room and being outside in the wind! besides travel is a necessity, smoking isnt, simple.

 

whilst i agree that many car journeys are not needed, travel in general is, and is not the topic of conversation here!

 

it matters not how much people argue against the ban, or for the ban, fag smoke is an obnoxious unpleasant and harmful substance that i find offensive and i do not want to inhale.

 

It's irrelevant whether or not you live in a big city, pollution effects the planet as a whole... Hello... the hole in the Ozone Layer..???? Seriously doubt that was cause by people smoking a fag.... The reason why I brought all this up in the first place was simply because it kinda made me laugh when people talked about "wanting to breathe clean air", as if that really exists in a modern age with pollution so rife... I just think that some people should be just as vociferous in their objections to other things that are fukkin' up the air we breathe...

 

It's irrelevant whether or not you live in a big city, pollution effects the planet as a whole... Hello... the hole in the Ozone Layer..???? Seriously doubt that was cause by people smoking a fag.... The reason why I brought all this up in the first place was simply because it kinda made me laugh when people talked about "wanting to breathe clean air", as if that really exists in a modern age with pollution so rife... I just think that some people should be just as vociferous in their objections to other things that are fukkin' up the air we breathe...

 

irrelevant to wether or not we live in a big city????

seriously m8, you ought to get out more, leave the big city behind.... ive just been out working, marking out a 400m 8 lane running track and the air quality is superb! fresh, clean air in a warm strong sun... which is probably why smoke effects me so much...im just not used to it! the air here in derby just isnt polluted, well, not so youd notice anyway (im sure there are minute quantities of pollutants). as for the hole in the ozone layer... so what? its yet another misnomer that we created it. the ozone layer just like the climate, has always varied long before we started polluting the atmosphere.

 

air pollution though is another subject, and i for one am all for cleaning up or act, i was in freinds of the earth in the 80's and campaigned vigorously against air pollution, lead in petrol, cfc's as propellants... but tbh we are wasting our time as the third world beltches out more and more it makes our saving worthless.

 

and tbh it makes no difference wether or not i do pollute, that doesnt directly effect me in the same way cigarette smoke does!!! i wouldnt do it if it did!

I don't smoke myself probably because i'm 15 but that's no excuse, any way different topic, i am glad wales has taken the step to beat the smoking ban, but before England, NEVERRR :lol: well it's happened now, the only place smokers can go now (in ireland and wales) is in their homes -_- which is where it should be or not at all :)

irrelevant to wether or not we live in a big city????

seriously m8, you ought to get out more, leave the big city behind.... ive just been out working, marking out a 400m 8 lane running track and the air quality is superb! fresh, clean air in a warm strong sun... which is probably why smoke effects me so much...im just not used to it! the air here in derby just isnt polluted, well, not so youd notice anyway (im sure there are minute quantities of pollutants). as for the hole in the ozone layer... so what? its yet another misnomer that we created it. the ozone layer just like the climate, has always varied long before we started polluting the atmosphere.

 

air pollution though is another subject, and i for one am all for cleaning up or act, i was in freinds of the earth in the 80's and campaigned vigorously against air pollution, lead in petrol, cfc's as propellants... but tbh we are wasting our time as the third world beltches out more and more it makes our saving worthless.

 

and tbh it makes no difference wether or not i do pollute, that doesnt directly effect me in the same way cigarette smoke does!!! i wouldnt do it if it did!

 

Leave the big city...? Nah, sod that... I;ve been to the country often enough, nice enough place but I wouldn't want to live there.... Smells of horse p*** and cow sh!t with lots of inbred yokels wandering around..... :lol: And so bloody DULL as well.... You paint such a utopian picture of Derby, but isn't it a fairly large-ish city itself...? On a par with Norwich or Reading I would've thought....

 

So, you stopped being in "Friends of the Earth" because you didn't think there was any point..? Oh, Rob, there's always a point to campaigning for something you believe in.... You just got old and sold out mate, like all the Hippies do.... :P :lol: :lol:, only kidding.... And I'm still not convinced that we're not contributing in some way to climate change... All these experts who are coming out of the woodwork to dispute the Greenhouse Effect, well, most of them are getting research grants from Govts, corporations, etc.... IE, they're being paid by the people who are doing the polluting.... I'm highly suspicious of their motives for their 'research'....

 

Back on track though - I dont feel that I have the right to tell another mature adult person that they cant smoke in a bar or a pub.. It's not on, really... Pubs are not kids' playgrounds or even restaurants, they are places where, if you go, you should expect certain activities to take place.... People are there to relax, and a fag helps with that relaxation, a pub without smoke is like sex without an orgasm...

Leave the big city...? Nah, sod that... I;ve been to the country often enough, nice enough place but I wouldn't want to live there.... Smells of horse p*** and cow sh!t with lots of inbred yokels wandering around..... :lol: And so bloody DULL as well.... You paint such a utopian picture of Derby, but isn't it a fairly large-ish city itself...? On a par with Norwich or Reading I would've thought....

 

the countryside is beautiful m8.. i detest the city and would sooner smell horse/cow doos anyday then fumes! lol.. its NEVER dull.... not if you are into nature... i love seeing the changing seasons with the sights and smells, the birdsong...

 

derby is nowt special, far from it! lol, and i guess it is about the size of norwich... so?.. the city might be a smelly polluted place but the suburbs arnt!

the countryside is beautiful m8.. i detest the city and would sooner smell horse/cow doos anyday then fumes! lol.. its NEVER dull.... not if you are into nature... i love seeing the changing seasons with the sights and smells, the birdsong...

 

derby is nowt special, far from it!

 

I agree with the last bit lol :P

 

Kill all birds, bird song my arse.

My mate manages a goth/alternative pub in Camden, and he's fukkin' DREADING this ban hitting him, because more than half the bloody patrons of the place light up... His pub is seriously gonna take a dump, and it'll likely close down..... <_<

 

Scott you're talking about London here, I HIGHLY DOUBT that his pub will close down I think you're talking bollocks there mate. If my boss's ain't worried about this ban (coming from a village pub prob brings in a few grand a day) I doubt a pub in London would be worried either.

 

Both my boss's smoke and live there only me and another lad don't smoke on the bar, we are looking forward to this ban, now I've stopped I'm the worst cunt ever. I never wanted it to be banned but now I do cos I have to work with it and I hate it, I shout at people if they smoke at the bar (There is big fukk off signs saying 'No smoking at the bar') they should respect that but they don't that's why I want a ban, cos near enough all of them are ignorent bast*rds. Not to mention I hate one of my boss's.

 

I also wanna ban kids too. Vile little things.

And your comment re Clare's profession was a bit patonising, I thought..... it's a bloody hard job working in or running a pub.... a mentally tough one, too.

 

I found that too, it was like I was made to be right at the bottom.

Scott you're talking about London here, I HIGHLY DOUBT that his pub will close down I think you're talking bollocks there mate. If my boss's ain't worried about this ban (coming from a village pub prob brings in a few grand a day) I doubt a pub in London would be worried either.

 

Both my boss's smoke and live there only me and another lad don't smoke on the bar, we are looking forward to this ban, now I've stopped I'm the worst cunt ever. I never wanted it to be banned but now I do cos I have to work with it and I hate it, I shout at people if they smoke at the bar (There is big fukk off signs saying 'No smoking at the bar') they should respect that but they don't that's why I want a ban, cos near enough all of them are ignorent bast*rds. Not to mention I hate one of my boss's.

 

I also wanna ban kids too. Vile little things.

 

Well, fair enough then, smoking at the bar should be banned then, because people have to work there, but elsewhere in the pub/club, no... I aint gonna budge on this, I dont fee that the Govt has ANY right to tell us what to do and to nanny us, bottom line... If that makes me a bit of a bolshie git, then fair enough... And, the the pub in question has had threats before of being closed down and sold off to developers, but the sheer profits the place makes made the owner think twice, if business does tail off even to a fairly significant degree because of this ban, the owner might just decide to cut his losses... There's other factors here that you aint aware of Clare, but a smoking ban might precipitate a loss in business which may lead to the place being sold off...

but the nations drinking habits are changing anyway... i very much doubt that this ban will be the disaster that smokers declare it will be!

Back on track though - I dont feel that I have the right to tell another mature adult person that they cant smoke in a bar or a pub.. It's not on, really...

 

WHY?... if a mature adult started spouting racist or homophobic views would you just sit back and take it?.. ive stated before that i find fag smoke MORE offensive as it effects my health and follows me home in my lungs/eyes/throat and on my clothes.... at least offensive language is over with in a moment, plus i can leave it behind. it might not bother you but it does bother others.

but the nations drinking habits are changing anyway... i very much doubt that this ban will be the disaster that smokers declare it will be!

 

Mate, aint you even looking at the statistics as russ has pointed out - a 13% downturn since the ban was introduced in the places it has been... This is a disaster for the trade, you just cannot reconcile that fact... Of course people's drinking habits are changing - the sodding Govt is forcing people to basically have house parties instead of going down the pub... The only way publicans are gonna recoup their losses is to raise the prices - AGAIN... Which will probably mean more people saying "naah, sod it, let's go down the offie....".

 

WHY?... if a mature adult started spouting racist or homophobic views would you just sit back and take it?..

 

I'd definitely challenge them over it, and if they started getting all aggressive, well, I know the bouncers at my local pretty well and they'd just chuck them out and they'd probably get barred, and rightly so, they're being out of order.. People who generally spout these sorts of things loudly and obnoxioiusly, are looking for trouble, looking to pick a fight, a pub does not need someone like that, especially not the pubs I frequent, people who come in and stir sh!t are generally the chavs or footie supporters who ignore the dress code and just try to come in looking to start some trouble because they are scum, simple as... Someone sitting down quietly with their mates and lighting up a fag is not actually causing trouble to anyone, you may not like it for your own reasons, but they're not being aggressive or picking a fight with the regulars are they..? Totally different mate...

 

Oh and just for the record, in your last post when you claimed that you could easily avoid obnoxious drunks - wrong... You're kind of assuming that they wont take just try and chuck a bottle or a glass at your head regardless of whether you ignore them, they;ll do it just because they are p!sshead chav scum and they want to do it, if you walk away, they'll likely take exception to the fact and follow you.... I'm sorry but I've never heard of nicotine or tobacco fuelling a fight or a violent bit of ABH or a sexual assault.... Pissed-up lager louts however........ The facts are 90% of all violent assaults are fuelled by binge drinking, just look at the statistics.... I've no issues with smokers or stoners, they aint the ones who are gonna try and beat the sh!t out of me and my mates just cos we "look weird"..... <_<

I'd definitely challenge them over it, and if they started getting all aggressive, well, I know the bouncers at my local pretty well and they'd just chuck them out and they'd probably get barred, and rightly so, they're being out of order.. People who generally spout these sorts of things loudly and obnoxioiusly, are looking for trouble, looking to pick a fight, a pub does not need someone like that, especially not the pubs I frequent, people who come in and stir sh!t are generally the chavs or footie supporters who ignore the dress code and just try to come in looking to start some trouble because they are scum, simple as... Someone sitting down quietly with their mates and lighting up a fag is not actually causing trouble to anyone, you may not like it for your own reasons, but they're not being aggressive or picking a fight with the regulars are they..? Totally different mate...

 

Oh and just for the record, in your last post when you claimed that you could easily avoid obnoxious drunks - wrong... You're kind of assuming that they wont take just try and chuck a bottle or a glass at your head regardless of whether you ignore them, they;ll do it just because they are p!sshead chav scum and they want to do it, if you walk away, they'll likely take exception to the fact and follow you.... I'm sorry but I've never heard of nicotine or tobacco fuelling a fight or a violent bit of ABH or a sexual assault.... Pissed-up lager louts however........ The facts are 90% of all violent assaults are fuelled by binge drinking, just look at the statistics.... I've no issues with smokers or stoners, they aint the ones who are gonna try and beat the sh!t out of me and my mates just cos we "look weird"..... <_<

 

sooner get bottled then lung cancer m8....