June 11, 200718 yr Oh yes. I quite agree with you. The other thing is how much contact you actually have with people from different cultures. I didn't even encounter a person of Afro-Caribbean origin until I went to Uni aged 17. My village was 100% white. My primary school was 100% white. My secondary school had 2 Indian girls out of 1,200 pupils. We weren't racist. We'd never even met anybody of different skin colour. :o
June 11, 200718 yr Right, I can't comment on the N word but I can sort of speak from personal experience with "f*****." I admit, it has become almost an affectionate word among many gay communities. It's as though the word is used so offensively for so long against us that we defiantly take it back as our own. Now there are many gays and lesbians who find this reprehensible and think the word is awful no matter who says it. Think of, say, the film Bring it On. A straight female character asks a gay male character "Do you speak fag?" and he responds enthusiastically "fluently!" Yet she says it with affection. If she'd said "Are you a fag?" it would have changed the situation entirely. Almost as though the word is acceptable idiomatically and if said by someone tolerant, but used in other ways it isn't. Anyway all this goes to prove that these words really aren't black/white. Maybe they should be but intolerance and racism and homophobia are all very complicated and involve a lot of subtleties. Perhaps this is why. Good point about the gay community actually Consie.. "Queer" is another word that the gay community reclaimed.. I vividly remember being in a gay rights rally with some friends of mine, and hearing the chant "We're here, we're queer, get used to it".... And slogans on placards such as "Say it Loud, I'm Queer, and Proud" (a rather nice utilisation of the old James Brown statement I thought :lol: ).... I think that when the likes of NWA (Niggaz With Attitude) were using the word (particularly on tracks such as "Straight Outta Compton" and "Fukk Tha Police"), it was directly confrontational and it was totally about turning the language of racism back on the racist.. Ice Cube, Eazy E and Ren were highly politicized rappers who had a point to get across and used the word as an agit-prop slogan, unlike the apathetic and "Bling"-obsessed likes of 50 Cent and Snoop Dogg who have very little to say for themselves... When I listened to the likes of Ice Cube, Ice T, Onyx, Wu Tang Clan and others I damn well KNEW that it was okay for these guys to use the word "n****" to make a point, but it certainly was not okay for a white boy like me to use it, even in a joke... Because it was made very clear in their music that it was a black thing.... Nowadays rappers make it way too ambiguous and we get the likes of this silly girl on BB making an arse of herself....
June 12, 200718 yr ... then youd have a dual language system... thats madness. if rappers use the word then of course others will think its alright, especially people who dont understand where the boundaries are....
June 12, 200718 yr ... then youd have a dual language system... thats madness. if rappers use the word then of course others will think its alright, especially people who dont understand where the boundaries are.... You're just not getting it are you mate...? You'd probably understand my point a LOT better if you had listened to some NWA or Ice-T records and actually heard what they had to say on the subject of race, and there IS a difference between the directly confrontational, agit-prop approach of these guys and the rather apathetic "I got my bling, my bitches and hos" approach of rappers nowadays who just say the word with no real context.... But you've said your knowlege of Rap whether old or new is somewhat limited, so I guess that's the reason you're missing the point.... Mind you, I would've thought that by watching the Chris Rock routine the differentiation would be obvious..... Apparently not.... Bottom line, Emily Parr using the N-word is NOT an example of the oppressed turning the oppressor's language back on the oppressor, she IS the "oppressor" (not in a literal sense of course, but in a sense that she belongs to the historical Oppressor Group..), anyone with even a rudimentary knowledge of language, linguistics and history should know this.... And seeing as how she is a University student (in BRISTOL no less, a very mixed ethnic population there...), she has less excuse than the average person to be this blindly ignorant.... No, I dont believe it was all "innocent" at all mate, you;re looking at her doe-eyed blond purrrdinesss and falling for the whole "look at me, I'm innocent routine"... Her self-confessed Right Wing views immediately get me suspicious. I reckon if she was a bloke, there wouldn't be half as much of this gushy outpouring of sympathy for her... Right Wing = Racist in the VAST majority of cases, it's only in very rare circumstances like our Craig that you get people with Right Wing views who are committed anti-Racists....
June 12, 200718 yr All im going to say is that the first article is utter sh!t. Black people DO use the term with one another (not their mums obviously, but then i wouldnt call my mum a whore, i would however use that term with mates) and its used in replacement of 'mate' or whatever; its deemed offensive when used by whites because of the history of whites abusing blacks and using the term to taunt them; its nothing to do with blacks being awkward or whatever.
June 12, 200718 yr All im going to say is that the first article is utter sh!t. Black people DO use the term with one another (not their mums obviously, but then i wouldnt call my mum a whore, i would however use that term with mates) and its used in replacement of 'mate' or whatever; its deemed offensive when used by whites because of the history of whites abusing blacks and using the term to taunt them; its nothing to do with blacks being awkward or whatever. Good point actually... What you'd say with your mates is completely different.. There's a relationship there built up over time (ie more than a week....) so you can get away with a lot more (ie, saying stuff like "how ya doin' you old b/astard" in a tongue-in-cheek way with a friend that you NEVER would with someone you barely know..), there was no such relationship with Emily and Charley, they dont even know one another, so for Emily to assume a familiarity was monumentally stupid...
June 12, 200718 yr You're just not getting it are you mate...? You'd probably understand my point a LOT better if you had listened to some NWA or Ice-T records and actually heard what they had to say on the subject of race, and there IS a difference between the directly confrontational, agit-prop approach of these guys and the rather apathetic "I got my bling, my bitches and hos" approach of rappers nowadays who just say the word with no real context.... But you've said your knowlege of Rap whether old or new is somewhat limited, so I guess that's the reason you're missing the point.... Mind you, I would've thought that by watching the Chris Rock routine the differentiation would be obvious..... Apparently not.... Bottom line, Emily Parr using the N-word is NOT an example of the oppressed turning the oppressor's language back on the oppressor, she IS the "oppressor" (not in a literal sense of course, but in a sense that she belongs to the historical Oppressor Group..), anyone with even a rudimentary knowledge of language, linguistics and history should know this.... And seeing as how she is a University student (in BRISTOL no less, a very mixed ethnic population there...), she has less excuse than the average person to be this blindly ignorant.... No, I dont believe it was all "innocent" at all mate, you;re looking at her doe-eyed blond purrrdinesss and falling for the whole "look at me, I'm innocent routine"... Her self-confessed Right Wing views immediately get me suspicious. I reckon if she was a bloke, there wouldn't be half as much of this gushy outpouring of sympathy for her... Right Wing = Racist in the VAST majority of cases, it's only in very rare circumstances like our Craig that you get people with Right Wing views who are committed anti-Racists.... no id suggest that YOU are the one not getting it! it doesnt matter if they use it or not, the point is that equality is equality, the same law for one as another... you cannot have an aparthide, if you say that these can say something but others cant then thats discimination. it breeds contempt and unrest. you are quick to assume that emily is racist because shes right wing... but say not one word of condemnation for the lyrics these rappers use against white women! strewth if white men had sang them lyrics about black women there would be an outrage! im all for EQUALITY and that means EQUALITY, not some orwelian some pigs are equal but some are more equal then others concept...
June 12, 200718 yr I don't agree with what Emily has said, but she didn't mean to say it as insult. I am not siding with her, no way -_- And i understand why BB took her out, but all this about her being racist is bewildering, she said it like chavs say, yo homey or stuff like that. If a charley or Nicky had said "white b**ch" to Emily, I doubt it would have been escalated as high as this has. Can someone explain to me, why if a black person is insulted racially by a white person, the white person is more hated and the incident would be more drastic, if rather a black person racially insulted a white person.
June 12, 200718 yr ^Because black people have typically endured centuries of racist insults etc. Whites havent!
June 12, 200718 yr ^Because black people have typically endured centuries of racist insults etc. Whites havent! I know, but racism is racism. It's less offensive white attacking black, than black attacking white.
June 12, 200718 yr ^Because black people have typically endured centuries of racist insults etc. Whites havent! whilst that is true it doesnt excuse blacks 'getting away with it' now. if people want equality then it should be even handed, and work both ways, no exceptions, no excuses.
June 12, 200718 yr Author You're just not getting it are you mate...? You'd probably understand my point a LOT better if you had listened to some NWA or Ice-T records and actually heard what they had to say on the subject of race, and there IS a difference between the directly confrontational, agit-prop approach of these guys and the rather apathetic "I got my bling, my bitches and hos" approach of rappers nowadays who just say the word with no real context.... But you've said your knowlege of Rap whether old or new is somewhat limited, so I guess that's the reason you're missing the point.... Mind you, I would've thought that by watching the Chris Rock routine the differentiation would be obvious..... Apparently not.... Bottom line, Emily Parr using the N-word is NOT an example of the oppressed turning the oppressor's language back on the oppressor, she IS the "oppressor" (not in a literal sense of course, but in a sense that she belongs to the historical Oppressor Group..), anyone with even a rudimentary knowledge of language, linguistics and history should know this.... And seeing as how she is a University student (in BRISTOL no less, a very mixed ethnic population there...), she has less excuse than the average person to be this blindly ignorant.... No, I dont believe it was all "innocent" at all mate, you;re looking at her doe-eyed blond purrrdinesss and falling for the whole "look at me, I'm innocent routine"... Her self-confessed Right Wing views immediately get me suspicious. I reckon if she was a bloke, there wouldn't be half as much of this gushy outpouring of sympathy for her... Right Wing = Racist in the VAST majority of cases, it's only in very rare circumstances like our Craig that you get people with Right Wing views who are committed anti-Racists.... Well I'm in total agreement with mushymanrob on this. If ever a post was Politically Correct "Doublespeak" then this^ is it. In reply: Yes I do own NWA Straight Outta Compton & I own Public Enemy's Fear Of A Black Planet and I do know where they come from, because at that time Rap music was a lot more underground, therefore it needed to be more incendiary, politicised & relevant to a(n under) class of people not represented by musical culture at that point of time in the late 1980s. As for Chris Rock well to be honest he is Oasis to Richard Pryor = The Beatles. Richard Pryor used a hell of a lot of profanities including the MF word to entertaining effect. But after being persuaded by Muhammad Ali to visit Africa in 1979 he realised that there is no place for the N word. He never used the word again in his stand up routines as he said in interviews thereafter that the best way of getting rid of hundred of years of racism is not to lower yourself to the level of using that offensive term that was used by our oppressors.. As I said before I never liked Emily Parr when she went into the house. She could well be a racist. But as I've said before what I don't like is double standards or more to the point considering it is big brother "Doublespeak". I have been consistent because I have always despised the likes of 2Pac, 50 Cent & Snoop Dogg for using that word. If it is OK for these people to use that word (Personally I think that word is unacceptable. Period), and there records to be broadcast & bought by a Caucasian audience then it is Politically Correct hypocrisy to turn around and say oh no you can't use that language but Afro-Caribbeans can use that word (As of the end of yesterday Charley has used that word 16 times in the BB house). This is what the majority of people have complained about including a significant amount of non-Caucasians because Channel 4's Big Brother has abused its power and discriminated against a housemate because of their skin colour when they could have had an interesting debate within the house to decide her fate or as she was up for the public vote, she would have almost certainly have been voted out. If you think it is justified to have one rule for Caucasians then another for Non-Caucasians then you are inadvertently allowing the justification for ANY type of DISCRIMINATION on the grounds of racial, ethnic, religious, nationalistic/State, heredity, etc against another subordinate. Because racism is racism. The whole point of George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four which pictures a nightmare vision of the doublespeak future, in which the tyranny of Big Brother presides over a grimly homogenized state in which War is Peace and Lies are Truth. Was all about the fate of freedom in the age of "the super power and the super-corporation, which are hybridized in the brutal monstrosity of Big Brother's regime, The Party. It is a superb lecture on the abuses of power (at the time George Orwell said it was irrelevant whether The Party was Nazism, Communism, Fascism as it represented the restriction of freedom, creativity, imagination, history and the truth). Looking at today's society whether it is Simon Cowell telling the world what good and what is bad singing/music is, with Political Correctness ever more rampant, with education and the media increasingly more dumbed down then ever in my lifetime, with Politics becoming all about image & spin and popularity instead of intellect, debate & content (where are the Tony Benn, David Owen or Michael Heseltine in today's UK politics), where we can go to war in a foreign country on a lie....... I think George Orwell's vision of the future has come true. Oh by the way you may have missed this story: Last Updated: Tuesday, 12 June 2007, 07:41 GMT 08:41 UK US teen sex sentence overturned BBC News A US judge in Georgia has overturned a ruling in which a 17-year-old man was imprisoned for 10 years for having consensual oral sex with a teenager. Genarlow Wilson, now 21, was jailed in 2005 for aggravated child molestation after he was videotaped engaging in the act with a 15-year-old girl. The judge amended Mr Wilson's felony sentence to 12 months for misdemeanour. The ruling has not led to his release, however, as Georgia's attorney-general has said he will be filing an appeal. The case has provoked controversy in the US with high profile figures, such as former President Jimmy Carter, supporting the release of Mr Wilson. 'Miscarriage of justice' Mr Wilson, a former high school honours student and star athlete, was found guilty by a jury of aggravated child molestation for having oral sex with a 15-year-old girl at a New Year's Eve party in 2003. At the time the crime carried a mandatory minimum sentence of 10 years and a lifetime registration on the state's sexual offender list. Under Georgia law, if Mr Wilson had engaged in sexual intercourse with the girl he would have only been charged with a misdemeanour and would have received a much lighter sentence. In his ruling on Monday, Superior Court Judge Thomas Wilson ordered Mr Wilson's release and said he would not be required to register as a sex offender. "If any case fits into the definitive limits of a miscarriage of justice, surely this case does," he said. "The fact that Genarlow Wilson has spent two years in prison for what is now classified as a misdemeanour, and without assistance from this court will spend eight more years in prison, is a grave miscarriage of justice." However, Attorney-General Thurbert Baker said he would file an appeal against the ruling, stating that Georgia law did not give a judge authority to reduce or modify the sentence imposed by a trial court. Mr Wilson's lawyer, BJ Bernstein, said: "It is extremely, extremely disturbing that the attorney general would take this action now." "In essence, the attorney general is saying, 'Keep Genarlow Wilson in prison for 10 years and keep him on the sex offender registry'," she added. She is planning to apply for a bond to release Mr Wilson while the appeal is pending. But a public affairs officer for the state department of corrections said Mr Wilson could not be released until they received guidance from the state attorney general's office or from the court that originally sentenced him. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The 17 year old "convicted" boy was Black the 15 year old girl was White. Now that is what I call racism! But hey this story is not as important as an a contestant in the Apprentice getting fired from her job is it? :rolleyes:
June 12, 200718 yr whilst that is true it doesnt excuse blacks 'getting away with it' now. if people want equality then it should be even handed, and work both ways, no exceptions, no excuses.Indeed, but thats the way it always will be. It's less offensive white attacking black, than black attacking white. It is? News to me.
June 12, 200718 yr Indeed, but thats the way it always will be. but without ditching the past we can never move foreward. we cant evolve and improve if we live in the past.
June 12, 200718 yr Well I'm in total agreement with mushymanrob on this. If ever a post was Politically Correct "Doublespeak" then this^ is it. In reply: Yes I do own NWA Straight Outta Compton & I own Public Enemy's Fear Of A Black Planet and I do know where they come from, because at that time Rap music was a lot more underground, therefore it needed to be more incendiary, politicised & relevant to a(n under) class of people not represented by musical culture at that point of time in the late 1980s. As for Chris Rock well to be honest he is Oasis to Richard Pryor = The Beatles. Richard Pryor used a hell of a lot of profanities including the MF word to entertaining effect. But after being persuaded by Muhammad Ali to visit Africa in 1979 he realised that there is no place for the N word. He never used the word again in his stand up routines as he said in interviews thereafter that the best way of getting rid of hundred of years of racism is not to lower yourself to the level of using that offensive term that was used by our oppressors.. As I said before I never liked Emily Parr when she went into the house. She could well be a racist. But as I've said before what I don't like is double standards or more to the point considering it is big brother "Doublespeak". I have been consistent because I have always despised the likes of 2Pac, 50 Cent & Snoop Dogg for using that word. If it is OK for these people to use that word (Personally I think that word is unacceptable. Period), and there records to be broadcast & bought by a Caucasian audience then it is Politically Correct hypocrisy to turn around and say oh no you can't use that language but Afro-Caribbeans can use that word (As of the end of yesterday Charley has used that word 16 times in the BB house). This is what the majority of people have complained about including a significant amount of non-Caucasians because Channel 4's Big Brother has abused its power and discriminated against a housemate because of their skin colour when they could have had an interesting debate within the house to decide her fate or as she was up for the public vote, she would have almost certainly have been voted out. If you think it is justified to have one rule for Caucasians then another for Non-Caucasians then you are inadvertently allowing the justification for ANY type of DISCRIMINATION on the grounds of racial, ethnic, religious, nationalistic/State, heredity, etc against another subordinate. Because racism is racism. The whole point of George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four which pictures a nightmare vision of the doublespeak future, in which the tyranny of Big Brother presides over a grimly homogenized state in which War is Peace and Lies are Truth. Was all about the fate of freedom in the age of "the super power and the super-corporation, which are hybridized in the brutal monstrosity of Big Brother's regime, The Party. It is a superb lecture on the abuses of power (at the time George Orwell said it was irrelevant whether The Party was Nazism, Communism, Fascism as it represented the restriction of freedom, creativity, imagination, history and the truth). Looking at today's society whether it is Simon Cowell telling the world what good and what is bad singing/music is, with Political Correctness ever more rampant, with education and the media increasingly more dumbed down then ever in my lifetime, with Politics becoming all about image & spin and popularity instead of intellect, debate & content (where are the Tony Benn, David Owen or Michael Heseltine in today's UK politics), where we can go to war in a foreign country on a lie....... I think George Orwell's vision of the future has come true. Oh by the way you may have missed this story: Last Updated: Tuesday, 12 June 2007, 07:41 GMT 08:41 UK US teen sex sentence overturned BBC News A US judge in Georgia has overturned a ruling in which a 17-year-old man was imprisoned for 10 years for having consensual oral sex with a teenager. Genarlow Wilson, now 21, was jailed in 2005 for aggravated child molestation after he was videotaped engaging in the act with a 15-year-old girl. The judge amended Mr Wilson's felony sentence to 12 months for misdemeanour. The ruling has not led to his release, however, as Georgia's attorney-general has said he will be filing an appeal. The case has provoked controversy in the US with high profile figures, such as former President Jimmy Carter, supporting the release of Mr Wilson. 'Miscarriage of justice' Mr Wilson, a former high school honours student and star athlete, was found guilty by a jury of aggravated child molestation for having oral sex with a 15-year-old girl at a New Year's Eve party in 2003. At the time the crime carried a mandatory minimum sentence of 10 years and a lifetime registration on the state's sexual offender list. Under Georgia law, if Mr Wilson had engaged in sexual intercourse with the girl he would have only been charged with a misdemeanour and would have received a much lighter sentence. In his ruling on Monday, Superior Court Judge Thomas Wilson ordered Mr Wilson's release and said he would not be required to register as a sex offender. "If any case fits into the definitive limits of a miscarriage of justice, surely this case does," he said. "The fact that Genarlow Wilson has spent two years in prison for what is now classified as a misdemeanour, and without assistance from this court will spend eight more years in prison, is a grave miscarriage of justice." However, Attorney-General Thurbert Baker said he would file an appeal against the ruling, stating that Georgia law did not give a judge authority to reduce or modify the sentence imposed by a trial court. Mr Wilson's lawyer, BJ Bernstein, said: "It is extremely, extremely disturbing that the attorney general would take this action now." "In essence, the attorney general is saying, 'Keep Genarlow Wilson in prison for 10 years and keep him on the sex offender registry'," she added. She is planning to apply for a bond to release Mr Wilson while the appeal is pending. But a public affairs officer for the state department of corrections said Mr Wilson could not be released until they received guidance from the state attorney general's office or from the court that originally sentenced him. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The 17 year old "convicted" boy was Black the 15 year old girl was White. Now that is what I call racism! But hey this story is not as important as an a contestant in the Apprentice getting fired from her job is it? :rolleyes: excellant post.... wish i was as eloquent!!! lol..
June 13, 200718 yr you are quick to assume that emily is racist because shes right wing... but say not one word of condemnation for the lyrics these rappers use against white women! strewth if white men had sang them lyrics about black women there would be an outrage! Erm, I dont think you've ever seen me defend a rapper who uses derogatory, sexist terms... I reckon you'll find I have always slagged off the likes of Snoop Dogg or 50 Cent... I believe I used the term "ignorant scum" to describe them... You obviously missed that.... I said that in terms of an "agit prop" slogan to make a point it was fine to use the term.... As for you TiP, I dont believe that it's at all hypocrisy, as Jark correctly points out, blacks have endured centuries of racism whereas whites have not, surely we can let them have one poxy word after all the dignity we took from them... And, we already have a system of "doublespeak" or a dual language system anyway... The words we use to our friends are not the same as we would use to a casual acquaintance... You wouldn't go up to your boss and say "How ya doing you old b/astard" in a jokey manner as you might with a friend you'd known for years.. I dont watch BB to be honest (mainly because it gives the oxygen of publicity to rancid sacks of sh!t like Parr and Goody and all the rest of them...), but if what you say about Charley is true then she's exactly the sort of person that Rock is talking about in his routine, and yeah, in the interests of consistency, chuck the ignorant ass bint out on her ear.... BUT, that does NOT excuse Emily Parr on iota as far as I'm concerned, I'll never believe that she didn't get what she deserved..... I dunno why you're criticising Chris Rock to be honest, he's slagging off people who are effectively Chavs, something you've certainly done....
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