the point is..... they shouldnt be having unprotected sex in the first place!

 

nether the less, im anti abortion as a means of contraception.

Remove to word "all" from all the phrases cause I didn´t make such generalization... Then you start to read properly.

 

OK, let's take the word you used, "usually". That implies you still believe this of the majority of men. And I would still question that.

I don't have any problem with abortion. A foetus is NOT a human being - it has no emotions and it doesn't feel pain. It's no more stopping potential life than using contraception in the first place is.

Just remember Romania and how there were SO MANY abandoned babies that the country couldn't cope with the amount to find adopted homes for?

They were just left in orphanages to rock back and forth for years on end. Many died of neglect.

Yes, we really want a world like that don't we?

 

THERE AREN'T THAT MANY PEOPLE WHO WANT TO ADOPT IN THIS WORLD TO PROVIDE HOMES FOR 180,000 KIDS (PER YEAR IN THE U.K ALONE)

LET ALONE FOR THE MILLIONS THAT ARE ABORTED AROUND THE WORLD EVERY YEAR.

 

Just remember one thing.....

That could be 180,000 extra kids on welfare PER YEAR if abortion wasn't available.

Adoption is NOT the solution. (There are very few women who can't get fertility help through IVF these days to have their own children) Adoptive parents are on the decline in numbers.

 

ABORTION is a last resort for most females. It takes a lot of courage to have one. It isn't as easy as everyone ( men usually) think

and to crush another URBAN MYTH ......it is NOT an easier contraception method than the pill or condoms. (pahleeese)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Britain is a civilised country Naomi that stuff that happened in Romania would not happen here, that occured under the vile regime of Ceaucescu, Gordon Brown for all hs faults would not let thousands of babies starve to death in orphanages like Ceaucescu did so using extreme shock tactics like that does nothing for the debate as such a thing would not happen in Britain.

 

The adoption rules in this country need reforming, there is a lot of discrimination against gay and lesbian couples for instance who want to adopt, there is no logical reason why a gay or lesbian couple could not raise a child as well as a man and a woman would.

 

And most babies that are born that could have been aborted could be raised by the parents or the grandparents of the mother not all babies born would have to go into adoption but I would rather they were bought up via adoption be it by a straight or gay or lesbian couple or bought up by the family of the mother than be terminated

Britain is a civilised country Naomi that stuff that happened in Romania would not happen here, that occured under the vile regime of Ceaucescu, Gordon Brown for all hs faults would not let thousands of babies starve to death in orphanages like Ceaucescu did so using extreme shock tactics like that does nothing for the debate as such a thing would not happen in Britain.

 

spot on craig...

 

if there are so many abortions taking place then surely the topic of contraception again must be addressed by these people! in an ideal world there would be no need for one single abortion!

Just remember Romania and how there were SO MANY abandoned babies that the country couldn't cope with the amount to find adopted homes for?

They were just left in orphanages to rock back and forth for years on end. Many died of neglect.

Yes, we really want a world like that don't we?

 

THERE AREN'T THAT MANY PEOPLE WHO WANT TO ADOPT IN THIS WORLD TO PROVIDE HOMES FOR 180,000 KIDS (PER YEAR IN THE U.K ALONE)

LET ALONE FOR THE MILLIONS THAT ARE ABORTED AROUND THE WORLD EVERY YEAR.

 

Just remember one thing.....

That could be 180,000 extra kids on welfare PER YEAR if abortion wasn't available.

Adoption is NOT the solution. (There are very few women who can't get fertility help through IVF these days to have their own children) Adoptive parents are on the decline in numbers.

 

ABORTION is a last resort for most females. It takes a lot of courage to have one. It isn't as easy as everyone ( men usually) think

and to crush another URBAN MYTH ......it is NOT an easier contraception method than the pill or condoms. (pahleeese)

 

Spot on Naomi... Having more unwanted children being born is just going to add to problems... It's all very well to say "put them up for adoption", but adoption agencies are struggling to find suitable families for the children they already have, never mind a whole load of other potential children..

 

Hey, maybe we could just go wholesale for the American option - just throw kids into the nearest available foster home, pay the foster families and dont even bother to check properly if they're a bunch of serial child abusing Peadophiles who'll lock them up in the attic or basement or not..... <_<

Spot on Naomi... Having more unwanted children being born is just going to add to problems... It's all very well to say "put them up for adoption", but adoption agencies are struggling to find suitable families for the children they already have, never mind a whole load of other potential children..

 

but it shouldnt get that far! the argument shouldnt be about wether or not abortion is right, it should be about getting across the need for contraception, or better still, abstenance! (until you are with a loving, long term partner...but hey, im old fashioned <_<)

but it shouldnt get that far! the argument shouldnt be about wether or not abortion is right, it should be about getting across the need for contraception, or better still, abstenance! (until you are with a loving, long term partner...but hey, im old fashioned <_<)

 

Well, unfortuanately the arguement has become about whether abortion is right or not, mainly due to sanctimonious, ultra-conservative right-wing nonsense which doesn't factor in any kind of reality, coming from several posters... There is no doubt that the "Safe Sex" message should be a hell of a lot stronger as it was in the 80s and early 90s, and there should be absolutely no beating around the bush with regards to sex education... In a lot of cases however, the very people who are spouting the "Pro Life" message are also those responsible for watering down the "Safe Sex" message and sex education as a whole....

 

Abstainance is frankly not even a remotely realistic solution to the problem, the drive to have sex is indemic and hardwired into our genetic make-up mate, especially when you're talking about teenagers with raging hormones.... No, we should be learning from our Scandinavian and Dutch friends on this whole issue - just how is it in their societies of more liberal attitudes towards sex that they just dont have anything like the problems we have with this whole issue....? Could it be because they have a much more all-encompassing and no-bullsh!t policy on sex education...? Could be.....

 

, we should be learning from our Scandinavian and Dutch friends on this whole issue - just how is it in their societies of more liberal attitudes towards sex that they just dont have anything like the problems we have with this whole issue....? Could it be because they have a much more all-encompassing and no-bullsh!t policy on sex education...? Could be.....

 

well on that we agree ... :) but tbh i think its unpractical, i cant see our 'victorian attitudes' hangover can be easily eradicated from the british psyche.

On the issue of under 18 abortions. One thing that gets on my nerves is how tabloids continue to print rubbish, in the above News Of The World article they claim it to be a record number of abortions. A little research reveals the TRUTH!

 

Numbers of Abortions to under 18s was higher in 1984,1985 & 1988, and the rate has been higher in both 1988 and 1998!

 

Under 18 Abortions (Numbers & Rates*) England & Wales 1984-2006

 

year number rate

1984 19,366 16.7

1985 19,082 16.9

1986 18,378 16.4

1987 18,268 16.8

1988 19,293 18.3

1989 17,904 18.1

1990 17,133 18.2

1991 15,151 16.9

1992 13,687 15.9

1993 13,036 15.5

1994 13,215 15.3

1995 13,406 14.8

1996 15,848 16.9

1997 16,092 17.1

1998 17,186 18.4

1999 16,561 17.8

2000 17,082 18.1

2001 17,273 18.0

2002 17,449 17.8

2003 18,122 18.2

2004 17,892 17.7

2005 18,023 17.6

2006 18,619 18.2

 

*Rate per 1000 female population aged 15-17

Edited September 18, 200717 yr by fiesta

On the point of sex education, maybe we should be teaching about abstinence like the americans are, their abortions and teen pregnancies are coming down, and they have the same conservative attitudes towards sex as we do!

On the issue of under 18 abortions. One thing that gets on my nerves is how tabloids continue to print rubbish, in the above News Of The World article they claim it to be a record number of abortions. A little research reveals the TRUTH!

 

Numbers of Abortions to under 18s was higher in 1984,1985 & 1988, and the rate has been higher in both 1988 and 1998!

 

Under 18 Abortions (Numbers & Rates*) England & Wales 1984-2006

 

year number rate

1984 19,366 16.7

1985 19,082 16.9

1986 18,378 16.4

1987 18,268 16.8

1988 19,293 18.3

1989 17,904 18.1

1990 17,133 18.2

1991 15,151 16.9

1992 13,687 15.9

1993 13,036 15.5

1994 13,215 15.3

1995 13,406 14.8

1996 15,848 16.9

1997 16,092 17.1

1998 17,186 18.4

1999 16,561 17.8

2000 17,082 18.1

2001 17,273 18.0

2002 17,449 17.8

2003 18,122 18.2

2004 17,892 17.7

2005 18,023 17.6

2006 18,619 18.2

 

*Rate per 1000 female population aged 15-17

 

 

thats very interesting :) i note the 'dont die of ignorance' campaigne had little effect!

On the point of sex education, maybe we should be teaching about abstinence like the americans are, their abortions and teen pregnancies are coming down, and they have the same conservative attitudes towards sex as we do!

 

You seriously want to crib notes from a country which has probably the most screwed-up, racially and economically divided, chronically under-funded and under-resourced Public Education system in the Western world???? No way Jose mate....

 

You seriously want to crib notes from a country which has probably the most screwed-up, racially and economically divided, chronically under-funded and under-resourced Public Education system in the Western world???? No way Jose mate....

 

That might be all fair and well but i fail to see what it has to do with teen abortion etc The fact is teaching about abstinence AND contraception as they do in alot of american states works, thier teen pregnancy is coming down and the number of sexuallly active teens is down too! In this country we have just thrown condoms and pills at them and told them to 'go and have fun but wear a condom' for 30 years and still teen pregnancy aint comin down, time for a change in tactics I'd say!

Edited September 18, 200717 yr by fiesta

thats very interesting :) i note the 'dont die of ignorance' campaigne had little effect!

 

yes your right. probably because around the mid 1980's there was the whole Gillick thing, which meant alot of teens were fearful of going to thier doctor to get contraception incase thier parents were told, which im sure must of kept the amount of abortions high.

Edited September 18, 200717 yr by fiesta

I really don't agree with Abortion under basically any circumstances really.

Everyone goes on about "backstreet abortionists mutilating teenage girls" but there is no reason for anyone to need to visit these places, unmarried pregnancy is not the social stigma it was in Victorian times there is no reason why anyone should not go full term, if the teenage mum can't handle the baby then give it to the grandparents to look after or put it up for adoption.

 

Like other people said, it's not fair to dump the baby on it's grandparents. They've spent 21yrs raising their own children so it's unfair for them to have to start all over again. Plus assuming they're now 50+yrs old, it won't be as easy. Someone said something about the adopted child turning up and saying "Hi mum" in 20yrs, that's the reason I would choose an abortion. The child would turn up, see children I had later and kept and feel resentful.

 

I think we should just do what Holland does. Teach children about sex from pre-school/nursery. They showed these 3yr old learning about sex. At first I thought "WTF?", but the children just laughed about it. I think they were taught about it three more times before the age of 16 and by that time it wasn't a big deal, plus they showed them how to use contraception. Most importantly they mentioned that before having sex it's important to be in a loving relationship. It's working for their rates so it should work elsewhere.

That might be all fair and well but i fail to see what it has to do with teen abortion etc The fact is teaching about abstinence AND contraception as they do in alot of american states works, thier teen pregnancy is coming down and the number of sexuallly active teens is down too! In this country we have just thrown condoms and pills at them and told them to 'go and have fun but wear a condom' for 30 years and still teen pregnancy aint comin down, time for a change in tactics I'd say!

 

Yes, it IS time for a change in tactics, but let's change the tactics to the sensible, reasonable Scandinavian or Dutch methods of Sex Education... Now THAT is working extremely well and has done so for decades... We should not be taking notes from America tbh, I think it's our desire to be Americanised that's led to so many problems in our society... Continental Europe is vastly more civilised....

Britain is a civilised country Naomi that stuff that happened in Romania would not happen here, that occured under the vile regime of Ceaucescu, Gordon Brown for all hs faults would not let thousands of babies starve to death in orphanages like Ceaucescu did so using extreme shock tactics like that does nothing for the debate as such a thing would not happen in Britain.

 

The adoption rules in this country need reforming, there is a lot of discrimination against gay and lesbian couples for instance who want to adopt, there is no logical reason why a gay or lesbian couple could not raise a child as well as a man and a woman would.

 

And most babies that are born that could have been aborted could be raised by the parents or the grandparents of the mother not all babies born would have to go into adoption but I would rather they were bought up via adoption be it by a straight or gay or lesbian couple or bought up by the family of the mother than be terminated

 

It isn't shock tactics at all. Imagine the absolute chaos if all those 180,000 were kept till full term and put onto the adoption market next year.

Child welfare services would be absolutely swamped and there is no way that they could find adoptive parents for all those babies.

Not to mention the amount from the year after that etc.

 

Both gay men and lesbians can also concieve naturally through IVF and a lot are doing that as they also want their own biological children.

 

 

If the parents thought they were in a position to raise a baby then an abortion wouldn't be necessary in the first place.

A lot of people don't have the extended family support either which is also another factor in why some abortions take place.

There is usually never just one reason alone why a female decides to do this.

 

Grims Dutch model and Mushys very nice romantic ideals should be combined and BOTH of them taught in schools.

 

Another solution would be for the morning after pill to be more widely available so it is actually possible on the morning after to get access to it.

It really should be as readily available as condoms.

This would greatly reduce the number of abortions also.