A police officer has provoked controversy by insisting that the public should stand up to vandals and yobs, even though two men have been killed in the past week for challenging unruly youths.

 

One father of three, Garry Newlove, died after allegedly being attacked by a gang who were throwing stones at a mechanical digger, while a promising footballer, Evren Anil, was killed when he challenged two teenagers who threw a half-eaten chocolate bar into his sister’s car.

 

DCI Cliff Lyons, who is leading the investigation into Mr Anil's alleged murder, said: "My advice is to assess where you are, the circumstances of the incident and whether the incident may result in a threat to you or others which is exactly what Mr Anil did. People are entitled to challenge these yobs’ behaviour."

 

No I wouldn't

 

I can look after myself physically but with a stranger these days they could have a knife or a gun so sod that

 

Instead of harrassing motorists and peace protesters the police should be catching criminals not expecting the public to put their lives on the line

Absolutely not.

 

Kids today carry all sorts of sh*t on them & don't think twice about sticking a knife in your stomach over a tenner. It's ridiculous.

 

If it was one little sh*t on their own harrassing me, then I'd think about fighting back & whooping that ass ... But a gang of them? No way.

 

They need police patrolling the streets constantly and harsher punishments for sh*t like that.

Absolutely not.

 

Kids today carry all sorts of sh*t on them & don't think twice about sticking a knife in your stomach over a tenner. It's ridiculous.

 

If it was one little sh*t on their own harrassing me, then I'd think about fighting back & whooping that ass ... But a gang of them? No way.

 

They need police patrolling the streets constantly and harsher punishments for sh*t like that.

 

Its impossible to patrol every street but anyone caught in possession of a knife should get an automatic 5 years in prison without parole and anyone caught with a gun get a sentence of 15 years minimum without parole, it is time the possession laws were tightened up

 

 

it depends on the circumstances....obviously not if there is a group of them :rolleyes:

personally i am a chicken... and there was a thing in melbourne a few months ago where a guy was abusing a chick in the CBD and 2 guys went to help her, and they got shot, and the guy abusing the chick shot her and nicked off...

 

one of the samaritans died on the scene and the other survived....

depends on what the risks were and what the crime was that was being committed. being able to look after yourself means nothing when theres a gang of youths, your best weapon is being able to handle them verbally. its how and what you say that is important.

 

 

Sadly - No, because I know that the law does not work by what is morally right or wrong but by whether a "crime" has been committed and sadly it is easier to convict an adult as opposed to a teenager....

 

Is assault lawful when protecting someone?

WHO, WHAT, WHY?

The Magazine answers...

 

 

Call the police or intervene?

Assault is against the law but what if it is committed to protect someone else?

 

Protecting the vulnerable is considered a key tenet of a civilised society, but recent events have shown that intervention in an effort to uphold community values can come at a very high price.

 

As well as the recent high-profile cases of men being killed after stepping in to stop troublemakers, there is also the memory of Philip Lawrence, the headmaster who was fatally stabbed in 1995 when trying to save a pupil from a gang.

 

The dilemma of intervention is one many of us - including broadcaster Jeremy Vine - have grappled with in our minds, if not in reality. But what protection does the law afford the person who commits violence when protecting someone else?

 

Can anyone make a citizen's arrest?

In England and Wales, an assault is usually deemed unlawful unless in self-defence.

 

"There's the concept of self-defence in case law that extends to defending not just one's self and one's property but also one's nearest and dearest and family," says solicitor Robert Brown.

 

"If I was married and my wife was being attacked then it would be a form of self-defence by analogy to protect property or family. So to that extent there would be some permission."

 

The Criminal Law Act could also be used. This aims at preventing a crime and permits assault if, for example, a shoplifter is being stopped from leaving a store.

 

"Therefore by analogy if you see someone beating up a stranger and intervene and you are accused of assault then you could use the Criminal Law Act to say 'I've a defence because I've prevented a crime,'" says Mr Brown.

 

"Therefore there's a rather broad defence in law to protect someone who intervenes."

 

The force used must be "reasonable and proportionate" and that is decided by a jury, which should take into account the difficulty of assessing what this means in the heat of the moment.

 

In Scotland, the self-defence law also applies and it covers actions on behalf of anyone else, says Alasdair Thomson of the Glasgow Law Practice.

 

"You can act in self-defence of another in Scots law and you can come to the assistance of a person under threat of imminent physical violence," he says.

 

"But the response has to be proportionate to the violence that's potentially being meted out. It's not classed as an assault because there's no intent to injure."

 

And any means of escape has to be taken at the earliest opportunity, for the defence to hold.

 

But the advice from police is unequivocally against intervention. A spokeswoman for the Association of Chief Police Officers says they have only one instruction - call the police.

 

And a Home Office statement said: "The public should not intervene in any situations of any criminal activity. They may put themselves in danger, exacerbate the situation and ultimately be acting on the wrong side of the law."

 

Those who have stepped in have sometimes found the authorities interpret events in an unsympathetic way.

 

A rail guard who intervened to protect passengers from a man who had allegedly threatened them has reportedly been sacked and charged with threatening behaviour, after appearing to head-butt the man.

 

And in a separate incident, Magazine reader John, from London, says he was charged with grievous bodily harm after a teenager who had been abusing a woman in a petrol station then squared up to him and threatened to knock him out. John punched the youth and fractured his jaw.

 

He was charged with GBH, suspended from work, depicted as a thug by lawyers and faced the prospect of jail, but the charge was dropped when CCTV evidence clearly showed the youth, who was eventually convicted of affray, behaving threateningly.

 

"Much as I would want to help out another person who was being attacked or abused, these situations can quickly escalate into violence," says John.

 

"And even if you don't get hurt as a result, the police are going to get involved, as are lawyers who are smart enough to make the whole thing a lottery."

 

 

I'm ashamed to say I wouldn't. There are FAR too many dangers; the idiots will probably be armed, and even if you do get the better of them, the chances are you'll face repurcussions from the police. If they really want us to start challenging yob culture, put in some safeguards to allow us to do so!

 

I'm aware this makes me a selfish coward, but after reading recent stories, it's the most sensible way to be.

Hate to sound insensitive, but frankly whenever I hear about one of these "have a go hero" types getting themselves stabbed or shot, I just think "you silly sod"... I mean, is a TV or a DVD player, a mobile phone, or even a car actually more important than YOUR LIFE or your family??? I dont think so...

 

To answer the question - no, I would not be a "have a go hero" on my own...

I agree partly Scott

 

While I would hand out my own form of "justice" to anyone who actually broke into my house I certainly would not get involved in anything outside my house or in my high street, someone wants to steal my car radio ? f*** it let them, its insured the insurance company will just pay for a new one I am not going to risk getting lead pumped into me over a fukkin radio. Likewise if someone was robbing a store in my town I would not get involved, let the police and insurance companies deal with it, not my problem, no way would I risk getting shot to help a stranger

 

1 on 1 on the cobbles I would fancy myself against a chav even though I am not in as good a shape as I was 10 or 15 years ago physically but today just dont know if that chav has a knife or a gun so I will not get involved