I think that she won't ever be found and sure - the parents made a catalogue of unprecedented errors, but they are probably blaming themselves enough and I highly doubt that they would have purposefully put themselves or their daughter through such hell.

I don't think that's the point he was making. I think he was saying that in countries like Portugal (actually, almost any European conuntry apart from Britain), it's acceptable to bring children into restaurants at any time. So, even if the McCanns wanted to eat later than the children they could still have brought them into the restaurant. In Britain, we have ths ridiculous attitude that young children shouldn't be in restaurants - even in a tourist resort - after about 7.00.

 

well certainly holiday resorts have kids running around until the litttle buggers drop<_<. but i think our system (usually 'no children in the bar area after 9pm) is a good thing. it allows us adults to be adults and we dont have to watch our language if we dont want to. plus kids are a bloody nuisance - period.

well certainly holiday resorts have kids running around until the litttle buggers drop<_<. but i think our system (usually 'no children in the bar area after 9pm) is a good thing. it allows us adults to be adults and we dont have to watch our language if we dont want to. plus kids are a bloody nuisance - period.

 

Spot on mate.. I dont see why I should have to mind my Ps and Qs when I go out for a Pub meal with my friends just because there are a bunch of blooming kids about..

 

the music quizes ive attended for many years often get rather racey at times, especially with some team names... theres banter between teams, joking but 'adult' language often used for comedic effect. ill NOT curb my language after 9 pm ...kids or not.

and then you bring about the issue that the McCanns had. Do they really want their children seeing/hearing this behaviour?

I agree with you that in a pub environment (with the exceptions of Sunday lunchtime etc) I don't expect to see kids around and it would be the wrong place for them. Whilst the McCanns did not do the right thing, this is the problem. Taking young children out to a pub is unfair both on the children and on the other pub goers.

Although it begs the question that there must have been somewhere more appropriate to go? It was a holiday resort afterall!

and then you bring about the issue that the McCanns had. Do they really want their children seeing/hearing this behaviour?

I agree with you that in a pub environment (with the exceptions of Sunday lunchtime etc) I don't expect to see kids around and it would be the wrong place for them. Whilst the McCanns did not do the right thing, this is the problem. Taking young children out to a pub is unfair both on the children and on the other pub goers.

Although it begs the question that there must have been somewhere more appropriate to go? It was a holiday resort afterall!

 

the thread had moved onto british pubs, thats where kids should be banned! lol, but on holiday they should either have taken them with them or use the babysitting service.

hotel babysitting services are quite special in itself - i would look seriously into it before i left children with strangers in a foreign country (there is a lot of talk that they don't stay with the children, don't speak any language other than their own etc). although i totally agree that they should have taken responsibility for their kids - either some of them should have stayed at home with the kids or they should have taken them - simple as!

and then you bring about the issue that the McCanns had. Do they really want their children seeing/hearing this behaviour?

I agree with you that in a pub environment (with the exceptions of Sunday lunchtime etc) I don't expect to see kids around and it would be the wrong place for them. Whilst the McCanns did not do the right thing, this is the problem. Taking young children out to a pub is unfair both on the children and on the other pub goers.

Although it begs the question that there must have been somewhere more appropriate to go? It was a holiday resort afterall!

 

As has been pointed out on numerous occasions, even if they did want to have a bit of time to themselves, the resort had an on-site baby-sitting service that the McCann's elected not to use, so frankly, there are no excuses... Also, I'm pretty sure that the resort would have a "family friendly" restaurant, bistro, etc... The issue is not that the McCann's went out to the Tapas bar per se, it's the fact that they went out to the Tapas Bar and left the kids on their own without any kind of supervision.... In this sense, they are most certainly to blame for what transpired, it was just asking for trouble, simple as...

hotel babysitting services are quite special in itself - i would look seriously into it before i left children with strangers in a foreign country (there is a lot of talk that they don't stay with the children, don't speak any language other than their own etc). although i totally agree that they should have taken responsibility for their kids - either some of them should have stayed at home with the kids or they should have taken them - simple as!

 

as i said earlier - hotel babysitting services have had quite a lot of bad press. and i don't disagree that they should have taken responsibility. but i do think that they did not set out intentionally to harm anyone they just acted irresponsibly and possibly with that that great human "it won't happen to me" thought in mind.

as i said earlier - hotel babysitting services have had quite a lot of bad press. and i don't disagree that they should have taken responsibility. but i do think that they did not set out intentionally to harm anyone they just acted irresponsibly and possibly with that that great human "it won't happen to me" thought in mind.

 

 

Well, I'm pretty sure the single mum on the estate who nips over the road to the local leaving the kids in the flat thinks "it wont happen to me" either, but it doesn't alter the fact that the media and the authorities in general would be far less generous and forgiving with her than they have been with the McCanns who are being fawned over by the press in the most disgustingly gushing manner imaginable.

 

Anyone who dares to utter a word against the sodding McCanns gets practically crucified by various Tabloid journos and rent-a-quote columnists... <_< And I'm betting NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THOSE HYPOCRITICAL BUGGERS would even say one word of defence in the case of a struggling, working single mum who leaves their kid at home one day because their babysitter might be sick that day and the boss tells them "get to work or you're fired"... <_<

 

As for hotel babysitting services, well, put it this way, even the most incompetent nanny is slightly better than having nobody there at all, surely.... And, parents can always sue if the babysitting service is incompetent or negligent...

If they didn't kill Madeleine themselves the McCann's were clearly Daily Mail reading little englanders who didn't want some foreigner looking after their kids :manson:

5 now that don't blame the parents :rolleyes: :manson: :manson:

 

I hope to f*** for the sake of the kids that none of the 5 ever become parents

If they didn't kill Madeleine themselves the McCann's were clearly Daily Mail reading little englanders who didn't want some foreigner looking after their kids :manson:

 

Pretty much sums it up mate.. The ironic thing is that many of these "little englander" types who go on about "johnny foreigner" have often got some poor kid straight off the plane from Poland or the Czech Republic working as an Au Pair or a cleaner, and in a lot of cases are paying them below minimum wage.... <_<

 

I hope to f*** for the sake of the kids that none of the 5 ever become parents

 

Same here mate.. You really have to wonder about some people.. -_-

I dont actually think that it's in any country's "culture" to find it acceptable to go around leaving pre-school kids in a hotel room on their own when anything could happen... Portugal is a predominately Catholic country which places great emphasis on the family, so I would think it highly unlikely that the Portuguese people in general would look kindly on parents leaving kids on their own to go off to a bar....

 

That isn't actualy what I said.

 

I don't think that's the point he was making. I think he was saying that in countries like Portugal (actually, almost any European conuntry apart from Britain), it's acceptable to bring children into restaurants at any time. So, even if the McCanns wanted to eat later than the children they could still have brought them into the restaurant. In Britain, we have ths ridiculous attitude that young children shouldn't be in restaurants - even in a tourist resort - after about 7.00.

 

That is what i was saying

 

I'm not sure about the twins being taken into care though, I dont think that I would leave any kid at the mercy of social services where there were other family members more than capable of taking them in and raising them.. As I say, the Grandparents would be good candidates for legal guardians... I mean, they're pretty much raising the twins anyway at the moment, considering the jet-setting all over the place that the McCanns themselves are up to.... <_<

 

That is what I think is so strange the Gerry and his wifes jet setting, how is meeting the pope going to help find Madeleine. They say they want less of a press intrusion so the police can consentrate on their investagation just days after saying they don't want the press attention to die down. They just seam to be making statments to get them selves in the media, like Gerry storming off, when a reporter asked them about something that was said about them in the press, knowing it would get the attention on him. It just seams that they, well Gerry more than his wife want to be in the media alot themselves.

5 now that don't blame the parents :rolleyes: :manson: :manson:

 

I hope to f*** for the sake of the kids that none of the 5 ever become parents

 

Well thanks for that! To be quite honest I think that my parenting skills will be perfectly adequate and if they aren't I doubt it's because of this.

 

Anyhow, I agree that they did a very silly thing. I agree that they should have taken some responsibility for their kids welfare. I accept that any solution would have been better than what they did.

However, all I am saying is that it's not always as straight forward as just getting a baby sitter. In the long run, they tried to do what made their kids happiest. I highly highly doubt a group of children all under the age of 5 would have been happy being looked after by a stranger. They failed spectacularily in trying to do the right thing, but I still find it absolutely disgusting that people are saying that they did this intentionally or that they killed their daughter themselves. Try putting yourself in their position. Imagine that you have made the same potentially catastrophic mistake as them. And then imagine when you are suffering from such grief and people think it is you. Why would you purposefully do something so disgusting?

Can someone actually explain what the purpose of them killing her themselves is? Think about it. There is absolutely NO rhyme or reason to that. Who would be sick enough to do that.

And actually I think that the fact they were middle class had very little to do with it - I think that the papers love nothing better than a good sob story and they would pick up on the same story regardless.

Well thanks for that! To be quite honest I think that my parenting skills will be perfectly adequate and if they aren't I doubt it's because of this.

 

Anyhow, I agree that they did a very silly thing. I agree that they should have taken some responsibility for their kids welfare. I accept that any solution would have been better than what they did.

However, all I am saying is that it's not always as straight forward as just getting a baby sitter. In the long run, they tried to do what made their kids happiest. I highly highly doubt a group of children all under the age of 5 would have been happy being looked after by a stranger. They failed spectacularily in trying to do the right thing, but I still find it absolutely disgusting that people are saying that they did this intentionally or that they killed their daughter themselves. Try putting yourself in their position. Imagine that you have made the same potentially catastrophic mistake as them. And then imagine when you are suffering from such grief and people think it is you. Why would you purposefully do something so disgusting?

Can someone actually explain what the purpose of them killing her themselves is? Think about it. There is absolutely NO rhyme or reason to that. Who would be sick enough to do that.

And actually I think that the fact they were middle class had very little to do with it - I think that the papers love nothing better than a good sob story and they would pick up on the same story regardless.

 

Would you go off and get drunk in a tapas bar with your friends and leave 3 kids under the age of 4 ALONE in an apartment with the door UNLOCKED ? I don't believe you would be that stupid Bry, you come across as a very intelligent well balanced young lady but the fact is they left those kids in an unlocked apartment, one of the kids had a history of sleepwalking, in various parts of the house there would be medicines, there would be matches, there would be alcohol, there would be sharp implements around, any of those Madeleine would have had unsupervised access to in the house while there parents were boozing 150 yards away

 

How you can not say the parents are responsible for what happened is very confusing even if they did not kill Madeleine themselves they left a front door unlocked and left 3 kids under 4 alone with dangerous materials in the house, by voting no they were not to blame you are defending the indefensible :(.

 

As for what you said about why would the parents do it ? well do we know the parents ? almost every single young person killed in this country every year was killed by a family member or close friend of family, we do not know what goes on behind closed doors Bry however professional people look on the outside

Edited September 4, 200717 yr by Vic Vega

I admit that they do have a lot of responsibility in what happened - I can completely see that what they did was utterly stupid. I just think that they never going to forget that guilt and stop blaming themselves and we should have some sympathy with them because what has happened to them is one of the worst things that could happen to a family and even to be honest that is punishment enough for them.

 

Who the hell are the four people out there who dont think the parents are at fault....?? <_>

 

I notice they dont actually come on and post to try and justify their ridiculous positions.... -_-

I think it's the ambiguous nature of the question.

 

They are clearly not at fault as the police have ruled them out as suspects unless you believe the police have it wrong.

I think it's the ambiguous nature of the question.

 

They are clearly not at fault as the police have ruled them out as suspects unless you believe the police have it wrong.

 

put it this way, would Madeline be missing if she was being looked after by someone, or they actually stayed in because they couldn't find any suitable childcare. I think not!