This 'Case' touches a raw nerve with so many people.

However, we must try not to be 'over the top' if we disagree

with the stance of other people here.

 

I am Anti McCann, as I dislike their Spin & PR Stunts -

leaving aside whether they had a DIRECT hand in Madeleine's

'vanishing'.

 

But, elsewhere - 'Mirror Forums' - someone copied out an Article from

'The Belfast Telegraph'. The Article was Anti McCann, in the sense that it

criticised their PR Campaign. But, at least one person started going

on about the IRA, & Irish people killing each other & so on - because

he was Pro McCann, & saw that a a legitimate way to attack the Article.

 

It was not legitimate. It was silly, uncivilised, & in very bad taste.

 

ALL that matters in the Case is debating the Case - personal, religious,

etc. abuse should NOT be brought into it.

 

We can all debate this matter without going into areas where we

try to hurt those whom we disagree with.

 

There is a very ANTI McCann Article intoday's 'Sun', by Jon Gaunt.

He is tired of their PR Campaigns, & he thinks that on Child Neglect

- at least - they have questions to answer. He said it is a Myth that

the McCanns have the support of the British Public. He is RIGHT.

Only a minority of the Public support the McCanns - 20% according

to the 'Times', the other day.

 

We are fed PR, Lies, Spin, & Myths about this Case.....

 

In the meantime, that poor little Girl, looks like never being

found, & ALL her Parents care about is using PR to deflect attention

away from them as Suspects. It is wrong!!!!!

This is getting kinda ridiculous TBH. I mean what's wrong if people speculate here about different opinions/state what they consider they believe what happened to Madeleine based on current info? The site is full of speculating..I mean on chart chat it is full of specualting how the next Girls Aloud single will chart...No-one is demanding there that people should have hard facts that they are basing their opinions to. I know that this is WAY different case but in the end the same kinda speculating. If you can talk here only about hard facts then there could never be any discussion about ANY current news that will end up in court...since basically before the final ruling after all appeals it actually is just speculating...and even after the final verdict you might argue that the case was flawed and based on speculation. In this thread even the longest writings with most sources and most convincing arguments still are as much speculation as if some1 writes just that he thinks the parents did it...

 

Some people here seem so offended but why? No1 here has been actually offensive (or I haven't noticed)...people have just taken offense when there have been posts from people not sharing their thoughts about the issue. When some1 backs their statemant with something from a newspaper or whatever it seems to be regarded everytime coming from a rubbish source that is totally unreliable (how do u know that? A usually rubbish tabloid actually might have a real story in it...and BBC get facts wrong).

 

If the parents are going to be prosecuted then all we can hope is that the truth will come out in the trial and that it will be a fair trial. And TBH, it wasn't like the media forced her parents into public eye. They really seem to have been very publicity greedy lately. I understand that if they didn't do it they wanted all the attention they could get after it happened but the attention now is quite useless...and if they did it and kinda accidentally created this frenzy they should have quit already...one way or the other, it was quite expected that along the road they took there would be several media backlashes and when they decided to take the road they should be ready for all the speculating...it will continue as long as they make very public appearances pretty much several times a week (and certainly not against their own will).

 

And about the motive that someone spoke here...appearantly Kate McCann told for the Portugese newspaper (magazine?) Flash! that Madeline was a very difficult child and especially after the twins were born she just couldn't control her anymore ( I think this was also on Daily Mail's website)...thou I'm not sure the writer necessarily meant this in his post...

 

You can't seriously compare the plight of a 3 year old girl gone missing with the chart position of a Girls Aloud single. Speculating about CD sales doesn't cause anyone actual harm, it doesn't screw up lives, it's trivial. Speculation over whether a child has been murdered by her parents, or taken by another British citizen; this IS the sort of thing that can screw up lives.

Look at Murat. Now should the case be wrapped up and it proven he had nothing to do with it, you would hope he would be able to carry life on as normal. Except he won't, he'll be forever known as the man suspected of kidnapping a little girl, mainly because of speculation amongst the media and the public. Given that, don't you think we all have a responsiblity to keep speculation down to a minimum?

Otherwise, how are we ANY better than the press who have been lambasted all around for their antics?

 

I am Anti McCann, as I dislike their Spin & PR Stunts.

You're one of the people touching 'raw nerves' with unsubstantiated accusations like that!

You can't seriously compare the plight of a 3 year old girl gone missing with the chart position of a Girls Aloud single. Speculating about CD sales doesn't cause anyone actual harm, it doesn't screw up lives, it's trivial. Speculation over whether a child has been murdered by her parents, or taken by another British citizen; this IS the sort of thing that can screw up lives.

Look at Murat. Now should the case be wrapped up and it proven he had nothing to do with it, you would hope he would be able to carry life on as normal. Except he won't, he'll be forever known as the man suspected of kidnapping a little girl, mainly because of speculation amongst the media and the public. Given that, don't you think we all have a responsiblity to keep speculation down to a minimum?

Otherwise, how are we ANY better than the press who have been lambasted all around for their antics?

 

 

And if you did read my post carefully you would have noticed that I said this is TOTALLY different than speculating a chart position but nevertheless still speculating. And why on earth are you comparing Murat and Madeleine's parents? Murat didn't bring this to him but Madeleine's parents pretty much have. I mean such media-whores surely must understand that eventually there will be a backlash if they continue this huge publicity campaing. I mean it is really starting to look like a promotion tour for upcoming film and book deals and nothing more. Surely you must agree that in the past few months there really hasn't been any reason for them to be on public but they still are... So Murat didn't want the headlines and the publicity but the McCann's certainly do want (I mean if they didn't they could have stepped out from the spotlight months ago) all the publicity and that is the big difference why Murat was a victim of speculating and McCann's aren't.

 

And TBH, surely you cannot be thinking that some speculation on Buzzjack will ruin someone's life.

And if you did read my post carefully you would have noticed that I said this is TOTALLY different than speculating a chart position but nevertheless still speculating. And why on earth are you comparing Murat and Madeleine's parents? Murat didn't bring this to him but Madeleine's parents pretty much have. I mean such media-whores surely must understand that eventually there will be a backlash if they continue this huge publicity campaing. I mean it is really starting to look like a promotion tour for upcoming film and book deals and nothing more. Surely you must agree that in the past few months there really hasn't been any reason for them to be on public but they still are... So Murat didn't want the headlines and the publicity but the McCann's certainly do want (I mean if they didn't they could have stepped out from the spotlight months ago) all the publicity and that is the big difference why Murat was a victim of speculating and McCann's aren't.

 

And TBH, surely you cannot be thinking that some speculation on Buzzjack will ruin someone's life.

 

No reason? That's one of the most ridiculous things I've seen in this thread. It's only their kid that's still missing, but yes, why would they possibly want to draw attention to that? And frankly no I can't agree that ANYONE deserves to be accused of killing their child; unless they actually did, but we do not have concrete proof on that yet.

 

And if you'd read my post carefully you would have noticed I didn't claim Buzzjack alone is ruining lives. However we are still contributing to the speculation, and that IS ruining lives. Buzzjack's contribution may be minimal, but I fail to see why that makes it right.

No reason? That's one of the most ridiculous things I've seen in this thread. It's only their kid that's still missing, but yes, why would they possibly want to draw attention to that? And frankly no I can't agree that ANYONE deserves to be accused of killing their child; unless they actually did, but we do not have concrete proof on that yet.

 

And if you'd read my post carefully you would have noticed I didn't claim Buzzjack alone is ruining lives. However we are still contributing to the speculation, and that IS ruining lives. Buzzjack's contribution may be minimal, but I fail to see why that makes it right.

 

 

Yes, no reason and no use. Or can you give me even one single example how all the publicity that the McCann's have created has actually helped the investigation. All the media frenzy they are creating is just hindering the investigation since the investigators cannot concentrate into the investigation thanks to that. And in all honesty they are partly responsible themselves for the disappearance of their daughter...even if they didn't kill her they created with their own ignorant behaviour circumstances that led to this. Right after the disappearance it was, of course, logical to use the media as much as possible but why do they keep on going when they have nothing new to say...having lunches with celebrities doesn't sound like really trying to find their daughter but just making most of the situation financially.

Yes, no reason and no use. Or can you give me even one single example how all the publicity that the McCann's have created has actually helped the investigation. All the media frenzy they are creating is just hindering the investigation since the investigators cannot concentrate into the investigation thanks to that.

 

Spot on, the Media have been responsible for generating all the false leads and blind alleys the PJ have been led up - the Robert Murat farrago, the Belgian episode and the "sighting" in Morrocco have all contributed to completely hampering the investigation. The Press and the McCann's own PR stunts have done NOTHING to aid the investigation whatsoever.... Just how did the much publicised visit to the Vatican actually help, how did those stupid cinema adverts help...? Answer - THEY BLOODY DIDN'T.....

 

No reason? That's one of the most ridiculous things I've seen in this thread. It's only their kid that's still missing, but yes, why would they possibly want to draw attention to that?

 

There are right ways and there are wrong ways of achieving things though Shoat - look at the way the parents of Sarah Payne went around trying to get their "Sarah's Law" proposals into the public eye.. Did it involve a visit to the sodding POPE??? No, it did not...., same goes for the parents of Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman, who managed NOT to interfere in the police investigation with pathetic PR stunts, to the extent that they rendered it practically useless.... The huge difference between the way those parents went around drawing awareness to their particular cases and the way the McCanns have gone about things could not be more evident IMO.... The Paynes, the Chapmans and the Wells' acted with a damn sight more dignity, they did NOT seek to become media "celebs".....

 

There's a difference between "raising awareness" and blatant "attention seeking".....

Yes, no reason and no use. Or can you give me even one single example how all the publicity that the McCann's have created has actually helped the investigation. All the media frenzy they are creating is just hindering the investigation since the investigators cannot concentrate into the investigation thanks to that. And in all honesty they are partly responsible themselves for the disappearance of their daughter...even if they didn't kill her they created with their own ignorant behaviour circumstances that led to this. Right after the disappearance it was, of course, logical to use the media as much as possible but why do they keep on going when they have nothing new to say...having lunches with celebrities doesn't sound like really trying to find their daughter but just making most of the situation financially.

 

 

There are right ways and there are wrong ways of achieving things though Shoat - look at the way the parents of Sarah Payne went around trying to get their "Sarah's Law" proposals into the public eye.. Did it involve a visit to the sodding POPE??? No, it did not...., same goes for the parents of Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman, who managed NOT to interfere in the police investigation with pathetic PR stunts, to the extent that they rendered it practically useless.... The huge difference between the way those parents went around drawing awareness to their particular cases and the way the McCanns have gone about things could not be more evident IMO.... The Paynes, the Chapmans and the Wells' acted with a damn sight more dignity, they did NOT seek to become media "celebs".....

 

There's a difference between "raising awareness" and blatant "attention seeking".....

 

Perhaps they didn't go about this the right way, but I don't see we should all be assuming they're not doing it for the right reasons. And yes, they made a mistake in leaving the children unattended, but if it was you would you really turn around and go "my mistake, I'll be quiet now"? And whether you think they did or not, they've still lost a child, can we really expect them to act logically? We also need to remember people react in different ways.

 

Again, I'm not agreeing they've acted correctly, but I don't see why we should see their actions as sinister and opportunistic rather than just misguided.

 

To say they are trying to become media celebs is utterly ridiculous. You make it sound as though they are jetting off to Movie premiers around the world, and meeting up with the likes of Tom Cruise and Posh and Becks ffs, when infact they went to visit the bloody leader of the Catholic church (The Pope) to keep the story going (as it had quietened down quite a bit around that time) and probebly due to the fact they are both very religious etc - hardly something celebs do is it? And of course going to see the Pope was'nt going to suddenly bring her back. It obviously helped at what it was intended for - to keep the story in the news, and to help the parents through it as they are religous. And as for the cinema adverts and all other ways of getting awareness, it was hardly suprising - they were in a foriegn country, with the police giving next to no info to the public, and not even alot to the parents, no posters of her were put anywhere - it was only till the News Of The World started their poster campaign that posters started getting put up and so on - all of that clearly did raise alot of awareness, especially outside Portugal. It is very easy to critisize the media and the parents for all the different things that have been done to raise awareness now when we know it did'nt help to find her, but then it was the obvious thing to do. If the parents had've stayed indoors all the time, the media had'nt have paid much attention to the case, then nowhere near as many people would even know who she is. In hindsight it is all well and good to say it did no good, but they did'nt know that then, no-one did (presuming they were not behind it obviously). Lets face it, there are some really f***ed up people out there who would take a child, who could be a deeply religous catholic, and them seeing the Pope ask for her back could make them. None of us knew if she was dead or alive at the time or who may or may not have had her.

 

And to compare it with Holly and Jessica is also silly, as the situation was totally different. Their bodies were found less than two weeks after they went missing, and it was in Britain where the police gave the public and media info about everything, totally different. It was also by far one of the highly publicised missing persons searches ever, if their bodies were not found for months, and the story started to not be getting as much coverage, therefor resulting in not alot of people still searching for them, then I have no doubt the parents would've plead with the public to keep looking etc.

Perhaps they didn't go about this the right way, but I don't see we should all be assuming they're not doing it for the right reasons. And yes, they made a mistake in leaving the children unattended, but if it was you would you really turn around and go "my mistake, I'll be quiet now"? .

 

I'd admit I was wrong and bloody well take responsibility for my actions, should I do something so unbelievably stupid in the first place (which I wouldn't...), neither of these two have even admitted they made a mistake or stood up in a court and admitted the crimes they have committed - ie neglect and wreckless child endangerment. I'd maybe have a bit more respect for them if they actually did.... I certainly wouldn't try to cover up my mistakes by going on endless lame PR exercises which do absolutely NOTHING to help matters and only add to the fog and confusion....

 

To say they are trying to become media celebs is utterly ridiculous. You make it sound as though they are jetting off to Movie premiers around the world, and meeting up with the likes of Tom Cruise and Posh and Becks ffs, when infact they went to visit the bloody leader of the Catholic church (The Pope) to keep the story going (as it had quietened down quite a bit around that time) and probebly due to the fact they are both very religious etc - hardly something celebs do is it? And of course going to see the Pope was'nt going to suddenly bring her back. It obviously helped at what it was intended for - to keep the story in the news, and to help the parents through it as they are religous. And as for the cinema adverts and all other ways of getting awareness, it was hardly suprising - they were in a foriegn country, with the police giving next to no info to the public, and not even alot to the parents, no posters of her were put anywhere - it was only till the News Of The World started their poster campaign that posters started getting put up and so on - all of that clearly did raise alot of awareness, especially outside Portugal. It is very easy to critisize the media and the parents for all the different things that have been done to raise awareness now when we know it did'nt help to find her, but then it was the obvious thing to do. If the parents had've stayed indoors all the time, the media had'nt have paid much attention to the case, then nowhere near as many people would even know who she is. In hindsight it is all well and good to say it did no good, but they did'nt know that then, no-one did (presuming they were not behind it obviously). Lets face it, there are some really f***ed up people out there who would take a child, who could be a deeply religous catholic, and them seeing the Pope ask for her back could make them. None of us knew if she was dead or alive at the time or who may or may not have had her.

 

And to compare it with Holly and Jessica is also silly, as the situation was totally different. Their bodies were found less than two weeks after they went missing, and it was in Britain where the police gave the public and media info about everything, totally different. It was also by far one of the highly publicised missing persons searches ever, if their bodies were not found for months, and the story started to not be getting as much coverage, therefor resulting in not alot of people still searching for them, then I have no doubt the parents would've plead with the public to keep looking etc.

 

 

Sorry mate, but I absolutely fail to see the point in putting cinema ads in a British cinema when a kid goes missing in another country.... And at this point, the whole world and his dog was aware of the story, so that's no kind of argument at all... In fact when the advert was shown before family films such as "Shrek 3" all it actually achieved was to upset hundreds of small kiddies and anger a hell of a lot of parents and other cinema goers who had by that point just gotten so sick of hearing about the whole thing every five minutes... In short, it achieved NOTHING but to upset children and wind people up the wrong way..... And you will never convince me that the Papal visit and all the other jet-setting around was anything other than PR

Wow can't really be bothered to read all this! If my boss sees me I'll be in trouble, cos I think he'd wonder why I've been here for days reading it all.

 

Always said from the off that the parents was behind it, who goes out and leaves their kids alone? If it was a chav of a person like you or me we'd have had stick straight from the off. They didn't would we would.

 

Totally fed up with story now, I know she's dead so can we stop now having it in the paper every fukking day! Tell us when you find something yeah?

i knew there was summut about kate mccann i didnt like... she puts me in mind of heather mills mccartney...

gerry and kate are prepared to take a lie detector test to prove their innocence.. if this is true they would be mightly stupid if they were guilty. it might only be 96% accurate, but thats on each question. if they answered 10 questions then 9 'lies' would clearly show their guilt, or at least give the police incentive to carry on looking for answers.

Lie detector tests will prove nothing though Rob

 

They are doctors and one is a surgeon so both are used to extremely high pressure situations and being calm under pressure, they will pass this test with flying colours because their professions require extreme calmness under pressure.

 

Lie detectors detect nerves and stress so this test will prove nothing

Edited September 21, 200717 yr by Vic Vega

Lie detector tests will prove nothing though Rob

 

They are doctors and one is a surgeon so both are used to extremely high pressure situations and being calm under pressure, they will pass this test with flying colours because their professions require extreme calmness under pressure.

 

Lie detectors detect nerves and stress so this test will prove nothing

 

Agreed Craig, as I said on a previous thread about Lie Detectors - they are notroriously innaccurate, and can easily be beaten. There are very good reason why they are inadmissable as evidence either to prove guilt or innocence....

Agreed Craig, as I said on a previous thread about Lie Detectors - they are notroriously innaccurate, and can easily be beaten. There are very good reason why they are inadmissable as evidence either to prove guilt or innocence....

 

96% 'notoriously inaccurate'?.... that dont add up. the point is that if they FAILED the test then the police would have something to go on, theyd know which direction to look. if they passed then its most probable that they are innocent of directly harming maddy. (which they probably are anyway).

 

lie detectors are now far more accurate then previous, so what if they are used to stress? do you really think that if asked 'did you kill maddy'? they could control every single nerve in their body?... lol. when people try that the results come back 'inconclusive' , it aint black and white.

 

i see the portuguese plods are now clutching at even more bizarre straws.. apparently they now are checking out some self styled pet cremotorium for traces of maddy! ... oh lord, if they had done their job properly in the first place... sealing off the resort, acting IMMEDIATELY, sealing off the appartment, then maybe they would have got more credible lines of enquirey.

96% 'notoriously inaccurate'?.... that dont add up. the point is that if they FAILED the test then the police would have something to go on, theyd know which direction to look. if they passed then its most probable that they are innocent of directly harming maddy. (which they probably are anyway).

 

lie detectors are now far more accurate then previous, so what if they are used to stress? do you really think that if asked 'did you kill maddy'? they could control every single nerve in their body?... lol. when people try that the results come back 'inconclusive' , it aint black and white.

 

i see the portuguese plods are now clutching at even more bizarre straws.. apparently they now are checking out some self styled pet cremotorium for traces of maddy! ... oh lord, if they had done their job properly in the first place... sealing off the resort, acting IMMEDIATELY, sealing off the appartment, then maybe they would have got more credible lines of enquirey.

 

Well, I wouldn't say that checking out a pet cemetary as a possible dumping ground for a body is really all that ridiculous, they must have had some sort of intelligence that led them to that spot, I doubt they're checking it out for the good of their health mate.... I was under the impression they did seal off the apartment.... And at that time the assumption was that Maddie had been abducted by persons unknown and taken off the resort site....

 

The point about lie detectors is that people who are used to lying can get round them, if you lie and lie enough and convince yourself the lie is true, then you can beat it, a compulsive liar can always beat a lie detector 100% of the time.. This is why law enforcement agencies in the US dont really put that much stock in them...

 

Well, I wouldn't say that checking out a pet cemetary as a possible dumping ground for a body is really all that ridiculous, they must have had some sort of intelligence that led them to that spot, I doubt they're checking it out for the good of their health mate.... I was under the impression they did seal off the apartment.... And at that time the assumption was that Maddie had been abducted by persons unknown and taken off the resort site....

 

 

 

The point about lie detectors is that people who are used to lying can get round them, if you lie and lie enough and convince yourself the lie is true, then you can beat it, a compulsive liar can always beat a lie detector 100% of the time.. This is why law enforcement agencies in the US dont really put that much stock in them...

 

as i see it the police have been talking wild stabs in the dark ever since the alert was raised. ok they need to check out every possibility, the media go hysterical every time theres a new 'lead'. now checking out a pet crematorium just seems... bizarre... maybe it would make more sense if there was some reason for it.

 

people DONT get around lie detectors m8, they can possibly beat it once in ten questions, or they can cause an 'inconclusive' result (which would mean 'guilty not proven'). theres a difference between using a lie detector test to see if someones guilty and using the test to convict someone. ok, they arnt reliable enough to be used for a secure conviction, but if they failed it then all the plods would have to do is prove it! theyd put all their resources into the right direction. but tbh, theres no evidence to suggest they are guilty, and if they passed the lie detector test then that for me would (until any compelling evidence emerged) be enough.