I think the Spice Girls are to blame for what 'Rock' music currently is...

 

When they came in the definition of pop music changed from what was popular to what we see pop as now. It all continued with bands like Steps, Five, S Club, Atomic Kitten, Westlife, All Saints etc becoming big too. This was without many bands that used guitars anywhere as it seemed to be pretty OAF at the time... Then when the likes of Coldplay, White Stripes and The Strokes broke through in about 2000/2001 they could no longer be described as pop as they didn;t represent what the current definition was so they were labelled as rock instead...

I think i'd consider coldplay and Kieser Chiefs indie music.

Gorillaz im not sure about but i dont think it falls anywhere near the rock category.

I think i'd consider coldplay and Kieser Chiefs indie music.

Gorillaz im not sure about but i dont think it falls anywhere near the rock category.

 

I'd consider Gorillaz dance music.

I think the Spice Girls are to blame for what 'Rock' music currently is...

 

When they came in the definition of pop music changed from what was popular to what we see pop as now. It all continued with bands like Steps, Five, S Club, Atomic Kitten, Westlife, All Saints etc becoming big too. This was without many bands that used guitars anywhere as it seemed to be pretty OAF at the time... Then when the likes of Coldplay, White Stripes and The Strokes broke through in about 2000/2001 they could no longer be described as pop as they didn;t represent what the current definition was so they were labelled as rock instead...

 

Nah, the rot set in way before the Spice Girls - the likes of Stock/Aitken/Waterman and their "(s)Hits Factory" were really the ones to blame for all this manufactured tripe that's been forced on us now, The Spice Girls merely re-ignited the whole thing...

 

I think i'd consider coldplay and Kieser Chiefs indie music.

Gorillaz im not sure about but i dont think it falls anywhere near the rock category.

 

But how can they be? Aint they both on big Corporate record labels?? I think the whole original idea of "Indie", meaning bands on Independent record labels which are not part of a huge Corporation, has been totally forgotten and now we have some sort of false, revisionistic idea of Indie (which has been totally gerrymandered by the music press and the record companies over the past decade or so) has been put across. You can make a case for Franz Ferdinand being a genuine Indie band because they're on Domino records.

 

Indie is an ethos which grew out of Punk, an approach to making music which does not involve the big corporations. The issue has become fudged because in the 90s you had lots of bands on Indie labels who signed over to major labels, but they were still mistakingly referred to as "Indie" bands. Once a band crosses over as it were, they cannot be referred to as an "Indie" band anymore. If you look at the Indie charts back in the 80s and 90s you'd have a real mish-mash of bands who really sounded nothing like each other all being included, but they were there because they were on Independent record labels...

Yes, Indie still supposedly means what on an idependant label. Rough Trade and Domino are obviously the biggest but people now seem to think anything with a guitar in is indie :|

Yes, Indie still supposedly means what on an idependant label. Rough Trade and Domino are obviously the biggest but people now seem to think anything with a guitar in is indie :|

 

Apart from the rare one or two (like FF who actually are on Indie labels) I consider most of this current lot to be "Guitar-based Pop" or "Britpop". Coldplay is pure AOR

I think most of what's called indie just means 'soft-rock guitar bands'. I suppose guitar based pop bands is the most suitable label, but 'pop' has connotations of bubblegum all-dancing-and-a-couple-singing acts so perhaps the guitar bands don't want to lumped together with them.

 

Grimly Fiendish is spot on about it being daft to purely blame The Spice Girls- Stock Aitken Waterman started it if anything. That said, they certainly weren't the first hit 'factory' full of acts which had songs written for them. Motown for example was established way before that (although that was quite a bit different I guess).

Well that is true to an extent... But when the guitar bands that came in after SAW did start to become successful they were stilll labelled as pop, even if it had the word Brit infront of it. After the Spice Girls wave of pop it's now all called indie or rock, when it's clearly no different to the Britpop of 10 years ago...Why not Britpop again, that's exactly what it is - A new wave of Britpop...

Edited May 16, 200619 yr by RabbitFurCoat

As i said before, it doesnt matter anyway? If i like an artists, i dont care what genre their pigeoned holed into, would u rather major labels not touch alternative music & leave all the indie/rock bands on independent labels & just promote x factor contestents?

Personally i think its great that indie music, or britpop whatever u wanna call it, real artists who play their intruments are doing so well in the charts at the moment, or would u prefer a return of s club & steps dominating :cry: Which probably happen in a couple of yrs anyway

As i said before, it doesnt matter anyway? If i like an artists, i dont care what genre their pigeoned holed into, would u rather major labels not touch alternative music & leave all the indie/rock bands on independent labels & just promote x factor contestents?

Personally i think its great that indie music, or britpop whatever u wanna call it, real artists who play their intruments are doing so well in the charts at the moment, or would u prefer a return of s club & steps dominating :cry: Which probably happen in a couple of yrs anyway

 

I just want them to get the labels right, I don't really think that's too much to ask to be honest. And, frankly, if major labels will just take Indie, Alternative, Metal or Rock bands and try to turn them into something they aint (like Geffen tried to do with Nirvana, but there are loads of other examples I could mention...), then I would rather they just left them, yes. There's plenty of alternatives out there for bands - the best one being for bands to just flog themselves on the internet and just cut out the middleman altogether - worked for Arctic Monkeys and Gnarls Barkely....

 

There's plenty of alternatives out there for bands - the best one being for bands to just flog themselves on the internet and just cut out the middleman altogether - worked for Arctic Monkeys and Gnarls Barkely....

 

good point, & i hope so too, personally i have no time for major labels, espcially the way they dont give artists time to develop :angry:

I think most of what's called indie just means 'soft-rock guitar bands'. I suppose guitar based pop bands is the most suitable label, but 'pop' has connotations of bubblegum all-dancing-and-a-couple-singing acts so perhaps the guitar bands don't want to lumped together with them.

 

But guitar based pop band is such a mouthful, like a vocal version of a blocked toilet :lol: indie is much easier to drop in conversation. and people would think your a tit if you kept putting in the phrase well i like the new guitar based pop band tune by the :lol: :lol:

 

Grimly Fiendish is spot on about it being daft to purely blame The Spice Girls- Stock Aitken Waterman started it if anything. That said, they certainly weren't the first hit 'factory' full of acts which had songs written for them. Motown for example was established way before that (although that was quite a bit different I guess).

 

think it went back further than that to the birth of teenagers :o when guys called colin were reformulated as rock n roll stars called billy fury and marty wilde and similar extreme names for the time (dont quote me on dates though)

 

old bloke in office keeps going on about a bloke who had a gimpy leg. probs gene vincent or billy fury. cant remember at the mom ent

 

anyway he had this gimpy leg that he dragged around so they dressed him all in lether and put him on stage with loads of boys on bikes and so he turned into someone who looked cool rather than a disabled person

to be honest i dont think that rock "excists" anymore

Maybe the red hot chilli peppers and green day, but all these bands like coldplay, there not rock

Rock has energy, listening to a coldplay song, it has no energy

and no offence to coldplay fans

 

good point, & i hope so too, personally i have no time for major labels, espcially the way they dont give artists time to develop :angry:

 

Happened a lot in the early 90s, major labels took on a whole raft of Indie bands hoping to market another Stone Roses or Nirvana and when they didn't manage to shift the required 'units', they dropped a lot of these young bands and it destroyed them. I particularly remember the case of a band called Rialto - a pretty damned good Pulp/Blur-alike band from London back in the time of Britpop, they got signed up to a major and then dropped like a stone after their debut album, they never really recovered, did one more album, then split up. So you're totally spot on about the majors just leeching off young talent and giving them no space or time to develop...

 

 

to be honest i dont think that rock "excists" anymore

Maybe the red hot chilli peppers and green day, but all these bands like coldplay, there not rock

Rock has energy, listening to a coldplay song, it has no energy

and no offence to coldplay fans

 

:lol: :lol:

 

100% in agreement with you there mate, which is why I see 'em as AOR, rock only without the rawness, energy and guts. Coldplay just remind me of these awful AOR bands of the 70s/80s (you know the types - Chicago, Boston, Foreigner; earnest, big stadium ballads, utterly, utterly fukkin' tedious.....)

 

But don't despair real rock does still exist - HIM, Marilyn Manson, Rammstein, Misfits, Devin Townsend, SOAD, etc.....

:lol: :lol:

 

100% in agreement with you there mate, which is why I see 'em as AOR, rock only without the rawness, energy and guts. Coldplay just remind me of these awful AOR bands of the 70s/80s (you know the types - Chicago, Boston, Foreigner; earnest, big stadium ballads, utterly, utterly fukkin' tedious.....)

 

 

an article in one of the mags said

the feeling... just the gay supertramp or not? :lol: :lol:

an article in one of the mags said

the feeling... just the gay supertramp or not? :lol: :lol:

 

 

:lol: :lol: :lol: Supertramp.....How could I forget them.....? :lol:

Rialto, name rings a bell. Untouchable, one of theirs? :huh:

Rialto, name rings a bell. Untouchable, one of theirs? :huh:

 

I believe so.... Unfortunately, the tape I had of their debut album is back home in Dundee in a big cardboard box..... :lol: :lol: