So you would have us go back to the "good old days" then yeah....? When a "woman's place" was in the home, when we called people "darkie" or "coon", make abortion and homosexuality illegal again...? You slag off the hippy liberals of the 60s, but at least their changes were largely for the good of society and empowered ordinary people more, whereas Thatcher's changes were almost entirely negative and robbed us of power....

 

And now you have the Nu Labor govt robbing us of even more power and liberties....

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again, we need to be more like the French and Germans and stand up for ourselves a bit more against the state....

 

oh stop over reacting, thats NOT what i said at all, but have previously stated that the good intentions have been used to support more silly extreme views, no it isnt acceptable to call people that, but that doesnt mean that its an excuse for 'positive discrimination' either... thats just one of the idiotic ideas that the silly pc brigade has perverted from the real meaning of 'equality'.

but that doesnt mean that its an excuse for 'positive discrimination' either... thats just one of the idiotic ideas that the silly pc brigade has perverted from the real meaning of 'equality'.

 

The facts are though, that despite the Race Relations, Sex Discrimination and Equal Pay Act, women and ethnic minority people are still chronically under-represented in management, business, politics, in fact in pretty much ALL areas of commerce and industry.. People like you would still see this totally unnacceptable situation go on seemingly ad infinitum ... So, where's all this "positive discrimination" then, the vast majority of women and ethnic minorities sure aint benefitting much from it, whereas women and ethnic minorities make up the overwhelming majority of the lowest paid workers in this country, the "glass ceiling" still very much exists despite acts of Parliament and changes in law....

The facts are though, that despite the Race Relations, Sex Discrimination and Equal Pay Act, women and ethnic minority people are still chronically under-represented in management, business, politics, in fact in pretty much ALL areas of commerce and industry.. People like you would still see this totally unnacceptable situation go on seemingly ad infinitum ... So, where's all this "positive discrimination" then, the vast majority of women and ethnic minorities sure aint benefitting much from it, whereas women and ethnic minorities make up the overwhelming majority of the lowest paid workers in this country, the "glass ceiling" still very much exists despite acts of Parliament and changes in law....

 

you know full well that positive discrimination exists, and it shouldnt.

 

any job should go to the best candidate regardless of their sex, sexuality or race... period. thats equality. you cant go dishing out jobs to a black woman 'just to redress the balance'...

you know full well that positive discrimination exists, and it shouldnt.

 

...And you know full well the "old boys network" still exists, and it shouldn't..... The one good thing that Blair did was to put up a lot more women for being Prospective Party Candidates, and the sky didn't exactly fall because he made that conscious effort now, did it....?

Here's a little example for you, just to illustrate my point....

 

Guy I know who was on the same Uni course as me, originally from Coventy, worked in a Wetherspoons in the kitchens.. He came down to London to attend Uni and gets a referral from his old boss and a job working in a London Wetherspoons, basically doing the same job as he did in Coventry.. Now, not unreasonably, my mate expected a slightly higher wage what with the increased costs of living in London as opposed to living in Coventry, but what he found was the opposite... He was being paid 60p and hour LESS than he was being paid in Coventry.. Then he discovers that he's about the only white, British guy working in the place (apart from the manager that is.....)... He brought it up with his new boss, but the new boss just mumbles some bullsh!t about "increased overheads", despite the fact that they charge more for the beer in London than in Coventry and that price increase would be enough to cover any increased running costs as my mate pointed out... He basically quit the job because as he put it "I'm fukked if I'm gonna do the same bloody job for less money...". He got in touch with his old boss in Coventry, who was, to say the least, rather surprised, but he was in no position to do anything about it...

 

So, blatant p***-taking if you ask me, and a very clear example of everything I've been talking about, the exploitation of migrant workers and the result in driving down wages for the indigenous workers... It may not be directly racist, but at the very least it is a totally dishonest and incredibly dodgy practice.... And this is by no means the only example.....

Here's a little example for you, just to illustrate my point....

 

Guy I know who was on the same Uni course as me, originally from Coventy, worked in a Wetherspoons in the kitchens.. He came down to London to attend Uni and gets a referral from his old boss and a job working in a London Wetherspoons, basically doing the same job as he did in Coventry.. Now, not unreasonably, my mate expected a slightly higher wage what with the increased costs of living in London as opposed to living in Coventry, but what he found was the opposite... He was being paid 60p and hour LESS than he was being paid in Coventry.. Then he discovers that he's about the only white, British guy working in the place (apart from the manager that is.....)... He brought it up with his new boss, but the new boss just mumbles some bullsh!t about "increased overheads", despite the fact that they charge more for the beer in London than in Coventry and that price increase would be enough to cover any increased running costs as my mate pointed out... He basically quit the job because as he put it "I'm fukked if I'm gonna do the same bloody job for less money...". He got in touch with his old boss in Coventry, who was, to say the least, rather surprised, but he was in no position to do anything about it...

 

So, blatant p***-taking if you ask me, and a very clear example of everything I've been talking about, the exploitation of migrant workers and the result in driving down wages for the indigenous workers... It may not be directly racist, but at the very least it is a totally dishonest and incredibly dodgy practice.... And this is by no means the only example.....

 

surely that illustrates the reason why migrant workers SHOULDNT be here! if it was an all british workforce then the wages would have been much higher. my daughter worked for wetherspoons in london and got the minimum wage plus london living allowance, but then again that was a couple of years ago before 'johnny foreigner' drove wages DOWN.

 

old argument, migrant workers from poor countries living in subsidised accomodation CAN work for less then our chaps, which is why british tradesmen are going out of business. exploited? by our standards maybe, but again no ones FORCING them to work here, its their choice.

...And you know full well the "old boys network" still exists, and it shouldn't..... The one good thing that Blair did was to put up a lot more women for being Prospective Party Candidates, and the sky didn't exactly fall because he made that conscious effort now, did it....?

 

sorry, but where did i said i support that?...

 

point is, the 'good old days' were flawed, inequality, sexism, racism... this needed to be addressed, and was to a degree, but they got it wrong! they (the silly pc brigade) spoiled a good movement by going too far.... equality should mean equality, nothing else.

actually this immigrant topic is straight out of tory doctrine... thatcher used it to subdue the working man.... keeping unemployment high, keeps wages down.

so whats wrong with being english?... oh thats a stupid question to ask a scot with a 200 year old chip on his shoulder.. <_ .>

 

im sick and tired of traditional english values and way of life being eroded by the moronic pc brigade... as if its a CRIME to be english! you are one of the biggest 'anglophobes' ive ever met, course if the english were black then youd be a racist <_ . man if you hate england>that much then fcuk off back north of the boarder.

 

And what would those "traditional English values" be?

And what would those "traditional English values" be?

 

just living in a way that we as a nation has for years, but evolving as a society to dump the negative traits of the past whilst still retaining our english breeding... like the state of our language for eg. we can still be traditional englishmen without resorting to homophobia, racism and sexism that tarnished our past.

And what would those "traditional English values" be?

 

 

Exactly... There's no such thing, well at least not since the Anglo Saxons got their arsed kicked by the Nomans anyway.... :lol: :lol: Just about everything that can be attributed to "Englishness" or "Britishness" has been imported from the outside.... My main problem with the English is that most of them just cant seem to see it, and are ironically and ignorantly suspicious of any "foreign" ideas when in fact, pretty much ALL the ideas they cherish are almost certainly from a foreign influence.....

 

The concept of Democracy = Greek

The Rule of Law = Roman

Christianity = Israeli, Palestinian, Roman (catholic) and German (protestantism)

St George = Turkish

 

surely that illustrates the reason why migrant workers SHOULDNT be here! if it was an all british workforce then the wages would have been much higher. my daughter worked for wetherspoons in london and got the minimum wage plus london living allowance, but then again that was a couple of years ago before 'johnny foreigner' drove wages DOWN.

 

old argument, migrant workers from poor countries living in subsidised accomodation CAN work for less then our chaps, which is why british tradesmen are going out of business. exploited? by our standards maybe, but again no ones FORCING them to work here, its their choice.

 

Again, making craven excuses for unscrupulous employers and agencies exploiting migrant workers... You really are a hypocrite aren't you....? Pretend that you're "down with the common man", but it's really only the common ENGLISH man innit.....? You seem to forget that in the 19th Century the Irish were exploited by factory owners and mill owners to exactly the same degree..... The whole fukkin' reason why the Labour movement sprang up in the first place was to stop the exploitation of both the Irish migrant AND the indigenous working classes.....

 

And it is clear to me that there needs to be a NEW working class movement in this day and age..... It sure as $h!t aint "The Labour Party" anymore standing up for the common man....

so whats wrong with being english?... oh thats a stupid question to ask a scot with a 200 year old chip on his shoulder.. <_< .

 

im sick and tired of traditional english values and way of life being eroded by the moronic pc brigade... as if its a CRIME to be english! you are one of the biggest 'anglophobes' ive ever met, course if the english were black then youd be a racist <_< . man if you hate england that much then fcuk off back north of the boarder.

 

The day you lot can celebrate "Englishness" without insulting other countries, peoples or nationalities, then I'll be on board with it.... I see the stark contrast between the Irish St Patrick's day celebrations which are geniunely jovial and all-inclusive, and the representatives of "englishness" when they go abroad and indeed those ultra-nationalistic Orange Day parades. The Irish tend to include non-Irish peoples in the St Patrick's day celebrations, celebrations of Englishness tend to exclude all other peoples in their celebrations.... Englishness intimidates people in a way Irishness does not... Address that mate, and we'd have no problems with celebrations of your "englishness".....

when ever did enoch support violence towards anyone? should all politicians say nowt just in case some extremists use their words to justify criminal acts of violence?.. thats barmy.

 

There is very clear macho posturing in the tone of his speech that would, and did, almost certainly inflame those of a nationalistic, ultra right wing tendency.... I would argue that Powell's posturing and the tone of his language was very similar to speeches made by Serb and Croatian nationalist MPs, particulary the likes of Tudjman and Milosevic.....

 

The day you lot can celebrate "Englishness" without insulting other countries, peoples or nationalities, then I'll be on board with it....

 

then you clearly dont understand what 'englishness' is to many of us.

then you clearly dont understand what 'englishness' is to many of us.

 

I know what it might mean to you, but unfortunately, your voice gets drowned out by all the scum who DO see 'Englishness' as an excuse to act in a macho, posturing way.... <_<

 

There is very clear macho posturing in the tone of his speech that would, and did, almost certainly inflame those of a nationalistic, ultra right wing tendency.... I would argue that Powell's posturing and the tone of his language was very similar to speeches made by Serb and Croatian nationalist MPs, particulary the likes of Tudjman and Milosevic.....

 

bollox... they were blatantly war-mongering, powel wasnt but was warning of the effects of unchecked migration which yet again id suggest was pretty close to the mark.

 

migrants/invaders, which ever, 'forgeigners' in another country have ALWAYS been the scource of troubles everywhere in the world throughout history.

I know what it might mean to you, but unfortunately, your voice gets drowned out by all the scum who DO see 'Englishness' as an excuse to act in a macho, posturing way.... <_<

 

but they are the MINORITY, the footy yobs, the national front yobs etc are NOT what the majority of normal englishmen identify with...in fact WE dispise them as they do our country a dis-service

bollox... they were blatantly war-mongering, powel wasnt but was warning of the effects of unchecked migration which yet again id suggest was pretty close to the mark.

 

I repeat, he should have toned down the racist rhetoric and then maybe I might listen to what he had to say.... But it is clear to me that the man was a racist, probably homophobic as well, I'd be willing to bet he certainly voted against "legalising sodomy" as he would no doubt put it... And his words DID inspire the hatred and violence that the NF and Combat 18 perpetrated every bit as much as Milosevic and Tudjman inspired the hatred and violence in the former Yugoslavia... The scales might be different, but the hatred itself is just the same.... Hate is hate, the actual scale is unimportant as far as I'm concerned, what matters fundamentally is that you are demeaning and dehumanizing people, which is almost certainly what Powell was doing when he was referring to "negroes" and "grinning piccaninnies" in his speech. Frankly, I find it rather strange that you supported my objections to gollywogs and cannot see the simple truth in this case, the "rivers of blood" speech is certainly more apparent in its racist rhetoric and undertones than a gollywog is....

 

In short, I dont think you or I have ANY right whatsoever to say that a person of colour should not be grossly offended by the words of Powell, or indeed those who would support him and quote his words for their own dodgy, nebulous political agendas....

but they are the MINORITY

 

Hmmm, well, not sure they're that much of a minority... -_- They certainly dont seem to be when you run into them on any given Saturday night.....