point 1.... i cant speak any other language so it aint a choice.

 

The majority of immigrants who come here are multi-lingual, speaking several languages... They speak "mother tongue" to each other for speed, convienience, etc, obviously a conversation would be a lot quicker and more "familiar" if both parties were talking in "mother tongue" dont you think...? If you lived in Germany, had a fairly good grasp of German, you still wouldn't talk to another British person in German, because that would be just silly.....

The majority of immigrants who come here are multi-lingual, speaking several languages... They speak "mother tongue" to each other for speed, convienience, etc, obviously a conversation would be a lot quicker and more "familiar" if both parties were talking in "mother tongue" dont you think...? If you lived in Germany, had a fairly good grasp of German, you still wouldn't talk to another British person in German, because that would be just silly.....

 

i think its rude to do that.

 

if i went to live in another country then i would learn their language, i hope id never be so disrespectful to the locals.

True, but that doesn't take away from the damage that's done to themselves or to any kids concerned when it all goes t*ts up does it...? And seeing as how in many cases divorces happen because one partner is unfaithful, it just seems like the whole "lovey, dovey happiness" angle is just one big fat lie anyway, or at the least, kinda transient....

 

I'm just saying nothing's perfect.... Frankly, I dont have much respect for the institution of marriage tbh - arranged or otherwise.... -_-

 

Everyone knows that nothing is perfect and nothing lasts forever, I just think most people get so carried away in the moment and want to show how much they mean to eachother (I know there's other ways you can show your love) so hey lets get married, it's not something that most couples regret my mum and dad don't (they got a divorce when I was 5), he wouldn't have his kids that he worked hard for as a singel parent with no help from my mum.

i think its rude to do that.

 

if i went to live in another country then i would learn their language, i hope id never be so disrespectful to the locals.

 

I have to agree, I'd never dream of doing it either.

The psychological bullying involved in arranged marriages is appalling - it's unfair, unjust and simply not acceptable to force a person to marry someone else. Marriage, like all affairs of the heart, is a choice..... and one that you, and you alone, should be allowed to make.

 

Mormons' multiple patners.... another religious cult who preach on morals - yet do just what the hell they like in the name of their 'Lord' - it's a bizarre, scary religion.... a friend of a friend was raised a Mormon in America - it damaged him for life.

 

And as for 'most immigrants' speaking English, Scott... I suggest a visit to the Polish community (the colossal Polish community) in Cardiff.... about 1 in 10 of them speak ANY English whatsoever, and the rest are particularly blase about bothering learning it.

as it happens the subject on jerremy kyle NOW is 'forced' marriages... there are some very harrowing stories told by 'victims'... abduction, drugged, disowned, threatend, by fascist, racist parents...

 

 

mormons.... i dont think ive ever heard of such a fcuked up excuse for a religion ... some pervert wanted more then one wife, so he justified it by interpreting passages in the bible to suit him <_<, went 'out west' and at any cost (to native indians and his own supporters some of which were EXECUTED for massacreing settlers on HIS say so)... the bloke was fcuked up, evil, and damn it ive clearly forgotten his name! :lol:

as it happens the subject on jerremy kyle NOW is 'forced' marriages... there are some very harrowing stories told by 'victims'... abduction, drugged, disowned, threatend, by fascist, racist parents...

 

Ah, well, you see, "forced marriages" are a totally different kettle of fish, and should not be confused with "Arranged Marriage".... They are two seperate issues. "Forced Marriage" is where all the coercion and psychological bullying, etc occurs....

 

I do slag him off a fair bit, but but least Jeremy Kyle seems to be smart enough to actually know the difference between an "arranged" marriage an a "forced" one.... Which is more than can be said for some people in this debate.....

if i went to live in another country then i would learn their language, i hope id never be so disrespectful to the locals.

 

Obviously you'd learn German to speak to other Germans, but you wouldn't talk German to another Brit... It's not disrespect or anything, purely convienience....

The psychological bullying involved in arranged marriages is appalling - it's unfair, unjust and simply not acceptable to force a person to marry someone else.

 

But that's "Forced Marriage" you're talking about, it aint the same thing as an "Arranged Marriage" that both parties and their families agree to... I suggest you actually go out and look up the definition of an "Arranged Marriage" because you're clearly a bit confused.... An "Arranged Marriage" that one or other party does not agree to is a "Forced Marriage", let's get this one straight...

 

And as for 'most immigrants' speaking English, Scott... I suggest a visit to the Polish community (the colossal Polish community) in Cardiff.... about 1 in 10 of them speak ANY English whatsoever, and the rest are particularly blase about bothering learning it.

 

I would imagine that most of these folks are on short-term work contracts, so they wont be in the country for long, then it could be off to France, Germany, whatever... No point in learning a language to any degree if you dont intend to stay there for long... And that aint my experience in London, all the Polish people that I know have incredibly high standards of English and speak it a lot better than any estate dweller you care to mention.. I certainly understand what my Polish friends say better than some knuckle-dragging, barely literate chav w/anker....

 

But that's "Forced Marriage" you're talking about, it aint the same thing as an "Arranged Marriage" that both parties and their families agree to... I suggest you actually go out and look up the definition of an "Arranged Marriage" because you're clearly a bit confused.... An "Arranged Marriage" that one or other party does not agree to is a "Forced Marriage", let's get this one straight...

 

:lol: oh Scott, PLEASE don't try to patronise me - I aint 16 and I won't be talked down to - surely you should understand at least that by now?

 

There is, in actual fact, VERY LITTLE DIFFERENCE between forced or arranged marriages - I suggest it's YOU who needs to do some research.

 

The definition of a 'forced' marrige is this:

"A Forced Marriage is one where people are coerced into a marriage against their will and under duress. Duress includes both physical and emotional pressure."

 

The definition of an arranged marriage, whilst less forceful, is hardly different - people forced to undergo an arranged marriage (and make no mistake - forced they are) are often subject to both physical and emotional duress and pressure - very often against their will, too.

Islam itself is a vile religion with its attitudes towards women, homosexuals, jews, arranged marriages and so on but I believe in freedom of choice and if people want to take up this vile religion then I guess it is up to them

Edited November 17, 200717 yr by Vic Vega

people forced to undergo an arranged marriage (and make no mistake - forced they are) are often subject to both physical and emotional duress and pressure - very often against their will, too.

 

Again, you're defining a FORCED marriage, not an ARRANGED one.... Do you actually know anyone who's in an "Arranged" marriage? In fact, do you actually know anyone who's asian or muslim, at all...? An old school friend of mine is in an Arranged marriage and I had pretty much the same reaction you did, that is until I realised that far from being coerced into it, she was actually a very willing participant. She works as a barrister, so she aint no idiot, and she aint "downtrodden", in fact she earns more money than her husband... She defines an Arranged Marriage as a contract or agreement between two completely willing participants and their families, anything else is just wrong... Her husband was not her first suitor either, she went through about three or four "blind dates" (for want of a better term) until she found someone she liked and got on with, and vice versa, and there was an engagement period of over 6 months to see if they could work out as a couple... NO coercion, NO forced element... They've been together for 10 years, who the hell are you to say that their relationship is somehow less valid just because it didn't involve going out and clubbing or whatever....?

 

as it happens the subject on jerremy kyle NOW is 'forced' marriages... there are some very harrowing stories told by 'victims'... abduction, drugged, disowned, threatend, by fascist, racist parents...

mormons.... i dont think ive ever heard of such a fcuked up excuse for a religion ... some pervert wanted more then one wife, so he justified it by interpreting passages in the bible to suit him <_<, went 'out west' and at any cost (to native indians and his own supporters some of which were EXECUTED for massacreing settlers on HIS say so)... the bloke was fcuked up, evil, and damn it ive clearly forgotten his name! :lol:

 

Our species is not naturally monogamic. It´s religious influence that made us like this, that why monogamy is the rule in every civilization influenced by catholicism.

But that's "Forced Marriage" you're talking about, it aint the same thing as an "Arranged Marriage" that both parties and their families agree to... I suggest you actually go out and look up the definition of an "Arranged Marriage" because you're clearly a bit confused.... An "Arranged Marriage" that one or other party does not agree to is a "Forced Marriage", let's get this one straight...

 

But in the end it´s the same thing, cause partners are usually too young to decide and the pressure from the families is absurd, so it stand as the same thing, a marriage made purely on the convenience of the family...

But in the end it´s the same thing, cause partners are usually too young to decide and the pressure from the families is absurd, so it stand as the same thing, a marriage made purely on the convenience of the family...

 

I guess it depends on how its done... Families always exert a certain amount pressure on their children to marry, whether conscious or unconsciously.. It could just be a throwaway comment like "and when are you going to make a decent woman out of her...?" or "will we be hearing wedding bells soon..?" or "you have to get married, or you'll end up an old maid".... It's not as full-on as some of the stories that you do hear about, but it still involves a certain amount of psychological pressure....

 

My school friend was in her mid-20s when her arrangement was started, so she wasn't a young ingenue who knew nothing about the world, she'd already started in her law career, they way she saw it, her family were helping her because her career did not really afford her the time to go out and look for a mate.... :lol:

Again, you're defining a FORCED marriage, not an ARRANGED one.... Do you actually know anyone who's in an "Arranged" marriage? In fact, do you actually know anyone who's asian or muslim, at all...? An old school friend of mine is in an Arranged marriage and I had pretty much the same reaction you did, that is until I realised that far from being coerced into it, she was actually a very willing participant. She works as a barrister, so she aint no idiot, and she aint "downtrodden", in fact she earns more money than her husband... She defines an Arranged Marriage as a contract or agreement between two completely willing participants and their families, anything else is just wrong... Her husband was not her first suitor either, she went through about three or four "blind dates" (for want of a better term) until she found someone she liked and got on with, and vice versa, and there was an engagement period of over 6 months to see if they could work out as a couple... NO coercion, NO forced element... They've been together for 10 years, who the hell are you to say that their relationship is somehow less valid just because it didn't involve going out and clubbing or whatever....?

 

Anyone in a democratic state can have an arranged marriage in these terms... So it´s obviously not this type of marriage that Dr. Bari was talking about.

 

The marriage you just described is pretty much like any normal ocidental marriage.

 

Plus, what´s the point in a minority who just came in the country a few decades want to dictate how the rest of the population should behave?

 

It´s laughable but sometimes it seems that the UK is so politically correct that the culture of a minority will eventually surpass the traditions you had for centuries...

Plus, what´s the point in a minority who just came in the country a few decades want to dictate how the rest of the population should behave?

 

Is he not just applying it to his own community though...? I dont think he's seriously trying to say that this is what non-Muslims should be doing as well....

The problem is more with the article than Dr Bari.

It just doesn't give enough details. Do we know in what context those comments were made? Like Grimly Fiendish has just pointed out, do we know if he was referring to the Muslim community or to the whole British public? Who are these war widows who have reacted angrily, and what exactly what their comments? Which MPs exactly are involved? What reasons did Dr Bari give for wanting to ban public drinking?

 

We don't have the full picture here, how can we comment? Whatever Bari may or may not have said, this article was clearly written to provoke a negative reaction from the British public; claiming the war widows were offended without actually quoting any of them is a tactic to sensationalise the issue. And it's worked on BJ, most of us have already assumed the worst.

Is there a full article on this story so we can all comment on the full facts? Until I see that, I'm going to take this story with a pinch of salt.

 

 

It's pretty disgraceful that ANY newspaper can write such a vague, short, overly emotive and completely p***-poor article on such a sensitive issue.

Edited November 18, 200717 yr by Shoat

the evidence ive seen on arranged marriages swings both ways... some people trust their parents to make the right choice for them and its only consumated when and if both parties agree.... others though are more a 'forced' arrangement where one or more parties are not happy with the arrangement but go through with it out of duty.