so whats your opinion on the influx of polish workers to the uk?

 

do you think its good for our economy? do you think we need them in this country as everybody wants to work in the media or become famous these days and not do a hard days work!!!

 

or do you think they will take all out jobs off people already living in this country, will live in polish ghettos full of organised crime or what?

 

 

 

(note: i only bought the daily mail for the free spanish cd, this weekend i will be buying the independent :lol: :lol: as they are doing it too!!!!)

Well, as my girlfriend is Polish, I take serious issue with this bullsh!t that the Daily Fascist...oops...sorry....I meant to say Daily Mail, didn't I....? Of course there are gonna be a few bad apples here and there, but I never hear a bloody word from the Daily Fascist (God, there I go AGAIN, I really must try to get my lexicographical Tourettes under control.... :lol: :lol: ) about all the British bank robbers, villains and other assorted scum that went out and settled on the Spanish Costas....

 

I know plenty of Polish people in London, they've all got good standards of education, good jobs and work a hell of a lot harder than most of the lazy, shiftless British Chav b/astards who breed like rabbits and live of the ruddy Social, so if I was to make a decision on who to deport, it would be the Chavs over the Poles or Czechs anyday.....

 

And I think that The Daily Fascist (oh, sod it, I just give up now...) would find that a great many of the "problem" people from Eastern Europe are in fact Romanians, Ukrainians and Bulgarians, NOT Poles, Czechs or Slovaks. Poland itself has a lot of problems from these people, my girlfriend told me about all the Gypsies that came over from Romania and into Polish villages and towns and would just steal anything that wasn't nailed down. And before someone accuses me of being un-PC, it happens to be fact, like it or not......

And I think that The Daily Fascist (oh, sod it, I just give up now...) would find that a great many of the "problem" people from Eastern Europe are in fact Romanians, Ukrainians and Bulgarians, NOT Poles, Czechs or Slovaks. Poland itself has a lot of problems from these people, my girlfriend told me about all the Gypsies that came over from Romania and into Polish villages and towns and would just steal anything that wasn't nailed down. And before someone accuses me of being un-PC, it happens to be fact, like it or not......

 

Actually when i was going to czech, a czech friend said its a safe place apart from the gypsies but you just punch them in the face it perfectly alright!!!. thats what she would do :o

 

did you see the programme holidays in euroland last wednesday? it was in romania and bulgaria and had a bit on the roma (ps was the un-pc part for calling then gypsies instead of roma?) and the persecution of there peoples/and the condition that they had to live in.

 

(was the same programme that was on last night on bbc2 at 7.30 but this time it wasnt about central / eastern european states like these and georgia)

The thing that disturbs me greatly is the fact that the majority of Poles who come to Wales (and there are many) simply don't speak a word of English.

 

My boyfriend works for the Millennium Stadium and the number of Poles who go there looking for work, but who speak not one word of English is staggering - in fact, none of them speak English, so of course, none of them can get jobs there. Also, in the house where he lives, and the previous address, there are Poles living above and below him - again, at both addresses, none of the Polish people there could speak English.

 

They do seem really polite, friendly and definitely eager to work - but why don't any of them seem to study English BEFORE they travel here, as the language barrier prevents them from getting jobs of any worth whilst they're here?

Edited May 18, 200619 yr by russt68

Well, as my girlfriend is Polish, I take serious issue with this bullsh!t that the Daily Fascist...oops...sorry....I meant to say Daily Mail, didn't I....? Of course there are gonna be a few bad apples here and there, but I never hear a bloody word from the Daily Fascist (God, there I go AGAIN, I really must try to get my lexicographical Tourettes under control.... :lol: :lol: ) about all the British bank robbers, villains and other assorted scum that went out and settled on the Spanish Costas....

 

I know plenty of Polish people in London, they've all got good standards of education, good jobs and work a hell of a lot harder than most of the lazy, shiftless British Chav b/astards who breed like rabbits and live of the ruddy Social, so if I was to make a decision on who to deport, it would be the Chavs over the Poles or Czechs anyday.....

 

And I think that The Daily Fascist (oh, sod it, I just give up now...) would find that a great many of the "problem" people from Eastern Europe are in fact Romanians, Ukrainians and Bulgarians, NOT Poles, Czechs or Slovaks. Poland itself has a lot of problems from these people, my girlfriend told me about all the Gypsies that came over from Romania and into Polish villages and towns and would just steal anything that wasn't nailed down. And before someone accuses me of being un-PC, it happens to be fact, like it or not......

 

lol I think thats a very one dimensional view. I party with a lot of Poles in London and most of the jobs they get are in Coffee Shop's for the woman and building/ construction for the men. Thats fact, I know so many Poles and although they have a grasp of English their education level is low meaning they are here to improve their English as well as work in the above areas.

 

I know no Poles in good jobs after being in London for 2 years now.

 

To answer the question for me is that there not a problem as there are SO MANY coffee shop's and construction jobs in London that need to be filled. We need their labour to do these jobs.

 

lol I think thats a very one dimensional view. I party with a lot of Poles in London and most of the jobs they get are in Coffee Shop's for the woman and building/ construction for the men. Thats fact, I know so many Poles and although they have a grasp of English their education level is low meaning they are here to improve their English as well as work in the above areas.

 

I know no Poles in good jobs after being in London for 2 years now.

 

To answer the question for me is that there not a problem as there are SO MANY coffee shop's and construction jobs in London that need to be filled. We need their labour to do these jobs.

 

You're clearly not hanging out with the ones I do then, I don't doubt that you may be right in some areas, but I probably know just as many Polish and ECE (that's Eastern Central Europe..) people as you do mate, and believe me, there aint none of them working in unskilled jobs, except for the BA and MA students who work part-time in bars, clubs, record stores, restaurants, etc... My girlfriend works as a trainee manager in a high-profile retail outlet in regent street, our flatmate works in admin at a local hospital as does our landlady who is also Polish, all have high standards of education and speak better and more proper English than some of the scum you hear on Chav estates. You accuse me of having a one-dimensional view, you're totally wrong.... The people who have the one dimensional views on Polish people are the scummy Tabloid journos who talk sh!te about people from Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia and the Baltic States.

 

It may interest you know that these scummy tabloid journos who talk c**p about Eastern Europeans are merely following the xenophobic agenda of UKIP and the BNP.....

 

Oh, and of course, the head honcho of UKIP got found out the other week, his party objected to Euro expansion and the "floods of migrants from Eastern Europe" and then it turns out he got a load of Polish builders in to do up his posh mansion in Devon. The stench of hypocrisy......

Where i used to work, their were $h!t-loads of polish workers, mostly on $h!te money by british standards(but good money compared to poland wear they earn £200 a month on average) Most of them were fine, worked hard & were friendly people. The Government must love them coming over as they keep inflation down. My dad said though, the only problem espcially in the building trade is that wages will go down for British people, as companies can start employing cheap Polish workers instead.

But it was the same for the Asian & Black people who came over in the 50s. They only came over for the c**p jobs that the white working class wouldnt do. & got alot of $h!t(no blacks, no dogs, no irish etc) & continued too get grief till the 1980s. But i would say they are now accepted by the majority as being part of britain(on the outside at least).

 

It be interesting how the Poles intergrate to Britain in the next few decades, will they do as well as the indians & the chinese immigrants, who do better than most british people do, will they continue to settle for bad wages, or will they expect better wages, when they realise how expensive it is to live in this country, i think they will have it easier than the black & asian immigrants as they are the same skin colour, in 30 yrs the second/third genrations be just as British as the rest of us.

Edited May 18, 200619 yr by Joey Deacon

Where i used to work, their were $h!t-loads of polish workers, mostly on $h!te money by british standards(but good money compared to poland wear they earn £200 a month on average) Most of them were fine, worked hard & were friendly people. The Government must love them coming over as they keep inflation down. My dad said though, the only problem espcially in the building trade is that wages will go down for British people, as companies can start employing cheap Polish workers instead.

But it was the same for the Asian & Black people who came over in the 50s. They only came over for the c**p jobs that the white working class wouldnt do. & got alot of $h!t(no blacks, no dogs, no irish etc) & continued too get grief till the 1980s. But i would say they are now accepted by the majority as being part of britain(on the outside at least).

 

It be interesting how the Poles intergrate to Britain in the next few decades, will they do as well as the indians & the chinese immigrants, who do better than most british people do, will they continue to settle for bad wages, or will they expect better wages, when they realise how expensive it is to live in this country, i think they will have it easier than the black & asian immigrants as they are the same skin colour, in 30 yrs the second/third genrations be just as British as the rest of us.

 

Exactly, it's exploitation of the workers that's the problem, not the fact that they are Polish... I'd like to see just once these bloody Tabloid journos actually get on the side of the Working Classes (instead of pretending that they do...) and show as much bloody moral indignation about the fact that Migrant workers are being totally shafted by unscrupulous employers.....

 

You're clearly not hanging out with the ones I do then, I don't doubt that you may be right in some areas, but I probably know just as many Polish and ECE (that's Eastern Central Europe..) people as you do mate, and believe me, there aint none of them working in unskilled jobs, except for the BA and MA students who work part-time in bars, clubs, record stores, restaurants, etc... My girlfriend works as a trainee manager in a high-profile retail outlet in regent street, our flatmate works in admin at a local hospital as does our landlady who is also Polish, all have high standards of education and speak better and more proper English than some of the scum you hear on Chav estates. You accuse me of having a one-dimensional view, you're totally wrong.... The people who have the one dimensional views on Polish people are the scummy Tabloid journos who talk sh!te about people from Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia and the Baltic States.

 

It may interest you know that these scummy tabloid journos who talk c**p about Eastern Europeans are merely following the xenophobic agenda of UKIP and the BNP.....

 

I work in Finance and in that field i see NO Poles.... that includes Accountancy, Finance, Investment Banking and Insurance.

 

Depends how you classify a good job, I dont class administration as a good job requiring high skill level but perhaps thats where we differ. In regard to wage rate its simple demand / supply, they are hardly being exploited as they are used to a much lower wage level. Also they have less of a grasp of the culture and language than a local would have so it makes sence.

Also they have less of a grasp of the culture and language than a local would have so it makes sence.

 

Rubbish, if you're doing the same job as another worker, you get the same wage in my book, end of story, don't matter if you're British, Polish, French, German; we're all Europeans now mate, if I went out to Holland or Germany to work, I would damn well expect to be paid the same wages as a Dutch person or a German. How much understanding of the local culture or language does a British or American person have of Saudi Arabia or United Arab Emirates when they go out there to work on some Sheikh's oil field.....? Precious little I would imagine, but I doubt very much they'd have less benefits than an Arab worker doing the same job (probably a hell of a lot more I would imagine, which is also unfair...)...

 

Using culture as an argument is not an excuse for paying below the odds....

Rubbish, if you're doing the same job as another worker, you get the same wage in my book, end of story, don't matter if you're British, Polish, French, German; we're all Europeans now mate, if I went out to Holland or Germany to work, I would damn well expect to be paid the same wages as a Dutch person or a German. How much understanding of the local culture or language does a British or American person have of Saudi Arabia or United Arab Emirates when they go out there to work on some Sheikh's oil field.....? Precious little I would imagine, but I doubt very much they'd have less benefits than an Arab worker doing the same job (probably a hell of a lot more I would imagine, which is also unfair...)...

 

Using culture as an argument is not an excuse for paying below the odds....

 

firstly you missed out my first part of the discussion which totally refutes your above statements:

 

I work in Finance and in that field i see NO Poles.... that includes Accountancy, Finance, Investment Banking and Insurance.

 

Depends how you classify a good job, I dont class administration as a good job requiring high skill level but perhaps thats where we differ.

 

 

In regard to a job, noncense you get the same wage regardless. We are not picking oranges in a field, a job has so many more variables. Experience, ability to do the job, ability to fit into the company, ability to fit into the society. I see language and in some cases culture as very important in being able to do your job.

 

If you dont have the same grasp of english as another person you might not be able to do your job as well, not be able to get your opinion accross well enough in meetings... the list goes on. Polish people coming over to the UK do not have the same experience (in most cases) as a UK local as Poland is not a service sector economy!

 

Its easy to give the 'lets feel sorry for them' argument but the truth speaks for itself. Im in for giving anyone a fair chance but the facts speak for themselves.

I work in Finance and in that field i see NO Poles.... that includes Accountancy, Finance, Investment Banking and Insurance.

 

 

You cant possibly know every single person in the country (or even in London) working in Finance mate, so how would you know if there aren't any somewhere else? You can only speak for the particular company that you work for....

 

Might interest you to know that The Independent interviewed a Polish lady a couple of weeks back who works as a high-up exec in a Media Company, so there are some Polish High Flyers my friend....

 

firstly you missed out my first part of the discussion which totally refutes your above statements:

 

 

In regard to a job, noncense you get the same wage regardless. We are not picking oranges in a field, a job has so many more variables. Experience, ability to do the job, ability to fit into the company, ability to fit into the society. I see language and in some cases culture as very important in being able to do your job.

 

 

Yeah, yeah, blah, blah, trotting out pretty much the same arguments that have been used to pay women and, in the past, black people and Asians less wages than men for the same job. That argument cuts no ice with me Phil, exploitation is exploitation. We may not be talking about oranges, but I would say that a Polish bricklayer is just as good at the job as a British bricklayer. In the 1980s, thousands of British workers went to Germany to work on building sites, they were paid exactly the same wage as a German construction worker, and there were precious few British brickies who could speak a word of German....

 

Say what you like, there is NO excuse.....

again missing my whole post for a snippet:

 

In regard to a job, noncense you get the same wage regardless. We are not picking oranges in a field, a job has so many more variables. Experience, ability to do the job, ability to fit into the company, ability to fit into the society. I see language and in some cases culture as very important in being able to do your job.

 

If you dont have the same grasp of english as another person you might not be able to do your job as well, not be able to get your opinion accross well enough in meetings... the list goes on. Polish people coming over to the UK do not have the same experience (in most cases) as a UK local as Poland is not a service sector economy!

 

You dont pay people the same just because they have the same job. Cant possible structure a debate around one sentence of a person's reply!

 

Of course there are exceptions but in London nearly every coffee shop or cafe you go into you are bound to find someone polish. The suntan place I go to has 2 polish women there. Infact nearly everywhere I go in the cafe, coffee shop area there are so many Polish women working.

 

There are figures for this released a few months ago I believe about this showing the areas where on record Polish and other nationalities went into. Its fact!

I have to say that ALL the Poles who live or have lived in the houses with my bloke, the males, the only work they can find is in construction, and even then it's pittance pay for them and the crappy jobs.

 

The basic problem, and it's a HUGE one - nothing to do with radically different culture - it's to do with the basic fact they haven't bothered to learn the language before they come over here.

 

Every single one, as I mentioned, that I've met in Cardiff, and there's a HUGE Polish community there, is either totally unable to speak English at all, or they have the bare bones knowledge of the language - literally "Hello", "Goodbye" and "Thankyou".

 

Personally, I wouldn't dream of going to live in a foreign country, especially if I was serious about getting work, without learning the language first. And fluently at that.

 

Apart from anything else, it's bloody rude, because the Poles in Cardiff - they don't mix, socialise or converse with the Brits because they simply can't due to them being unable to speak the lingo. Madness.

Edited May 18, 200619 yr by russt68

In London a lot can infact speak better English but still not on par to handle more complicated conversations so their wage is capped.

 

 

GRIMLY FIENDISH this should be an interesting read:

 

Since Poland joined the European Union last year, about 100,000 Poles have registered to work in the UK. Around a third of them were here already, but wanted to make their presence legal. Polish builders in particular have prospered, while others work as bus drivers, care workers, carpenters, caterers, decorators, dish washers, electricians, lorry drivers, nannies, nurses, plumbers and shelf stackers. Fewer than 30 claim benefits.

 

Source: Guardian

Sunday May 15, 2005

I would say that a Polish bricklayer is just as good at the job as a British bricklayer.

 

I disagree, mate - the Poles are far harder and better workers... their problem in finding better paid jobs or jobs more suited to their skills is the language barrier.

again missing my whole post for a snippet:

You dont pay people the same just because they have the same job. Cant possible structure a debate around one sentence of a person's reply!

 

Of course there are exceptions but in London nearly every coffee shop or cafe you go into you are bound to find someone polish. The suntan place I go to has 2 polish women there. Infact nearly everywhere I go in the cafe, coffee shop area there are so many Polish women working.

 

There are figures for this released a few months ago I believe about this showing the areas where on record Polish and other nationalities went into. Its fact!

 

Oh, come on, everyone picks and chooses a particular part of quotation to comment on, it aint just me. But okay, if you want me to go into it further, you mentioned a part about Polish people not being able to put themselves across in meetings effectively. Okay, here's my reply....

 

How many board meetings would a Construction Worker of any nationality need to attend, seriously......? You go in, get your instructions, and get on with it, it aint a debating society or high-power business meeting. Where I live, there's a lot of construction work going on at the moment and a lot of EE and foreign workers work there, the ones I've talked to seem to understand English just fine, certainly enough to get by and to follow their foreman's instructions I would imagine.... And I've no complaints about the standard of the work they're doing either.....

I have no problem with poles or anyone from any nationality coming here and working, if they come to sponge off the social then they should be deported and given a hefty boot up the backside by a customs officer as they are leaving but I welcome anyone of any nationality in this country if they are working

 

Poles are not denying English people jobs, the English unemployed are too ****ing lazy to apply for these jobs so the Poles are merely operating on supply and demand and are doing largely unskilled low paid jobs, the English are too happy living on benefits to do menial jobs so good on the poles I say

 

The polish influx reminds me of the influx of blacks coming into London in the 60's and taking cleaning jobs and bus conductor jobs and driving buses, the English were lazy $h!ts so never applied for them so London Transport ended up recruiting from overseas

 

If there is a change of attitude from the English unemployed there would be no need to recruit foreign labour but for English guys claiming the dole they won't get off their fat arses unless it is for a managing director role

Oh, come on, everyone picks and chooses a particular part of quotation to comment on, it aint just me. But okay, if you want me to go into it further, you mentioned a part about Polish people not being able to put themselves across in meetings effectively. Okay, here's my reply....

 

How many board meetings would a Construction Worker of any nationality need to attend, seriously......? You go in, get your instructions, and get on with it, it aint a debating society or high-power business meeting. Where I live, there's a lot of construction work going on at the moment and a lot of EE and foreign workers work there, the ones I've talked to seem to understand English just fine, certainly enough to get by and to follow their foreman's instructions I would imagine.... And I've no complaints about the standard of the work they're doing either.....

 

I agree!! So we have come full circle and you have answered my point:

 

I party with a lot of Poles in London and most of the jobs they get are in Coffee Shop's for the woman and building/ construction for the men

 

My point at the beginning was the Poles work in those sort of jobs but I dont see them as a threat to us as we need people to fill these vacancies :)