Mate, with all the problems you have in the US with the Death Penalty (especially in Southern States where a disproportionate amount of black murderers are sentenced to death over white murderers - FACT!!!!) I'm pretty damn shocked that you are in any way advocating for the Death Penalty.... Sorry man, but the state has no more right to kill someone than you or I do, and if that does mean that people who may be unworthy are getting 3 square meals a day and a roof over their heads, well, surely that says that we are more civilised than they might be... And the facts are, that in the case of gangs in particular, the US made a rod for its own back there by marginalising and ignoring the communities where gang activity is its highest for years..

 

Do kids in the Black and Hispanic Projects get the same sort of access to good education as the kids in the white suburbs, do they get the same chances in life..? Do they fukk, they're lucky if they have more than one textbook for a whole sodding class..... The facts are, your racist, redneck, and in many cases, Uncle Tom politicians created the spiralling problem of gang culture in the first fukkin' place by basically offering these people no hope or real alternatives (and dont give me this guff about the US being a "land of opportunity" or "freedom for all", we both know that this is simply not the case for the vast majority of Americans...), save your anger for them, and not for people living in a total sh!thole not of their own making....

 

As for your question "what is the use of a...serial killer?".. Well, I'll tell ya... A live serial killer is probably pretty damn useful to FBI psychological profilers.....

 

 

I am not pro-life BTW. I'm pro choice.

 

Secondly, I am not an advocate for racial profiling, I never said any thing about that in my post. I'm only saying that when someone has been convicted of killing someone and there is SOLID, without a doubt proof then it should be done/ That's why there is a thing called reasonable doubt, which makes the person innocent.

 

I didn't say that the gov was just, but IMO if someone killed me (not including an accidental) or someone in my family, I would want them to die...and that is just how I feel.

The only problem I have with this is that I find it really hypocritical, it's like they kill people and then we kill them to show them that killing is wrong, it's pure madness. Also the factor of injustice such as an innocent man/woman being killed for a crime that did not commit, makes it even more sound not right.

I am not pro-life BTW. I'm pro choice.

 

Secondly, I am not an advocate for racial profiling, I never said any thing about that in my post. I'm only saying that when someone has been convicted of killing someone and there is SOLID, without a doubt proof then it should be done/ That's why there is a thing called reasonable doubt, which makes the person innocent.

 

I didn't say that the gov was just, but IMO if someone killed me (not including an accidental) or someone in my family, I would want them to die...and that is just how I feel.

 

Nothing can ever be 100% certain though. Especially if say, evidence is tampered with or confessions gained by improper means. I for one don't have 100% confidence in our own British police force or justice system in general - in parts it is downright corrupt. A few years ago a man called Stefan Sisco was convicted of the murder of a young girl the evidence at the time was 100% accurate (or so they said) they even got a confession (the guy was a gentle giant who confessed because he didn't want to be beaten up). His conviction was overturned when it transpired that the case against him was total b*llocks - his conviction was mainly based on the confession that had been intimidated out of him. The real killer has now been identified and dealt with - not without heartache for both sides - Stefan Sisco had barely a year to make the most of his freedom because he died about that long after release. Had the death penalty been in force - he wouldn't even had the luxury of the 'years inside' because he'd be being discussed as one of those 'miscarriages of justice'.

 

I'm not saying I'm against the death penalty either ... there have been recent cases where there has been no doubt - murderers actually 'bragging' about their acts. I just feel that if no remorse is shown - then the person is no longer human, and if there is no humanity in that person then there is no hope at all of rehabilitation.

 

Its a tricky one!

 

Norma

 

I just feel that if no remorse is shown - then the person is no longer human, and if there is no humanity in that person then there is no hope at all of rehabilitation.

 

Its a tricky one!

 

Norma

 

absolutely..... some guys are just evil.

absolutely..... some guys are just evil.

 

Not even evil ... some are just vermin.

 

norma

 

there have been recent cases where there has been no doubt - murderers actually 'bragging' about their acts. I just feel that if no remorse is shown - then the person is no longer human, and if there is no humanity in that person then there is no hope at all of rehabilitation.

 

 

Those are the kind of cases that I am talking about. The only person I hate in the world is OJ Simpson, he was going to write a book titled "If I had done it" which is basically saying how he would have killed his wife (after being proven innocent), and DING DING the publishers said that it was exactly the same thing that happened.

 

Double jeopardy is a b**ch.

I have no problem with the death penalty. I think it is a sensible thing to do when you have a convicted child molestor who has killed numerous children. People like that are sick and don't deserve to breathe, to be quite frank. And plus it is not my responsibility to pay for a convicted murder through my tax dollars to stay at a state prison to eat 3 square meals a day, have time to go outside and have a recess (because it would be wrong for the government to keep them in a cell all day :rolleyes: ) . They are put in conditions that many people around the world would LOVE to have, even people in MAJOR countries such as the US, where people don't have the money to feed their children or themselves, much less have a f***ing bed to sleep in.

 

And people sputtering this "one person shouldn't murder another, just because they killed someone else!" bull$h!t, what is the use of someone who is a f***ING serial killer. Yeah lets just send them to a building where they don't have to do a damned thing, just sit in a cell, eat, go outside, get into gang fights and kill more people through gang communication within prisons. Yay, sounds like a f***ing blast.

 

And in saying all that I am not saying all convicted murders should get the death penalty. But I think you all know by using a thing called common sense, that there are numerous cases where an individual deserved the death penalty.

 

 

Since 1945 through to 2005: 14% of murder convictions have been attributed to Afro Caribbean origin in the good ole' USA.

Since 1945 through to 2005: 62% of executions have been of Afro Caribbean origin in the good 'ole USA.

 

In short if you are American and you support the Death penalty. Then I think I'm more than entitled to label you a racist.

 

 

Since 1945 through to 2005: 14% of murder convictions have been attributed to Afro Caribbean origin in the good ole' USA.

Since 1945 through to 2005: 62% of executions have been of Afro Caribbean origin in the good 'ole USA.

 

In short if you are American and you support the Death penalty. Then I think I'm more than entitled to label you a racist.

 

And if you label every single person according to a statistic, I am more than entitled to label you a dumbass.

 

I would just like to point out how rude and uneccesary that comment is, how does this discussion (where I thought different views are accepted) come to a point where you have to call me out as something that I am not. I did NOT decide who got sent to execution from 1945 - 2005, in fact I was only alive 15 years out of that time period. I love how you think that you can go around sticking allegations on people. You don't know me, so don't base me on a statistic.

Edited March 7, 200817 yr by Tyler

And if you label every single person according to a statistic, I am more than entitled to label you a dumbass.

 

I would just like to point out how rude and uneccesary that comment is, how does this discussion (where I thought different views are accepted) come to a point where you have to call me out as something that I am not. I did NOT decide who got sent to execution from 1945 - 2005, in fact I was only alive 15 years out of that time period. I love how you think that you can go around sticking allegations on people. You don't know me, so don't base me on a statistic.

 

I've re-read this thread, and I think your comment regarding OJ Simpson says it all really.

 

I strongly suggest you check out the history of Capitol punishment within America, going back to setting up of the US Constitution and it's association hand & hand with the slave trade.

 

According to official Amnesty International figures (stats from the end of 2003):

 

African Americans made up 42% of death row inmates while making up only 12% of the general population.

They have made up 34% of those actually executed since 1976.

 

More damningly, blacks and whites were the victims of murder in almost equal numbers (42% v 44%), yet 80 % of the people executed since 1977 were convicted of murders involving white victims.

 

Backed with these factual statistics, if you are seriously saying that the American constitution regarding the death penalty is not institutionally racist in its application, then there is something seriously wrong with you.

 

ALL US citizens who support the death penalty should be ashamed of these statistics.

 

India.Arie - Strange Fruit (2008) (cover of the Billie Holliday standard)

 

Southern trees bear a strange fruit,

Blood on the leaves and blood at the root,

Black bodies swinging in the Southern breeze,

Strange fruit hanging from the poplar trees.

 

Pastoral scene of the gallant South,

The bulging eyes and the twisted mouth,

Scent of magnolias, sweet and fresh,

Then the sudden smell of burning flesh!

 

Here is a fruit for the crows to pluck,

For the rain to gather, for the wind to suck,

For the sun to rot, for the trees to drop,

Here is a strange and bitter crop.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------

 

N.W.A. - Express Yourself (1989)

 

 

 

Last time I checked we were talking about Britain, secondly I used the OJ Simpson scenario because he has basically admitted to killing his wife, after he was proven innocent. So I suggest you look that up before you just tear bits and pieces of my opinion to make me seem part of a Southern racist agenda. And let me say again that I DID NOT DECIDE WHO WAS EXECUTED. So I fail to see (again) how these statistics make me racist! Last time I checked the punishment was decided by a small group of people and a judge...so I guess those people make the WHOLE Southern population racist? There are plenty of BLACK PEOPLE who agree with the death penalty, so I guess they are racist as well, right? I am not saying that the South is a little pocket full of sunshine, we do suffer from racism, homophobia, and sexist individuals. ALL OF AMERICA/ THE WORLD DOES! But just because I say that people who have killed numerous people, show no remorse for their actions, brag about the killing and so on deserve to be executed! White, black, yellow, red, I DON'T CARE, if you fit that MENTAL description then there you go, but it has NOTHING to do with race when it comes to my PERSONAL opinion. Just because where I live more Afro-carribean people have been given that judgement, does not make me racist!

 

I question your common sense by you thinking that EVERY SINGLE person in an area fits a statistic.

Its ridiculous how well people are treated in prisons.

They have such easy lifes with playstations, tv, food etc all given to them.

Yes absoloutely.

 

The threat of being jailed isn't a big enough deterrent for these chavs. Why scrounge around trying to make ends meet when you can be thrown in prison where you have food made for you, access to televisions and games consoles and from what I here, access to drugs?

 

Yes there's a lack of freedom in prison but it has routine and stability. Therefore many of these chavs like the idea of these criminal universities. They can be with people similar to them and learn more tricks of the trade. Prison in itself doesn't re-habilitate prisoners anyway.

 

Maybe these chav scum will think twice about killing people for 'fun' if they would lose their lives as a consequence. If they can take someone else's life then surely that constitutes for them to lose their own life?

I've re-read this thread, and I think your comment regarding OJ Simpson says it all really.

 

I strongly suggest you check out the history of Capitol punishment within America, going back to setting up of the US Constitution and it's association hand & hand with the slave trade.

 

According to official Amnesty International figures (stats from the end of 2003):

 

African Americans made up 42% of death row inmates while making up only 12% of the general population.

They have made up 34% of those actually executed since 1976.

 

More damningly, blacks and whites were the victims of murder in almost equal numbers (42% v 44%), yet 80 % of the people executed since 1977 were convicted of murders involving white victims.

 

Backed with these factual statistics, if you are seriously saying that the American constitution regarding the death penalty is not institutionally racist in its application, then there is something seriously wrong with you.

 

ALL US citizens who support the death penalty should be ashamed of these statistics.

 

India.Arie - Strange Fruit (2008) (cover of the Billie Holliday standard)

 

 

Southern trees bear a strange fruit,

Blood on the leaves and blood at the root,

Black bodies swinging in the Southern breeze,

Strange fruit hanging from the poplar trees.

 

Pastoral scene of the gallant South,

The bulging eyes and the twisted mouth,

Scent of magnolias, sweet and fresh,

Then the sudden smell of burning flesh!

 

Here is a fruit for the crows to pluck,

For the rain to gather, for the wind to suck,

For the sun to rot, for the trees to drop,

Here is a strange and bitter crop.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------

 

N.W.A. - Express Yourself (1989)

 

Spot on TiP.. It's all very well for Tyler to make his comments, but the realities of how the Death Penalty is adminstered in the US is pure, unadulterated, Institutionalised Racism, nothing more, nothing less.. To support such a system is, at best, foolish and misguided, at worst a de-facto supporter of institutionalised, state racism. The so-called "justice" system in America is completely anti Black/Hispanic/Poor...

 

O J Simpson only got away with it because he was the one African American who could afford a good lawyer.... <_<

 

 

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT BRITAIN, FOR THE THIRD TIME!

 

I make my comment and then the tables are turned on me to be some racist redneck, which is HARDLY the case.

I make my comment and then the tables are turned on me to be some racist redneck, which is HARDLY the case.

 

You hardly do yourself any favours by tacitly supporting a racist/redneck institution such as a State Legislature which is Pro-Death Penalty when the sentence is used in such a clearly ethno-centric manner, majority of white murderers are given life sentences, majority of black/hispanic murderers are given the electric chair/lethal injection, it's a pretty simple equation....

 

I am against the Death Penalty, because it is used by states, all states, as a tool to subjugate certain races, classes and castes of people, it is used by undemocratic regimes to silence opposition... It has been used in this manner in just about EVERY country that has ever had a death sentence, including the UK (plenty of examples throughout history)....

 

Yes, the individual can be responsible for some pretty heinous crimes, but that just pales into insignificance compared to the crimes that a State or Govt is capable of committing.

A stupid idea :w00t: Killers are not afraid of dying... A death penalty should motivate them more by the non-humanity of the laws :lol:

We cannot answer crimes with other crimes... We should combate crimes with a more social understanding of the persons that make the society be at risk :arrr: But we cannot kill persons that are killing persons, because we become worse than they are :wacko:

So please, do close this subject because I find it really hilarious ^_^ xox.

You hardly do yourself any favours by tacitly supporting a racist/redneck institution such as a State Legislature which is Pro-Death Penalty when the sentence is used in such a clearly ethno-centric manner, majority of white murderers are given life sentences, majority of black/hispanic murderers are given the electric chair/lethal injection, it's a pretty simple equation....

 

I am against the Death Penalty, because it is used by states, all states, as a tool to subjugate certain races, classes and castes of people, it is used by undemocratic regimes to silence opposition... It has been used in this manner in just about EVERY country that has ever had a death sentence, including the UK (plenty of examples throughout history)....

 

Yes, the individual can be responsible for some pretty heinous crimes, but that just pales into insignificance compared to the crimes that a State or Govt is capable of committing.

 

I know where I stand and I have already validated my opinion stating that I am not for racist executions. But some people on here are rather dense considering I have said this about several times now. I never said that I supported America's current laws or ways of dealing with these executions.

 

I'm done with repeating myself, I have basically been saying this in everyone of my replies, you aren't going to convince me that my opinion is wrong, so just simply get over it. At the same time I agree with you on the fact that MOST countries legal system are f***ed up, nothing's ever going to be perfect, but it doesn't keep me from supporting one idea and not the whole government.

 

We should combate crimes with a more social understanding of the persons that make the society be at risk

 

Not too sure what that means. I translate that as 'lets pussyfoot around the offender' which to be honest - that is the way it is today anyway. I'm not being facetious by the way but it does seem that the offenders these days get more consideration than the victims and victims' families.

 

But then when you sit down in the cold light of day and imagine somebody being clinically executed, with an audience there, and a medical examiner - to make sure 'its done correctly' you think - no that is wrong. But in my case it is not a moral disgust - it is a feeling of humanity - the way that I'd feel if a healthy animal was being put down at the vets. But the important word is humanity - and most murderers don't seem to have any.

 

Norma

Edited March 21, 200817 yr by Norma_Snockers

I never said that I supported America's current laws or ways of dealing with these executions.

 

But indirectly, that is precisely what you're doing by supporting a Death Penalty... If you cant see that, you're blind to the realities of how these things are being conducted in your name my friend... I aint saying you're a redneck or a racist, but you are certainly misguided if you don't see the simple facts of how the sentence is enforced; it is discriminatory, on two levels in your country - on race and on class - to support such a capricious, undemocratic system of "law" (which you are, like it or not) is foolish and should be unacceptable to any civilised person; and flies in the face of the democratic principles upon which your country is supposedly founded....

 

"all men are created equal"... It says so in your own Bill of Rights..... But this certainly is NOT the reality in American courts. Rich WASPs are "more equal than others" (to quote Orwell...)...