Posted May 20, 200817 yr oh my after watching 'dispatches' last night that focused on the uks fundamentalist christian movement (of which one bint (a barrister) is responsable for the current vote on lowering the abortion date to 20 weeks), i was APPAULED by the way these establishments brainwash little kids. teaching INFANTS that only the bible is right, with complete disregard for what science tells us (ie the earth is between 6-10 thousand years old... when science proves beyond doubt that its billions of years old), is simply wrong. brainwashing infants into believeing that sinners get turned into a pillar of salt, telling them that that DID happen... this is pure EVIL. god supposed (in christianity) to have given us free choice, but these adults are taking away that free choice for those unfortunate kids, it is abuse, it stinks and it is wrong.... very very wrong. although the prog featured christian schools i have little doubt that it also goes on in faith schools from other faiths... it is totally wrong to indoctrinate little kids with fear, supersticion and plain bull$h!te.
May 20, 200817 yr When I was in reception I was apparently taught that death was something to look forward to... :manson: I came home and told my mum and she was a bit "erm ok" about it all... That was at a Catholic school when I was either four or five.
May 20, 200817 yr I watched last nights 'Dispatches', too. I too was horrified at how the Christian Faith School was allowed to teach Children that The Earth is only 6,000 to 10,000 Years old, & that the Moon is the same age. That 'people who sin' get turned into Pillars Of Salt - when, I think that only ONE is actually mentioned in The Bible - Lot's Wife. She did not 'Sin', anyhow. Her Husband told her not to look back at Sodom & Gomorrah, as they fled the places - while 'God' destroyed those Cities. She was curious, turned back to look, & was turned into a Pillar of Salt. Hardly a SIN! I am NOT saying that I believe The Bible - but, I have read it, as I know that many Christians use it to be intolerant, & it is best to know what their Book says, so that you can argue back. (I have read The Koran too). In fact, the Christians in the Programme distorted Islam too - it is not actually 'against' Jesus. Muslims believe that both he & Mohammed were Messengers of God. They also believe that he was born to the Virgin Mary. They just do not believe that he died on the Cross, & was resurrected from the dead. Or that he was 'The Son Of God'. The Christians in the Programme made it sound like Jesus etc. has no place in Islam. It is the other way around - Christianity has no place for Mohammed. I am neither a Muslim nor a Christian, but I like to understand what other people believe. I do NOT think that Children should be taught either Christianity or Islam at School - and certainly not in Faith Schools - filling their heads with extremist, unscientific, intolerant, nonsense. IF people want to be taught about Religion, they should be allowed to make that choice as an Adult - from 18 onwards - not to have it forced into their Minds, when they are 5, 6 or 7 - that is WRONG. I thought it hilarious whan that Guy in glasses - who even prayed before eating food in a CAFE! - admited that he's a Virgin - at 26! He said that he refuses to think about Females in a sexual way - but said he'll have Sex when he gets a Wife - and HOW will he get one, when the ONLY Women he meets will be as repressed as he is? If HE got a Wife, they'd both be likely to wear Nuclear Protection Suits - in bed! Edited May 20, 200817 yr by zeus555
May 20, 200817 yr Author I watched last nights 'Dispatches', too. I too was horrified at how the Christian Faith School was allowed to teach Children that The Earth is only 6,000 to 10,000 Years old, & that the Moon is the same age. That 'people who sin' get turned into Pillars Of Salt - when, I think that only ONE is actually mentioned in The Bible - Lot's Wife. She did not 'Sin', anyhow. Her Husband told her not to look back at Sodom & Gomorrah, as they fled the places - while 'God' destroyed those Cities. She was curious, turned back to look, & was turned into a Pillar of Salt. Hardly a SIN! I am NOT saying that I believe The Bible - but, I have read it, as I know that many Christians use it to be intolerant, & it is best to know what their Book says, so that you can argue back. (I have read The Koran too). In fact, the Christians in the Programme distorted Islam too - it is not actually 'against' Jesus. Muslims believe that both he & Mohammed were Messengers of God. They also believe that he was born to the Virgin Mary. They just do not believe that he died on the Cross, & was resurrected from the dead. Or that he was 'The Son Of God'. The Christians in the Programme made it sound like Jesus etc. has no place in Islam. It is the other way around - Christianity has no place for Mohammed. I am neither a Muslim nor a Christian, but I like to understand what other people believe. I do NOT think that Children should be taught either Christianity or Islam at School - and certainly not in Faith Schools - filling their heads with extremist, unscientific, intolerant, nonsense. IF people want to be taught about Religion, they should be allowed to make that choice as an Adult - from 18 onwards - not to have it forced into their Minds, when they are 5, 6 or 7 - that is WRONG. I thought it hilarious whan that Guy in glasses - who even prayed before eating food in a CAFE! - admited that he's a Virgin - at 26! He said that he refuses to think about Females in a sexual way - but said he'll have Sex when he gets a Wife - and HOW will he get one, when the ONLY Women he meets will be as repressed as he is? If HE got a Wife, they'd both be likely to wear Nuclear Protection Suits - in bed! spot on as usual m8.... and there was their veiws on homosexuality, the way they leafletted gay gatherings telling them they are sinning. the best bit was when the interviewer asked the mp woman who they were usuing to promote their anti-abortion agenda if she knew what that barrister womans views were on islam and homosexuality... again the idiot couldnt give an answer. i think its very very dangerous for these wooly minded fools to be allowed free speech, the agenda they are spreading as 'the truth' is anything but the truth. that guy they featured was unstable, switching from compliant to anti at any instant he might have been seen in a bad light, or a difficult to answer question.
May 21, 200817 yr Speaking as someone who had to suffer a Catholic Primary school education (thankfully my parents saw sense and put me in a SECULAR Secondary School..) I can absolutely attest to pretty much EVERYTHING that this prog was saying... I honestly would've thought that in the 20-odd years since I was at Primary then things may have progressed in how these Religious Schools conduct their affairs, they seem to have gotten WORSE if anything... And I am sick of the "walking on eggshells" attitude of this Govt to be honest. What we are talking about here is nothing more or less than the brainwashing and indoctrination of impressionable children.. Would we allow a school to be established on a POLITICAL philiosophy...? Would we allow Labour Party Schools? Conservative Party Schools...? BNP Schools.............? Perish the thought, and rightly so... But frankly, what's the diff...? This is surely as bad as the Hitler Youth; or what the likes of Mao or Stalin did in schools in Communist countries... Religious Schools, whatever their hue, whether Catholic, Anglican, Bhuddist, Islamic, Jewish... Are just WRONG!!!! Schools are STATE institutions, and in this DEMOCRATIC, SECULAR country which we supposedly are, I think it is about high time we completely separated Church from State.... There was a Saudi Arabian University Lecturer interviewed by Morgan Spurlock in his recent documentary who said on camera (and more than likely at great risk to his own safety...) that those who have a religious position have no right to hold Public Office because they are completely separate ideologies.... Well, that's Ruth "Opus Dei" Kelly fukked..... :lol: :lol: I am completely 100% opposed to religious schools. Schools are about education, not indoctrination..... Any school which is found to be pushing a particular religious or political ideology on kids should be shut down IMO, if parents want to take their kids to Church, Mosque, Temple, Synagogue to learn religious teachings, then that is their prerogative, it HAS NO PLACE however in a State School..... Do you get taught Maths, Science or Geography in Church or Mosque....? Uh, nope.....
May 21, 200817 yr I thought it hilarious whan that Guy in glasses - who even prayed before eating food in a CAFE! - admited that he's a Virgin - at 26! He said that he refuses to think about Females in a sexual way - but said he'll have Sex when he gets a Wife - and HOW will he get one, when the ONLY Women he meets will be as repressed as he is? If HE got a Wife, they'd both be likely to wear Nuclear Protection Suits - in bed! :lol: :lol: In all seriousness though mate, I actually feel really sorry for this bloke.. This is the proof (if any really be needed) of how brainwashing kids at an early age with all this religious bollocks is going to seriously scar them psychologically for life and leave them utterly incapable of living a healthy, everyday life.. And, YES having CONSENTUAL, ADULT, SEXUAL RELATIONSHIPS is part of a healthy, everyday existence for any of the naysayers out there who are idiotic enough to believe that this person is really living a full and healthy existence....
May 21, 200817 yr I went to a Catholic school just because it was the best school available and i believed all the stuff they told us at first but there are so many contradictions in their stories it wasn't long before i realised it was all rubbish.
May 21, 200817 yr there are so many contradictions in their stories it wasn't long before i realised it was all rubbish. Not everyone's like you or me though mate.. We saw through the lies when we were old enough to think for ourselves, for others, the conditioning is just too deep-rooted and ingrained... It needs to be stopped, it is totally unnacceptable to me that children are exposed to this baseless, superstitious voodoo when they should be getting is a balanced education...
May 21, 200817 yr Speaking as someone who had to suffer a Catholic Primary school education (thankfully my parents saw sense and put me in a SECULAR Secondary School..) I can absolutely attest to pretty much EVERYTHING that this prog was saying... I honestly would've thought that in the 20-odd years since I was at Primary then things may have progressed in how these Religious Schools conduct their affairs, they seem to have gotten WORSE if anything... And I am sick of the "walking on eggshells" attitude of this Govt to be honest. What we are talking about here is nothing more or less than the brainwashing and indoctrination of impressionable children.. Would we allow a school to be established on a POLITICAL philiosophy...? Would we allow Labour Party Schools? Conservative Party Schools...? BNP Schools.............? Perish the thought, and rightly so... But frankly, what's the diff...? This is surely as bad as the Hitler Youth; or what the likes of Mao or Stalin did in schools in Communist countries... Religious Schools, whatever their hue, whether Catholic, Anglican, Bhuddist, Islamic, Jewish... Are just WRONG!!!! Schools are STATE institutions, and in this DEMOCRATIC, SECULAR country which we supposedly are, I think it is about high time we completely separated Church from State.... There was a Saudi Arabian University Lecturer interviewed by Morgan Spurlock in his recent documentary who said on camera (and more than likely at great risk to his own safety...) that those who have a religious position have no right to hold Public Office because they are completely separate ideologies.... Well, that's Ruth "Opus Dei" Kelly fukked..... :lol: :lol: I am completely 100% opposed to religious schools. Schools are about education, not indoctrination..... Any school which is found to be pushing a particular religious or political ideology on kids should be shut down IMO, if parents want to take their kids to Church, Mosque, Temple, Synagogue to learn religious teachings, then that is their prerogative, it HAS NO PLACE however in a State School..... Do you get taught Maths, Science or Geography in Church or Mosque....? Uh, nope..... My 12 year-old daughter's at a Catholic all-girls' school simply because it's an excellent school, the best round here and one of the best in the country.
May 22, 200817 yr My 12 year-old daughter's at a Catholic all-girls' school simply because it's an excellent school, the best round here and one of the best in the country. Are you actually a Catholic...? If not, then you're a hypocrite mate... What exactly makes it "the best" anyway...? The League tables..? Exam results...? There's more to education than what a bunch of OFSTEAD inspectors and bureaucrats in Westminster say.... All this "League Tables" malarkay is just a smokescreen, a load of noise distracting people from what's actually important - a well-rounded education. And frankly, I seriously doubt that a school which follows a particular religious or political dogma at its core actually will offer that.. In fact I KNOW it doesn't, my own experiences and experiences of the people in this documentary tell me that.... I'm also suspicious of "single sex" schools as well tbh....
May 22, 200817 yr What exactly makes it "the best" anyway...? The League tables..? Exam results...? There's more to education than what a bunch of OFSTEAD inspectors and bureaucrats in Westminster say.... All this "League Tables" malarkay is just a smokescreen, a load of noise distracting people from what's actually important - a well-rounded education. And frankly, I seriously doubt that a school which follows a particular religious or political dogma at its core actually will offer that.. In fact I KNOW it doesn't, my own experiences and experiences of the people in this documentary tell me that.... oops not falling for the mediyah are we?? I mean nice rounded schools wouldn't make a 'good' documentary now do they?? I teach in a 'faith' school and am quite frankly insulted that anyone would think we don't offer children a rounded education. We have children from a number of different faiths and all are studied and respected. The 'Faith' aspect of schools covers mainly the ethos of a school rather than the whole curriculum. Faith schools have the same legal requirements to teach the whole curriculum (unlike private schools) Faith school still need to have qualified teachers (unlike private schools) and to be honest, if the government had to fund all these schools fully, buy the land from the church, pay for all the things the church does then we would be in a bit of a mess!
May 22, 200817 yr Author oops not falling for the mediyah are we?? I mean nice rounded schools wouldn't make a 'good' documentary now do they?? I teach in a 'faith' school and am quite frankly insulted that anyone would think we don't offer children a rounded education. We have children from a number of different faiths and all are studied and respected. The 'Faith' aspect of schools covers mainly the ethos of a school rather than the whole curriculum. Faith schools have the same legal requirements to teach the whole curriculum (unlike private schools) Faith school still need to have qualified teachers (unlike private schools) and to be honest, if the government had to fund all these schools fully, buy the land from the church, pay for all the things the church does then we would be in a bit of a mess! thats NOT what that documentary told us, and the evidence was there, they were teaching bollox... there seems to be a difference here over what faith schools actually are. i was refering to the extremist types like the one featured in 'dispatches'.
May 22, 200817 yr oops not falling for the mediyah are we?? I mean nice rounded schools wouldn't make a 'good' documentary now do they?? I'm not "falling" for anything in the media.. I'm just saying that a lot of the experiences of the people in this documentary mirror some of my own experiences of Catholic "education" which consisted of a load of propaganda BS, and this seems to be continuing in many faith schools..... I suppose it all depends on if your school teaches bollocks like Creationism or pushes a dogma (however consciously or unconsciously) onto the kids... Both of which are totally wrong IMO.... My own experiences teach me to incredibly suspicious and highly critical of "faith" in schools.... I stand by my point totally, we would never countenance schools which were based upon a Political ideology or ethos, we would never see Tory, Lib Dem or Labour Party Schools, we would never see Communist or Fascist schools.... So, I repeat - what's the difference...? A dogma is a dogma whether religioius or political, it still involves a degree of indoctrination and conditioning... I tend to believe that as far as the education of future generations go there should be a total blank cheque (so, the Govt could buy the land off the church..), it should NEVER be a case of "budgets", a school should NEVER not have enough resources, because, frankly, education is the most important thing in the world, more important than even national security or fighting crime IMO... For, if you get the education of kids right, you will tend to have healthy, well-balanced individuals who can aspire to something, and a better society will exist where crime is practically non-existent.... We used to have a great system of education in this country.... Then Thatcher the milk snatcher got into power..... <_< Of course, however, Nu Labor don't seem to have a bloody clue how to do it either, they've certainly not improved things that's for sure....
May 22, 200817 yr Are you actually a Catholic...? If not, then you're a hypocrite mate... What exactly makes it "the best" anyway...? The League tables..? Exam results...? There's more to education than what a bunch of OFSTEAD inspectors and bureaucrats in Westminster say.... All this "League Tables" malarkay is just a smokescreen, a load of noise distracting people from what's actually important - a well-rounded education. And frankly, I seriously doubt that a school which follows a particular religious or political dogma at its core actually will offer that.. In fact I KNOW it doesn't, my own experiences and experiences of the people in this documentary tell me that.... I'm also suspicious of "single sex" schools as well tbh.... I'm a lapsed Catholic. Used to go as a kid but rebelled and stopped at 14. Went to church weekly to get her in the Catholic primary school though then again to get her in the Catholic senior school but won't go again as I've no reason to. I only went to get her in schools which worked. Don't care what anyone thinks about that. Had to do it so suffered boring weekly masses and First Communion classes when she was 8 to get what we wanted. It's known as the best school round here. St. Angela's Ursuline in Forest Gate by the way. Great GCSE results and the Head, Delia Smith, ( no not that one!) has just got the OBE. Good discipline, respectful girls and they don't seem to ram religion down their throats. The alternative was a c**p school 200 yards from us where the police have to be there every morning and afternoon, stabbings, drugs, fights, awful school. All the girls in her year at primary went there so she wanted to go with her friends. Edited May 22, 200817 yr by Crazy Chris
May 22, 200817 yr thats NOT what that documentary told us, and the evidence was there, they were teaching bollox... there seems to be a difference here over what faith schools actually are. i was refering to the extremist types like the one featured in 'dispatches'. well I would have thought a "faith" school was one based on a religious faith?? like the many Church of England schools, catholic schools, Jewish schools and increasing number of Muslim schools If they are within the state sector then they are legally required to cover the national curriculum. If they are fee paying, private schools then they are not. Perhaps the school featured was private? If not then a quick call to OFSTED would sort the issue. I suppose it all depends on if your school teaches bollocks like Creationism or pushes a dogma (however consciously or unconsciously) onto the kids... Both of which are totally wrong IMO.... My own experiences teach me to incredibly suspicious and highly critical of "faith" in schools....IMO my school does not teach bollocks - and in the opinion of the parents that choose to send their children to us. Freedom of choice to have opinions and to believe in whatever we chose ....... take all the faith schools away and you take away the choice of those parents. For, if you get the education of kids right, you will tend to have healthy, well-balanced individuals who can aspire to something, and a better society will exist where crime is practically non-existent.... We used to have a great system of education in this country.... Then Thatcher the milk snatcher got into power..... Did we??? Labelled at 11 by an arbitary 11+ exam (which was skewed to allow only the number of passes that had grammar school places) Written off at 11 if you failed - allowed to complete secondary education and not be expected to take any exams - not expected to achieve anything?? Our education system may be far from perfect but IMO is hugely improved from the 60s / 70s.
May 22, 200817 yr I do not mind Christians being Christians, & Muslims being Muslims, as long as the more fundementalist aspects of their Religions are not forced into Childrens heads. I went to an ordinary Protestant Secondary Modern School, & I hated Religious Education, as it had so many flaws in it - especially when I did my own research, & found out that of the 4 Gospels in The New Testament, there were originally over 40! Christians just held a Conference, & decided which Gospels to keep & which to dump - a very odd thing for MEN to do, when ALL of it was supposed to be 'The Word of God'! And Christians used to kill each other - because some believed that Jesus & God were two 100% different Beings- Arianism. Others believed that God & Jesus were the 'Essence' of the same Being in one - along with 'The Holy Spirit'. (The Trinity). The Catholic Church - 3 Gods in One Being - argument won in the end. Any Christians who still followed the other view were persecuted - often killed. An odd thing to do in the name of Jesus, whom Christians say was a loving Being! Did they really think that such a Being would approve of them killing or discriminating against other Christians? And the Cathars got massacred in Southern France. They dared to say that Jesus would not approve of a Church & Kings, who were wealthy, whilst the poor were starving etc. The Pope & French King saw this as a huge threat to their status, & authority - so they sent Armies into Southern France, & butchered the Cathars - Men, Women, & Children - in the name of God & Christ. The Cathars also believed that the Earth was Evil & created by a God whom they called Rex Mundi. That the real - True God - the Christian God - was a loving God, & he was in charge of everything good & Spiritual. The Pope etc. regarded all of this as truly appalling - and decided to put a stop to it! 20 Years of massacre & War followed - from 1208 onwards. The Cathars were brutally attacked. Do 'True Christians' think that Jesus would have approved of that? I think NOT! This is what happens when extreme aspects of intolerant Religions take control:, (And I KNOW that a similar thing would happen to many people, if Sharia Islamic Law took over the World. It would be a case of 'Obey Allah's Laws - or go to prison or die!'.). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathar Edited May 23, 200817 yr by zeus555
May 23, 200817 yr IMO my school does not teach bollocks - and in the opinion of the parents that choose to send their children to us. Freedom of choice to have opinions and to believe in whatever we chose ....... take all the faith schools away and you take away the choice of those parents. Did we??? Labelled at 11 by an arbitary 11+ exam (which was skewed to allow only the number of passes that had grammar school places) Written off at 11 if you failed - allowed to complete secondary education and not be expected to take any exams - not expected to achieve anything?? Our education system may be far from perfect but IMO is hugely improved from the 60s / 70s. You didn't quite address the point... Which was the teaching of Creationism, which I (and just about everyone else with a brain) find to be baseless, unscientific rubbish (yeah, cos the Earth is only about 30,000 years old and there were no such things as DINOSAURS eh....? PMSL.....)and such superstitious nonsense has no place filling kids' heads, and shame on your school if it teaches such garbage.... And should parent have the "right" to force a religious dogma on their children...? I seriously question that... Faith, like Political ideologies, should be arrived at when people are older, a bit more mature and can make up their own minds.... I never got taught about Politics until I started hitting my third year at Secondary... I never had an 11+ exam, just a damn good secular Secondary Education, the school I was at had a good mixture of kids from different backgrounds, working class, middle class, Anglo, Asian, there was no such thing as RE or any of that bollocks, they actually educated us instead of indoctrinating us, a total contrast to the Catholic Primary I had to suffer....
May 23, 200817 yr The alternative was a c**p school 200 yards from us where the police have to be there every morning and afternoon, stabbings, drugs, fights, You've just shot your own argument on another thread about all teachers having a "cushy" job with this sentence mate..... -_- I rest my case....
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