May 25, 200817 yr Absolute nonsense, Greece is closer geographically to NORTH AFRICA than it is to Russia or even the old "Eastern Bloc" territories.... If you actually read the UN's study on Europe, Greece is placed in "Southern Continental Europe" along with Spain, Portugal and Italy... I agree with you!
May 25, 200817 yr If you think it's ok for Portugal to end 2nd in semifinal, then 13th in final, and Russia vice versa, then you're "Believing" it too much. :blink: Rubbish. Get your facts straight. Russia finished 3rd in the semi-final so there was no vice versa. The advantage Russia had over Portugal in the final was it's draw in the playing position. Portugal was in the middle and Russia was in the prime second to last spot. Edited May 25, 200817 yr by SkiBaBopBaDopBop
May 25, 200817 yr :blink: Rubbish. Get your facts straight. Russia finished 3rd in the semi-final so there was no vice versa. That's exactly what I mean. Russia didn't even win its semi-final, let alone the rivalry with the songs from other semi-final. There's nothing right in being 3rd (among 19 only!) one day, and 1st (among 25) two days later.
May 25, 200817 yr That's exactly what I mean. Russia didn't even win its semi-final, let alone the rivalry with the songs from other semi-final. There's nothing right in being 3rd (among 19 only!) one day, and 1st (among 25) two days later. Difference is down to the draw. The two countries beating Russia in the semi-final(Armenia and Greece) both had worse draws in the final.
May 25, 200817 yr Let me start by saying I have absolutely no interest in Eurovision and I haven't watched it for years. But from reading this thread I'm guessing the UK's recent failure is down to a combination of factors. I'm not going to comment on the perceived political voting but I would like to say something about the type of songs the UK has been sending in recent years. I'm just wondering whether the age demographic of UK viewers who watch and vote in Eurovision is decidedly different from the age demographic of those who vote in the rest of Europe (particularly in Eastern Europe). I could be way off the mark here but here's my thoughts- In the UK Eurovision is seen as a bit of lighthearted fun. With the exception of people posting on here (sorry!), I never hear many 'youngish' people taking much of an interest either in the preview show where the UK entry is chosen or in the actual contest itself. I have however had the misfortune of hearing the last few UK entries. They either seem to be very childish songs or songs that your mammy would like. Is it possible that the UK viewers who bother to pick up the phone to vote in the Making Your Mind Up show are the under 12s and the over 40s? We then end up with a song that in the main appeals to those particular age groups? But in Eastern Europe, where the contest is taken a lot more seriously, it's the teenagers and 20, 30 somethings who are doing the bulk of the voting? So when the actual contest arrives, the UK entry sinks without trace as it has no appeal to the age group who are doing the bulk of the voting across Europe? Can we not do away with the Making Your Mind Up Show (and types like John Barrowman spouting forth) and just commission the guys who write pop songs for Girls Aloud/Sugababes etc to come up with a catchy toon? Then get an Act who is well known throughout Europe to sing it (lots of bribe money may be required I grant you :P ). We probably still won't win but at least we should get to about mid-table. :lol: Edited May 25, 200817 yr by Jupiter9
May 25, 200817 yr Difference is down to the draw. The two countries beating Russia in the semi-final(Armenia and Greece) both had worse draws in the final. Greece didn't have worse draw! And don't tell me Norway came 5th just because they performed last. Honestly, that theory about voting for similar musical taste is blah-blah. I don't blame you, because you don't live here in the Eastern part of Europe and thus you can't get any idea of how it works. ex-Yugo countries were once one big country - Yugoslavia - and ex-USSR countries all were linked to USSR (Bulgaria and Romania as well, though distantly). People who vote now are mostly elderly persons who still remember that Croatia and Serbia were one country in the past, that Russia and Belarus was one, and these people consider the neighbouring countries their "brothers". It's not only about similar musical taste and culture; there are strong political grounds.
May 25, 200817 yr Greece didn't have worse draw! And don't tell me Norway came 5th just because they performed last. Honestly, that theory about voting for similar musical taste is blah-blah. I don't blame you, because you don't live here in the Eastern part of Europe and thus you can't get any idea of how it works. ex-Yugo countries were once one big country - Yugoslavia - and ex-USSR countries all were linked to USSR (Bulgaria and Romania as well, though distantly). People who vote now are mostly elderly persons who still remember that Croatia and Serbia were one country in the past, that Russia and Belarus was one, and these people consider the neighbouring countries their "brothers". It's not only about similar musical taste and culture; there are strong political grounds. Oh well, if it's mostly elderly people voting in Eastern Europe that blows my theory out the window! We need to bring back Cliff Richard! :w00t:
May 25, 200817 yr Author I can't agree at all with this - Javine is the sort of firey, sexy pop which is absolutely perfect for Eurovision. That song's failure to do anything proves how tactical the voting is, as if we didn't know anyway. :heehee: The song may have been alright, but the performance was dreadful.
May 25, 200817 yr Yeah I didn't really like Javine that year, it was ok but it was nothing special. It didn't have anything that made it stand out.
May 25, 200817 yr Author That's exactly what I mean. Russia didn't even win its semi-final, let alone the rivalry with the songs from other semi-final. There's nothing right in being 3rd (among 19 only!) one day, and 1st (among 25) two days later. But how many people watch the semi-finals compared to the finals? Your argument is completely flawed. If the semi's are watched by and voted in by as much as a third of the final I'd be incredibly surprised. Adding another 200% of peoples tastes to vote and you'd get one HELL of a difference in overall taste!
May 25, 200817 yr Author I've found something else interesting about the Russians. So far this decade they've finished in the top 5 five times, each one of them they sent a high profile performer (Alsou, Tatu, Sebrero and Dima Bulan x2). The last time they sent an unkown they came 15th.
May 25, 200817 yr Greece didn't have worse draw! And don't tell me Norway came 5th just because they performed last. Again. Get your facts straight. Greece has the best draw in the semi-final being last, they did not have that advantage in the final. I'm not sure what you are saying about Norway(as I have not mentioned the subject), but Norway performing last was definitely a benefit to them.
May 25, 200817 yr Author Of course it was. Being second was also bad for us. By the end of the contest I couldn;t even remember what it went like, and it was one of just two songs I'd heard previously!
May 25, 200817 yr my Europop dissertation had a chapter which basically reiterates what you said Mark, about cultural tastes and not politics coming into play in ESC...there are more Eastern than Western countries so its obvious that the results will be more Eastern weighted to the tastes of the East
May 25, 200817 yr A great post Mark, summed up exactly what many people on here believe, but can never be arsed to keep on regurgitating every time an ill-informed newbie arrives. ^_^
May 25, 200817 yr Author Thanks! ^_^ I'm glad a lot of people agree. Funny how it's the one's who follow Eurovision and not the ones that maybe take an hours interest every year, eh....
May 25, 200817 yr Yup, I said this last year too. Greed is largely at stake - the UK's Eurovision bosses are happy to send anyone as long as the public have to phone a premium number to get their choice. In order to get the numbers watching the show they'll also stick in loads of people the public have heard of - even though they're $h!t. Take that away and they can choose an unknown themselves who might have a chance of writing a decent song and performing it well on the night.
May 25, 200817 yr my Europop dissertation had a chapter which basically reiterates what you said Mark, about cultural tastes and not politics coming into play in ESC...there are more Eastern than Western countries so its obvious that the results will be more Eastern weighted to the tastes of the East No, results will be no Western countries at all anymore. Only 6 countries will win from now on, under these rules: Russia, Serbia, Greece, Turkey, Ukraine and Armenia. The only one that hasn't got its victory yet is Armenia and it will happen next year, mark my words! Then the cycle will be renewed: again Turkey, Ukraine, Greece, and so on.
May 26, 200817 yr Hi all. Interesting thread and points about the ESC and I thought I'd register to add some math I did tonight. Might not be the perfect math, but hey...out of curiosity :) (By the way, Russian myself, I didn't like Dima Bilan's song, and to tell you the truth couldn't even finish listening to his semi-final performance, due to my perfect pitch :). Though, he was much more in tune in the final. I liked the Ukraine, and the UK songs, among some others, and voted for Georgia. This is only my taste and it is subjective as all music competitions) Anyway, back to the reason why I wanted to write. Final points: Russia - 174 + 98 (26 + 72 (6 by 12pt) from ex-USSR). 6 countries gave 0 Ukraine - 160 + 70 (ex-USSR). 7 countries gave 0 Greece - 167 + 24 (2 by 12pt by Albania and Cyprus, which is the same "USSR" for Greece every year) + 27 (ex-USSR). 6 countries gave 0 Armenia - 159 + 40 (ex-USSR). 15 countries gave 0 Norway - 126 + 56 (ex-USSR). 8 countries gave 0 Based on this "analysis", diaspora/political voting helped only Ukraine to beat Greece among top scorers. Cheers
May 26, 200817 yr Well unfairly it as won the Mother of the east countries. If this eurovision continues with voting neighbours,this kind of entertainment will fall and lose quality. What is happening with the east countries happened with the west side many years ago,the east countries gives so much importance like the western countries gave many years,because they know that could win now if a western country like Portugal have only one neighbours its obvious that will never win even if the music is the best of all. Portugal had an advantage in the semi-final because it performanced in last,a song that is showed last and is really good will obviously make the people changing their choices,how was made the Final list order?? Its really unfair. Israel,Azerbeijan and Russia is Europe??? if not then why they participate in eurovision?? Edited May 26, 200817 yr by Odaisul
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