Posted June 1, 200817 yr Eurovision result 'racist' says Terry Wogan By Chris Hastings and Beth Jones Telegraph Online Last Updated: 12:40AM BST 01/06/2008 Terry Wogan has blamed "racist" Eastern Europeans for Britain's dismal showing in the Eurovision Song Contest. The veteran broadcaster, who hosts the BBC's coverage of the event, claimed that Andy Abraham, the British entrant, had finished in last place because Eastern Europeans could not bring themselves to vote for a black singer. In his column in today's Sunday Telegraph, Wogan argues: "The elephant in the room was our singer Andy Abraham's colour. East of the Danube, they won't be voting for any black singer any day soon." He added: "Those who care [about the contest] will have had it up to here with the blatant political voting from the former satellites of the USSR that awarded this year's event to Russia, and the even more scandalous lack of votes for the UK entry." None of the 22 Eastern European countries awarded a single vote to Abraham and his song Even If, even though commentators generally considered him to have given one of the best performances. He scored 14 points, finishing joint last with the German entry, No Angels, a band featuring two black vocalists. Eastern European diplomats in London denied that racism had played any part. Irena Dimitrova, Bulgaria's cultural attaché, accepted that there were very few black people in Bulgaria but insisted that race was not a factor. She said: "We are a very serious country when it comes to our music. We are very well educated musically and we like black music." Eerik Marmei, the deputy head of the Estonian embassy in London, said: "I would say the accusation of racism is totally rubbish." Artur Orzech, a Polish music journalist who has hosted that country's television coverage since 1992 said: "The real problem is the televoting which has thrown open the voting to the public. The voting is very political and geographic. As Napoleon once said, democracy is too important to give to the people." Abraham, 43, the runner-up on the second series of The X Factor, last night agreed that race wasn't an issue. He said: "I do think some of the voting might be to do with the issue of bias which people in the media have been talking about. But I have no control over how the voting works." The only black musician to have been part of a winning entry is Dave Benton, a member of the band that won for Estonia in 2001. Black British entrants have struggled in recent years. In 1998, when just eight Eastern countries took part, the black British entrant Imaani came second, scoring full marks from Croatia and Romania. However in 2005, Javine, the black singer representing Britain, came 22nd with her song Touch My Fire after receiving "nul point" from 17 Eastern European countries. Barry Viniker, who runs Esctoday.com, a Eurovision fansite, said: "I don't think there's an intrinsic racism problem but I think there might be a lack of understanding. "The problem is that many of the Eastern bloc countries don't have black or minority communities and maybe that is an issue." Do you agree or disagree with Terry Wogan?
June 1, 200817 yr Author Terry Wogan's World By Terry Wogan Telegraph.co.uk Last Updated: 12:01am BST 01/06/2008 Vienna in the rain: thousands of soaked Japanese tourists scurry between palaces and cafes, Lipizzaner horses and museums, schnitzel and coffee. Most of them seem to end up, like myself, at the State Opera House, where two of the leads and several members of the chorus are also from the Far East. I'll bet that when Donizetti wrote L'elisir d'amore he didn't envision a tenor from China and a baritone from Japan. The only disappointing thing about Vienna is the Danube: that far-from-blue water flowing through the centre of the Hapsburgs' great city is... the canal. The brothers Strauss had to walk a couple of miles out of town for inspiration and a sight of Donau blu. The great river makes a better show in Belgrade, which stands on the confluence of the Danube and the Sava, but sadly, it doesn't seem to have inspired any great Serbian music, and it certainly didn't for this year's Eurovision Song Contest. Those who care, will have had it up to here with the blatantly political voting from the former satellites of the USSR that awarded this year's event to Russia, and the even more scandalous lack of votes for the UK. "Royaume Uni - sans amis." Certainly, our lack of close border ties with other countries hasn't helped our cause, and our millions of expats in Spain and France don't seem inclined to help, but the "elephant in the room" was our singer, Andy Abraham's, colour. East of the Danube, they won't be voting for a black singer any day soon. Can changes be made, to effect a fairer voting system? Why are the countries that have been knocked out in the semi-finals allowed to vote in the final, consolidating the bloc voting? (Oops, the UK's meagre 14 points came from San Marino and Ireland, neither of whom made the final.) I doubt if the European Broadcasting Union will change anything, the political Eurosong is the gem in its diadem, and it won't upset the Eastern applecart. Neither the BBC nor the UK are likely to pull out, unlike Austria or Italy. There's only one thing to be done: go in with guns blazing. Select an established British performer who is popular all over Europe: Elton, Robbie, Take That, The Police - there are tons to choose from. Tell 'em it's for God and country. If the British music industry can't swing even one of our major acts to represent the country at the Eurovision, we're really wasting our time.
June 1, 200817 yr He's such an idiot, he really is. As I said in the other thread, Estonia sent a black singer in 2001 and won ffs, all countries voted for him and Estonia aside from Portugal. :manson: And that included 12 pointers from Lithuania, Latvia, Turkey, Slovenia, Poland and Greece. All "eastern" countries. And wtf is this part all about? :mellow: Black British entrants have struggled in recent years. In 1998, when just eight Eastern countries took part, the black British entrant Imaani came second, scoring full marks from Croatia and Romania. Slightly contradictory? We also got ten from Macedonia that year I seem to remember, 12 from Turkey and ten from Hungary. And this was the year in which televoting was used in most countries... Andy may have given a good performance, but the song was bland - end of.
June 1, 200817 yr I wonder if Andy failing to make the top 40 of his own country will help Terry to realise that the entry was really a mistake? :rolleyes:
June 1, 200817 yr oh dear :lol: any excuse is clearly good enough for Terry...racism...ridiculous if Rihanna entered on behalf of the UK I'm sure we would come top five
June 1, 200817 yr terry needs to accept that andy's song was terrible and thats why it came last,i agree with him about the voting but i would mean the voting in general but as for this years uk entry in my opinion it got 14 points too may,,,, the sales of the single in the uk reflect the song also it wa sin general not liked,,the worst Uk eurovision chart performance for a very long time
June 2, 200817 yr I for one think he's actually right. Why should he shut up? He has a right to air his opinions.
June 2, 200817 yr Oh dear, I've heard it all now..... :lol: :lol: What an unmitigated FOOL.... Considering that EE countries cant get enough of BLACK American Rap Artists and the like, to play the race card is incredibly foolish and downright innaccurate... Andy Abraham lost BECAUSE HE SUCKED BIG TIME (like Scooch SUCKED, like Jemini SUCKED, like Daz Sampson SUCKED, like "stubbly man" SUCKED, like Javine SUCKED. Is it not time we started GETTING REAL??......) [/b]The fact that no bugger even in THIS country actually bought or downloaded his piece-of-sh!t record completely blows Wogan's arguments out of the water.... Didn't Israel come in the Top 10 this year...? Didn't Turkey do well also...? -_- Racism...? Stop making an arse of yourself Wogan and just shut the fukk up..... Please..... -_-
June 2, 200817 yr I for one think he's actually right. Why should he shut up? He has a right to air his opinions. He has a right to air his opinions, but his opinions are ill-educated (despite his 'years of experience') and are easily proved wrong - for a start, even the British didn't like our song, as proved by the fact it was the first since 1989 to not even go top 40; as well as the fact that a black person has actually won the contest - Estonia 2001 - and received top marks from all over Europe, not just the West. The man is morally patronising, and has a horrid belief that because we are from Western Europe we're superior in some odd sense. He frankly does just need to shut up because his arguments are just getting weaker by the day...
June 2, 200817 yr In all honesty, it's a hideously skewed article, you only have to do brief analysis of it to see where: In his column in today's Sunday Telegraph, Wogan argues: "The elephant in the room was our singer Andy Abraham's colour. East of the Danube, they won't be voting for any black singer any day soon." Oh dear, what was that? Where did Bulgaria's 12 go? Oh yes, to NO ANGELS, a group with 2 black members! :rolleyes: He added: "Those who care [about the contest] will have had it up to here with the blatant political voting from the former satellites of the USSR that awarded this year's event to Russia, and the even more scandalous lack of votes for the UK entry." Yes, all that political voting...strange, didn't most of Western Europe vote for Russia too? -_- And most of the ex-Commonwealth didn't vote for Andy...awww, what's that Terry, sad because it doesn't seem to work both ways? :manson: None of the 22 Eastern European countries awarded a single vote to Abraham and his song Even If, even though commentators generally considered him to have given one of the best performances. Yes, and 19 of the 21 Western European countries didn't award him a single vote either! :rolleyes: And who are these commentators? Terry? That was a singular last time I checked...how many of these commentators are British? Granted, it was a good performance, but hardly one of the best! He scored 14 points, finishing joint last with the German entry, No Angels, a band featuring two black vocalists. Mmmhmm, two black vocalists...who happened to be part of a band that gave easily the worst performance of the night. My ears are still recovering from the horrors of that performance, and The Telegraph have the nerve to imply that it was their colour that was responsible for the bad result? :manson: The only black musician to have been part of a winning entry is Dave Benton, a member of the band that won for Estonia in 2001. The ratio would probably be higher were it not for the fact that barely any black musicians have entered the contest -_- However in 2005, Javine, the black singer representing Britain, came 22nd with her song Touch My Fire after receiving "nul point" from 17 Eastern European countries. And, forgive me, but didn't she also receive "nul point" from the majority of Western European countries, as well as give an awful performance to boot? Give it up Terry, your argument is baseless!
June 2, 200817 yr The man is morally patronising, and has a horrid belief that because we are from Western Europe we're superior in some odd sense. Spot on mate... ..And isn't this assumption in itself, well, slightly racist...? :mellow:
June 2, 200817 yr Oh dear, what was that? Where did Bulgaria's 12 go? Oh yes, to NO ANGELS, a group with 2 black members! :rolleyes: Just to correct you, the "douze point" went to Lucy, the Bulgarian member of the group and jury of Bulgarian "Pop Idol". Since it's the TV show with highest rating in the country now, the kids who watch it were systematically manipulated by the hosts to vote for Lucy in Eurovision. Most Bulgarians are not familiar with NO ANGELS' songs, and don't even know the names of the other members.
June 2, 200817 yr Spot on mate... ..And isn't this assumption in itself, well, slightly racist...? :mellow: Not at all. It's incredibly racist. As far as I'm concerned these comments by Terry Wogan have pretty much made the probability of coming last again a hell of a lot greater. Who in their right mind from say, Armenia or Ukraine would vote for a country whose face of the competition comes out with c**p like this!
June 2, 200817 yr In all honesty, it's a hideously skewed article, you only have to do brief analysis of it to see where: Oh dear, what was that? Where did Bulgaria's 12 go? Oh yes, to NO ANGELS, a group with 2 black members! :rolleyes: Yes, all that political voting...strange, didn't most of Western Europe vote for Russia too? -_- And most of the ex-Commonwealth didn't vote for Andy...awww, what's that Terry, sad because it doesn't seem to work both ways? :manson: Yes, and 19 of the 21 Western European countries didn't award him a single vote either! :rolleyes: And who are these commentators? Terry? That was a singular last time I checked...how many of these commentators are British? Granted, it was a good performance, but hardly one of the best! Mmmhmm, two black vocalists...who happened to be part of a band that gave easily the worst performance of the night. My ears are still recovering from the horrors of that performance, and The Telegraph have the nerve to imply that it was their colour that was responsible for the bad result? :manson: The ratio would probably be higher were it not for the fact that barely any black musicians have entered the contest -_- And, forgive me, but didn't she also receive "nul point" from the majority of Western European countries, as well as give an awful performance to boot? Give it up Terry, your argument is baseless! I completely agree with you Trashley seriously, who votes for a song based on skin colour...it wouldn't even cross my mind. I do think its a shame that we don't see more black performers in the contest actually. R&B is one of the biggest genres in the world and amny countries have huge local markets especially France and Germany, so it would be nice to see the genre represented more in the contest
June 2, 200817 yr Just to correct you, the "douze point" went to Lucy, the Bulgarian member of the group and jury of Bulgarian "Pop Idol". Since it's the TV show with highest rating in the country now, the kids who watch it were systematically manipulated by the hosts to vote for Lucy in Eurovision. Most Bulgarians are not familiar with NO ANGELS' songs, and don't even know the names of the other members. Well yes, I did know that :heehee: My point was though that if racism was that deeply rooted in the Eastern European conscious then not even the fact that there was a Bulgarian in the group would persuade them to vote for a group with two black members, showing that Wogan clearly hasn't got a clue what he's on about ;)
June 2, 200817 yr I guess the United Kingdom's racist as well, since we didn't go and buy/download it.
June 3, 200817 yr I guess the United Kingdom's racist as well, since we didn't go and buy/download it. Yep, clearly... Cant just be because the song was utter sh!te can it....? Nah, has to be racism..... -_-
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