Say for example you own a factory and employ 100 workers on minimum wage on a production line, the government puts the minimum wage up to £9 an hour and each employee does 40 hrs a week that is an extra £120 a week PER WORKER with 100 workers thats an extra £12,000 a week and £600,000 a year

 

Now where is that extra £600,000 going to come from ? there is no magic money tree that can be shaken to fund their wages it is going to come out of 2 ways 1) Increasing prices or 2) laying off workers or a combination of the 2

 

if 1 happened then the knock on effect for the economy across the board would bring about 2 aswell

 

If you think that industry can afford a big increase in the minimum wage then your understanding of economics and running businesses is very low

I am not talking bollocks mate just economic realities, paying say £9-10 an hour or whatever to young, largely unskilled, workers will damage the economy and put them out of work

 

I'm sorry, but I just don't believe that the likes of Tesco, Asda, Sainsbury, etc can't afford to pay their employees, say £7.50 an hour (which is the EU decency threshold, and probably the correct minumum amount that any worker would need to survive in London relatively comfortably...), that is just blatant bollocks.... Large retail outlets are the biggest employers in this country, they continually brag about the huge profits they make, so I'm sorry if I just dont believe they couldn't afford to pay their workers a decent living wage.... The likes of John Lewis/Waitrose manage it, so there is NO EXCUSE for others not to follow their example....

 

If a SMALL business can prove that it cant afford the £7.50 an hour by supplying detailed accounts of its running costs and overheads, then I'd personally give them a free-pass, but large companies, fukk 'em, they can afford it......

well what craig says has some validity.... there aint a money tree out there and SMALL businesses are hugely effected by wages. it is a simple equasion, too higher wages lead to possible job losses, or the loss of a contract.

 

i do think you shouldnt be better off on benefits then working, but it is a catch 22 situation, too higher wages = priced out of business.

 

theres a huge difference between a small business and a bloody great big one!

Irrelevant

 

Every able bodied person in this country has a DUTY to be working, if it is for less then they are getting in benefits then whatever, not my problem, as a top rate taxpayer I object strongly to my taxes being spent keeping people who should be working on benefits,

 

It depends on the individual not everyone is a dole sponger, how are single parents be able to manage, or if they are permanently unfit to work.

It depends on the individual not everyone is a dole sponger, how are single parents be able to manage, or if they are permanently unfit to work.

 

I am all for the genuinely sick and genuinely disabled being looked after by the welfare state and also pensions are not generous enough so yeah I have no prob with anyone claiming benefits that is genuinely unfit for work and has been verified as such by a specialist as well as their own GP

 

In terms of single parents while this is going to sound harsh I guess but if someone can't afford to keep a child then they shouldn't have one, I don't see as a taxpayer why I should have to pay for people to have "career babies" (women who have a baby just to get a council flat and free money and so on)

 

The single parent should be made to go out and work just like everyone else and earn money to pay for the upkeep of their kids

 

I think the welfare system should be changed to with the exception of the disabled, chronically sick etc - You have 6 months to get a job or your money is stopped and no more handouts

I'm kind of in agreement with Craig, and a significant rise in the NMW will also lead to an increase on wages all round as people who are earning above the NMW will also want a payrise as they'd think "Well what I was doing was worth an extra £2 per more than these people before, so now why is it only worth £1 more."

 

Although I don't particularly argee wth the level of the minimum wage, but to increase it beyond their usual increases won't do any more good than bad, especially with how the economy is at the moment....

In terms of single parents while this is going to sound harsh I guess but if someone can't afford to keep a child then they shouldn't have one, I don't see as a taxpayer why I should have to pay for people to have "career babies" (women who have a baby just to get a council flat and free money and so on)

 

The single parent should be made to go out and work just like everyone else and earn money to pay for the upkeep of their kids

 

youve changed your tune... not long ago you were playing 'hero' to hard done by single mums...

 

in most cases theres no such thing as a 'single' parent.... unless one has been killed theres 2 parents involved in the creation of a bratt.. both have the resposibility to provide, absent or not.

youve changed your tune... not long ago you were playing 'hero' to hard done by single mums...

 

in most cases theres no such thing as a 'single' parent.... unless one has been killed theres 2 parents involved in the creation of a bratt.. both have the resposibility to provide, absent or not.

 

I guess over the months I have become more cynical lol same as I have on areas like binge drinking and immigration/cultural identity/uk infrastructure, I guess as I am paying more and more tax I get less tolerant of those that take the p*** with it

The single parent should be made to go out and work just like everyone else and earn money to pay for the upkeep of their kids

 

 

What if the mother wants to stay at home with a young child though and the father's done a vanishing act? Doesn't the State have a duty to support them?

Edited June 19, 200817 yr by Crazy Chris

What if the mother wants to stay at home with a young child though and the father's done a vanishing act? Doeasn't the Satate have a duty to support them?

 

No, the mother can get a family member or one of her parents or grandparents to look after the baby while she goes out to work

 

The state should have no obligation to anyone who is able bodied and capable of work

What if the mother wants to stay at home with a young child though and the father's done a vanishing act? Doeasn't the Satate have a duty to support them?

 

no.... why should I pay for her bratt? why should i work so she can sit at home watching jeremy kyle?

Although I don't particularly argee wth the level of the minimum wage, but to increase it beyond their usual increases won't do any more good than bad, especially with how the economy is at the moment....

 

Then you're happy to allow the situation where an underclass exists then....? Sorry, but I find that shocking tbh.... It certainly suits the bosses and the Govt to allow this to happen, but not the people themselves.....

youve changed your tune... not long ago you were playing 'hero' to hard done by single mums...

 

Well, Craig's obviously become a bit of a fascist in his old age.... Some of the comments he has made make that pretty obvious.....

 

Well, Craig's obviously become a bit of a fascist in his old age.... Some of the comments he has made make that pretty obvious.....

 

I fail to see what is fascist about not wanting people to take liberties with my hard earned, sure there are a lot of genuine cases in terms of single mums like in cases of divorce or violent partner or whatever in which case that is different but a large number of people are taking the p*** and getting pregnant really young so they can get a free house off the council and nice amount of money each week for booze and fags while at the same time bringing up the next generation of feral chav, if that makes me a fascist so be it

 

 

I fail to see what is fascist about not wanting people to take liberties with my hard earned, sure there are a lot of genuine cases in terms of single mums like in cases of divorce or violent partner or whatever in which case that is different but a large number of people are taking the p*** and getting pregnant really young so they can get a free house off the council and nice amount of money each week for booze and fags while at the same time bringing up the next generation of feral chav, if that makes me a fascist so be it

 

Wasn't so much thinking about your comments of that nature... I was thinking more of the comments you got the ban for...... -_-

 

Thing is though... What do we do as a society...? Just allow kids to starve to death....? Maybe you could live with that on your conscience.... To me, it doesn't matter what the mothers have done, yeah, they might be in the wrong, but there are innocent lives at stake here as well, so, again, I ask, what would YOU do.....? Let em starve when it aint their fault....? That would make you a fascist mate.....

 

And I think you have to ask yourself, just what is it that makes a young girl not to actually want to aspire to be anything in life, other than a baby-making machine...... What's wrong in our country....? Why is it not anything like as big a problem on the Continent as it is here, countries such as Holland and Sweden for example have more generous benefit systems than we do, so why does "scrounging" not seem to be as big a factor there.....? Better education perhaps....? I rather think it is that factor..... Better education = better hope...... This country is a disgrace in the way it treats its young.....

Wasn't so much thinking about your comments of that nature... I was thinking more of the comments you got the ban for...... -_-

 

Thing is though... What do we do as a society...? Just allow kids to starve to death....? Maybe you could live with that on your conscience.... To me, it doesn't matter what the mothers have done, yeah, they might be in the wrong, but there are innocent lives at stake here as well, so, again, I ask, what would YOU do.....? Let em starve when it aint their fault....? That would make you a fascist mate.....

 

And I think you have to ask yourself, just what is it that makes a young girl not to actually want to aspire to be anything in life, other than a baby-making machine...... What's wrong in our country....? Why is it not anything like as big a problem on the Continent as it is here, countries such as Holland and Sweden for example have more generous benefit systems than we do, so why does "scrounging" not seem to be as big a factor there.....? Better education perhaps....? I rather think it is that factor..... Better education = better hope...... This country is a disgrace in the way it treats its young.....

 

Nope I do not for one moment advocate letting kids starve, there are many women in this country that can't have babies for reasons that they or their partners are infertile, there are many couples who can afford kids but can't have them, the adoption waiting list is huge, there are many people who are on IVF programmes that will never be able to have a child of their own so rather than starvation I advocate the adoption route, if a girl and we are talking in general teenage girls on council estates here, can't provide for their kid out of non state money or their families can't provide for the kid then the kid gets taken into care and put up for adoption

 

I am all for people having babies I believe in pro life but I also believe that I should not have to financially provide for their babies out of my tax so simple method, pay for the kid yourself by getting a job or lose it to adoption

 

 

I would also bring in breeding licences, it is ridiculous that someone needs a licence to keep a dog, a television and a car but do not need one for the most precious and important thing in life, a baby

 

Anyone wants a baby they should apply for a licence permit where they have to prove that they can afford that baby themselves without taxpayer support, have to undergo phychological and IQ tests to prove their fitness to bring up a baby and then and only then a licence gets granted

 

Anyone having a baby without a licence is subject to severe penalties and the baby taken into care

 

 

Anyone wants a baby they should apply for a licence permit where they have to prove that they can afford that baby themselves without taxpayer support, have to undergo phychological and IQ tests to prove their fitness to bring up a baby and then and only then a licence gets granted

 

I agree with the second part, but I dont think financial status (or even "intelligence") has any bearance upon the ability to bring up a child, plenty of fukked-up kids come from middle-class and well-to-do families mate.... I would say that ANYONE (and this would include gay/lesbian couples also who should have the same chances as anyone...) wishing to become a parent should undergo rigourous psychological and emotional tests, whether they be Prince or Pauper... Psychometric testing also, not necessarily IQ, I dont think you have to be "smart" to have the ability to bring up kids, the emotional and psychological aspects are far more important than intellectual or financial ones.. The sorts of things you CANT bluff your way through, a smart person can bluff their way through an IQ test, but what does that prove..? Does it prove emotional or psychological suitability, no it does not.... Neither does being "married" or "heterosexual"..... Plenty of lesbian/gay couples would make far more suitable parents than a lot of people out there.....

 

And believe it or not mate, a lot of "benefit scroungers" do actually manage to make good child-carers......

Wouldn't the best thing to be cut the cost paid out in benefits instead of increasing minimum wage? That way taxs go down and companies that aren't doing well economically don't have to worry about going bust due to being forced to pay out so much to their workers.

 

 

On the other hand people should try sponging at some point. It's a blast.

Wouldn't the best thing to be cut the cost paid out in benefits instead of increasing minimum wage? That way taxs go down and companies that aren't doing well economically don't have to worry about going bust due to being forced to pay out so much to their workers.

 

John, that makes no sense, how would it actually alleviate the problem of a social underclass....? Sorry mate, the only way to stop this is to give people a decent, living wage which incentivises them to work and the likes of Tesco, Asda, etc hardly need to worry about "going bust"..... Taxes wouldn't go down anyway either... If you honestly believe that the Govt would take less money off people, you don't know much about Govts, they'll take your money in some way, indirectly if not directly.... Every time an INCOME tax reduction was made, an increase in STEALTH taxes went on.... They just give with one hand and take with the other......

 

I object far more to stealth taxes than direct ones tbh... At least Direct taxation is based upon someone's actual income, Stealth taxes and VAT affect the poor far more than the rich.....