June 26, 200817 yr Christ, didn't you even read Jupiter's post.....? As I understand what she wrote, she started her job in the Public Sector two decades ago when the pay and conditions WERE considerably better...... So, how the hell you can come away with this utter cack is beyond me...... She has every bloody right to "moan".... Her experience and knowledge is worth a damn sight more than what she's getting paid... It's fukkin' insulting..... Jupiter has skills and the many years of experience that Clare, I'm sorry to say, just does not have, so I dunno why you're even comparing the two of them to be honest..... ........ and you didnt read my post... why was there pay and conditions allowed to fall behind so much?...
June 26, 200817 yr Inflation is out of control not because of pay rises but because of the Govt's TOTAL FUKKIN' INCOMPETENCE...... <_< And you still dont answer my point why the fukk should MPs be getting outrageous pay rises and "bonuses" (well, expenses, but let's face it, they're treating them like bonuses..) whan the rest of us are expected to put up with sh!t.... I mean, come on... This Govt has failed miserably time and time again, and the buggers want a fukkin' PAY RISE?????? Oh, PUH-LEEEEEZEEEE.... :lol: :lol: :lol: Do me a favour...... In any other profession the whole bloody lot of them would be fired for their sheer incompetency..... These buggers ARE the Weakest Link in the country...... It's their abject failures which have led to the economy being fukked, we suffer for it, they get rewarded, fukk that...... <_< it doesnt matter whos caused inflation (although it isnt only the governments fault, world oil prices have a huge impact), starting a round of strikes will only fuel imflation. again there is no written or unwritten law that states we are entitled as of right, to an ever increasing standard of living! sometimes ,wether we like it or not, we HAVE to take a step back. striking will only fuel inflation and prolong the economic gloom. i FULLY AGREE with you on mp's and fat cats... i thought id said that. limited payrises should be ACROSS THE BOARD.
June 26, 200817 yr As I understand it, in the mid-70s the cost of living was absolutely NOTHING like it is now... Wages were actually adequate to deal with living expenses, most people did receive wage increases according to inflation and the professionalism of teacher, nurses, doctors and public sector workers was held in far higher regard... And you didn't have Stealth Taxes and VAT on just about everything going.... You could say that perhaps people were being a bit greedy then, not so now, the woeful rate of the minimum wage is completely inadequate, unfit for purpose..... As far as I'm concerned workers have far more justification to go out on strike now than they did in the mid-late 70s..... It really IS high time to make a stand against this Govt and against the greedy bosses who exploit their staff..... it is all reletive, the cost of living was lower yes... but so were wages and we didnt have the material assests we do now. no sky tv, no internet, no mobile phones, etc etc etc... inflation was rampant, as a low paid council worker we had automatic payrise everytime the cost of living went up... in 1975 i had 4 payrises! ok this meant we kept up with inflation but it also didnt help the spiral that inflation is. tbh it was thatcher who eventually beat inflation....
June 26, 200817 yr Author tbh it was thatcher who eventually beat inflation.... and how did she manage this, by waging war against the unions and leading to over 3 million unemployed. People without a job cannot fuel inflation if they have no money.
June 27, 200817 yr and how did she manage this, by waging war against the unions and leading to over 3 million unemployed. People without a job cannot fuel inflation if they have no money. unfortunately it HAD to be done, and ever since we as a nation has benefitted with the standard of living higher then ever. rempant inflation in the 70's was keeping all but the rich in reletive poverty, we were running on the spot. there was never going to be an easy solution to beat inflation, it was going to be painful in the short term to give us what we had... prosperity in the long term. what we MUST avoid at all costs is the return to rampant inflation, if that means tightening our belts in the short term and taking it on the chin, then so be it.
June 27, 200817 yr I'd better work harder then. Maybe I should do nights? OK, the Office is closed but still.... Yes, I get paid holidays. I get paid sick leave too. Or I would if I'd had any days off sick in the past 4 years. I work on average 44 hours a week (excluding lunch breaks). Plus I work from home most nights and some weekends (unpaid). I have a Uni Degree and 22 years experience. I earn £23,000. That is the maximum pay scale for my grade. I've had below inflation pay rises for more years than I can remember. I'm in charge of 15 people. £23,000 and 15,000 up there isn't that bad though £23k in London or Reading or somewhere would be pitiful to live on let alone £15k but that sort of money in the North or Scotland is easy enough to live on as lower cost of living A civil servant in London should be paid way more than a civil servant in Scotland as the cost of living is so high in London I pay £900 a month rent for my 3 bedroom modest size garden property in Greater London, I could rent a 6 bedroom mansion for the same money in most of the north and scotland
June 27, 200817 yr and how did she manage this, by waging war against the unions and leading to over 3 million unemployed. People without a job cannot fuel inflation if they have no money. It was for the greater good When Maggie took over in 1979 the country was the equivalent of a banana republic, rampant inflation, riddled with strikes, the economy in such a massive debt that we had to go cap in hand to the IMF for bailing out as if we were Chad or Congo and when Maggie left power we were the FOURTH most powerful economy in the WORLD now you can make any excuses you like mate but 3 million being put out of work to curb rampant inflation was the right thing to do, no consolation for those that ended up out of work but curbing inflation was the important thing and Maggie did that, mass unemployment was nothing more than collateral damage Edited June 27, 200817 yr by Tim Barnes
June 27, 200817 yr It was for the greater good When Maggie took over in 1979 the country was the equivalent of a banana republic, rampant inflation, riddled with strikes, the economy in such a massive debt that we had to go cap in hand to the IMF for bailing out as if we were Chad or Congo and when Maggie left power we were the FOURTH most powerful economy in the WORLD now you can make any excuses you like mate but 3 million being put out of work to curb rampant inflation was the right thing to do, no consolation for those that ended up out of work but curbing inflation was the important thing and Maggie did that, mass unemployment was nothing more than collateral damage Oh yeah, "for the greater" good... The idiot call of the Tory scumbag who cares not one jot that whole generations and whole communities were destroyed AND NEVER RECOVERED..... Much of Wales and the North is still a wasteland because of Thatcher... No one there has ever benefitted.. Where is the "greater good" for those communities....? Making excuses for this sort of thing is just disgraceful in my eyes, especially seeing as how for most of the people who suffered under Thatcher it sure as hell wasn't "short term", it continues to this day.....
June 27, 200817 yr People without a job cannot fuel inflation if they have no money. Exactly... People like Craig and Rob moan about "benefit scroungers" then praise Thatcher who pretty much created this "dole/chav" Culture bullsh!t..... <_< An entire generation of Britian's youth was betrayed and sacrificed for the supposed "greater good"... Her "legacy" is on the streets of every housing estate and every ex-mining, heavy industry community in this country.... Cities and towns like Liverpool, Burnley, Paisley, Bradford.....
June 27, 200817 yr it was going to be painful in the short term to give us what we had... prosperity in the long term. Oh come on, I cant believe you're making excuses for Thatcher now.... Fukk sake.... Where the hell was this supposed "long term prosperity" for the communities she destroyed....? Many parts of Wales, Scotland and the North HAVE NEVER RECOVERED from the legacy of Thatcherism..... It's only the South of England that benefitted.. "Short-term" my arse.....
June 27, 200817 yr if that means tightening our belts in the short term and taking it on the chin, then so be it. You still aint answering my question.... Why is it that it only seems to be "WE" who have to take it on the chin....? Never seems to be the bosses, the MPs, the pin-striped city scum, ALWAYS the working classes, the low-paid, women (who still in many cases dont get equal pay to men in the same professions), migrant workers, part-timers.. Those who can LEAST afford it.... You and Craig make far too many excuses for a totally corrupt system which favours a MINORITY (usually white, upper-middle-class men, you cannot deny that it is this demographic which rules and controls this country by and large...) over a MAJORITY (the indigenous working classes, minorities, women, etc...)... WE are the majority, the system should be there to benefit US, not the 4/5% of fat cats and pigs with their snouts in the trough.....
June 27, 200817 yr Oh yeah, "for the greater" good... The idiot call of the Tory scumbag who cares not one jot that whole generations and whole communities were destroyed AND NEVER RECOVERED..... Much of Wales and the North is still a wasteland because of Thatcher... No one there has ever benefitted.. Where is the "greater good" for those communities....? Making excuses for this sort of thing is just disgraceful in my eyes, especially seeing as how for most of the people who suffered under Thatcher it sure as hell wasn't "short term", it continues to this day..... No regime is going to have 100% success rate, there will always be winners and there will be losers, it is impossible to please 100% of the people and make them all wealthy so yeah some are always going to lose out but by conquering hyper inflation, by making Britian the 4th strongest economy in the world the number of winners compared with losers made it all worthwhile And you are looking at the very peak of the unemployment fiugures, when Maggie left power the figure was 1.3m which is roughly what it was when she gained power, remember the "Labour isn't working" banners with huge queues outside benefit offices from the 79 election ? unemployment was a Labour problem too More people did well under Maggie than would have done well had Labour got in again so yes increased unemployment v high inflation ? no contest, controlling inflation was of paramount importance
June 27, 200817 yr No regime is going to have 100% success rate, there will always be winners and there will be losers, it is impossible to please 100% of the people and make them all wealthy so yeah some are always going to lose out but by conquering hyper inflation, by making Britian the 4th strongest economy in the world the number of winners compared with losers made it all worthwhile The only people that really "won" out of Thatcherism were the top 5%, the other 95% either had their lives and communities destroyed or were in exactly the same position they'd always been.... How is that the "majority being better off"....? Bullsh"t Craig..... She went TOO FAR...... It was also Thatcher who eroded the professionalism and positions of Civil Servants, Teachers, Nurses, etc... Yuppie scum who worked as bloody Stockbrokers or Estate Agents were more respected by Thatcher and the Tories than Teachers or Nurses... That's just WRONG....
June 27, 200817 yr The only people that really "won" out of Thatcherism were the top 5%, the other 95% either had their lives and communities destroyed or were in exactly the same position they'd always been.... How is that the "majority being better off"....? Bullsh"t Craig..... She went TOO FAR...... It was also Thatcher who eroded the professionalism and positions of Civil Servants, Teachers, Nurses, etc... Yuppie scum who worked as bloody Stockbrokers or Estate Agents were more respected by Thatcher and the Tories than Teachers or Nurses... That's just WRONG.... Everyone IN WORK did well out of Thatcher because she curbed hyper inflation Anyone who was in work during the Maggie era benefitted from inflation being curbed Those out of work did not do so well but like I said above, collateral damage, I could live with high unemployment if it meant low inflation
June 28, 200817 yr Everyone IN WORK did well out of Thatcher because she curbed hyper inflation What a load of c**p - Teachers didn't do well, nurses didn't do well, junior doctors didn't do well, firemen didn't do well...... The majority of Working Class people did NOT do well under Thatcher..... She bloody made most of 'em unemployed.....
June 28, 200817 yr What a load of c**p - Teachers didn't do well, nurses didn't do well, junior doctors didn't do well, firemen didn't do well...... The majority of Working Class people did NOT do well under Thatcher..... She bloody made most of 'em unemployed..... Anyone in work in the Maggie era had never had it so good, low inflation benefits EVERYONE I don't understand how you can think creating the 4th most powerful economy in the world on a tiny island like this is not a massive achievement and economic success story
June 28, 200817 yr I don't understand how you can think creating the 4th most powerful economy in the world on a tiny island like this is not a massive achievement and economic success story It came at too high a cost... Like what's happening with China now.. Yeah, great economic growth and everything, but scratch below the surface and you see the price that the majority of ordinary Chinese are paying.... Thatcherism was similar... A great balance sheet, yeah, but the SOCIAL costs, the "collateral damage".. Too high a price to pay, and we're still living with her "boom-and-bust" cycle, and we still live with the Dolie/Chav, "I want it now" culture which she was instrumental in creating.. Gordon Brown's balance sheet is just as big an illusion, yeah, 'minimum wage', great idea, but look below the surface and all it's created is a 'wage slave' culture.... As Bill Hicks once said "The economy doesn't exist, it's an illusion"... And it is... Built upon a house of cards, so easily toppled by some "butterfly effect" that can happen an entire continent away..... Any system of good governance should put PEOPLE FIRST, always, as far as I'm concerned.....
June 28, 200817 yr You still aint answering my question.... Why is it that it only seems to be "WE" who have to take it on the chin....? Never seems to be the bosses, the MPs, the pin-striped city scum, ALWAYS the working classes, the low-paid, women (who still in many cases dont get equal pay to men in the same professions), migrant workers, part-timers.. Those who can LEAST afford it.... You and Craig make far too many excuses for a totally corrupt system which favours a MINORITY (usually white, upper-middle-class men, you cannot deny that it is this demographic which rules and controls this country by and large...) over a MAJORITY (the indigenous working classes, minorities, women, etc...)... WE are the majority, the system should be there to benefit US, not the 4/5% of fat cats and pigs with their snouts in the trough..... i have answered your question... ive said many times that it should be restarint across the board, for rich and poor.
June 28, 200817 yr Oh come on, I cant believe you're making excuses for Thatcher now.... Fukk sake.... Where the hell was this supposed "long term prosperity" for the communities she destroyed....? Many parts of Wales, Scotland and the North HAVE NEVER RECOVERED from the legacy of Thatcherism..... It's only the South of England that benefitted.. "Short-term" my arse..... ........ and if labour had been in power throughout the 80's?... im not fan of thatch, i hate the woman, but no one can deny that she DID do SOME good. 'never recovered from the legacy of thatcherism'?... oh and they would be wealthy, thriving, happy communities now wouldnt they! :lol: bollox they would, alot of those communities were reliant on old fashioned, outdated industries that were dying. many of these places have now had huge european monies pumped into them to re-generate and are doing very well thank you. and its a bloody great fcuking FACT that we as a nation are enjoying a far far better standard of living then what we did in the 70's and 80's. ... how did all that happen? the magical money fairey? ..... not everything thatcher, major or blair oversaw was good, but under them we as a nation HAVE improved our living standards, across the board.
June 28, 200817 yr It came at too high a cost... Like what's happening with China now.. Yeah, great economic growth and everything, but scratch below the surface and you see the price that the majority of ordinary Chinese are paying.... Thatcherism was similar... A great balance sheet, yeah, but the SOCIAL costs, the "collateral damage".. Too high a price to pay, and we're still living with her "boom-and-bust" cycle, and we still live with the Dolie/Chav, "I want it now" culture which she was instrumental in creating.. Gordon Brown's balance sheet is just as big an illusion, yeah, 'minimum wage', great idea, but look below the surface and all it's created is a 'wage slave' culture.... As Bill Hicks once said "The economy doesn't exist, it's an illusion"... And it is... Built upon a house of cards, so easily toppled by some "butterfly effect" that can happen an entire continent away..... Any system of good governance should put PEOPLE FIRST, always, as far as I'm concerned..... its all right harping on about that... but what other way was there to beat rampant inflation?.. that was everyones enemy and it HAD to be tackled and beaten. labour FAILED to defeat it... thatcher DID beat it and craig is right, everyone benefits under low inflation, no one benefits under high inflation EXCEPT the people with money!!! the very people you seem to hate! :lol:
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