i dont agree with summut for nothing (unless the disability is severe and genuine) but theres far too many abusing the system. if scott thinks this is ok then HE can pay my share for me! thanks! :lol:

 

Who said I thought it was okay for people to "scrounge".. But unless you can specifically target the "scroungers" and not shoot the genuine cases down, well, sorry man.... Zeus has an exellent point which you totally fail to take on board... That of Media misconceptions... It's easy to label people "scroungers" when the disability isn't altogether obvious such as mental illness or clinical depression, or stuff like RSI.. The law in this country states that a disability is a long-term affliction which affects people's ability to work or function day to day..

 

And if you honestly believe that it's okay to pay people £1.70 an hour to do a Full-time job (and this is what we're talking about here, NOT training, NOT apprenticeships), then you are just cracked, maybe you should be claiming Incapacity Benefit.... -_- If able-bodied people refuse to take a proper job with a proper wage, then you can start talking about cutting benefits, but this bullsh!t the Govt is coming up with now is the SAME discredited bullsh!t the Tories did in the 80s, and that DID clearly lead to employers taking the p!ss, precious few actual careers came out of compulsory YTS or Training For Work, all it did was fudge the unemployment statistics... You seem to think that all employers out there are as honest as the day is long and wouldn't jump on this to get a bit of cheap labour courtesy of the Govt.... Well, fukk that, I AM a Socialist Democrat, and I aint gonna stand for it, it goes totally against my principles.... This is going back to the days of the Victorian Workhouses....

if the genuine cases get inconvenienced smoking out the cheats then its a price worth paying

 

What exactly do you mean by "inconvienienced" though... Did you actually LISTEN to what Chris said.....? With an illness like Depression, it can come and go, it's really impossible to say how someone with a mental illness is going to feel from one day or one week to the next.... Yeah, the Govt can set up all their nice little tests and what have you, Chris can go in there for his alloted appointment and feel totally fine on the day.. Then the Govt appointed psychologist could easily turn around and say, "right, nothing wrong with you, you're getting your benefits cut.. off you pop on your Welfare to Work scheme". Then next week, Chris cant even leave the bed and is getting extremely nasty phone calls from the Job Centre.... This is unfortunately how Clinical Depression operates, it aint a disability like blindness, deafness or cerebral palsy which are obvious and permanently there... The irony is that many blind or deaf people could conceivably actually function on a day to day basis more effectively than someone with a mental illness, the guys I work with in University are capable, they just need a bit of support or the right sort of technology available to them to perform a task or a job, if a blind person has talking software, hey, operating a computer is no probs, in fact one of my mates from uni is working as a data inputer and Admin support, so there you go.... It's actually a lot harder to support someone with a mental illness than a physical one, and it's a lot harder for someone with a mental illness to function in a work environment...

 

 

Who said I thought it was okay for people to "scrounge".. But unless you can specifically target the "scroungers" and not shoot the genuine cases down, well, sorry man.... Zeus has an exellent point which you totally fail to take on board... That of Media misconceptions... It's easy to label people "scroungers" when the disability isn't altogether obvious such as mental illness or clinical depression, or stuff like RSI.. The law in this country states that a disability is a long-term affliction which affects people's ability to work or function day to day..

 

And if you honestly believe that it's okay to pay people £1.70 an hour to do a Full-time job (and this is what we're talking about here, NOT training, NOT apprenticeships), then you are just cracked, maybe you should be claiming Incapacity Benefit.... -_- If able-bodied people refuse to take a proper job with a proper wage, then you can start talking about cutting benefits, but this bullsh!t the Govt is coming up with now is the SAME discredited bullsh!t the Tories did in the 80s, and that DID clearly lead to employers taking the p!ss, precious few actual careers came out of compulsory YTS or Training For Work, all it did was fudge the unemployment statistics... You seem to think that all employers out there are as honest as the day is long and wouldn't jump on this to get a bit of cheap labour courtesy of the Govt.... Well, fukk that, I AM a Socialist Democrat, and I aint gonna stand for it, it goes totally against my principles.... This is going back to the days of the Victorian Workhouses....

 

clearly its not a cut n dry case, there are people with varying amounts of incapacity, most are genuine, some arnt, but i think that if a person can play footy, clean their cars, cut hedges (like several do around here <_<) then there cant be that much wrong with them! im sure that many genuine cases would welcome the chance to 'do something'..

 

this aint the 80's, things are different now, i see no problem with finding gentle community work for many on ib.

this aint the 80's, things are different now, i see no problem with finding gentle community work for many on ib.

 

Right, if you're talking about work which would otherwise be done purely by volunteers (in which case there would be no pay anyway...) for charities or whatnot, then I guess that would be a little more ethically sound; but once you start to allowing employers to come in and exploit the unemployed by getting them to do jobs which they would otherwise have to advertise and pay someone a wage to do, well, I'm afraid that's where I totally draw the line, because this would be going back to the 80s....

Right, if you're talking about work which would otherwise be done purely by volunteers (in which case there would be no pay anyway...) for charities or whatnot, then I guess that would be a little more ethically sound; but once you start to allowing employers to come in and exploit the unemployed by getting them to do jobs which they would otherwise have to advertise and pay someone a wage to do, well, I'm afraid that's where I totally draw the line, because this would be going back to the 80s....

 

.... and there lies the problem with this thread. we are all guessing as to what the work would actually be and IF it could be done in an official capacity.

A spokesperson for the IB changes, said that they simply plan to try & get people

to 'Work For Benefits' - and he said it would average out at about £1.70 an hour

- less than a Third of the Minimum Wage.

 

So, I suggest that anyone who agrees with that, should immediately have their Pay

cut to £1.70 an Hour, & be made to Work 30 to 35 Hours a Week for it - including

MP's. If it is good enough for people out of Work, it HAS to be good enough for people

IN Work.

 

Also, I am registered Disabled, for genuine reasons that I am too upset to talk

about, & I am so fed up of being labelled a 'Scrounger' by the UK Media &

the way some MP's talk about people like me, that I'd gladly be first in the

queue, if the Government set up Gas Chambers for Disabled people, or

Lethal Injections, for us. We are clearly not welcome in this World, & are

filling space that could be occupied by active contributers to Society.

 

More & more Disabled people feel this way, & it is probably better if

we all just died. I'm sure that Brown & Co. have some new Wars & Weapons

that the cash could fund, instead of being used on 'Useless Mouths', as

the Nazis called Disabled people.

 

Anyhow, the World is c**p, & it is better to be dead.

 

 

And how are they meant to live on 1.70 per hour, that is the most utmost stupid wage I've seen, when you can actually buy a loaf of bread for £1.60, they need to earn the minimum wage, otherwise you are going to have more people turning to crime. Food prices and the wealth of living is going up and people are finding it very hard to scrimpe and save.

 

Also if you are lone parent with young kids to look after, how are the young going to be looked after.

 

As you said, I'm better off dead, if I was in that position.

And how are they meant to live on 1.70 per hour, that is the most utmost stupid wage I've seen, when you can actually buy a loaf of bread for £1.60, they need to earn the minimum wage, otherwise you are going to have more people turning to crime. Food prices and the wealth of living is going up and people are finding it very hard to scrimpe and save.

 

Also if you are lone parent with young kids to look after, how are the young going to be looked after.

 

As you said, I'm better off dead, if I was in that position.

 

Is the £1.70 an hour not what they're living on *now* anyway? As in, if they divide their benefit by number of hours worked that'd be what it averages.

 

 

I think it'd be a good idea, these scroungers would soon think that if they have to work for £1.70 an hour they may as well get a proper job and earn nearly four times that instead!!

 

Is the £1.70 an hour not what they're living on *now* anyway? As in, if they divide their benefit by number of hours worked that'd be what it averages.

 

:lol: EXACTLY! .... though im not sure where this figure came from. that muslim cleric who wants to kill us is getting £150 a week for his 'bad back', thats over £3.50 an hour (assuming a working week is 40 hours).

I work part time [15 hours a week] and still get benefits. I'm not sure if this affects me though...

A lot of people claim IB because you get more than Job Seekers Allowance, and you don't have to go for any job interviews. All genuine cases for severely disabled people will get more under the changes, but I think its right that the rest should put a little bit back into the system, instead of just taking from the system. Surely it will give people back some self respect if they were working.

It's been a few years since I assessed benefits for working age people. But that was my job. For about 18 years. In Glasgow East of all places. I know everything there is to know about the Benefit System and the abuse of the system that is out there. Seen it all, peeps. I also know there are a lot of genuine, honest people out there who for whatever reason are unable to work. I'm not going to post my thoughts on the proposed welfare reforms. I have far too much to say on the subject.

However, I'd like to comment on the following (just to show how ridiculous the current system is).

 

Firstly, I should clarify that Incapacity Benefit is a contributory benefit. You need to have worked and paid the required NI contributions before you qualify for Incapacity Benefit. People who have never worked a day in their lives do not qualify for Incapacity Benefit.

 

However, people can receive Income Support if they are sick and sending in med certs. Income Support is non-contributory so those people who are sick but don't have the required NI contributions for Incapacity Benefit can still claim Income Support. (Income support is the UK's means tested safety net if you like).

 

People who are receiving Income Support on the basis of sickness receive extra money when they have been sending in med certs for over a year. At 52 weeks sickness they qualify for the Disability Premium (I think it's currently about £25 a week extra benefit). This extra benefit is perfectly reasonable. In theory anyway. It's paid in recognition of the fact that the long term sick could have additional expenses an able bodied person doesn't have.

 

But-

Then you have those who are long term sick because of alcohol and drug problems. Many of these people are basically unemployable. They get sick lines from their doctor on the grounds that they are constantly tanked up on something or other. And what does the benefit system do? Does it try to get them into rehab or some kind of treatment centre? Does it hell. It rewards them with an extra £25 a week so they can go buy even more Buckfast.

 

So basically,

If you are a young fit guy on Jobseekers Allowance trying to find work you get, oh I dunno, £60 per week to live on?

If you are a long term alcoholic who has been blitzed out his face since about age 12 you receive Income Support of £85 per week. Result! Next stop Haddows off-sales....

 

Totally ludicrous.

But-

Then you have those who are long term sick because of alcohol and drug problems. Many of these people are basically unemployable. They get sick lines from their doctor on the grounds that they are constantly tanked up on something or other. And what does the benefit system do? Does it try to get them into rehab or some kind of treatment centre? Does it hell.

 

Course not.. It would cost the Govt FAR too much money to actually put these people in rehab, so they happily just let them rot....

 

.... and there lies the problem with this thread. we are all guessing as to what the work would actually be and IF it could be done in an official capacity.

 

I'm going by past experience of this sort of thing... And frankly, I dont trust Nu Labor any more than I trust the Tories to do this correctly... Genuine attempt to help people or just another way of fudging the figures...? The Govt don't give a sh!t so long as they look good in the media....

 

When we live in a country that allows teenage girls to choose a baby as a career choice, where we actively encourage further children even when neither parent works (surely they should only get benefit for one child - after that - it's your baby - your bill), where we actually pay people to be sick and where in many cases, a claimant gets so much benefit and housing allowance - it doesn't pay them to work, it's high time something radical like this came along.

 

I actually work in this area, with 18-24 year olds, liaising with employers and sourcing work for them...... and the majority are eager and willing.... however, there's easily 30% who would be happy never to work in their lives and are happy to keep on breeding and living out of yours and my pockets.

 

The tagline 'Something for Something' is true and maybe making dole claimants work for their payment, butt not doing the old Tory trick of fiddling the dole figures, is a good idea. And as for the people sponging about on the sick, on 'incapacity' benefit - enough's enough - if you're unable to do one type of work, fine... let's look at what you can do.

 

Common sense, surely?

When we live in a country that allows teenage girls to choose a baby as a career choice, where we actively encourage further children even when neither parent works (surely they should only get benefit for one child - after that - it's your baby - your bill), where we actually pay people to be sick and where in many cases, a claimant gets so much benefit and housing allowance - it doesn't pay them to work, it's high time something radical like this came along.

 

I actually work in this area, with 18-24 year olds, liaising with employers and sourcing work for them...... and the majority are eager and willing.... however, there's easily 30% who would be happy never to work in their lives and are happy to keep on breeding and living out of yours and my pockets.

 

The tagline 'Something for Something' is true and maybe making dole claimants work for their payment, butt not doing the old Tory trick of fiddling the dole figures, is a good idea. And as for the people sponging about on the sick, on 'incapacity' benefit - enough's enough - if you're unable to do one type of work, fine... let's look at what you can do.

 

Common sense, surely?

 

absolutely russ, common sense indeed. :)

 

as a matter of fact, i was at a customers today, a small modern mid terrace on a council estate. she worked hard for 37 years for her home. on either side there are single mums, popping out bratts that SHE (and us) pay for.. whats the fukkin point in working all your life when some feckless bint has career babies and lives at our expense to the standard of a worker?... im not knocking ALL single mums, indeed my sister is one and she works, but these career mums need sorting out. i object to MY money being given to them.