In the 80s everyone thought Stock/Aitken/Waterman was killing music, in the 90s people hated Eurodance and boybands/girlbands...every single decade has lots of classic songs and there'll always be people calling it the worst era ever, and bring back the days of insert-decade-here, etc.

 

saw DID 'kill music' ... they made a soul-less 3 minute repetitive jingle acceptable to a new young generation, thatchers kids, who grew up with it and havnt progressed ever since. pre saw pop was varied, it had something to say with each and every new creative genre . pop had identity. saw material is still universally hated by music fans, but not by those with simple enough musical tastes.

How can you comment on 00's when it's not even finished yet? :|

 

 

saw material is still universally hated by music fans, but not by those with simple enough musical tastes.

 

Inclined to diagree here. I like a bit of a SAW freak out from time to time (well quite often!), but I'm highly aware their material was very run of the mill but they were also a force and did a vast number of classics. My music tastes are beyond simple, also. ;)

Inclined to diagree here. I like a bit of a SAW freak out from time to time (well quite often!), but I'm highly aware their material was very run of the mill but they were also a force and did a vast number of classics. My music tastes are beyond simple, also. ;)

 

classics?.... like what?... at their very best they only produced ok pop 'you spin me round (like a record)' and 'i should be so lucky' for eg... theres NOTHING out of their huge catalogue that was 'classic', ie genre defining, ground breaking, inovative... it was all simple pop.

classics?.... like what?... at their very best they only produced ok pop 'you spin me round (like a record)' and 'i should be so lucky' for eg... theres NOTHING out of their huge catalogue that was 'classic', ie genre defining, ground breaking, inovative... it was all simple pop.

 

Pop music is rarely groundbreaking and innovative. Some of them are classics, some are kitch, some are iconic, some are indeed classics for the wrong reasons!

 

It's a case of agreeing to disagree I think...

1950s... God awful, toe-curling "crooners" and the frankly HORRENDOUS watering-down and total WHITE-washing of Black blues music for mass-consumption..... At least the likes of Jimmy Page, Hendrix, Clapton (the Clapton who was in Cream as opposed to the detestable w/anker he became later on...) the Stones and Black Sabbath came along in the 60s and did the great black bluesmen justice and gave them the respect they were due, what the fukk did the likes of Elvis do......? Dumbed them down....

 

The 00s are running a bloody close second though.....

 

And Rob is spot on, SAW did kill the bright, adventurous and individualistic spirit that existed in Pop music in the early 80s..... Early 80s - Madness, Culture Club, Adam and the Ants, Bow Wow Wow, Public Image Ltd, Altered Images, Duran Duran, Visage, Gary Numan, The Police, Human League, Echo and the Bunnymen, The Smiths, Teardrop Explodes, U2 (before the Stadium Pomp era)..... Late 80s - Kylie, Jason, (P)Rick Astley, Sinitta, Bros, The Reynolds Girls, Stadium Pomp Rock such as U2, Simple Minds, INXS..... Er, The case for the Prosecution rests...... :rolleyes:

Pop music is rarely groundbreaking and innovative.

 

spoken like a true young person !!!

 

as grimly points out, there was plenty of ground breaking innovative pop pre-saw... saw made bland repetitive gay/girl pop (as ive said before, us older buggers blamed gays and girls for saw's success... and that prettty much still stands today). ever since the beatles each new sound was born on inspiration, innovation, by new contemporary acts with something to say.

 

what waterman did was re-write the definitions. before saw it was pretty much ALL regarded as pop (chart music), what he did was dumb down music to its basic level and he called that 'pop' which unfortunately stuck. so for the last 20 odd years, 'pop' has meant his form of manufactured, 3 minute, no-brainer.

 

pop was always youth lead. thats the difference.

 

saw's production line pop was lead by old men.

spoken like a true young person !!!

 

as grimly points out, there was plenty of ground breaking innovative pop pre-saw... saw made bland repetitive gay/girl pop (as ive said before, us older buggers blamed gays and girls for saw's success... and that prettty much still stands today). ever since the beatles each new sound was born on inspiration, innovation, by new contemporary acts with something to say.

 

what waterman did was re-write the definitions. before saw it was pretty much ALL regarded as pop (chart music), what he did was dumb down music to its basic level and he called that 'pop' which unfortunately stuck. so for the last 20 odd years, 'pop' has meant his form of manufactured, 3 minute, no-brainer.

 

pop was always youth lead. thats the difference.

 

saw's production line pop was lead by old men.

 

FULL TRUTH.... It's really depressing that these young kids just cannot see that it's the old men like Cowell, Waterman and Walsh that are calling the shots, not the young bucks as it should be....

 

The G.A.Y. crowd also has a lot to answer for.. I've never understood why for what seems like the majority of gay people, being gay means that your musical tastes are defined by mindless, juvenile drivel..... Many of my gay/bi friends (who, by the way, have exceptional tastes in music...) are just totally moritified by this.... As one gay pal put it.. "I may be gay, but these camp arseholes (ie, the G.A.Y minions and the camp crusaders on "Big Brother") make ME homophobic.....". :lol:

Nah, the 1950s had some fantastic rockabilly music from the likes of Hasil Adkins, Johnny Burnette and Carl Perkins.

Nah, the 1950s had some fantastic rockabilly music from the likes of Hasil Adkins, Johnny Burnette and Carl Perkins.

 

tbh i agree

 

how can we knock the 50's when we werent there to understand it in its context and see beyond the chart fodder.

 

 

In the 80s everyone thought Stock/Aitken/Waterman was killing music, in the 90s people hated Eurodance and boybands/girlbands...every single decade has lots of classic songs and there'll always be people calling it the worst era ever, and bring back the days of insert-decade-here, etc.

 

Just to think that Stock/Aitken/Waterman started Kylie's career. The so-called Eurodance (I presume you mean Techno, Rave, Hardcore and Trance) from the 90s. This was when dance music was at it's best.

Unlike today when it is all samples and loops.

 

As for pure pop this decade. It's been all rubbish like Mc$h!te and Pestlife. With the exception of Girls Aloud, Sugarbabes and the Take That come-back it's been rubbish.

 

Just to think that Stock/Aitken/Waterman started Kylie's career. The so-called Eurodance (I presume you mean Techno, Rave, Hardcore and Trance) from the 90s. This was when dance music was at it's best.

Unlike today when it is all samples and loops.

 

As for pure pop this decade. It's been all rubbish like Mc$h!te and Pestlife. With the exception of Girls Aloud, Sugarbabes and the Take That come-back it's been rubbish.

 

dunno... ok dance music recently has been samples/loops/cheesy covers, but there are some good original tracks... juliet 'avalon', re-flekt 'need to feel loved' and currently eric prydz 'pjanoo' proves theres some decent original dance this decade.

...and that's only commercial dance. Although it's hard to spot the line between dance and guitar music with some 'electro' bands these days.

 

Unfortunately there's a huge market out there for faceless studio bods to lift a well known chorus, plunge a filter through it and plop some beats on top. Also the original artists love it as they get a pay day. Ministry of Sound sponsored releases such as this are the music equivalent of I'm a Celebrity Get Me Out Of Here.

 

 

FULL TRUTH.... It's really depressing that these young kids just cannot see that it's the old men like Cowell, Waterman and Walsh that are calling the shots, not the young bucks as it should be....

 

The G.A.Y. crowd also has a lot to answer for.. I've never understood why for what seems like the majority of gay people, being gay means that your musical tastes are defined by mindless, juvenile drivel..... Many of my gay/bi friends (who, by the way, have exceptional tastes in music...) are just totally moritified by this.... As one gay pal put it.. "I may be gay, but these camp arseholes (ie, the G.A.Y minions and the camp crusaders on "Big Brother") make ME homophobic.....". :lol:

 

For me personnaly, there is a difference between liking a track and knowing it's a GREAT track (lets say, 'Unfinished Sympathy') and liking a track and knowing, well, it's pretty disposable but still secretly get a kick out of it (this will probably apply to the majority of SAW's output).

 

I'm known for my fondness for SAW's relentless hit-factory. But I absolutely HATED Steps!

 

And yes, us gay's have a lot to answer for.....

 

Disco... House... Techno... Garage...

 

Not bad eh?

Edited August 16, 200816 yr by ScottyEm

For me personnaly, there is a difference between liking a track and knowing it's a GREAT track (lets say, 'Unfinished Sympathy') and liking a track and knowing, well, it's pretty disposable but still secretly get a kick out of it (this will probably apply to the majority of SAW's output).

 

I'm known for my fondness for SAW's relentless hit-factory. But I absolutely HATED Steps!

 

And yes, us gay's have a lot to answer for.....

 

Disco... House... Techno... Garage...

 

Not bad eh?

 

thats true that you can like a three minute disposable pop song for its easy listening value....

 

but are you seriously saying that gay people are responsible for disco, house, techno, garage?... :lol:

 

ok some styles of music do seem to have a large gay following, but to answer for?

Disco came out of the gay scene, which in turn Disco turned into other off-shoots such as High Energy. Most appropriately, disco evolved into house which evolved into Techno and Garage and so forth.

 

Quite fittingly, S/A/W were heavily influenced by the house scene that was exploding in the lat 80s. You can really hear it coming through on those Mel and Kim tracks.

Disco came out of the gay scene, which in turn Disco turned into other off-shoots such as High Energy. Most appropriately, disco evolved into house which evolved into Techno and Garage and so forth.

 

Quite fittingly, S/A/W were heavily influenced by the house scene that was exploding in the lat 80s. You can really hear it coming through on those Mel and Kim tracks.

 

im not so sure about that.

 

did the gay scene cause disco or did the gay scene adopt disco music?... i dunno, it was american. as for s/a/w i think that was adopted, appealed, to the gay scene as oposed to being created by the gay scene.

 

pop was 'straight' lead but it didnt stop a large gay following.

 

as i understand it 'house' didnt evolve from disco , it was the 'follow on' dance music but arose from the 'dance vaccume' disco left after it had became unfashionable. i thought it had its roots more in the post punk indie scene which (as happened before s/a/w ) was all for experimentation. post punk early 80's was full of innovative music where people were fusing genres.

 

however, im neither gay nor a big fan of dance music (pre-90's) so my opinions here arent 'fixed' nor difinitive.

Disco came out of the gay scene, which in turn Disco turned into other off-shoots such as High Energy. Most appropriately, disco evolved into house which evolved into Techno and Garage and so forth.

 

Quite fittingly, S/A/W were heavily influenced by the house scene that was exploding in the lat 80s. You can really hear it coming through on those Mel and Kim tracks.

im not so sure about that.

 

did the gay scene cause disco or did the gay scene adopt disco music?... i dunno, it was american. as for s/a/w i think that was adopted, appealed, to the gay scene as oposed to being created by the gay scene.

 

pop was 'straight' lead but it didnt stop a large gay following.

 

as i understand it 'house' didnt evolve from disco , it was the 'follow on' dance music but arose from the 'dance vaccume' disco left after it had became unfashionable.

 

 

Think ScottyEm's view is much nearer the point - esp after reading/watching histories of the genre...tho Rob, you want to align it more with the post-punk thing because the post-punk thing has more credibilty and more coolness...and if you've lived though the late 1970 and 1980s i guess that you will only equate disco with ultra-commercial c**p and think that things like Steve Dahl's Disco Demolition Derby Night (July 12, 1979, Comiskey Park Chicago at the baseball game between the Chicago White Sox and the Detroit Tigers) can only be a good thing....when there is so much more and so many innovators lost under all the mass-market stuff that was probs got a guest slot on the black & white minstral show (some how i guess 'All You Need Is Love' won't have a disco episode coming up...)

 

from The History of Chicago House Music http://www.globaldarkness.com/articles/his...icago_house.htm

 

"House music takes its name from an old Chicago night club called The Warehouse, where the resident DJ, Frankie Knuckles, mixed old disco classics, new Eurobeat pop and synthesised beats into a frantic high- energy amalgamation of recycled soul. Frankie is more than a DJ, he's an architect of sound, who has taken the art of mixing to new heights. Regulars at the Warehouse remember it as the most atmospheric place in Chicago, the pioneering nerve-center of a thriving dance music scene where old Philly classics by Harold Melvin, Billy Paul and The O'Jays were mixed with upfront disco hits like Martin Circus' "Disco Circus" and imported European pop music by synthesiser groups like Kraftwerk and Telex"

 

"According to Frankie Knuckles, house is not a break with the black music of the past, but an extreme re-invention of the dance music of yesterday. He sees House music with a very clear tradition, a kind of two-way love affair with the city of New York and the sound of disco. If he were to list his favorite records, they would be a reader's guide to disco, including Colonel Abrams "Trapped", Sharon Redd's "Can You Handle It", Fat Lerry's "Act Like You Know", Positive Force "You Got The Funk" Jimmy Bo Horn "Spank", D-Train "You're The One". But most of all he relishes the sound where the church and the dancefloor are thrown together with a willful disregard for religious propriety. Religion weaves its way through the house sound in ways that would confound the disbelievers.

 

Most Chicago DJ's admit a debt to the underground 1970's underground club scene in New York and particulary the original disco-mixer Walter Gibbons, a white DJ who popularised the basic techniques of disco-mixing, then graduated to Salsoul Records where he turned otherwise unremarkable dance records into monumental sculptures of sound. It was Gibbons who paved the way for the disc-jockey's historical shift from the twin-decks to the production studio. "

 

Farley Jackmaster Funk - Love Can't Turn Around

(to be found on one of those Crimson Records 'Absolute Disco' compilations but i think its the one with the black cover not the glitterball one with Nu Shooez and Ten City on it)

 

Frankie Knuckles - Tears

 

Joe Smooth/Anthony Thomas - Promised Land

 

yeah all these would probs just been seen as being disco records now as black dance music = disco to many (with chessy disco being seen as pure pop) with commercial dance being seen as more white genre that wouldnt get an award at the mobos and i guess being like so different from what you get in Ibiza....

 

 

or in frickin' Blackburn :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

:up Scooter sing the Sisters Of Mercy (moo! moo! :cheer: :cheer: )

 

i dont think theres any one whole decade where music was c**p.. there have been good 'eras' and bad 'eras' in every decade. and of course alot depends upon your taste.. i couldnt stand the sounds that were around in the late 80's or early 90's, but others (grebo for eg) liked the new sounds.

 

if pushed, id suggest that the worst consecutive ten years was 87-97.

 

think he might have a point there....maybe music decades dont run like 1960 - 1969, maybe they are better to be looked at like 67 - 77 or 87 - 97 maybe music vibes are out of sync with the western callender

 

(btw is 'grebo for eg' a charity record where PWEI end up singing Duffy :lol: )

You can always rely on tigerboy for a great, comprehensive read!

 

Great tracks there. I've seen that footage of Darryl Pandy before, very charismatic, very camp! Also love Frankie Knuckles 'Tears' - a TRUE pioneer in the foundations of house music AND an openly gay man aswell (have never overly liked Joe Smooths 'Promised Land' unfortunately...).

 

 

1730's.... f***in' awful decade, one i would like to forget.