i think that today, punk music is largely misunderstood by both its 'new' fans and how punk is seen historically. in this thread ill attempt to tell it like it was and why it was arguably the most important musical revolution in british music history, plus its legacy.

 

britain in 1976 was a miserable place, the euphoria that rocked us in the 60's was long over and both socially and politically we were in a drab time. the economy was stale, the trade unions were too powerful, so the youth of the mid 70's had precious little hope of anything in the future. ordinary kids had 3 choices as a career... the local factory/pit, the forces or the dole.

 

music was polarised, you had to belong top one camp or another, the way you dressed gave a very good idea as to which music you were 'in to'. most of the big names from the 60's , who started out as mods, had now grown their hair, donned denim and like floyd or the who were into stadium rock and progressive rock. the musical frivolity that was glam had all but died, leaving an environment of really bland pop. a new dance craze from america was taking over clubs... disco, started to replace sweet soul as 'the' dance style, 'smooth' or 'soul boys' with their poncey back comber hair, oxford bags, bomber jacket and wide lapelled open neck shirts frequented the clubs. rock music was popular amongst younger people (older seemed to prefer prog rock), and kids on motorbikes wearing denim cut offs over their leather jackets (ala hells angel stylee) became established as a genre with its generic style.

 

yep, there was a very diverse variety... but it was commonplace for one group of people to pick fights with another just like mods n rockers in the mid 60's. music was very intollerant, very snobish and very polarised.

 

punk music originated in america (like most other musical styles before) but somehow it didnt find much of a home there. in britain however the social and political climate was perfect, and just like the brits took american music and explored it making it our own in the 60's, thats exactly what happened in the mid 70's.

 

the voice of punk became johnny rotten (lydon), in the right place at the right time this surprisingly articulate and inteligent young man broke the mould. im not going into the story of the sex pistols, thats almost an irrelevance surfice to say the pistols were to punk what the beatles were to the 60's.... the catalyst. "no one created me" lydon proclaims, true, ignore mcclaren, he helped the pistols, true, but did not create punk.

 

was punk just a noise?.... well yes it was, deliberately so too. it was 'in yer face', and two firm fingers up to the establishment, who were seemingly ignoring a whole generation of young people... young people desperate to find an identity of their own. young people releasing fury at their apparent desperation.

 

punk ethics?... well what started out as a possible tantrum soon became a movement with its own set of values. what punk did was give EVERYBODY a voice, because we were getting no guidance from other areas, its about doing it for yourself. 'do anything you wanna do'.. punk ethics gave everybody a voice and brought free thinking to a disaffected generation. you didnt have to be a uni student to have an opinion, anybody could do it.. and it was this free thinking message that is the greatest legacy of the punk movement.

 

very soon after the initial shock, punk grew and developed. the hardcore 'noisy, angry style was used by the politically motivated (like crass) whilst the mainstream soon tamed down somewhat and became 'new wave', and adopted many of the styles from the 60's both fashion and musical.

 

like the 60's boom in inovation, punk did the same, exploring fashions, musical styles, new sounds and unlike the 60's became much more politically aware.

 

the legacy of punk?... indie/alternative music, ska... i bet the two tone scene wouldnt have happened without punk creating the environment. new romantics?... yep... a natural progression and incorporating electronic music and famously the likes of spandau ballet and the human league claiming they played 'funk' and 'dance music'. so most of the dance trends that started in the 80's through house, can be traced back to punks legacy. goth... siouxsie sioux and her iconic look accidentally created a whole new genre, one that soon superceeded her, and all the early great 'goth' bands are rooted in punk.

 

fashions... spiked hair is still the most popular hairstyle today amongst young men... and the 'indie' copycat fashions are all punk based.

 

interestingly perhaps the biggest impact punk paved the way for was alternative comedy.. pre-punk all the tv comedies relied very heavily on homophobic, sexist or racist jokes. free thinking punks knew this was wrong, even greats like monty python and spike milligan used sexist, racist or homophobic jokes. the likes of ben elton, alexi sayle, rik n ade, used the new free thinking attitudes of the emerging pc attitudes. they kicked out 'ist' jokes, as racism, homophobia and sexism wasnt acceptable. through the 'young ones' and 'saturday night live' many of todays best comedians arose. harry enfield cut his teeth on saturday night live... and that lead to sketch shows ... little britian, fast show, catherine tate... whilst character p*** takes like green wing, father ted etc are the natural progression from the young ones and blackadder.

 

like punk music or not, its played a huge part in shaping the britain we live in today, by giving a generation an oportunity to express iyself, question things and decide what is right and what is not.

 

as i see it, punk finished what the 60's started but failed to complete.... who is the greater icon, lydon or lennon?.. for my money theres no clear winner, both were hugely influencial in creating the great british music scene we know today.

 

if only todays youth had the inspiration to create something new instead of rating post punk manufactred bollox as credible.... sigh.

This really is a great article. One must also remember that it wasn't just the bands making punk music that made a difference but DJs like John Peel that were willing to give it a voice on national radio or presenters like Tony Wilson who would annoy the crumblies in the Granada region by allowing punk acts to be heard just before tea time. Without such visionaries as these we'd be stuck with the populist c**p in the media that the mid-70s was so fond of....

 

Bruce Forsyth on a Saturday night, TV talent shows to find 'the next big thing', comedy sketch shows where stereotypes are exploited for cruel laughs?

 

Oh f***........

 

Where's the revolution?

to highlight pre-punk chart music (see punk thread) i thought id post this.. a chart from 32 years ago.

 

as you can see, theres some well known tracks, but very few tracks that are saying something, they are mainly disposable love songs.

 

Top 40 Hits of Early October 1976

 

1 Abba - Dancing Queen

2 Pussycat - Mississippi

3 The Real Thing - Can't Get By Without You

4 Rod Stewart - Sailing

5 The Wurzels - I Am A Cider Drinker

6 Rick Dees & His Cast Of Idiots - Disco Duck

7 Bay City Rollers - I Only Wanna Be With You

8 Tina Charles - Dance Little Lady Dance

9 Sherbet - Howzat

10 Elvis Presley - Girl Of My Best Friend

11 Mr Acker Bilk - Aria

12 Manfred Mann's Earth Band - Blinded By The Light

13 The Ritchie Family - The Best Disco In Town

14 Demis Roussos - When Forever Has Gone

15 Kiki Dee - Loving And Free

16 Rod Stewart - The Killing Of Georgie

17 Georghe Zamfir - (Light Of Experience) Doina De Jale

18 The Manhattans - Hurt

19 Twiggy - Here I Go Again

20 Smokey Robinson & The Miracles -I'll Meet You At Midnight ... surely that should be just 'smokie'

21 JALN Band - Disco Music (I Like It)

22 James Brown - Get Up Offa That Thing

23 The Detroit Spinners - The Rubberband Man

24 Can - I Want More

25 Randy Edelman - Uptown, Uptempo Woman

26 Jesse Green - Nice And Slow

27 England Dan & John Ford Coley - I'd Really Love To See You Tonight

28 Tavares - Don't Take Away The Music

29 Cliff Richard - I Can't Ask For Anything More Than You Babe

30 Simon May - The Summer Of My Life

31 Chicago - If You Leave Me Now

32 Tommy Hunt - Loving On The Losing Side

33 The Drifters - Every Nite's A Saturday Night With You

34 Wings - Let 'Em In

35 The Chi-Lites -You Don't Have To Go

36 Wild Cherry - Play That Funky Music

37 Smokey Robinson & The Miracles - Tears Of A Clown

38 Elton John - Benny And The Jets

39 T Rex - Laser Love

40 Billie Jo Spears - What I've Got In Mind

 

not much different than the 25/09/76 chart posted the other week ;)

 

Yeah, in retrospect a bland chart with no real musical direction other than middle of the road stuff.

 

To be honest, I don't think punk made as much difference to the chart in 1977 as people think. It was a big media thing but let's not forget that the Sex Pistols failed to reach #1, kept off the top by Rod Stewart! The old guard still were standing strong. The bigger change in 1977 was the inclusion of Virgin on the chart panel which allowed the Pistols to get as high as they did and which led to more variety of musical styles creeping into the chart. It's no coincidence that the charts had stagnated when Woolies joined the chart panel in 1974. 1977 also saw the decline in chart terms of some of the horrors that appear in this chart, Demis Roussos and The Wurzels in particular. 1977 saw disco rise faster than punk in my opinion, and 1978 became a wonderful free for all, especially after the summer, with so many different musical styles charting and even then there was still room for middle of the road stuff and silliness like Car 67 by Driver 67 could still chart!

 

I suppose one thing that can be said of punk (and to a certain extent, disco) is that it led to younger record buyers taking back control of the chart. Much of what was charting in 1976 could have been bought by my granny, let alone my mother! Ultimately punk and disco did shake up the chart but not before the former had morphed into new wave.

and these were the albums that we were buying back then...

 

w/e 09/10/76

 

01 08 02 Stupidity Dr Feelgood

02 02 27 Greatest Hits - Abba Abba

03 01 04 Best Of The Stylistics Vol.2 Stylistics

04 06 03 Dedication Bay City Rollers

05 03 14 20 Golden Greats - Beach Boys Beach Boys

06 05 15 A Night On The Town Rod Stewart

07 04 10 Greatest Hits 2 Diana Ross

08 07 14 Laughter And Tears Neil Sedaka

09 16 52 Atlantic Crossing Rod Stewart

10 11 04 The Roaring Silence Manfred Mann's Earthband

 

11 10 26 Wings At The Speed Of Sound Wings

12 14 03 Modern Music Be-Bop Deluxe

13 18 21 Frampton Comes Alive Peter Frampton

14 09 49 Forever And Ever Demis Roussos

15 NE 01 Long May You Run Stills-Young Band

16 NE 01 Hard Rain Bob Dylan

17 24 07 Great Italian Love Songs Various Artists

18 15 06 Spirit John Denver

19 31 02 Let'S Stick Together Bryan Ferry

20 27 27 Jailbreak Thin Lizzy

 

there's as many horrors here as on the singles chart... though that number one is a surprise as I can't remember that album ever reaching number one!

not much different than the 25/09/76 chart posted the other week ;)

 

Yeah, in retrospect a bland chart with no real musical direction other than middle of the road stuff.

 

To be honest, I don't think punk made as much difference to the chart in 1977 as people think. It was a big media thing but let's not forget that the Sex Pistols failed to reach #1, kept off the top by Rod Stewart! The old guard still were standing strong. The bigger change in 1977 was the inclusion of Virgin on the chart panel which allowed the Pistols to get as high as they did and which led to more variety of musical styles creeping into the chart. It's no coincidence that the charts had stagnated when Woolies joined the chart panel in 1974. 1977 also saw the decline in chart terms of some of the horrors that appear in this chart, Demis Roussos and The Wurzels in particular. 1977 saw disco rise faster than punk in my opinion, and 1978 became a wonderful free for all, especially after the summer, with so many different musical styles charting and even then there was still room for middle of the road stuff and silliness like Car 67 by Driver 67 could still chart!

 

I suppose one thing that can be said of punk (and to a certain extent, disco) is that it led to younger record buyers taking back control of the chart. Much of what was charting in 1976 could have been bought by my granny, let alone my mother! Ultimately punk and disco did shake up the chart but not before the former had morphed into new wave.

 

well it could be argued that punk failed to take over any chart... indeed there was never a proliferation of punk records in the singles chart, even if you include 'new wave' too.

 

the pistols might not have officially not reached #1, but everybody knows that that chart was fixed, as was the norm in them days.

 

punk music in its raw form was never going to be a 'big thing' in itself, it had to morph into new wave, however punk isnt just a style of music, it was (as in the punk thread) a way of thinking, an attitude, and this transcended the initial cry of desperation.

 

an analogy i once heard... "if a rowing boat is listing heavily to one side, you dont stand in the middle to right it" ... punk music had to be extreme in order to get music back on track. it succeeded.

 

punk was a generation thing, with very few 'old guard hippies' changing. so the charts would always have c**p granny music in it. punk returned musical direction to the youth, where it belongs .... its no co-incidence that the post punk music scene was the most diverse the charts have ever seen with charts from 79-82 full of diversity, punk ethics created the environment for this to happen.

Yes, it was a Myth that Punk 'Ruled' in the late 1970's. I was still buying ABBA

Records - before, during, & after, Punk/New Wave.

 

There was never a Punk No.1 Single - unless you count 'Rat Trap' by Boomtown

Rats (1978). And that was seen as 'New Wave' in Britain - and a rip off of Bruce

Springsteen's 'Born To Run', by many Americans. Blondie were seen as 'New Wave'

too, & they had to start becoming as 'Pop' as ABBA to get to No.1 - 'Heart Of Glass',

'Sunday Girl', etc.

 

I don't believe that 'God Save The Queen' was 'cheated' out of the No.1 spot, by

BMRB 'rigging' the Chart, in 1977.

 

The Sex Pistols Single reached No.1 in the 'NME' Chart - but it was No.5 in 'Melody

Maker' & No.2 in BMRB. That's 2 Charts out of 3 that it failed to reach No.1 in.

 

Funny, but no-one ever says that 'NME' 'cheated' 'Never Mind The Bollocks' out of

the No.1 spot - that Sex Pistols Album got to No.2 in 'NME' - but - No.1 (2 Weeks), in BMRB.

So the Sex Pistols may have reached No.1 in the 'NME' Singles Chart, but their Album

Peaked at No.2 in 'NME'. Yet it reached No.1 in the Chart that the BBC used.....

Edited October 9, 200816 yr by zeus555

Yes, it was a Myth that Punk 'Ruled' in the late 1970's. I was still buying ABBA

Records - before, during, & after, Punk/New Wave.

 

There was never a Punk No.1 Single - unless you count 'Rat Trap' by Boomtown

Rats (1978). And that was seen as 'New Wave' in Britain - and a rip off of Bruce

Springsteen's 'Born To Run', by many Americans. Blondie were seen as 'New Wave'

too, & they had to start becoming as 'Pop' as ABBA to get to No.1 - 'Heart Of Glass',

'Sunday Girl', etc.

 

I don't believe that 'God Save The Queen' was 'cheated' out of the No.1 spot, by

BMRB 'rigging' the Chart, in 1977.

 

The Sex Pistols Single reached No.1 in the 'NME' Chart - but it was No.5 in 'Melody

Maker' & No.2 in BMRB. That's 2 Charts out of 3 that it failed to reach No.1 in.

 

Funny, but no-one ever says that 'NME' 'cheated' 'Never Mind The Bollocks' out of

the No.1 spot - that Sex Pistols Album got to No.2 in 'NME' - but - No.1 (2 Weeks), in BMRB.

So the Sex Pistols may have reached No.1 in the 'NME' Singles Chart, but their Album

Peaked at No.2 in 'NME'. Yet it reached No.1 in the Chart that the BBC used.....

 

the truth is that we will never know. the charts were routinely rigged, people were paid to buy records en mass from selected shops that were known to be used to compile the charts.

 

however i did read that 'god save the queen' DID sell more records then rod stewart in that week but the chart was rigged out of respect for the queen whos jubilee it was .

 

albums were probably more reliable as they were more expensive, but the singles charts were totally unreliable. thats one thing todays charts are better at...they ARE more accurate due to modern technology.

.... and im not so sure that it was a myth that punk ruled... like i said, it certainly didnt rule the charts as a raw musical style... but it created the environment, the movement, for new artistes to explore new (or re-vamped 60's) sounds.

 

'rat trap' would NEVER have been #1, 2 years earlier, and by 79 the charts were full of tracks punk carved the way for.

 

blondie WERE punk, they were in at the beginings in new york, but like many acts ... 'sold out' and soon dropped their punk credentials after they had made a name for themselves and went 'disco'... heart of glass, atomic, union city blue etc...

.... and im not so sure that it was a myth that punk ruled... like i said, it certainly didnt rule the charts as a raw musical style... but it created the environment, the movement, for new artistes to explore new (or re-vamped 60's) sounds.

 

'rat trap' would NEVER have been #1, 2 years earlier, and by 79 the charts were full of tracks punk carved the way for.

 

blondie WERE punk, they were in at the beginings in new york, but like many acts ... 'sold out' and soon dropped their punk credentials after they had made a name for themselves and went 'disco'... heart of glass, atomic, union city blue etc...

punk was as much an attitude of mind as it was a musical style or movement and the likes of the Boomtown Rats and Blondie had that in abundance, as did many of the acts that made it big in 1978-1982. For that we should be grateful, otherwise the UK charts may have become redundant by the late 70s. The punk ethos also put the emphasis back on the 45 single, and that in turn refreshed the charts. The Floyds and Zeps had abandoned the single and the singles chart had been left to the likes of The Wurzels - no wonder Johnnie Walker walked out on Radio 1 and his lunchtime show, apparently he was told to play Combine Harvester and was even threatening to refuse to do so when it reached #1 on his Tuesday lunchtime new chart countdown!

 

In the US punk itself made very little impact on their charts but new wave did have some limited success. Over there some DJs called it "new wave rock n roll" and lumped in the likes of The Cars and The Knack alongside Blondie and The Police. It took MTV to shake up the US charts and that led to the so called "second British invasion". So our charts were shaken up in 1978-1982 but the US saw a limited shake up until 1982 and then 1982 to 1986 saw the big shake up over there.

 

That said, at the height of new wave, punk and disco, only the UK could still place Lena Martell at number one!

punk was as much an attitude of mind as it was a musical style or movement and the likes of the Boomtown Rats and Blondie had that in abundance, as did many of the acts that made it big in 1978-1982. For that we should be grateful, otherwise the UK charts may have become redundant by the late 70s. The punk ethos also put the emphasis back on the 45 single, and that in turn refreshed the charts. The Floyds and Zeps had abandoned the single and the singles chart had been left to the likes of The Wurzels - no wonder Johnnie Walker walked out on Radio 1 and his lunchtime show, apparently he was told to play Combine Harvester and was even threatening to refuse to do so when it reached #1 on his Tuesday lunchtime new chart countdown!

 

In the US punk itself made very little impact on their charts but new wave did have some limited success. Over there some DJs called it "new wave rock n roll" and lumped in the likes of The Cars and The Knack alongside Blondie and The Police. It took MTV to shake up the US charts and that led to the so called "second British invasion". So our charts were shaken up in 1978-1982 but the US saw a limited shake up until 1982 and then 1982 to 1986 saw the big shake up over there.

 

That said, at the height of new wave, punk and disco, only the UK could still place Lena Martell at number one!

 

yep... spot on :)

I meant to also post - with regards to the Sex Pistols "did they or didn't they reach number one" debate: Richard Branson much later admitted that he had seen the sales data and he conceded that the Sex Pistols had been outsold by Rod Stewart. That said, the sales data (which presented in a less sophisticated manner back then) was based on a calculation of "chart panel sales" not unit sales as we have now and was calculated with reference to sampled stores which was meant to represent that chart panel as a whole. The belief is that the sample that week excluded Virgin store sales.

 

As the raw data used in the chart calculation for any given week was never disclosed, it wasn't possible to prove or disprove what stores were used, so the belief that Virgin store returns were ignored for that week can't be proven... or disproven.

 

Finally, an off-topic but slightly relevant "did you know"... the chart compilers fromk back then, British Market Research Bureau, are still going, though not now involved in music business research but they are owned by... the Millward Brown Group whose subsidiary of the same name (Millward Brown) is the current chart compiler...

Edited October 10, 200816 yr by Robbie

I meant to also post - with regards to the Sex Pistols "did they or didn't they reach number one" debate: Richard Branson much later admitted that he had seen the sales data and he conceded that the Sex Pistols had been outsold by Rod Stewart. That said, the sales data (which presented in a less sophisticated manner back then) was based on a calculation of "chart panel sales" not unit sales as we have now and was calculated with reference to sampled stores which was meant to represent that chart panel as a whole. The belief is that the sample that week excluded Virgin store sales.

 

As the raw data used in the chart calculation for any given week was never disclosed, it wasn't possible to prove or disprove what stores were used, so the belief that Virgin store returns were ignored for that week can't be proven... or disproven.

 

Finally, an off-topic but slightly relevant "did you know"... the chart compilers fromk back then, British Market Research Bureau, are still going, though not now involved in music business research but they are owned by... the Millward Brown Group whose subsidiary of the same name (Millward Brown) is the current chart compiler...

 

indeed i dont think the truth will ever be known as sales were calculated more then counted. only certain stores in certain towns were used... maybe a true reflection on total sales, probably not .

 

interesting!

right.... ive merged this thread with the chart from 76 thread as many posts pertainent to this thread were posted there. ive deleted several posts that were relating to the posted chart as they are no longer needed on this thread... :)

Punk begat just about everything that is considered "alternative", New Romantic, Goth, Industrial, Indie (as was in the 80s/90s), "Straight Edge", Metalcore, Nu Metal, Grunge... The list is endless....

 

id go further and suggest that just about all of todays music has been influenced in some way by the cultural revolution that was punk. (uk/european music anyway... maybe not black american music).

 

oops.... sorry scott, i wasnt concentrating on what i was doing and edited your post instead of quoting it..:lol:

eh?... the first time was my error, but the appology was done proper... i wonder where this post will end up?

eh?... the first time was my error, but the appology was done proper... i wonder where this post will end up?

 

Oi, you daft old bugger..... :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

To have one Homer Simpson moment can be considered unfortunate, to have TWO..... :P :P :lol:

 

Dont have time just now to RE-POST what I said (Uni beckons....). Will try to remember later on....

 

 

 

This really is a great article.

 

not gonna read it at the moment as too much to read - maybe still a bit drunk - tho was in bar last night talking to me mates girlfriend whos like your regualr boho studenty quirky but cool kinda type and we're talking about various retro musics - all the usual suspects come up from the 60s 70s and 80s (monkees, kinks, who and yeah s/a/w was mentioned in a positive light too) and we get onto the subject punk...but we start talking about all the late 90s/early 00s stuff like the offspring and others who might turn up in Dougie Poynter's record collection and it was a good job me mate came over as i was one sentance away from mentioning Avril Lavigne...which might have shattered the cool bar vibe :lol:

not gonna read it at the moment as too much to read - maybe still a bit drunk - tho was in bar last night talking to me mates girlfriend whos like your regualr boho studenty quirky but cool kinda type and we're talking about various retro musics - all the usual suspects come up from the 60s 70s and 80s (monkees, kinks, who and yeah s/a/w was mentioned in a positive light too) and we get onto the subject punk...but we start talking about all the late 90s/early 00s stuff like the offspring and others who might turn up in Dougie Poynter's record collection and it was a good job me mate came over as i was one sentance away from mentioning Avril Lavigne...which might have shattered the cool bar vibe :lol:

 

modern punk is a nonsense...it shouldnt even be labeled 'punk'. it aint about being 'cool', its about historical fact. and the facts are that british punk rock music exploded on the music/youth culture scene due to the socio-economic climate for britains youth in the mid-late 70's. it was a genuine cry of rebellion that quickly turned into a movement of innovation and creativity. "we arnt happy with that, we arnt accepting that, we are going to do this"

modern punk is a nonsense...

 

Not all of it is bad though mate - I think the likes of System of a Down, Amen and Gallows manage to incorporate the spirit of Punk into their music pretty well an manage to make it an articulate cry of rebellion, but yeah, the likes of Offspring, Green Day and Blink 182 more or less completely miss the point, mind you, GD did hit the target once or twice with "American Idiot" (single), "Minority" and "Jesus of Suburbia", Offspring I think hit it once with "The Kids Aren't Alright"....

 

Of course there's no real comparison to the greats - Sex Pistols, Clash, Siouxsie, Crass, The Damned, The Exploited, and 80s hardcore US bands like Black Flag or Dead Kenndys....