[quote name='BUGGER CRIMBO' date='Dec 8 2008, 10:18 AM' post='2328059'

 

a longing to keep dr who a white male DOESNT make anyone racist, sexist, sizeist or anti semitic! its simply wanting to uphold a tradition so it doesnt fall victim to the pc brigade.

 

Er, no, sorry, I'm afraid it DOES, because you are NOT judging the actor on his competency or his ability. You are judging him on the colour of his skin, that is the very definition of racism... And you continually refuse to take into account either that The Doctor is non-human, alien and shifts forms, so if the producers wanted him to be a bloody computer-generated talking KANGAROO then that would be perfectly acceptable.....

 

It has nothing to do with PC, it's about redressing the balance, all too often our talented young black actors are heading off to the States because they just cannot get the breaks or any decent parts in this country... Thandie Newton, a Zimbabwean/British actress has carved most of her career in the US because she gets better opportunities... She's a bloody BAFTA-award winning (for her role in "Crash", which, ironically, is all about racial conflicts in LA) and Golden Globe nominated actress, which is a bit more than can be said for the over-rated, over-exposed likes of Keira fukkin' Knightley and Sienna Miller.....

 

In the past 20 odd years, the US has cultivated an army of incredibly talented Black actors and actresses... Denzel Washington, Morgan Freeman, Eddie Murphy (whom I dont personally like, but can see the appeal for some...), Wesley Snipes, Halle Berry, Whoopi Goldberg, Angela Bassett, Samuel L Jackson, Don Cheadle, etc.... Also, US TV shows have heavily featured black actors and actresses - The Cosby Show, Law and Order, Homicide, The Wire, to name but a few.... Also, black directors such as Spike Lee have flourished...

 

So, the question must be asked, in terms of high profile, just where the hell are OUR Denzels, Morgans, Eddies, Whoopis, Spikes and Halles.....? They simply dont exist at the moment, and I seriously doubt it's because they lack the talent (the award-winning, acclaimed Thandie Newton being a case in point), the press over the years being way too concerned in this country over the likes of Hugh Grant, Liz Hurley (just what the fukk was her contribution to cinema again...? :rolleyes: ) or whether or not Keira bloody Knightley is anorexic, who sodding Sienna Miller is shagging this week, etc.....

 

Patterson Joseph being The Doctor is a bold, progressive step, as bold as Hollywood casting Sidney Poitier as Mr Tibbs (a BLACK COP.... OMG :o :o :o ), and similarly this might lead to a similar opening of the floodgates to brash, precocious, new black talent to be cultivated here (such as Noel Clark for his rather excellent acting/directing role in "Adulthood", and Ashley Walters who has astounded in his roles in films like "Bullet Boy" and "Sugarhouse", but of course, these are LOW BUDGET films innit, which dont get the hype, how surprising :rolleyes: ....), and for them to perhaps be able to STAY here and not feel like they have to bugger off to the US to get decent roles, and us losing them forever..... Losing either Noel Clark or Ashley Walters to the States would be a disaster for contemporary Brit Cinema/TV, these young actors could be our Denzels or Wesleys, but they need to be cultivated.... Patterson Joseph being The Doctor could be the way we keep the talent HERE.....

 

It's just a pity that you and Craig are too fukkin' pig ignorant to appreciate this..... -_-

no it isnt... tennants reign is as close to the hartnell/troughton/pertwee/baker years as you can be, apart from the fact they barely get off earth!!!! santa clause is traditional too.... would a black santa look right?... why is the concept of having a traditionally fixed charactor so unacceptional to you? oh yeah....its an opportinuity to 'have a go' at the oldies <_<.

 

a longing to keep dr who a white male DOESNT make anyone racist, sexist, sizeist or anti semitic! its simply wanting to uphold a tradition so it doesnt fall victim to the pc brigade.

 

There are already black santa's so there's hardly anything unusual there, for one he's not real (sowwy kids). And alas for Doctor Who, he is a fictional character!

 

Crikey o'riley there's some issues in here.

and?..... the complaint was about a white man playing an arab...

 

I wasn't complaining about it, I thought he did rather well in the role.. Merely pointing out YOUR double standard, that for you to be such a stickler for "tradition" and "cultural/historical accuracy" to not have a problem with a white, English actor playing an Arabic secret service agent while at the same time having such hostility to a black, English actor playing a bloody time-travelling, alien, form-shifting Timelord is a bit fukkin' curious...... :lol: :lol:

 

Also, if we go by yours and Craig's "amazing" logic then -

 

David Tenant would not be allowed to play Casanova, because he aint Italian

Glenn Close and John Malkovich wouldn't have been able to play French Aristocrats in "Dangerous Liaisons" because they're Americans

Kirsten Dunst wouldn't have been allowed to play Marie Antoinette because she aint French

Johnathan Rhys Meyers would have been prevented from playing Henry VIII in the fantastic "Tudors" because he's Irish

Russell Crowe would have been prevented from playing Maximus in "Gladiator" because he's not Spanish/Roman and similarly Richard Harris would have been prevented from playing Marcus Aurelius in that film because he is not Italian

Marlon Brando would have been prevented from playing Don Corleone because he wasn't from Sicily....

 

Need I go on...? Or do you actually get the fukkin' point.....? It's ACTING DEAR BOY...... :rolleyes:

 

 

.....

Edited December 8, 200816 yr by B.A Baracus

There are already black santa's so there's hardly anything unusual there, for one he's not real (sowwy kids). And alas for Doctor Who, he is a fictional character!

 

Crikey o'riley there's some issues in here.

 

I quite agree.... I'm absolutely astonished by the attitude that Rob is showing and his total incapability at seeing this as a potentially (and potentially is kind of what it is, it's not 100% confirmed) bold step... Not so much so by Craig though, because he's got previous for having completely dodgy opinions bordering on sheer Nazism.... :rolleyes:

 

But it really IS quite depressing, this sheer hostility to the very idea of a Black actor playing The Doctor, especially as it has been established by the "tradition" of the role that The Doctor is a constantly changing being who regenerates and is not fixed historically in time or space, as he is a dimension-hopping TIME TRAVELLER.... :rolleyes:

 

You can't compare America with Britain mate, America is a much much bigger nation, many of the individual states dwarf Britain in size let alone entire country so of course America is going to have more black actors and more black orientated tv shows, also around 30% of Americans are black or hispanic compared with maybe 5% here in England and in America there is REAL poverty in ghettos so acting is a way out of the ghetto for many blacks, Samuel L Jackson for instance was bought up in the gang culture if I remember correct

 

If the BBC want to help the cause of blacks then commission some new black orientated tv shows, this is not the way to go about it

I quite agree.... I'm absolutely astonished by the attitude that Rob is showing and his total incapability at seeing this as a potentially (and potentially is kind of what it is, it's not 100% confirmed) bold step... Not so much so by Craig though, because he's got previous for having completely dodgy opinions bordering on sheer Nazism.... :rolleyes:

 

But it really IS quite depressing, this sheer hostility to the very idea of a Black actor playing The Doctor, especially as it has been established by the "tradition" of the role that The Doctor is a constantly changing being who regenerates and is not fixed historically in time or space, as he is a dimension-hopping TIME TRAVELLER.... :rolleyes:

 

I made ONE racist comment in my time here and while I was rightfully punished for it that comment was against a group that want to exterminate my religion so it was an "internal" jewish matter as opposed to a sign of general racism

 

You have a short memory Scott

 

1) Do you remember my objections to stop and search ? which would target mostly blacks

2) Do you remember my hostility to airlines searching muslim travellers only ?

3) Do you remember my criticim of the demonising of muslims after 7/7 and 21/7 ?

4) Do you remember a thread I set up recently gloating a the BNP getting their comeuppance ?

 

Very racist I am :huh:

"If the BBC want to help the cause of blacks then commission some new black orientated tv shows, this is not the way to go about it" - B A Baracus..

 

Had to do it this way, the quote thing seems to have totally buggered up on this post....

 

Anyway, yeah, and only BLACK people would really watch these shows innit...? A mainstream white audience probably wouldn't for the most part.... You're completely wrong in any case, and myself and other posters are seriously getting tired with having to point out to you two that The Doctor aint fixed in terms of race, time, space or even species.... The Doctor can be anyone or anything he/she/it wants to be.... Because of the way SFX and CGI are now, the possibilities are endless, only limited by imagination.... This, I feel I have to point out AGAIN, is the stuff of SCIENCE FICTION.......

 

I mean, when the technology became available, look at what James Cameron did in Terminator 2, he had a form-shifting cyborg, something that wasn't available as an option in the original.. The idea and concept EVOLVED mate......

 

Now, in the TV show, you have FEMALE terminators (Shirley Manson is a T-1000) and BLACK terminators too..... Ideas/concepts, EVOLVING.... Get it mate....?

 

Sorry mate, but you're sounding as pathetic as all these bloody Terminator "fanboys" out there who only ever want to see Arnie play the part and wont even countenance the thought of the TV show throwing up new, original (and rather good) ideas......

You can't compare America with Britain mate, America is a much much bigger nation, many of the individual states dwarf Britain in size let alone entire country so of course America is going to have more black actors and more black orientated tv shows, also around 30% of Americans are black or hispanic compared with maybe 5% here in England and in America there is REAL poverty in ghettos so acting is a way out of the ghetto for many blacks, Samuel L Jackson for instance was bought up in the gang culture if I remember correct

 

Blah, blah..... Okay, but the facts are we still HAVE a film industry here. And perhaps if we weren't so concerned with endlessly rehashing bloody costume dramas and Jane Austen and Charles Dickens adaptions, then we could concentrate on the contemporary a bit more, which would yield more opportunities for our young, ethnic talent.... I'm sorry, but is "heritage" cinema all the UK is good for....? Why is the more edgy, contemporary/ethnic stuff seemingly consigned to the independent or low-budget sector....? THIS is the question that we should seriously be asking....

 

And the fact that the likes of Thandie Newton, Colin Salmon and Chiewtal Ejiofor having to leave these shores for the majority of their careers to get any decent work and respect.... We are NOT good at keeping our talent here, at all.... You cannot possibly argue that it has been far easier for the likes of Hugh Grant, Daniel Craig and Keira Knightley to get on in the UK film industry than it has been for Newton and Ejiofor.....

In general if someone is black and good enough they will get through to the top, X Factor could be on the verge of having its second black winner in 3 years, F1 is dominated by a black man, half of the Premiership is black, many of our most successful athletes and boxers are black, so there is no reason why a black person can make it to the top on talent, what is demeaning towards black people and is very racist is quota systems/positive discrimination and blacks getting a helping hand because of their colour, Labour were in favour of black only shortlists in some constituencies, that alone is RACIST, then we have the racist MOBO awards and so on

 

 

 

then we have the racist MOBO awards and so on

 

No, the MOBO awards are just STUPID, not racist.... Because of it being "music of black origin", they got rid of the Jazz award or summat (LOL at that one.....) and don't take at all into account that Hard Rock/Metal music is based primarily on THE BLUES...... :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

So, really, the likes of AC/DC, Kings of Leon, Wolfmother and Alice Cooper should be in with as much of a shout (their music being so blatantly based upon The Blues...) as anyone else....

Blah, blah..... Okay, but the facts are we still HAVE a film industry here. And perhaps if we weren't so concerned with endlessly rehashing bloody costume dramas and Jane Austen and Charles Dickens adaptions, then we could concentrate on the contemporary a bit more, which would yield more opportunities for our young, ethnic talent.... I'm sorry, but is "heritage" cinema all the UK is good for....? Why is the more edgy, contemporary/ethnic stuff seemingly consigned to the independent or low-budget sector....? THIS is the question that we should seriously be asking....

 

And the fact that the likes of Thandie Newton, Colin Salmon and Chiewtal Ejiofor having to leave these shores for the majority of their careers to get any decent work and respect.... We are NOT good at keeping our talent here, at all.... You cannot possibly argue that it has been far easier for the likes of Hugh Grant, Daniel Craig and Keira Knightley to get on in the UK film industry than it has been for Newton and Ejiofor.....

 

Hugh Grant is largely famous for getting blow jobs off prossies

 

Liz Hurley is largely famous for her t*ts

 

Keira Knightley is largely famous for looking like a famine victim

 

They are media/tabloid darlings so as the tabloids constantly bum them of course they are going to get top roles as they put bums on seats because of all the Sun readers rushing out to see their work so producers will hire them because they are media whores not because of talent

 

In general if someone is black and good enough they will get through to the top,

 

Yeah, well Thandie Newton DID get to the top really... She won a BAFTA, got a Golden Globe nod as well.... Problem is, which I feel I need to repeat, WE LOST HER TO THE BLOODY STATES in order for her to achieve this..... This is happening all too often with our young ethnic talent, they feel that they just cant get the breaks here because the UK industry has a rather nepotistic culture about it, and it's all about who you know or who your family is... The US industry seems more of a Meritocracy....

No, the MOBO awards are just STUPID, not racist.... Because of it being "music of black origin", they got rid of the Jazz award or summat (LOL at that one.....) and don't take at all into account that Hard Rock/Metal music is based primarily on THE BLUES...... :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

So, really, the likes of AC/DC, Kings of Leon, Wolfmother and Alice Cooper should be in with as much of a shout (their music being so blatantly based upon The Blues...) as anyone else....

 

True there lol

 

But like if someone set up MOWO awards (music of white origin) they would likely be arrested and would be branded racists/BNP in the media

Hugh Grant is largely famous for getting blow jobs off prossies

 

Liz Hurley is largely famous for her t*ts

 

Keira Knightley is largely famous for looking like a famine victim

 

They are media/tabloid darlings so as the tabloids constantly bum them of course they are going to get top roles as they put bums on seats because of all the Sun readers rushing out to see their work so producers will hire them because they are media whores not because of talent

 

Well, doesn't that rather prove my point.....? :rolleyes:

 

But like if someone set up MOWO awards (music of white origin) they would likely be arrested and would be branded racists/BNP in the media

 

Music of WHITE origin....? So, that would be Morris Dancing, Classical, Country and Western and Arran Sweater Folkie types then.....? :lol: :lol:

 

Oh yeah, I can see people tuning into that.... :P :lol:

 

Er, no, sorry, I'm afraid it DOES, because you are NOT judging the actor on his competency or his ability. You are judging him on the colour of his skin, that is the very definition of racism... And you continually refuse to take into account either that The Doctor is non-human, alien and shifts forms, so if the producers wanted him to be a bloody computer-generated talking KANGAROO then that would be perfectly acceptable.....

 

utter shyte..... lets make a film of the queen, or winston churchill, or lets use a ficition character... james bond, santa claus, JESUS, .... some roles are/were created for a specific person, a specific sex, a specific type of person.... dr who has ALWAYS been portrayed as a white male... english too (even tennant dropped his accent...lol) and THATS THE NUB OF YOUR PROBLEM, you are an anglophobe, YOU are prejudiced against anything white and english <_< thats why you constantly whine and moan against us.

It has nothing to do with PC, it's about redressing the balance, all too often our talented young black actors are heading off to the States because they just cannot get the breaks or any decent parts in this country... Thandie Newton, a Zimbabwean/British actress has carved most of her career in the US because she gets better opportunities... She's a bloody BAFTA-award winning (for her role in "Crash", which, ironically, is all about racial conflicts in LA) and Golden Globe nominated actress, which is a bit more than can be said for the over-rated, over-exposed likes of Keira fukkin' Knightley and Sienna Miller.....

 

In the past 20 odd years, the US has cultivated an army of incredibly talented Black actors and actresses... Denzel Washington, Morgan Freeman, Eddie Murphy (whom I dont personally like, but can see the appeal for some...), Wesley Snipes, Halle Berry, Whoopi Goldberg, Angela Bassett, Samuel L Jackson, Don Cheadle, etc.... Also, US TV shows have heavily featured black actors and actresses - The Cosby Show, Law and Order, Homicide, The Wire, to name but a few.... Also, black directors such as Spike Lee have flourished...

 

So, the question must be asked, in terms of high profile, just where the hell are OUR Denzels, Morgans, Eddies, Whoopis, Spikes and Halles.....? They simply dont exist at the moment, and I seriously doubt it's because they lack the talent (the award-winning, acclaimed Thandie Newton being a case in point), the press over the years being way too concerned in this country over the likes of Hugh Grant, Liz Hurley (just what the fukk was her contribution to cinema again...? :rolleyes: ) or whether or not Keira bloody Knightley is anorexic, who sodding Sienna Miller is shagging this week, etc.....

 

Patterson Joseph being The Doctor is a bold, progressive step, as bold as Hollywood casting Sidney Poitier as Mr Tibbs (a BLACK COP.... OMG :o :o :o ), and similarly this might lead to a similar opening of the floodgates to brash, precocious, new black talent to be cultivated here (such as Noel Clark for his rather excellent acting/directing role in "Adulthood", and Ashley Walters who has astounded in his roles in films like "Bullet Boy" and "Sugarhouse", but of course, these are LOW BUDGET films innit, which dont get the hype, how surprising :rolleyes: ....), and for them to perhaps be able to STAY here and not feel like they have to bugger off to the US to get decent roles, and us losing them forever..... Losing either Noel Clark or Ashley Walters to the States would be a disaster for contemporary Brit Cinema/TV, these young actors could be our Denzels or Wesleys, but they need to be cultivated.... Patterson Joseph being The Doctor could be the way we keep the talent HERE.....

 

It's just a pity that you and Craig are too fukkin' pig ignorant to appreciate this..... -_-

 

thats got fcukk all to do with dr who!!! what a waste of typing! :lol: i dont disagree with you on most of that! :lol: pratt.

I wasn't complaining about it, I thought he did rather well in the role.. Merely pointing out YOUR double standard, that for you to be such a stickler for "tradition" and "cultural/historical accuracy" to not have a problem with a white, English actor playing an Arabic secret service agent while at the same time having such hostility to a black, English actor playing a bloody time-travelling, alien, form-shifting Timelord is a bit fukkin' curious...... :lol: :lol:

 

Also, if we go by yours and Craig's "amazing" logic then -

 

David Tenant would not be allowed to play Casanova, because he aint Italian

Glenn Close and John Malkovich wouldn't have been able to play French Aristocrats in "Dangerous Liaisons" because they're Americans

Kirsten Dunst wouldn't have been allowed to play Marie Antoinette because she aint French

Johnathan Rhys Meyers would have been prevented from playing Henry VIII in the fantastic "Tudors" because he's Irish

Russell Crowe would have been prevented from playing Maximus in "Gladiator" because he's not Spanish/Roman and similarly Richard Harris would have been prevented from playing Marcus Aurelius in that film because he is not Italian

Marlon Brando would have been prevented from playing Don Corleone because he wasn't from Sicily....

 

Need I go on...? Or do you actually get the fukkin' point.....? It's ACTING DEAR BOY...... :rolleyes:

 

and you pillock, you dont take into account CASTING! .... some people fit the role, are believeable, others arnt.. the best portrayal of any characters are by people who 'look the part', if someone can be made to be believeable then fair do's...

 

and you keep going on about him being a shapeshifting alien... then why tf has he been portrayed as a white man for nearly half a centuary?.. :lol: duh!

 

fek orf.... the whole thing is a pc correct bbc liberal wishy washy do gooder edit to get the ethnic quota.... YOU wake up for once. by all means get more ethnic reprisentaion on tv... no probs, but ffs CREATE the charactors...dont change whats already in place.

and you keep going on about him being a shapeshifting alien... then why tf has he been portrayed as a white man for nearly half a centuary?.. :lol: duh!

 

Simple, in the 60s/70s and most of teh 80s, you simply did not have black actors of any note coming through.... Times have changed, things are not like that anymore, we HAVE black actors of this calibre now... I would say Patterson Jospeph or Chiewtal Ejiofor are certainly the equals in terms of talent as Eccleston or Tenant, therefore, they should get a shout....

 

A different creative team has different ideas and concepts.. And I would suggest the fact that The Doctor has been hovering in and around London (multi-racial, multi-ethnic and multi-cultural) for the past four seasons, and has had close contact with ethnic minorities (ie, Micky and Martha Jones) MAY just trigger something in his genetic make-up for the next transformation..... This is SCIENCE FICTION, the possibilities are endless...... It all depends on how it's scripted (if it even DOES happen), and I have no doubt that given Steve Moffatt's capabilities as a writer, he will make the concept of a Black Doctor convincing.... YOU are just being little fukkin' Nancy Negative..... :P