Look lets make one thing crystal clear. I am not a snob against manufactured Pop music.

 

The likes of Britney Spears; Girls Aloud; The Sugababes; etc have made some of the greatest records of any genre this decade; in the same way that classic pop factories of Motown; Phil Spector; Chinn & Chapman; etc did the same thing in previous decades.

 

What angers me is that one man Simon Cowell has a monster free advert on ITV that lasts up to 5 months at 90 minutes per Saturday night; and at the end of it comes up with usually a very vocally talented singer but then releases some of the lamest lowest commom denominator pap musak one could imagine; when with the freedom he has he could easily find something better & more musically inventive. That is why he & the acts who come out of this show are savaged by a large number of music critics & music fans because of the sheer volume of lazy unoriginal material the winning performer has to sing.

 

I have to say Alexandra's Hallelujah is the first Simon Cowell X-Factor winning single where I have not felt the urge to grab the remote and press the mute button; because unlike all previous X-Factor winning singles it is not a tear your ears off in horror lazy single release.

 

Whilst the winning song from Popstars: The Rivals: Girls Aloud - Sound Of The Underground is a fantastic pop record in anyone's language. So why can't Simon Cowell find someone to write a fantastic record as good as another Maneater; Biology; Push The Button; So What; Toxic; Crazy In Love; etc seeing as it is virtually guaranteed to sell 500,000 copies in a week?

 

im in complete agreement with this post.

That is why I agree with many people that anyone who spends a penny towards inflating Simon Cowell's bank balance is a brain dead Zombie (as satirised in the superb 2008 Channel 4 show written by Charlie Brooker "Dead Set").

 

Gets mobile phone & dials successfully through to vote for Alexandra!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Curse you Simon Cowell! :lol:

:thinking:

 

I guess when we got a Saturdays forum the next easiest target would get it. I can understand the hatred towards Simon Cowell but I don't understand why people can't like Leona or Alexandra? Surely we're not being sheep or zombies, I doubt many people on here liked Leon Jackson and not just because he was male. :rolleyes:

 

All this gospel choir, Soul II Soul, Sinitta stuff is just taken too far imo, why didn't she win when she first entered then? Surely it's natural for the professionally trained contestants to get further than the average person for the obvious reasons that they've been trying for this harder than the rest.

 

As for Simon Cowell passing the opportunity to record 'Halo', I thought the story was that it was planned to be the lead single for Leona's next album but Ryan Tedder sold it to Beyoncé. I'm sorry but sometimes I'm not convinced with some of the stuff you post.

As for Simon Cowell passing the opportunity to record 'Halo', I thought the story was that it was planned to be the lead single for Leona's next album but Ryan Tedder sold it to Beyoncé. I'm sorry but sometimes I'm not convinced with some of the stuff you post.

 

It's nothing to do with Simon at all. He didn't "pass" on Halo. Ryan Tedder had the song ready months back when Leona was no where near ready to record her second album. Obviously Tedder isn't going to wait around when he has a smash hit single on his hands so he gave it to Beyonce. It happens all the time in the music business, the timing simply wasn't right. Leona is going back in the studio with Tedder though for her second album.

:thinking:

 

I guess when we got a Saturdays forum the next easiest target would get it. I can understand the hatred towards Simon Cowell but I don't understand why people can't like Leona or Alexandra? Surely we're not being sheep or zombies, I doubt many people on here liked Leon Jackson and not just because he was male. :rolleyes:

 

because they are glorified karaoke singers and will ultimately add nothing to british popular music.

 

sheep and zombies is a perfect discription for those who get sucked up by the x factor hype and fail to see what is wrong with that circus. :)

As Paul McCartney described Simon Cowell and the impact of his shows on music as "Musical Cancer" (Remember the love of his life Linda died of this terrible disease); and Paul spent £20-30 million of his own money to set up & fund the Liverpool Institute for Performing Acts which has already seen the alumni include a host of Hollyoaks actors; top US video & film director & one hit wonder Liam Lynch; The Wombats; members of The Zutons; Cherry Ghost; Sandi Thom; top dance music producer Jan Burton; TV journalist & presenter Dawn Porter; etc....

 

Hence why he has been fully supportive of Peter Kay's superb TV music reality satirical character Geraldine McQueen (whilst refusing Simon Cowell permission to perform his post Beatles songs on X-Factor) because the World most successful songwriter ever in the history of popular music understands what is real talent (Paul's Favourite Song of 2008 as revealed on BBC2's Late Show is Camille's Money Note :wub:) & what is fast food bad karaoke "car crash TV" exploiting wannabes wanting to become famous whilst making millions & millions of pounds in profits from affectively one 16 week 90 minutes plus free advertising on ITV.

Ooof! :wub:

 

Yes, it's quite obvious that X Factor doesn't produce much in the way of creative talent...as much as I love Leona and Alexandra, their technically brilliant voices will ultimately just be passengers on the backing tracks etc. that are produced. I don't think that they have much in the way of songwriting talent - obviously Leona's been honed and will probably be a good songwriter in a couple of years, but X Factor doesn't seem to find people who already have creative talent, but seems to just find 'passengers' - with Diana an exception to this, except she wasn't quite good enough for an audience too used to voting for the best passenger...

 

Ultimately, I do quite like Alexandra's version of Hallelujah, although it is nowhere near as good as Jeff Buckley's rendition IMO...but do feel that anyone who likes Alexandra's version should do the right thing for the music industry and download it illegally.

It's nothing to do with Simon at all. He didn't "pass" on Halo. Ryan Tedder had the song ready months back when Leona was no where near ready to record her second album. Obviously Tedder isn't going to wait around when he has a smash hit single on his hands so he gave it to Beyonce. It happens all the time in the music business, the timing simply wasn't right. Leona is going back in the studio with Tedder though for her second album.

Yeah, I thought as much. :lol:

 

because they are glorified karaoke singers and will ultimately add nothing to british popular music.

 

sheep and zombies is a perfect discription for those who get sucked up by the x factor hype and fail to see what is wrong with that circus. :)

I don't expect them to add anything, the show isn't meant to find the next Beatles, Kate Bush, Bjork etc. an expreimental act is never going to win something like this. It's hard enough to get people to vote for someone who isn't a 'cute' or 'hot' male (Eoghan, Leon, Shayne Ward etc.) let alone someone that will add something completely new to music.

 

As for karaoke singers, well that's the sort of music I like I guess. My two favourite artists are Beverley Knight and Mariah Carey which are, coincidentally, the two artists I would compare Alexandra and Leona to respectively so I can't help being a 'zombie' to them. -_- At least I can say I've never voted on the X Factor, unlike Simon's biggest hater on here. :)

 

Ultimately, I do quite like Alexandra's version of Hallelujah, although it is nowhere near as good as Jeff Buckley's rendition IMO...but do feel that anyone who likes Alexandra's version should do the right thing for the music industry and download it illegally.

:lol: done.

"but you are looking at it from an x factor karaoke perspective... music at its lowest form... music should be about an artist conveying a story/message through the medium of sound to the listener, and at its best its sung from the heart, composed from a personal experience so when they sing about love/hurt/happiness/whatever its a feeling from their heart. karaoke doesnt do this effectively so rage against manufactured/soulless pop is more then justified."

 

Give me a break. So, you're saying the only way an artist can connect with a song and convey emotion is through writing the track? That's nonsense. Listen, I wouldn't say I'm a massive fan of "pop" but it's so outlandish to see it from this point of view. It's a ridiculous "artsy" way of looking at life. It's like saying a movie cannot possibly be good unless the writer has had some experience of this in their life. And where the hell would actors come into in this perspective? They would be "manufactured actors" as they haven't written the material themselves. The example I provided may not be the best, but this is what I'm trying to get at. Singing is a talent, just like songwriting and being able to play an instrument. I can see how one would prefer your description of an ideal singer/group (that's my whole appeal to Alicia Keys), but it's completely unjustified to call it "X Factor karaoke perspective".

I don't expect them to add anything, the show isn't meant to find the next Beatles, Kate Bush, Bjork etc. an expreimental act is never going to win something like this. It's hard enough to get people to vote for someone who isn't a 'cute' or 'hot' male (Eoghan, Leon, Shayne Ward etc.) let alone someone that will add something completely new to music.

 

As for karaoke singers, well that's the sort of music I like I guess. My two favourite artists are Beverley Knight and Mariah Carey which are, coincidentally, the two artists I would compare Alexandra and Leona to respectively so I can't help being a 'zombie' to them. -_- At least I can say I've never voted on the X Factor, unlike Simon's biggest hater on here. :)

:lol: done.

 

ok... well whilst i dont agree with you on this, i respect your reasoning and cant knock it :)

 

"but you are looking at it from an x factor karaoke perspective... music at its lowest form... music should be about an artist conveying a story/message through the medium of sound to the listener, and at its best its sung from the heart, composed from a personal experience so when they sing about love/hurt/happiness/whatever its a feeling from their heart. karaoke doesnt do this effectively so rage against manufactured/soulless pop is more then justified."

 

Give me a break. So, you're saying the only way an artist can connect with a song and convey emotion is through writing the track? That's nonsense. Listen, I wouldn't say I'm a massive fan of "pop" but it's so outlandish to see it from this point of view. It's a ridiculous "artsy" way of looking at life. It's like saying a movie cannot possibly be good unless the writer has had some experience of this in their life. And where the hell would actors come into in this perspective? They would be "manufactured actors" as they haven't written the material themselves. The example I provided may not be the best, but this is what I'm trying to get at. Singing is a talent, just like songwriting and being able to play an instrument. I can see how one would prefer your description of an ideal singer/group (that's my whole appeal to Alicia Keys), but it's completely unjustified to call it "X Factor karaoke perspective".

Well actually, I think he's going with the opinion that Tolstoy said which placed emphasis on the emotional importance of art, and said that art cannot be true art unless the artist had personal experience of what they were doing; if they did not it was rendered meaningless. Collingwood et al disagree with this view, as do a great deal of people, but it's a view that does have some currency in some quarters...and one that would obviously be diametrically opposed to pretty much all manufactured pop - or at the very least claim it not to be an art form :P

Give me a break. So, you're saying the only way an artist can connect with a song and convey emotion is through writing the track? That's nonsense. Listen, I wouldn't say I'm a massive fan of "pop" but it's so outlandish to see it from this point of view. It's a ridiculous "artsy" way of looking at life. It's like saying a movie cannot possibly be good unless the writer has had some experience of this in their life. And where the hell would actors come into in this perspective? They would be "manufactured actors" as they haven't written the material themselves. The example I provided may not be the best, but this is what I'm trying to get at. Singing is a talent, just like songwriting and being able to play an instrument. I can see how one would prefer your description of an ideal singer/group (that's my whole appeal to Alicia Keys), but it's completely unjustified to call it "X Factor karaoke perspective".

 

it certainly INSNT nonsense.... surely an emotion, a story, an example, a message is purer from the scource then from a second/third/forth/etc hand perspective?... VERY rarely is a cover of a track as good as the original, as covers are only acting the part, singing it karaoke style as opposed as from the heart. those x factor bints DO NOT sing from the heart... they are actresses, karaoke singers, copying someone elses emotion.

 

the best actors DO research their respective roles so as to get some understanding of the situation they are portraying... so thats a non argument.

 

singing may be a talent, although many can learn it, which isnt what a talent is! but without soul then its meaningless karaoke drivel... which is EXACTLY what the x factor provides.... another way of looking at it is like this... IF alex and leona were really that good, why havnt they already been signed up?... if it wasnt for the over hyped, x factor circus, theyd be no where.

 

congratulations to cowell.... he knows how to make money, at the contempt of the audience.

Well actually, I think he's going with the opinion that Tolstoy said which placed emphasis on the emotional importance of art, and said that art cannot be true art unless the artist had personal experience of what they were doing; if they did not it was rendered meaningless. Collingwood et al disagree with this view, as do a great deal of people, but it's a view that does have some currency in some quarters...and one that would obviously be diametrically opposed to pretty much all manufactured pop - or at the very least claim it not to be an art form :P

 

well i wouldnt know about tolstoy, but in essence, yes, thats exactly what i mean, as ive witnessed it in many quarters of music throughout the last 40 + years, closer to the scource = purer the emotion, like 'chinese whispers' if you like...

And where would Jeff Buckley's Hallelujah fit into this songwriting argument?

And where would Jeff Buckley's Hallelujah fit into this songwriting argument?

 

a better cover then alex's.... but its still a c**p song, always was, always will be.... strange that this track from MY past should be vaunted as some kind of classic... IT WASNT, IT ISNT, its rubbish.

a better cover then alex's.... but its still a c**p song, always was, always will be.... strange that this track from MY past should be vaunted as some kind of classic... IT WASNT, IT ISNT, its rubbish.

 

That's a bit subjective. I personally don't have any strong feelings towards the song, but I can at least admit true emotion is evident in his version.

 

The problem with these reality tv show singers is that unless they break away from the show they are never allowed to be original and change in musical direction.

 

Leona will never be able to break away and explore new music, she will always be given the same dreary old ballads with an ocassional lifeless attempt at a uptempo which she cannot pull off unlike Alexandra.

 

Alexandra has more potential to cross genres if she refuses to let Cowell force her straight to Ryan Tedder for Bleeding Love part 2's.

 

The likes of Girls Aloud, Daughtry, Jennifer Hudson, Kelly Clarkson etc have managed to break away from their shows succesfully though i guess it did backfire on Kelly Clarkson

with her last album.

 

Compare that with the likes of David Archuleta, Jordin Sparks, Leona etc which all get one big hit after the winner single then NEVER reach the heights of that success again.

The problem with these reality tv show singers is that unless they break away from the show they are never allowed to be original and change in musical direction.

 

Leona will never be able to break away and explore new music, she will always be given the same dreary old ballads with an ocassional lifeless attempt at a uptempo which she cannot pull off unlike Alexandra.

 

Alexandra has more potential to cross genres if she refuses to let Cowell force her straight to Ryan Tedder for Bleeding Love part 2's.

 

The likes of Girls Aloud, Daughtry, Jennifer Hudson, Kelly Clarkson etc have managed to break away from their shows succesfully though i guess it did backfire on Kelly Clarkson

with her last album.

 

Compare that with the likes of David Archuleta, Jordin Sparks, Leona etc which all get one big hit after the winner single then NEVER reach the heights of that success again.

Leona has pretty much disproved the 'hit after the winning single' theory with Run, and Jordin did far better with No Air than she did with her post winning single Tattoo...

Leona has pretty much disproved the 'hit after the winning single' theory with Run, and Jordin did far better with No Air than she did with her post winning single Tattoo...

Worldwide though i mean generally.

There has been a massive drop in success of each of Leona's singles, especially 'Forgive Me'.

I think its rather likely that she will only be able to sell reasonably well with ballads which people will

eventually tire of bar the UK which has never tired of the likes of Westlife's tripe.

 

Oh i thought 'No Air' has been the first single released and Tattoo was scrapped to 3rd in the end.

 

 

Worldwide though i mean generally.

There has been a massive drop in success of each of Leona's singles, especially 'Forgive Me'.

I think its rather likely that she will only be able to sell reasonably well with ballads which people will

eventually tire of bar the UK which has never tired of the likes of Westlife's tripe.

 

Oh i thought 'No Air' has been the first single released and Tattoo was scrapped to 3rd in the end.

Nope, just over here where Tattoo got shafted :P

 

Forgive Me would've done a lot better had she performed it on X Factor I reckon...it was a perfectly good song, just I reckon most of Leona's fans were more biased towards her ballady material.

Leona has pretty much disproved the 'hit after the winning single' theory with Run, and Jordin did far better with No Air than she did with her post winning single Tattoo...

 

i cant stand her version of 'run'....

 

i did like 'no air' though.

Worldwide though i mean generally.

There has been a massive drop in success of each of Leona's singles, especially 'Forgive Me'.

 

Well they chose the best song to lead with (rightly so) so it's not much of a shock that it has performed the best IMO.

 

The problem with these reality tv show singers is that unless they break away from the show they are never allowed to be original and change in musical direction.

 

Leona will never be able to break away and explore new music, she will always be given the same dreary old ballads with an ocassional lifeless attempt at a uptempo which she cannot pull off unlike Alexandra.

 

Alexandra has more potential to cross genres if she refuses to let Cowell force her straight to Ryan Tedder for Bleeding Love part 2's.

 

The likes of Girls Aloud, Daughtry, Jennifer Hudson, Kelly Clarkson etc have managed to break away from their shows succesfully though i guess it did backfire on Kelly Clarkson

with her last album.

 

Compare that with the likes of David Archuleta, Jordin Sparks, Leona etc which all get one big hit after the winner single then NEVER reach the heights of that success again.

 

You have to remember, Kelly Clarkson didn't really break out the mould until her second album. Girls Aloud also took a while. Leona, Jordin and David Archuleta are all just on their first albums so give them a chance.

Edited December 21, 200816 yr by Ethereal