Thank God for that now that it's offical.

 

Stops all this silly speculation, and now means Benitez can properly plan for the future.

 

I agree, hopefully this means the only Villa in the Liverpool set up next year will be a certain Valencia striker and not (the heavily rumoured if Rafa took over Real Madrid for 2009/10) Martin O'Neill.

I don't think Martin O'Neill would ever come to Liverpool. He hates us. :lol: Well he did at least.

 

As much as i'd like Villa to come, I don't think it's plausible. We can't afford him, although you never know I guess. But the bigger picture at the moment is why did Benitez sign all of a sudden? He's been reluctant to sign for a few months, but now he has. I'm very sure that there's going to be something coming to light with the owners in the coming weeks.

As much as i'd like Villa to come, I don't think it's plausible. We can't afford him, although you never know I guess. But the bigger picture at the moment is why did Benitez sign all of a sudden? He's been reluctant to sign for a few months, but now he has. I'm very sure that there's going to be something coming to light with the owners in the coming weeks.

 

Liverpool's elusive 'Man in the Sand'

Mihir Bose - BBC sports editor | 12:50 GMT, Wednesday, 18 March 2009

 

Buying a football club does not normally involve the person doing the deal being the subject of an extraordinary vetting process, the potential owner being given a fanciful undercover name, and the whole thing ending up in the Royal Courts of Justice.

 

But Rafed Al Khorafi's attempt to buy Liverpool last summer, which came within hours of being concluded, involved all of that and more. I have discovered fascinating details which read like a thriller which Bollywood, let alone Hollywood, might find a shade too implausible.

 

The court case which City firm Seymour Pierce brought against Al Khorafi, a member of the powerful and clan-like Kuwati family, now looks like being settled. Investment bankers Seymour Pierce were responsible for advising the Kuwaiti on his proposed purchase of Liverpool and claimed various fees had not been paid. Khorafi's lawyers have now agreed to pay some of them but are, I understand, asking for more time to come up with the cash.

 

Yet the real colour to this story lies in the lengths Seymour Pierce's Keith Harris, who also doubles as the great wheeler-dealer of English football, had to go to in trying to negotiate the deal. After being vetted prior to his meeting with Al Khorafi, he had to travel to a hotel in Lebanon's Bekaa Valley, where, for a time, he was the only guest.

 

That's because Khorafi, whose long love affair with Liverpool was nurtured in the club's heydays of the 1980s, was very keen the negotiations should remain a closely guarded secret. To help achieve that goal, he was given the moniker 'The Man in the Sand' by Harris, while Liverpool were identified as 'The Target'.

 

The initial Khorafi approach came in February 2008, a time when the world had not yet slipped into recession and numerous buyers were hovering around England's top football clubs. But there was a problem, namely the testy relationship between Liverpool's two American owners, Tom Hicks and George Gillett. They had become the ultimate dysfunctional family, barely on speaking terms. Such was the tension between the two, that in the spring of 2008, Hicks, who had tried to buy out Gillett, demanded the resignation of chief executive Rick Parry only for Gillett to defend him.

 

The Liverpool crest on the gates at Anfield

 

Sometime in March, a meeting between Gillett, Hicks and Harris was arranged in Montreal. Given their relationship, Hicks and Gillett felt they could only meet under the auspices of the commissioner of the National Hockey League, who acted as a sort of referee. Both men own hockey franchises.

 

At this stage, 'The Man in the Sand' had yet to meet either of the Americans. His cover remained intact, helped no doubt by the fact that the media's focus was on the more romantic story of how Dubai Investment Capital, which had nearly bought Liverpool in 2007, was mounting another bid for the club.

 

Khorafi eventually became a human face to Gillett and his son Foster when they met at Harris's Chelsea home. At various stages, Khorafi was accompanied by Ahmad Al Omani, whose card described him as vice chairman and chief executive officer of the Qatar Consulting Company.

 

By then, lawyers for both parties were busy. Gillett supplied the shareholder agreement he had with Hicks as well as the credit agreement in respect of refinancing Liverpool had negotiated in January 2008. Gillett also provided details of salaries and management accounts, while Hicks supplied Liverpool's detailed 10-year financial forecast. Much of this is fairly standard information any buyer would need before committing himself.

 

All this helped Khorafi work out his price. He would pay £300m for the equity with an additional £100m depending on Liverpool's financial performance and make the club debt free - it is worth noting that when Hicks and Gillett bought Liverpool it had debts of £44.8m, but they had grown to £280m.

 

For Hicks and Gillett, the deal would mean a nice profit. They had paid £174.1m for their equity when they bought the Merseyside club in February 2007. It would also mean Gillett and Hicks would be released from their personal guarantees of around £190m.

 

It was critical for Liverpool to do the deal before the summer transfer window closed. By the first week of July, everything was ready. But then, two hours before the deal was due to be signed, Khorafi changed his mind, said he did not want to do a deal until September and walked away. No explanation was forthcoming and after that, it became impossible for Harris to contact Khorafi, eventually forcing him to seek the help of lawyers.

 

The postscript to this is that news of Khorafi's attempts to buy Liverpool finally emerged into the public arena last autumn. It prompted a statement of denial from the Al Khorafi group, although it came not from Rafed but from relative Jassem Al Khorafi, the speaker of the Kuwati parliament, and Jassem's elder brother Nasser, the group's top man. Rafed said nothing and it now looks like the classic non-denial denial.

 

When I rang Rafed Khorafi's lawyers, a spokesman said: "On behalf of our client we are going to decline to comment". When I asked if it would be possible to meet Rafed, I was told "we have tried that", the implication being it was a futile exercise.

 

'The Man in the Sand' had vanished and, but for the court case, would have left no footprints. Liverpool, riding high on the field, still await a buyer off it.

 

But with reliable inside sources telling me Rafa Benitez will definitely sign a new deal before the end of the week, largely on the basis that 'The Man In The Sand' will be back in the summer to finally buy the club of his dreams from an increasingly debt-ridden Gillett and Hicks. This story could yet have more to be told.

Mr. Ferguson has re-opened hostilities with Rafa Benitez by disputing the Liverpool manager's claim that he has spent more on transfers than the Spaniard.

Click here

 

Benitez suggested last week that Ferguson had spent £100million more he had, but the Manchester United boss retaliated by ordering his staff to tot up each manager's spending since the Liverpool boss took over at Anfield five years ago.

 

By United's calculations, Benitez has spent £24million more and Ferguson is expecting him to splash the cash again this summer.

 

Ferguson said: "I was amazed at that one. I got some of the people in the sports technology department to check that out.

 

"He's well ahead of us in spending in the last five years.

 

"He said our spending power is more than theirs but he has spent £24million more than we have.

 

"I think you will see Rafa producing an absolute spending spree, I think that's an absolute certainty now he has signed a new contract.

 

"There's talk about a recession but I don't think there will be one at Liverpool this year.''

 

In terms of net spending -- taking into account income from sales -- the clubs are much the same. Liverpool's net spending over five years on players is £82.5million and United's has been £85.5million. Meanwhile, Chelsea spent £154.8million net on players during that time and Arsenal just £3.4million.

 

Ferguson claimed his philosophy included developing young players as well as signing stars, while Benitez was more focused on bringing in established players.

 

He added: "There's a balance -- we have signed 18 players in the last five years and eight of those have been young players. There's a balance, it's about doing the thing correctly.

 

"We like to try to develop young players and we will always do that. That's the nature of the club.

 

"Other clubs are maybe different and obviously Rafa has a different philosophy of the game from mine.

 

"But that's the great thing about football -- everyone has a different way of doing things.

 

"The most amazing fact was that they have used 60 players in reserves matches and have 50 players in their reserves squad."

 

Ferguson believes United's owners will continue to support any requests for transfer funds that he makes, and that the club must always remained focus on dealing with challenges.

 

"It's always been that if I wanted a player the club would try to find the money and I think that's still the case. They have always delivered in the past,'' said Ferguson.

 

"Whatever the challenge, whether it comes from Chelsea, Liverpool or Arsenal, you have to address it.

 

"It's the same as Chelsea [with Roman Abramovich]. At the time we were saying what's going to happen here, and they were terrific and they got a really good squad of experienced players they could rely on.

 

"We had to address that and work to get back as the number one.''

So it wasn't just last week, we really are fucking shit?

 

We played AWFUL today, worst than last week, Fulham fullly deserved the win and now we have Vidic, Scholes + Rooney suspended. WOOPDEDOO.

So it wasn't just last week, we really are fucking shit?

 

LOL oh dear..

So it wasn't just last week, we really are fucking shit?

 

We played AWFUL today, worst than last week, Fulham fullly deserved the win and now we have Vidic, Scholes + Rooney suspended. WOOPDEDOO.

 

Before the match on Radio 5 Live the football pundits were discussing Alex Ferguson's latest factually incorrect rant towards Liverpool. The third in just over a week.

 

It seems a very good time to play this track written by a famous scouser:

 

 

B)

 

LOL oh dear..

 

OK so maybe i was a TAD STRONG, but looking at us we really are WEAK at this point in time... Now with 3 of our key players suspended, I can't see us bouncing back anytime soon...

OK so maybe i was a TAD STRONG, but looking at us we really are WEAK at this point in time... Now with 3 of our key players suspended, I can't see us bouncing back anytime soon...

 

We play Villa next week. They've won zero from their last seven games. If we don't get the three points against them then it's time to get worried. As it stands we're still four points adrift at the top and Chelsea (second best team in the league) are also losing.

 

The whole "united fans are more obsessed with liverpool than their own team" thing is rather LOL though. Today being just another example of how ironic that phrase actually is..

We play Villa next week. They've won zero from their last seven games. If we don't get the three points against them then it's time to get worried. As it stands we're still four points adrift at the top and Chelsea (second best team in the league) are also losing.

 

The whole "united fans are more obsessed with liverpool than their own team" thing is rather LOL though. Today being just another example of how ironic that phrase actually is..

 

I do think Man Utd are stating to 'lose' it as it were. So far all the big 4 have gone through their bad spells of form, and now it's Man Utd's time. The past 3 games they've been poor, and it's just a case of how long it will take them to get out of the bad spell they're going through. Going for all the 4 trophies is a big ask, and imo it's starting to show it's toll on the Man Utd team.

 

Fergie is just an absolute idiot. I hate the man. I mean, sports technology department? what the flying f*** is all that about? :lol: If he's going to make a dig at Liverpool then he should at least try and make it correct. Of course we've needed to buy senior players, the squad Benitez inherited was the worst squad i've ever seen Liverpool have, and to say that we don't bring in young players is just fucking ignorant from Fergie.

 

I think both Liverpool and Man Utd respectively are obsessed with each other. There's so much hate between them these days it's hard not to, but every time I see Man Utd play, I can always hear some fans sing a song about Liverpool, and I can't say the same about Liverpool singing Man Utd songs at every game...

I do think Man Utd are stating to 'lose' it as it were. So far all the big 4 have gone through their bad spells of form, and now it's Man Utd's time. The past 3 games they've been poor, and it's just a case of how long it will take them to get out of the bad spell they're going through. Going for all the 4 trophies is a big ask, and imo it's starting to show it's toll on the Man Utd team.

 

Fergie is just an absolute idiot. I hate the man. I mean, sports technology department? what the flying f*** is all that about? :lol: If he's going to make a dig at Liverpool then he should at least try and make it correct. Of course we've needed to buy senior players, the squad Benitez inherited was the worst squad i've ever seen Liverpool have, and to say that we don't bring in young players is just fucking ignorant from Fergie.

 

I think both Liverpool and Man Utd respectively are obsessed with each other. There's so much hate between them these days it's hard not to, but every time I see Man Utd play, I can always hear some fans sing a song about Liverpool, and I can't say the same about Liverpool singing Man Utd songs at every game...

 

I would be suprised if I knew any Liverpool fan who didn't despise SAF to be honest. He digs season in season out, has done ever since I can remember, and generally it has a fantastic succession rate. Raf tried it earlier in the season and his team crumbled shortly after. Just shows what a master of mind games Fergie actually is. He riles managers and fans alike. That isn't gonna change anytime soon.

 

In regards to your first point, I'm unsure about United 'losing it' just yet. Our team is defo low on morale right now and having Vid, Scholes and Rooney all suspended will obvs play its part in our forthcoming performances. Aswell Evra's recent tendencies to act like a complete mental case on the field. But looking at the fixture list for United & Liverpool for the remaining 9 fixtures I would be incredibly suprised if Liverpool actually managed to break past the 4 point deficit in place atm. The prem fixture list for both teams is pretty much matched, Liverpool have the disadvantage of a tougher champions league opponent, United have the FA cup and a trip out of the country.

 

I fully agree United and Liverpool fans are just as bad as each other though. I live inbetween the two cities and know just as many people who support Liverpool as do United, the amount of facebook status updates I read post and prior to matches regarding Hillsborough/Munich is frankly harrowing. Similarly Ive been to matches at both Anfield and Old Trafford this season, again the chants heard are by both sets of supports and again are equally as disgusting in content. Yet for some reason all I ever hear is how United are obsessed with LFC when it is without doubt not a one-sided affair. After hearing more than my fair share of banter from the scousers about MUFC today it was once again painfully obvious that Liverpool fans are just as bad, if not worse.

I would be suprised if I knew any Liverpool fan who didn't despise SAF to be honest. He digs season in season out, has done ever since I can remember, and generally it has a fantastic succession rate. Raf tried it earlier in the season and his team crumbled shortly after. Just shows what a master of mind games Fergie actually is. He riles managers and fans alike. That isn't gonna change anytime soon.

 

In regards to your first point, I'm unsure about United 'losing it' just yet. Our team is defo low on morale right now and having Vid, Scholes and Rooney all suspended will obvs play its part in our forthcoming performances. Aswell Evra's recent tendencies to act like a complete mental case on the field. But looking at the fixture list for United & Liverpool for the remaining 9 fixtures I would be incredibly suprised if Liverpool actually managed to break past the 4 point deficit in place atm. The prem fixture list for both teams is pretty much matched, Liverpool have the disadvantage of a tougher champions league opponent, United have the FA cup and a trip out of the country.

 

I fully agree United and Liverpool fans are just as bad as each other though. I live inbetween the two cities and know just as many people who support Liverpool as do United, the amount of facebook status updates I read post and prior to matches regarding Hillsborough/Munich is frankly harrowing. Similarly Ive been to matches at both Anfield and Old Trafford this season, again the chants heard are by both sets of supports and again are equally as disgusting in content. Yet for some reason all I ever hear is how United are obsessed with LFC when it is without doubt not a one-sided affair. After hearing more than my fair share of banter from the scousers about MUFC today it was once again painfully obvious that Liverpool fans are just as bad, if not worse.

 

Yeah Fergie rattles me. I don't even think he's that great a manager to be honest, he's good i'm not doubting that, but he's not really a tactical genius in the sense Hiddink, Benitez, Cappelo and Mourinho can be imo. Rafa's rant was completely right imo, but it was a little out of the blue. It's like this rant. Why did he say this? I have no idea. I'd guess it's because he's worried about Rafa signing a new contract personally. I just think Fergie needs to eat humble pie sometimes, I mean I heard him say AGAIN that Man Utd were the better team against Liverpool last weekend, I mean seriously, just shut up Fergie. And about today, he can have no complaint over the red cards, if anything Ronaldo should have been sent off as well.

 

I still don't think Liverpool will win the title, and Man Utd getting beat today means absolutely nothing if Liverpool don't win tomorrow. But you can't turn form on and off, Man Utd are hitting a bad spell of form at the moment, and at the wrong time of the season. Quite the opposite for Liverpool.

 

The thing with the chants is they're often sung in retaliation. I think they're discusting, but comparing the Hillsbrough and Munich disasters are very differet. On Liverpool forums they often say they don't know why people bother singing the Munich chant as Manchester United fans rarely get wound up by it. Yes it was sad, but it was a long time ago. The majority of the people that sing these chants are 30-something men, and none of those will have will have been alive when it happened, nor will have they experienced losing someone close - quite the opposite about Hillsbrough. i find the chants about Hillsbrough frankly discusting and whether it's from Man Utd, Everton or anyone it's not acceptable out of respect to the dead and those their relatives left behind. It goes so close to Liverpool that two of our players actually had family members die! The Harold Shipman chants that Liverpool sometime sing are far more offensive imo (and on the topic of chants, I always find the Man Utd chant about "winning it 3 times without killing anyone" again, a very offensive chant, which even Man Utd players have sung) proper ironic)

 

Just when Liverpool got beat the other week against Middlesbrough all the Man Utd fans were gloating, just like Liverpool are doing today. I don't know why people get so obsessed with other teams, and it just shows how much hate and bitterness there is in football these days.

FFS why didn't he start Rooney? He's our best player and we need him from the start otherwise he was bound to do something stupid like that :rolleyes: Lets hope that all this doesn't result on Liverpool being the most undeserving champions since Blackburn :( (or maybe us in 2003...)

Yeah Fergie rattles me. I don't even think he's that great a manager to be honest, he's good i'm not doubting that, but he's not really a tactical genius in the sense Hiddink, Benitez, Cappelo and Mourinho can be imo. Rafa's rant was completely right imo, but it was a little out of the blue. It's like this rant. Why did he say this? I have no idea. I'd guess it's because he's worried about Rafa signing a new contract personally. I just think Fergie needs to eat humble pie sometimes, I mean I heard him say AGAIN that Man Utd were the better team against Liverpool last weekend, I mean seriously, just shut up Fergie. And about today, he can have no complaint over the red cards, if anything Ronaldo should have been sent off as well.

 

I still don't think Liverpool will win the title, and Man Utd getting beat today means absolutely nothing if Liverpool don't win tomorrow. But you can't turn form on and off, Man Utd are hitting a bad spell of form at the moment, and at the wrong time of the season. Quite the opposite for Liverpool.

 

The thing with the chants is they're often sung in retaliation. I think they're discusting, but comparing the Hillsbrough and Munich disasters are very differet. On Liverpool forums they often say they don't know why people bother singing the Munich chant as Manchester United fans rarely get wound up by it. Yes it was sad, but it was a long time ago. The majority of the people that sing these chants are 30-something men, and none of those will have will have been alive when it happened, nor will have they experienced losing someone close - quite the opposite about Hillsbrough. i find the chants about Hillsbrough frankly discusting and whether it's from Man Utd, Everton or anyone it's not acceptable out of respect to the dead and those their relatives left behind. It goes so close to Liverpool that two of our players actually had family members die! The Harold Shipman chants that Liverpool sometime sing are far more offensive imo (and on the topic of chants, I always find the Man Utd chant about "winning it 3 times without killing anyone" again, a very offensive chant, which even Man Utd players have sung) proper ironic)

 

Just when Liverpool got beat the other week against Middlesbrough all the Man Utd fans were gloating, just like Liverpool are doing today. I don't know why people get so obsessed with other teams, and it just shows how much hate and bitterness there is in football these days.

 

I disagree.

 

Firstly on the score that SAF is 'good but not great'. I don't know how many exactly, but we got a large percentage of 1-0's during our fantastic run of form over Christmas. They were 1-0 results whereby we dominated the whole game, not just nicking an odd goal at the end of 90s minutes when the opposition tires and lets their guard down. That's real title-winning form. Our lack of goals conceeded also shows we were arguably THE most consistent team in the prem for a large chunk of the season. He's also won more trophies in the history of the English game than any other manager. 24 trophies in 22 years (discounting Community Shield wins) under the SAF reign speak for themselves. He's won manager of the year more times than anyone else in British football. To say he isn't great and then compare him to Benitez or Mourinho... I couldn't possibly disagree any more strongly.

 

Secondly the point about Hillsborough/Munich. Yes Munich was a long time ago but it's still the same principle about disrespecting the dead. Munich, just like Hillsborough, was a disaster that shocked the sporting world. To joke about either of them (or similar/reated incidents) shows a severe lack of respect, taste and (i can only presume) awareness. Just look at the uproar caused on this forum alone by people disrespecting the name of the now deceased Jade Goody. It's deemed socially unacceptable and shouldn't be tolerated whether it be on the streets, in the football terraces, anywhere.

in a nutshell

 

WE WILL BE CHAMPIONS

I disagree.

 

Firstly on the score that SAF is 'good but not great'. I don't know how many exactly, but we got a large percentage of 1-0's during our fantastic run of form over Christmas. They were 1-0 results whereby we dominated the whole game, not just nicking an odd goal at the end of 90s minutes when the opposition tires and lets their guard down. That's real title-winning form. Our lack of goals conceeded also shows we were arguably THE most consistent team in the prem for a large chunk of the season. He's also won more trophies in the history of the English game than any other manager. 24 trophies in 22 years (discounting Community Shield wins) under the SAF reign speak for themselves. He's won manager of the year more times than anyone else in British football. To say he isn't great and then compare him to Benitez or Mourinho... I couldn't possibly disagree any more strongly.

 

Secondly the point about Hillsborough/Munich. Yes Munich was a long time ago but it's still the same principle about disrespecting the dead. Munich, just like Hillsborough, was a disaster that shocked the sporting world. To joke about either of them (or similar/reated incidents) shows a severe lack of respect, taste and (i can only presume) awareness. Just look at the uproar caused on this forum alone by people disrespecting the name of the now deceased Jade Goody. It's deemed socially unacceptable and shouldn't be tolerated whether it be on the streets, in the football terraces, anywhere.

 

Fergie is a good manager but he is not great. Imo you cannot compare him to someone like Bob Paisley who WAS a great manager. If Man Utd win the European Cup this year it will mean Fergie's won it 3 times in 24 years - Paisley did that in 9. I'm sure Fergie wants nothing more to retire knowing that the record books will say he is the best ever manager the Premier League has ever seen but in reality - is he bollocks. Of course he has done very well. Even comparing him to a great Manchester United manager like Sir Matt Busby is silly. Before the Premier League came along, there was an open field of football, pretty much any team could win the league, but now these days only 4 teams can realistically win the English league. Football became a business and not a sport, which is something Manchester United capitalised on very well whilst Liverpool did not. It took Fergie a long, long time to do anything with Man Utd (again, how long did it take for Giggs and co to come through the youth ranks since he was manager, whilst the other day day he was spouting shit).

 

Football chants can be awful, and of course they're always going to be offensive. But like I say, the Harold Shipman chant is far, far more offensive to an ordinary Manchester United fan than a Munich chant.

 

I didn't think i'd be saying this this season, but the title race is most definitely on. Massive incentive for Liverpool now is they can be top of the league before Man Utd next play again.

Fergie is a good manager but he is not great. Imo you cannot compare him to someone like Bob Paisley who WAS a great manager. If Man Utd win the European Cup this year it will mean Fergie's won it 3 times in 24 years - Paisley did that in 9. I'm sure Fergie wants nothing more to retire knowing that the record books will say he is the best ever manager the Premier League has ever seen but in reality - is he bollocks. Of course he has done very well. Even comparing him to a great Manchester United manager like Sir Matt Busby is silly. Before the Premier League came along, there was an open field of football, pretty much any team could win the league, but now these days only 4 teams can realistically win the English league. Football became a business and not a sport, which is something Manchester United capitalised on very well whilst Liverpool did not. It took Fergie a long, long time to do anything with Man Utd (again, how long did it take for Giggs and co to come through the youth ranks since he was manager, whilst the other day day he was spouting shit).

 

Football chants can be awful, and of course they're always going to be offensive. But like I say, the Harold Shipman chant is far, far more offensive to an ordinary Manchester United fan than a Munich chant.

 

I didn't think i'd be saying this this season, but the title race is most definitely on. Massive incentive for Liverpool now is they can be top of the league before Man Utd next play again.

 

Obviously we hold very different grounds for what classes as a great manager. Prior to the arrival of Sir Alex, United hadn't won a top flight title since 1967. He took over during the 86-87 season and finished runner up in the top flight in 87-88. This was with a weakened team on the brink of relegation too. To then turn this team into the juggernaut of success that it has become today, that takes a great manager. Equalling on average more than one trophy a season, that takes a great manager.

 

It may be that Sir Matt Busby was the 'greatest' United manager of all time, but in terms of hard facts and statistics it cannot be argued Sir Alex IS the most successful manager in terms of trophies won with the club. It's also fitting to note at this point Sir Matt Busby was in charge for 24 years (plus an additional 6 months in charge when he returned to the club after his first stint), Sir Alex is currently in his 22nd year. He IS the greatest manager to ever grace the Premier League and for you to say that he isn't, well realistically I can't think who you believe is? Arsene Wenger, in relation to the long-term, is the only one that comes close?

 

Alas it must be said, congratulations to Liverpool on their 5-0 win today. Another solid performance by the team (well for the first half that I watched). Certainly spices up the end to a season which was wrote off 4 weeks ago, especially if Liverpool do manage to take full advantage of playing their next game before United.

Obviously we hold very different grounds for what classes as a great manager. Prior to the arrival of Sir Alex, United hadn't won a top flight title since 1967. He took over during the 86-87 season and finished runner up in the top flight in 87-88. This was with a weakened team on the brink of relegation too. To then turn this team into the juggernaut of success that it has become today, that takes a great manager. Equalling on average more than one trophy a season, that takes a great manager.

 

It may be that Sir Matt Busby was the 'greatest' United manager of all time, but in terms of hard facts and statistics it cannot be argued Sir Alex IS the most successful manager in terms of trophies won with the club. It's also fitting to note at this point Sir Matt Busby was in charge for 24 years (plus an additional 6 months in charge when he returned to the club after his first stint), Sir Alex is currently in his 22nd year. He IS the greatest manager to ever grace the Premier League and for you to say that he isn't, well realistically I can't think who you believe is? Arsene Wenger, in relation to the long-term, is the only one that comes close?

 

Alas it must be said, congratulations to Liverpool on their 5-0 win today. Another solid performance by the team (well for the first half that I watched). Certainly spices up the end to a season which was wrote 4 weeks ago, especially if Liverpool do manage to take full advantage of playing their next game before United.

 

This comes up back to what I find quite ironic about the whole Benitez singing a new contract and what i've seen posted by a lot of people on various forums (not just from Man Utd fans either). They all say Benitez signing a new contract is great news for Man Utd, and I fail to see how. There are so many parallels between the two clubs 19 years ago then either club would want to admit. The team Benitez inherited was fucking abysmal to put it straight, and he inherited a mess of a club. Our youth policy was awful and 5 years later it's still being sorted out (although our current U18 team will produce one or two magnificent players). Over 5 years since Benitez was here only Gerrard (turning Gerrard into the world's best attacking midfielder in the process), Carragher and Hyypia are still there. He's had to start again from scratch, and every season we have got closer and closer to the top, and this season it looks like we might challenge right to the very end.

 

This comes back to Fergie building up Man Utd in the same way Benitez is doing to Liverpool now. Fergie has done very wll, but success doesn't always match to greatness (I mean let's not forget Phil Neville has many league titles! :lol:). With the players Fergie has had he should have won more European Cups imo. I don't think Fergie is great in tactics either. The reason Man Utd are so good is because Man Utd players believe they're going to win, and the opposition don't realistically they are going to win. Once Man Utd get a goal the opposition heads usually drop. Take last week against Liverpool, when he looked liked losing the game he threw on 3 changes to try and change the game, yet it back fired on him massively.

 

At the moment in the Premier League (if we're talking since when the whole system of English football was changed) then you would have to say Fergie has been the best manager. But like I said earlier, the Premier League and Sky changed the face of football. Football is a business and no longer a sport, other managers just don't have the resources to compete with the big boys, so it's a bit of a scewed affair. But in terms of football over the last 100 years, Fergie is barely even fit to clean the likes of Bob Paisley, Sir Matt Busby's and Brian Clough's boots imo.

This comes up back to what I find quite ironic about the whole Benitez singing a new contract and what i've seen posted by a lot of people on various forums (not just from Man Utd fans either). They all say Benitez signing a new contract is great news for Man Utd, and I fail to see how. There are so many parallels between the two clubs 19 years ago then either club would want to admit. The team Benitez inherited was fucking abysmal to put it straight, and he inherited a mess of a club. Our youth policy was awful and 5 years later it's still being sorted out (although our current U18 team will produce one or two magnificent players). Over 5 years since Benitez was here only Gerrard (turning Gerrard into the world's best attacking midfielder in the process), Carragher and Hyypia are still there. He's had to start again from scratch, and every season we have got closer and closer to the top, and this season it looks like we might challenge right to the very end.

 

This comes back to Fergie building up Man Utd in the same way Benitez is doing to Liverpool now. Fergie has done very wll, but success doesn't always match to greatness (I mean let's not forget Phil Neville has many league titles! :lol:). With the players Fergie has had he should have won more European Cups imo. I don't think Fergie is great in tactics either. The reason Man Utd are so good is because Man Utd players believe they're going to win, and the opposition don't realistically they are going to win. Once Man Utd get a goal the opposition heads usually drop. Take last week against Liverpool, when he looked liked losing the game he threw on 3 changes to try and change the game, yet it back fired on him massively.

 

At the moment in the Premier League (if we're talking since when the whole system of English football was changed) then you would have to say Fergie has been the best manager. But like I said earlier, the Premier League and Sky changed the face of football. Football is a business and no longer a sport, other managers just don't have the resources to compete with the big boys, so it's a bit of a scewed affair. But in terms of football over the last 100 years, Fergie is barely even fit to clean the likes of Bob Paisley, Sir Matt Busby's and Brian Clough's boots imo.

 

You can't exactly compare player success to manager success though in fairness. Sure Phil Neville has won many League titles with United (heck he even has a Champions League medal) but he was surrounded by one of the most steady defence back lines United have ever seen, topped off by Peter Schmiechal between the sticks. There's always weak links in teams that will collect the trophies at the end of the season with any successsful winning club. John O'Shea could potentially get a whole host of winners medals come the end of the season. Comparing player success to manager success is definitely a no-go area imo.

 

The point I will emphasise yet again, and the point I've been trying to make throughout, is you don't just win 10 premier league seasons out of a possible 16 on a fluke or because the team believe they can win and the opposition doesn't. I'm not saying smaller opponents aren't intimidated by the large stature of the club worldwide or that confidence doesn't play a big part in every team, but we wouldn't have won so many had it not been for sheer quality in the team topped off by what I believe to be a great manager (we're going round in circles here). To say "The reason Man Utd are so good is because Man Utd players believe they're going to win, and the opposition don't realistically they are going to win. Once Man Utd get a goal the opposition heads usually drop." just doesn't wash with me. You don't go 11 games without conceeding a goal purely on confidence-knocking the opponent.

 

Sure Benitez may be in the same position 20 years down the line, only time will tell. I'll certainly agree with you on the parallels between the two clubs. He's come incredibly far with a club swamped with the likes of Le Tallec, Diao, Baros, Kewell and God knows whoever else he had at the time. Actual stickability between manager and club is something few and far between in English football, Rafa signing a new contract can only be of benefit to the club based on his tenure so far.

This comes up back to what I find quite ironic about the whole Benitez singing a new contract and what i've seen posted by a lot of people on various forums (not just from Man Utd fans either). They all say Benitez signing a new contract is great news for Man Utd, and I fail to see how. There are so many parallels between the two clubs 19 years ago then either club would want to admit. The team Benitez inherited was fucking abysmal to put it straight, and he inherited a mess of a club. Our youth policy was awful and 5 years later it's still being sorted out (although our current U18 team will produce one or two magnificent players). Over 5 years since Benitez was here only Gerrard (turning Gerrard into the world's best attacking midfielder in the process), Carragher and Hyypia are still there. He's had to start again from scratch, and every season we have got closer and closer to the top, and this season it looks like we might challenge right to the very end.

 

This comes back to Fergie building up Man Utd in the same way Benitez is doing to Liverpool now. Fergie has done very wll, but success doesn't always match to greatness (I mean let's not forget Phil Neville has many league titles! :lol:). With the players Fergie has had he should have won more European Cups imo. I don't think Fergie is great in tactics either. The reason Man Utd are so good is because Man Utd players believe they're going to win, and the opposition don't realistically they are going to win. Once Man Utd get a goal the opposition heads usually drop. Take last week against Liverpool, when he looked liked losing the game he threw on 3 changes to try and change the game, yet it back fired on him massively.

 

At the moment in the Premier League (if we're talking since when the whole system of English football was changed) then you would have to say Fergie has been the best manager. But like I said earlier, the Premier League and Sky changed the face of football. Football is a business and no longer a sport, other managers just don't have the resources to compete with the big boys, so it's a bit of a scewed affair. But in terms of football over the last 100 years, Fergie is barely even fit to clean the likes of Bob Paisley, Sir Matt Busby's and Brian Clough's boots imo.

 

The points you make between the parallels between Manchester United then and Liverpool now are very valid. One point you also missed is that Alex Ferguson's early years in charge of the club were at a time when the boardroom was in a state of near civil war and turmoil with numerous rumours regarding whom may or may not buy the club. Whilst one faction of the boardroom had even spoken to Terry Venables to take over as manager if they won the power struggle (which they did not sadly for us Liverpool fans).

 

As for your statement that Sir Alex Ferguson is barely fit to clean the likes of Bob Paisley, Sir Matt Busby's & Brian Clough's boots.... I think you are talking rubbish on a scale to Sir Alex Ferguson's recent claims that Manchester United were the better side when they played Liverpool at Old Trafford & that Liverpool are only the 4th best side in England. :lol:

 

One look at his CV before Manchester United tells you why:

 

Ferguson was manager of St. Mirren from 1974 until 1978, producing a remarkable transformation of a team in the lower half of the old Second Division watched by crowds of just over 1,000, to First Division champions in 1977, discovering talent like Billy Stark, Tony Fitzpatrick, Lex Richardson, Frank McGarvey, Bobby Reid and Peter Weir while playing superb attacking football. The average age of the league winning team was 19 and the captain, Fitzpatrick, was 20.

 

Whilst at manager at Aberdeen he broke the 15 year Celtic/Rangers monopoly on the Scottish Championship; even winning silverware in Europe:

 

Aberdeen (1978–1986)

 

* Scottish Premier Division: 1979-80, 1983-84, 1984-85

* Scottish Cup: 1981–82, 1982–83, 1983–84, 1985–86

* Scottish League Cup: 1985-86

* UEFA Cup Winners' Cup: 1982–83

* UEFA Super Cup: 1983

 

Little wonder Manchester United came after him on the recommendation of (the greatest player who ever played for Manchester United as voted by non Manchester United fans; yet funnily he only finish 4th in the same poll carried out with Manchester United supporters behind the unprofessional George Best; the indisciplined Eric Cantona; and the injury prone Bryan Robson) Sir Bobby Charlton.

 

As he had already rejected offers to manage Arsenal & Tottenham Hotspur.

 

Ironically I have actually met the man and had a brief conversation with him back in 1999. It was at a village pub in Wiltshire during the horse racing season. I have to say I found him to be quite friendly, but I guess having just won the European Cup he could handle talking to a Liverpool supporter. :lol: