one clip proves nothing

 

ive seen them on tv performing live and it was good :P

 

spice girls were crap...lol.. i cant abide mel c's whiney voice and your comparison to the others is a nonsense. mel c is pop and should be able to sing in a melodic way.... lydons voice suited his style of music, as did lennon, dylan and everyone else you cite .... mel c's voice doesnt.

 

however i agreee that 'going down' was good and on that track and the one she did with bryan adams, it fitted. all her other material though was goddamn awful and the lyrics were written by a kid..

 

You are entitled to say that you don't like the Spice Girls. But to say that they are crap ignores the not insignificant fact that the Spice Girls sold over 60 million records worldwide (over 47 million albums & 18.5 million singles). Their debut single Wannabe topped the charts in 31 countries including America at a time when they could not get the Smash Hits front cover because the chief editor wrongly assumed that teenage girls would not get into an all girl group. Whilst their debut album sold in excess of 23 million copies topping the album charts in 24 countries. They sold over 13 million records in America.

 

But most significantly they co-wrote ALL their original material. Whilst four of the members of the group later went on to top the UK singles chart (& the other had to make do with a solo chart peak of #2).

 

However the British media led snobbery against the Spice Girls can best be exemplified by the chart success of Melanie C's First Day Of My Life. This track failed to chart in the UK Top 75 in 2005. Yet went on to sell over 1.8 million copies where it topped the charts in Germany, Spain, Portugal & Switzerland. It went top 3 in Russia, Austria, Czech Republic, Serbia & Croatia; and was a top 40 hit all over the rest of Europe.

 

Lets compare them to the utterly manufactured Girls Aloud. Girls Aloud were formed by a Reality TV talent show FFS. But are only still going today because they have lived off the genius material of Brian Higgins & his songwriting/production team Xenomania featuring the significant talents of the likes of Tim Powell, Matt Gray & lyricist Miranda Cooper. Whom I regard as the best British pop production team since the Pet Shop Boys collaborated with Trevor Horn's Sarn studio production team (Trevor Horn, Stephen Hague, Julian Mendelesohn, Andy Richards, Stephen Lipson & Anne Dudley)

 

Before Girls Aloud existed Brian Higgins was (co)/responsible for these retro (pre-millennium) pop gems:

 

Saint Etienne - He's On The Phone (1995 UK#11)

 

Dannii Minogue - All I Wanna Do (1997 UK#4)

 

Cher - Believe (1998 UK#1 USA#1 & virtually everywhere else #1)

 

Artists that Higgins has since written or produced for include the Sugababes (Round Round, Hole In The Head, In The Middle, Red Dress), Dannii Minogue, Girls Aloud, Sophie Ellis-Bextor, Kylie Minogue (Giving You Up), Alesha Dixon (The Boy Does Nothing), Texas, Rachel Stevens, Bananarama, Saint Etienne, Gabrielle Cilmi (Lessons To Be Learned), Jem, among many others.

 

He has also just finished producing Yes, the forthcoming album by Pet Shop Boys. (Like Neil Tennant I regard Xenomania's Biology as the greatest UK pop single of the 21st century)

 

Crucially in stark contrast to the musical r*t**** that are Waterman & Cowell, he has said that his sometimes wide musical tastes growing up, from punk rock groups like the Buzzcocks and the Sex Pistols, to more electronic-based groups like Depeche Mode and New Order, have informed his distinct musical style as the main producer behind Xenomania. "It's natural", he has said, "for me to look for combinations of both in the music Xenomania creates." "To avoid making tired cliched glorified karaoke records".

 

Remember just one of Girls Aloud singles was not produced by Xenomania.......and the results were painful to all but the deluded or tone deaf:

 

Sugababes vs Girls Aloud - Walk This Way

 

Critically their worldwide record sales are just 10 million despite releasing 20 UK Top 10 singles; 5 studio albums & 1 compiliation Best of as outside of the UK & Ireland they have not had a Top 20 hit anywhere else in the world since Jump (only because it was taken from the movie blockbuster Love Actually). Unlike the internationally much more successful Sugababes (although they too have failed to do anything in America). Hell they have failed to crack the US Top 100 singles or Top 200 albums (even the UK indie pop girl-trio the Pipettes have done both). Whilst the superior UK girl electronic trio Client have had a host of Top 40 hits in Germany, all over Scandinavia & former USSR satellite states Estonia & Latvia yet are disgracefully unloved & ignored by their native UK.

 

Probably because unlike The Spice Girls there is nothing special about Girls Aloud to sell on an international stage. Because most major nations have their own equivalent of Girls Aloud (USA: Damity Kane, Eden's Crush, The Cheetah Girls; Canada: Girlicious, Sugar Jones; Argentina: Bandana; Australia: Bardot; Germany: No Angels, Monrose; France: L5, Diadems; Sweden: Play; China: S.H.E.; Korea: Baby V.O.X, Fin.K.L, S.E.S, Wonder Girls and Girls' Generation; Japan: Speed!, Morning Musume, Hello! Project; etc).

You are entitled to say that you don't like the Spice Girls. But to say that they are crap ignores the not insignificant fact that the Spice Girls sold over 60 million records worldwide (over 47 million albums & 18.5 million singles). Their debut single Wannabe topped the charts in 31 countries including America at a time when they could not get the Smash Hits front cover because the chief editor wrongly assumed that teenage girls would not get into an all girl group. Whilst their debut album sold in excess of 23 million copies topping the album charts in 24 countries. They sold over 13 million records in America.

 

But most significantly they co-wrote ALL their original material. Whilst four of the members of the group later went on to top the UK singles chart (& the other had to make do with a solo chart peak of #2).

 

However the British media led snobbery against the Spice Girls can best be exemplified by the chart success of Melanie C's First Day Of My Life. This track failed to chart in the UK Top 75 in 2005. Yet went on to sell over 1.8 million copies where it topped the charts in Germany, Spain, Portugal & Switzerland. It went top 3 in Russia, Austria, Czech Republic, Serbia & Croatia; and was a top 40 hit all over the rest of Europe.

 

Lets compare them to the utterly manufactured Girls Aloud. Girls Aloud were formed by a Reality TV talent show FFS. But are only still going today because they have lived off the genius material of Brian Higgins & his songwriting/production team Xenomania featuring the significant talents of the likes of Tim Powell, Matt Gray & lyricist Miranda Cooper. Whom I regard as the best British pop production team since the Pet Shop Boys collaborated with Trevor Horn's Sarn studio production team (Trevor Horn, Stephen Hague, Julian Mendelesohn, Andy Richards, Stephen Lipson & Anne Dudley)

 

Before Girls Aloud existed Brian Higgins was (co)/responsible for these retro (pre-millennium) pop gems:

 

Saint Etienne - He's On The Phone (1995 UK#11)

 

Dannii Minogue - All I Wanna Do (1997 UK#4)

 

Cher - Believe (1998 UK#1 USA#1 & virtually everywhere else #1)

 

Artists that Higgins has since written or produced for include the Sugababes (Round Round, Hole In The Head, In The Middle, Red Dress), Dannii Minogue, Girls Aloud, Sophie Ellis-Bextor, Kylie Minogue (Giving You Up), Alesha Dixon (The Boy Does Nothing), Texas, Rachel Stevens, Bananarama, Saint Etienne, Gabrielle Cilmi (Lessons To Be Learned), Jem, among many others.

 

He has also just finished producing Yes, the forthcoming album by Pet Shop Boys. (Like Neil Tennant I regard Xenomania's Biology as the greatest UK pop single of the 21st century)

 

Crucially in stark contrast to the musical r*t**** that are Waterman & Cowell, he has said that his sometimes wide musical tastes growing up, from punk rock groups like the Buzzcocks and the Sex Pistols, to more electronic-based groups like Depeche Mode and New Order, have informed his distinct musical style as the main producer behind Xenomania. "It's natural", he has said, "for me to look for combinations of both in the music Xenomania creates." "To avoid making tired cliched glorified karaoke records".

 

Remember just one of Girls Aloud singles was not produced by Xenomania.......and the results were painful to all but the deluded or tone deaf:

 

Sugababes vs Girls Aloud - Walk This Way

 

Critically their worldwide record sales are just 10 million despite releasing 20 UK Top 10 singles; 5 studio albums & 1 compiliation Best of as outside of the UK & Ireland they have not had a Top 20 hit anywhere else in the world since Jump (only because it was taken from the movie blockbuster Love Actually). Unlike the internationally much more successful Sugababes (although they too have failed to do anything in America). Hell they have failed to crack the US Top 100 singles or Top 200 albums (even the UK indie pop girl-trio the Pipettes have done both). Whilst the superior UK girl electronic trio Client have had a host of Top 40 hits in Germany, all over Scandinavia & former USSR satellite states Estonia & Latvia yet are disgracefully unloved & ignored by their native UK.

 

Probably because unlike The Spice Girls there is nothing special about Girls Aloud to sell on an international stage. Because most major nations have their own equivalent of Girls Aloud (USA: Damity Kane, Eden's Crush, The Cheetah Girls; Canada: Girlicious, Sugar Jones; Argentina: Bandana; Australia: Bardot; Germany: No Angels, Monrose; France: L5, Diadems; Sweden: Play; China: S.H.E.; Korea: Baby V.O.X, Fin.K.L, S.E.S, Wonder Girls and Girls' Generation; Japan: Speed!, Morning Musume, Hello! Project; etc).

 

Yes, you can't argue with statistics, but I don't think anyone has made the asusmption that Girls Aloud could make it on their own. The Spice Girls were marketed as five unique individuals and this was invaluable when coming to forge pop careers and Girls Aloud are effectively 5 glossy maniquins. The difference however is the tunes! Yes, without the relentless production wheel of

Xenomania, these girls would be useless but I think their crossover appeal in the UK is far greater than Spice Girls was back in the 90s. Rock and indie kids even surrender to Girls Aloud!

Yes, you can't argue with statistics, but I don't think anyone has made the asusmption that Girls Aloud could make it on their own. The Spice Girls were marketed as five unique individuals and this was invaluable when coming to forge pop careers and Girls Aloud are effectively 5 glossy maniquins. The difference however is the tunes! Yes, without the relentless production wheel of

Xenomania, these girls would be useless but I think their crossover appeal in the UK is far greater than Spice Girls was back in the 90s. Rock and indie kids even surrender to Girls Aloud!

 

Yes, but Rock & Indie kids loved the Pet Shop Boys back in the late 1980s for similar reasons. Hence few Smiths & New Order fans objected to the Electronic supergroup around 1990.

 

I'm just utterly irritated by "oh my god Cheryl's amazing" "Hasn't Sarah got a great voice" etc ... the bum worshipping of this act when that it total Gerard Ratners. To say they are superior talents to the Spice Girls, when the Spice Girls were a lot more involved in their own image, marketing, visuals, songwriting & musical output and were so vastly more successful on an international scale that it is a joke the way the British media dismisses them yet worships Girls Aloud today. When it is clear that they are just puppets for the mighty talents of the people behind Xenomania.

 

Especially the way Cheryl Cole has been mouthing off recently saying that Girls Aloud are the greatest girl group of all time. The Spice Girls were never that arrogant. They always cited the influence of Bananarama & TLC on their output.

 

The bottom line is that Xenomania are the reason Girls Aloud are popular today not Girls Aloud. Brian Higgins has been far more responsible for their success than Cheryl Cole. But how many Girls Aloud fans would acknowledge that? Answer: Very few .... and that really annoys me.

I'm sorry I just didn't think they were very good at the time. They were I suppose a prelude to the Spice Girls ... but is that saying much? Time has done little to change my opinion of them.

 

But I did like the cover of 'It Ain't What You Do' they did with Fun Boy Three .... but then again ... it was Fun Boy Three that made it!

 

Norma

The bottom line is that Xenomania are the reason Girls Aloud are popular today not Girls Aloud. Brian Higgins has been far more responsible for their success than Cheryl Cole. But how many Girls Aloud fans would acknowledge that? Answer: Very few .... and that really annoys me.

 

but you could equally argue that simon fuller was the driving force behind the spice girls, not the spice girls themselves who i view as a very successful marketing package. also im very dubious about claims of artists helping create tracks.... i dont believe they did much!

 

i know girls aloud are a manufactured package, and i prefer that package to the spice girls package, ok the spiceys sold more, but times were different in 96, maybe if girls aloud were there in 96 THEY would have gone on to be as big... the spiceys solo material has been pretty dire, only making the charts on the back of their fame, id suggest that amy studt created better material but wasnt famous enough to hit the charts that high.

but you could equally argue that simon fuller was the driving force behind the spice girls, not the spice girls themselves who i view as a very successful marketing package. also im very dubious about claims of artists helping create tracks.... i dont believe they did much!

 

Actually, I think Rich has a point about the Spicies... There was no one quicker than I to utterly detest them at the time and write them off in the terms you have, but then I actually met up with someone (through a friend) who used to work with them in their management, and what he told me left me having a bit more respect for them, particularly Mel C... They had a considerably greater input to their music, image and way of doing things than you think mate, they were actually pretty sharp operators.... Still not keen on the music, but at least I can have respect for them, they were certainly not the puppets some made them out to be....

 

With the likes of GA and Saturdays though, I remain totally unconvinced... They are 100% manufactured IMO, and as Rich has said, I dont believe for a minute that they could stand on their own two feet, none of them will have a solo career even to even bother about, unlike Mel C who at least can sell records off her own back, whether you like the material or not.... Girls Aloud's arrogant supposition that they are the "biggest girl group ever" is just so much horsesh!t as well.... Yeah Cheryl, if you're such hot sh!t love, how come GA cant do a damn thing in Europe/Eastern Europe, US or S E Asia, quite UNLIKE the Spicies who went supernova in those territories....? Sorry, but even the likes of Client are selling far more records in Europe, and they can barely even sell a record here in UK.... And, overall, I would say the likes of tATu are selling more records than GA....

 

I think the Spice Girls were utterly vile.

 

They spouted off ad nauseum about 'Girl Power'...whilst an all-male management team constructed their every move.

 

They failed to make a string of memorable pop singles a la Bananarama...and they didn't have the looks of Girls Aloud.

 

And let's not ever, ever equate greatness with record sales - however colossal. The general public seem to take stupid pills before entering record shops - I should know, I worked in one long enough.... and in general, Joe Public really are sad old sheep when it comes to music - which hasn't changed a jot in the years since I stopped working in a shop.... testament to this is the mortifying spectacle of Leon Jackson etc having chart hits simply because they won a 'talent' show. Which is judged by a dopey northern WAG (who seemed to be half-asleep throughout the last series), a tone-deaf club-footed 'artist' who hasn't sold a record in aeons, the noxious dwarf behind Westlife and the idiot who gave us Robson and Jerome (and who thinks Bowie is, ahem, 'over-rated' :o :rolleyes: ).

i guess i just dont like mel c's voice, and many didnt like kate bush's, lydons, lennons, etc etc etc... however mel c's lyrics were amongst the worst ever committed to the music sheet.. unlike bush, lydon, lennon et al.

 

I don't think most of Mel C's lyrics are *that* bad (probably about average I'd say), although saying that one of her older singles did contain the line "I couldn't live without my phone, but you don't even have a home". :blink:

a dopey northern WAG

 

Eeeesh no need for the 'northern' prefix. I'm glad to learn in 2009 that citizens north of Watford are still seen in such a way. But let's not turn this topic into a North vs South subject, this has sidetracked enough already!

 

 

I think the Spice Girls were utterly vile.

 

They spouted off ad nauseum about 'Girl Power'...whilst an all-male management team constructed their every move.

 

They failed to make a string of memorable pop singles a la Bananarama...and they didn't have the looks of Girls Aloud.

 

And let's not ever, ever equate greatness with record sales - however colossal. The general public seem to take stupid pills before entering record shops - I should know, I worked in one long enough.... and in general, Joe Public really are sad old sheep when it comes to music - which hasn't changed a jot in the years since I stopped working in a shop.... testament to this is the mortifying spectacle of Leon Jackson etc having chart hits simply because they won a 'talent' show. Which is judged by a dopey northern WAG (who seemed to be half-asleep throughout the last series), a tone-deaf club-footed 'artist' who hasn't sold a record in aeons, the noxious dwarf behind Westlife and the idiot who gave us Robson and Jerome (and who thinks Bowie is, ahem, 'over-rated' :o :rolleyes: ).

 

 

SPOT ON RUSS!

 

i dont buy it scott, the spice girls were a total product whether or not they imputted their 'image', that aint hard for a bunch of girls to do is it! besides i stand by my notion that the spice girls harvested a time and place.... it was always going to happen, it could have been girls aloud.

 

but ultimately, its what records they make that matters, and whether or not they sound good. ok, you know how anti manufactured i am... but manufactured acts exist (you could argue that many acts from the past were proto-manufactured.... elvis? sinatra? cliff, tom jones, engelbert never wrote a note or lyric? even the beatles were told what to wear in the early days!) but imho as long as the product is pleasant then we have to overlook it. its only pop and not some genre defining, culture shifting, piece of work. on the whole i prefer girls aloud over the spice girls and the banana bints anyday, hell i even have succumbed to 'issues', it pretty good and i reckon would be ace live.

. its only pop and not some genre defining, culture shifting, piece of work.

 

Well, try telling that to Cheryl gobsh"te Cole then mate, she seems to believe GA to be the most important girl band in the history of music.... Ever.... :rolleyes: ROFLMAO... It's not only hubris, it's totally unrealistic and she's made to look foolish by the fact that the Spicies, The Supremes, Nanas (who did manage to score top 10 hits in the US and Europe) and All Saints, etc did business all over, whereas GA and the Shats can barely sell a record outside of the UK (it's taken the Shats about 5 months to sell 100,000 albums whereas in the same time period Metallica sold over 4 and a half million, what a fukkin' disaster of Scooch proportions :rolleyes: ).... People in the US, Europe, S E Asia, etc are all scratching their heads saying "err, Cheryl/Frankie who.....?"

 

I know who I prefer when it comes to girl bands, the ones who had creative input and who tended not to compromise.... So, that would be the Nanas and All Saints, which was Pop, but Pop with a bit of balls..... AS did some great records back in the day, and did things their way, the comeback was a huge miscalculation, once you lose something you can never really get it back imo....

 

"Issues" is PISH mate..... You really do yourself no credit at all by bumming this bland, non-tune, god, first "Saturday Night" now this rubbish..... :rolleyes: Yes, pretty twittering and all, but come on, it's cheesy CR@P as a tune.... As Rich says, they'd may as well be singing a shopping list or the phone directory.....

as long as the product is pleasant then we have to overlook it.

 

Sorry mate, but I dont think that I can.... It's just not in my nature to overlook something that is so profoundly offensive to me such as the sterilization of modern music by a bunch of fukkin' leeches and maggots like Cowell and Walsh who clearly dont care about the form and only seek to make money out of it.... GA and the Shats are clearly part of that process, so, for me, it's not something I can easily overlook..... If that makes me a snob, well, I'm proud to be one, because at the end of the day, I'm more about the artists than the suits....

 

They spouted off ad nauseum about 'Girl Power'...whilst an all-male management team constructed their every move.

 

Yeah, I have to admit I continue to find that whole thing amusing, especially considering that the whole "girl power" thing has its origins with the likes of Sonic Youth/Kim Gordon, Courteney Love, Kathleen Hanna/Bikini Kill, Huggy Bear, Babes In Toyland, and refers to the time when "alternative" music really was alternative and not pre-packaged cack like My Chemical Romance and Fall Out Boy.... :rolleyes:

 

"Girl Power" had slightly more cred when it was coming from the alternative source than from a UK girl group.... Heck, even Shampoo had more legitimacy in using that phrase.....

 

All in all though, I would say that Mel C has made a pretty decent fist of things, everything considered - Geri Halliwell and Emma Bunton's solo stuff was utterly disastrous, and did Victoria actually do anything other than marry a footballer.....? Rich has a point, Mel's biggest "crime" was to not play the game the way UK media wanted her to.... But, put it this way, why should she even give a sh!t about Britain, like Client, she's selling loads of records in continental Europe, unlike GA and the Shats (who can barely make the sales of an average Indie haircut band, well, that was 400 grand well spent)..... :lol:

Sorry mate, but I dont think that I can.... It's just not in my nature to overlook something that is so profoundly offensive to me such as the sterilization of modern music by a bunch of fukkin' leeches and maggots like Cowell and Walsh who clearly dont care about the form and only seek to make money out of it.... GA and the Shats are clearly part of that process, so, for me, it's not something I can easily overlook..... If that makes me a snob, well, I'm proud to be one, because at the end of the day, I'm more about the artists than the suits....

 

so you expect EVERY kid to have the same taste as YOU! :lol: c'mon! there is a place in everyones collection for brain dead, 3 minute no-brainers ...

 

theres NO difference between ga/sats/saints/spiceys/bananabints/b witched etc etc etc ALL of those girl acts are in it for one thing and one thing only...... money, period, end of. NONE of them are 'artistes' even those who gob off abit or are difficult to manage.... hell the nanas are as GUILTY (lol) as fcuk of courting the public for their money, stooping to watertwat when their own ideas were drying up, courting the pink pound... fair play, not a problem until you hold them up as some sort of 'special case' whilst being critical of others for doing exactly the same thing!

 

being a snob is NOTHING to be proud of.... <_<

fair play, not a problem until you hold them up as some sort of 'special case' whilst being critical of others for doing exactly the same thing!

 

And, er, I did actually criticise the Nanas for their Waterman years in my original post, so dont fukkin' try and make out that I didn't......

 

The Nanas in their early years, WITH Siobhan Fahey is when they were at their best, which is what I've consistently said.... When she left, something just died in the band... They sure didn't last for much longer without her did they.....?

 

And you can still make money, be a mainstream act AND do something which has a bit of a spark about it, with a bit of creativity and individuality, which is what the earlies Nanas and All Saints did, so I do believe they are special cases mate, and they were a cut above the rest of the undistinguished, generic herd, as were Madonna, Michael Jackson, The Stones and The Beatles, ALL were special cases who rose above the rest because they had that thing called the "x-factor", which, ironically, the likes of Cowell and Walsh wouldn't know if it hit them in the bollocks twice with a blood-stained, spiked mace because all they produce is generic, bland cr@p which has no guts.... :rolleyes:

 

Also, this new girl, Lady Ga Ga that everyone is raving on about... Well, you know what, I've sat down and listened to her album, and, she actually has it too, HUGE potential there, sharp as a fukkin' razor, gutsy, sassy, with a wicked sense of humour and a pretty formidable talent, slightly arrogant, yes, but then, so was the young Madonna.....

 

So, sorry mate, you are completely wrong, you do get "special cases" sometimes, even IN an apparently musically worthless genre such as mainstream pop.... Occasionally, a bit of cream does rise to the surface.... Look at what Depeche Mode became.... Starting out as a pretty undisginguished early '80s synthpop act, 25 years later, widely regarded as one of the pioneers of Dance/Electronic Music, one of the first acts to see the potential in remixes and 'club' mixes, often recording totally different versions of their songs for 12" EPs to be played in clubs, they were doing this before "Blue Monday", over 100 million album sales, huge, arena tours, yep, they made a sh"tload of cash, but they made bloody good music as well, not everyone who's a good artist or musician is a pauper mate..... :P

And, er, I did actually criticise the Nanas for their Waterman years in my original post, so dont fukkin' try and make out that I didn't......

 

The Nanas in their early years, WITH Siobhan Fahey is when they were at their best, which is what I've consistently said.... When she left, something just died in the band... They sure didn't last for much longer without her did they.....?

 

fahey left several years after they used watertwat... so theres a contradiction there :P

 

nahhhhh.... i dont dig it m8... the facts are that i prefer the girls aloud product to the spicies/all saints or the nanas . i dont regard ga as that much inferior music wise to 'ballsy' acts... which is what they all are, acts. and tbh i regard ga much more ballsy then you give them credit for!

 

and tbh i regard ga much more ballsy then you give them credit for!

 

It's aint their music though mate, it's not coming from them, the Nanas pretty much wrote most of their stuff, and Lady GaGa writes her own stuff as well, so I give them credit where I dont for GA or Shats... GA dont write their own material, so I just dont buy it that they're this "ballsy" act themselves, they're being told what to do... I'd give them more credit if they wrote their own stuff, even if it was just lyrics.... GA are really just actors saying someone else's lines, and while that flies in films and plays (because those are vastly more collaborative mediums), it doesn't really in music... Music should really come from the heart, passions and obsessions of the individual IMO, not from a bunch of greedy corporate whores more concerned with their bank balance than with doing good music....

 

And I know the likes of Alice Cooper and Marilyn Manson are just creations/roles/acts as well (MM and Alice are creations of Brian Warner and Vincent Furnier respectively), but those were THEIR creations, not some Cowell or Walsh type telling them what to do, they weren't themselves "manufactured".....

It's aint their music though mate, it's not coming from them, the Nanas pretty much wrote most of their stuff, and Lady GaGa writes her own stuff as well, so I give them credit where I dont for GA or Shats... GA dont write their own material, so I just dont buy it that they're this "ballsy" act themselves, they're being told what to do... I'd give them more credit if they wrote their own stuff, even if it was just lyrics.... GA are really just actors saying someone else's lines, and while that flies in films and plays (because those are vastly more collaborative mediums), it doesn't really in music... Music should really come from the heart, passions and obsessions of the individual IMO, not from a bunch of greedy corporate whores more concerned with their bank balance than with doing good music....

 

And I know the likes of Alice Cooper and Marilyn Manson are just creations/roles/acts as well (MM and Alice are creations of Brian Warner and Vincent Furnier respectively), but those were THEIR creations, not some Cowell or Walsh type telling them what to do, they weren't themselves "manufactured".....

 

...but most of the 'greats' of all time in music have also not contributed anything to their material... elvis? sinatra? cliff richard? tom jones? .... now whilst i dont like them much, they are regarded as some of the greatest ever artists that have ever released records, and are little more then karaoke singers too. nahhhh i much prefer the heavier pop edge to g/a then the lightweight camp bananabints.

 

if you want a 'ballsy' female in pop, try suzi quatro..... she pisses all over the nanas, spiceys et al.

...but most of the 'greats' of all time in music have also not contributed anything to their material... elvis? sinatra? cliff richard? tom jones? .... now whilst i dont like them much, they are regarded as some of the greatest ever artists that have ever released records, and are little more then karaoke singers too. nahhhh i much prefer the heavier pop edge to g/a then the lightweight camp bananabints.

 

if you want a 'ballsy' female in pop, try suzi quatro..... she pisses all over the nanas, spiceys et al.

 

Those are hardly great examples mate.... Can't stand any of 'em tbh..... :lol: The Beatles came along and just totally short-circuited Elvis and Sinatra, Elvis played out his last days as a cabaret joke in Vegas largely thanks to The Beatles, The Stones, The Who, the Hippie movement and all that followed, etc, Sinatra, fared not really much better.... As for Cliff and Tom, come on, they NEVER really had credibility, Tom Jones, a hoary old crooner, not even as good as the likes of Sinatra or Tony Bennett, only good for a bit of comedy relief on a Sunday afternoon at Glasto when everyone is hungover or spaced out on the ecstacy, magic mushy or acid comedown :lol: ; Cliff, well, unless you're a middle-aged housewife, he wont mean much to you.... :lol:

 

Those are hardly great examples mate.... Can't stand any of 'em tbh..... :lol: The Beatles came along and just totally short-circuited Elvis and Sinatra, Elvis played out his last days as a cabaret joke in Vegas largely thanks to The Beatles, The Stones, The Who, the Hippie movement and all that followed, etc, Sinatra, fared not really much better.... As for Cliff and Tom, come on, they NEVER really had credibility, Tom Jones, a hoary old crooner, not even as good as the likes of Sinatra or Tony Bennett, only good for a bit of comedy relief on a Sunday afternoon at Glasto when everyone is hungover or spaced out on the ecstacy, magic mushy or acid comedown :lol: ; Cliff, well, unless you're a middle-aged housewife, he wont mean much to you.... :lol:

 

but the point is that no one cared about them not contributing to the music... and whether or not you like them, they are/were some of the biggest and most influencial artists in music ever.