...seeing photos of Jacko's err... 'children'..... the blonde one... he's a mini Macauley Culkin!!!! I hope that if there's a custody battle, the truth will out on 'his' kids... because I don't believe for a minute any one of the three is his, not even a turkey baster job.....

 

100% in agreement Russ.... I was looking at them and just thinking..."WTF"??? They look nothing like him, well, I should actually say they look nothing like the way that Jackson was meant to look before he had all the bloody plastic surgery... I simply do NOT see how the hell anyone can say that these kids even share a tiny fraction of his DNA, absolutely NONE of them are even remotely Afro/American, which they would, regardless of Jacko having Plastic Surgery, his DNA would still be Afro/American, and his kids should look more like Jacko circa Jackson 5, if you see what genetically half white/half black kids actually LOOK like, they look bugger all like Jacko's brood..... If you ask me, we should do a DNA test on the "Macauley Culkin" one and compare it to Macauley Culkins DNA... I wouldn't at all be surprised if Culkin turned out to be the biological father tbh..... Jesus, it's really, really all just sick and twisted if you ask me

 

I do agree with Scotty on the whole Joe Jackson thing.... No way should he get custody of the kids, there's little doubt that he's a scumbag.... I think Jermaine would be a far better guardian tbh... But, tbh, like I say, I am seriously not convinced that any of these kids are biologically Jacko's anyway.... So, if it's proven in a court of law that they dont have any of Jackson's DNA in them, then they should be given back to the biological parents..... This might sound a little ghoulish, but frankly, I'm looking forward to the custody battle, then maybe some truth will out that'll make even the most ardent Jackson fans balk at this man's disgusing, twisted depravity in how he used (and, god I suppose you could even say, "manufactured-to-order") children......

 

Hell, even FOSTER CARE would be better than letting Joe Jackson get his mitts on them kids.....

Stop making crap up! Where on Earth did I say Invincible was better than Thriller? Christ. I've not even got that album, merely the singles. I have no desire to even listen to it. The era was a disaster.

 

And different reviewers wrote the AMG pieces, as you'd know if you'd read them. The reviewer who wrote Dangerous' review did 'only' give it 3.5/5, yes, but he also cited that it was a better album than Bad.

 

Not that that matters. Opinions are subjective, although you've yet to accept that.

 

It's one reviewer though Jark, like you say... A more well-rounded basis to base this sort of thing on would be something like Meta Critic because those ratings are based upon about a dozen or so reviews....

 

I didn't read the reviews, just looked at the star ratings tbh, but even that seems obvious to me what All Music Guide generally thinks of the albums.... And YOU were the one who brought up the bloody All Music Guide in the first place Jark, not me :lol: so dont go on at me for throwing it back at you...... :P

 

 

 

 

 

Whether it "grates you" or not, it doesn't change the facts that a) a psychologist during the child abuse case several years ago said he was to all intents and purposes insane,

 

Absolutely, I have no doubt that this is accurate.... But, as I have constantly repeated (and what many of Jackson's fans dont seem to get frankly) is that saying he's insane is a reason for his behaviour, not an excuse which implies that we overlook it.....

 

Here's a list of other insane/psychogically fukked up people Danny....

 

Jeffrey Dahmer

Ted Bundy

Ed Gein

John Wayne Gacy

Robert Black

Ian Huntley

Peter Sutcliffe

Eileen Wournos

Richard Ramirez

Gary Glitter

 

I suppose we should've just given them a "free pass" on their actions simply because they had "no control" over their urges or behaviour...... How ridiculous..... -_- I'm not saying that we as a society shouldn't try and help or study (in order to try and recognise certain behaviour patterns which help in profiling possible serial killers or sex offenders) damaged people who do fukked up sh!t, but that sure as hell doesn't mean we just let them roam free to just act on their urges or indulge their twisted fantasies.... Sod that.... They need locking up for their own, and society's, good.....

100% in agreement Russ.... I was looking at them and just thinking..."WTF"??? They look nothing like him, well, I should actually say they look nothing like the way that Jackson was meant to look before he had all the bloody plastic surgery... I simply do NOT see how the hell anyone can say that these kids even share a tiny fraction of his DNA, absolutely NONE of them are even remotely Afro/American, which they would, regardless of Jacko having Plastic Surgery, his DNA would still be Afro/American, and his kids should look more like Jacko circa Jackson 5, if you see what genetically half white/half black kids actually LOOK like, they look bugger all like Jacko's brood..... If you ask me, we should do a DNA test on the "Macauley Culkin" one and compare it to Macauley Culkins DNA... I wouldn't at all be surprised if Culkin turned out to be the biological father tbh..... Jesus, it's really, really all just sick and twisted if you ask me

 

now thats one conspiracy theory i can see the validity in! :lol: spot on, there appears to be not 1 afro-carribean gene in them kids, i didnt even realise they were HIS kids at forst!

 

i wonder what excuse will be brought up now? because excuse after excuse has enveloped this character for the last 20 years. turning white was excused as a rare skin disease...:lol: yeah right.. his proto-p**** behaviour was excused because he didnt have a childhood... yeah right, payoffs to chandler were excused because he didnt want the publicity...yeah right, that worked didnt it! :lol:

 

but the bottom line, and this is what really gets me, and theres NO EXCUSE, is the fact that he has repeatedly shared a bed with small children who he wasnt even related too... now forget everything else that might or might not have happened, this is absolutely, totally WRONG. no right thinking person could possibly endorse this behaviour from anyone. turning a blind eye by these fans condones his actions, martin, kelly, you two have kids... why not let craig spend a few nights with them! im sure craig wouldnt do anything wrong... no?... then why tf do you think its ok for this madman to do it?.. oh yeah, hes made some records you like <_< GET REAL, WAKE UP, the minute these actions surfaced he should have been dropped by everyone, no exceptions, no excuses, and this is the very thing ive got against 'fans'.. total delusion, and thats how real life paedos get away with their habits. they are believable as nice people to the parents of their victims.

 

i cant believe that anyone would support his actions, by the man who changed his face to look like an alien clown.

I really wish the small minority who want to badmouth the man and downplay his legacy would do so on MSN. I'm not saying I want a love-in, but we understand he was a messed-up guy, a flawed genius; we just want to remember his music now. Is that SO awful? Christ. No amount of harping on about his alleged paedophilia will do any good at all. Talk about attempting to ruin it for everybody. Please let it go...

 

but he simply WASNT a genius.... just in what way was he that?... at best he co-wrote his best music at worse its all a lie.

 

ive NEVER seen jacko play any instrument, so how the fcuk could he compose anything?... quincey jones was by 'thriller' already a middle aged musician and producer, it was jones who was experimenting with new electronic sounds...not jackson..

 

oh lets forget he might be a p**** then...<_< its alright because its jacko... ffs... lets give him the benefit of the doubt dispite the fact that police examined his genetalia to check wether or not one of his victims COULD describe it... and he did, tell me, in what innocent way could that middle aged man have his dick out in front of a child long enough for the child to be able to discribe it accurately?.. oh it doesnt matter,...its jacko the king of pop... <_<

 

you excusers make me sick :puke2:

 

if people had picked up on these signes earlier then ian huntley would never have got a caretakers job in a school and 2 charming little girls would now be enjoying their lives to the full, being now young women with their whole lives ahead of them. ( im not saying jacko is a killer... )

martin, kelly, you two have kids... why not let craig spend a few nights with them! im sure craig wouldnt do anything wrong... no?... then why tf do you think its ok for this madman to do it?.. oh yeah, hes made some records you like <_<

 

To be fair to Kelz, she's not really under any delusions as to who Jacko was, I was PMing her yesterday, she's just as disgusted by Jacko the MAN as you and me are, trust me..... Mart!n is almost certainly an apologist, as is Crazy Chris and Chrisfish (unbelievably and shockingly, I'd've thought if anyone was gonna put the boot into Jacko the MAN, it would be him, considering his absolutely scathing attacks on Britney and other so-called "pop icons".....). Jark is less so, but seems to defend more than be critical of him....

 

Otherwise, totally correct.... There's no way in hell that any parent would even allow their kids' teacher, doctor or Priest to "innocently" share a bed with their kids, and there would be a more consistent and long-standing familial relationship built upon trust with any one of those, than with some over-pampered, over-indulged, middle-aged Pop Star who's head is in cloud cuckoo-land.... Indeed, I can frankly see that the ONLY reason to "trust" Jacko is either because they liked his records, or they're after some money... So, they're either deluded or pimps..... <_<

 

Jark, I would love nothing more than to just say "hey, yeah, this guy was a great Pop Star, a good dancer and choreographer, made some of the best music videos of all time, loved his music as a kid, but later material considerably less so...", but, you cant just leave it at that mate..... And how are WE spoiling it for any of you lot.... If anyone "spoiled" anything mate, it was Jackson himself by tainting his own legacy with his fukked-up, weird and borderline Paedophilic tendencies...... Me and Rob have "spoiled" nowt, it was already "spoiled" and tainted..... -_- He did it to himself, he made the choices with his life, end of......

if people had picked up on these signes earlier then ian huntley would never have got a caretakers job in a school and 2 charming little girls would now be enjoying their lives to the full, being now young women with their whole lives ahead of them. ( im not saying jacko is a killer... )

 

No, Jackson's not a killer, but the seven year olds he was feeding fukkin' VODKA to could quite easily have gone into toxic poisoning, a seven year old's body is not built to process fukkin' 40% proof alcohol, even a small amount can be sufficient to kill or seriously harm..... And that would be 100% ON HIM as the "responsible adult"......

now thats one conspiracy theory i can see the validity in!

 

I think there's even more validity and certainty in Culkin being the biological daddy of that kid, than Hewitt being Harry's dad...... :lol:

Well Rob you are yet AGAIN wrong in your statements. I for one have seen several clips over the years of MJ playing instruments. I've seen him play Piano on many occasions. He's been able to play since he was young. He also played guitar (he used to take his dads guitar when he wasnt around), drums and Bongo's. And there have been clips of him playing the music to his songs. The one that comes to mind is when he played Billie Jean on the Piano. It was in a documentery. Im sure its on youtube, I'll have a look for it later. On his albums he is credited for various instuments, including string arangments, keyboard anrangments, horn, percussion

 

It is YOUR opinion he was not a genius. NOT a fact. The FACT is he is credited as being the SOLE composer of many of his most famous songs. On the one's where he co-wrote with others, it states that on the credits. On songs such as They Don't Care About Us, Stranger In Moscow - he wrote and produced those by himself, so your agrument is just utterly laughable. You have got it into your head that the whole thing was a marketing ploy. Well as I've said before, why has no-one ever come out and said this over the coure of his 40+ year career? There have been many producers he has pissed off and not even paid before, so surely they would say something? His whole career, he was always marketed more as a performer than a songwriter. There was never a big huge deal made about the fact he wrote his own songs. And if it was a case that he co-wrote all the songs with little input then why the fukk doesnt it say so on the credits like it does so all the songs he actually did co-write? It wasnt as he had a problem giving credit to the other writers when there was others, so your point just simply does not stand. You can claim all you like that he wasn't a genius, that you YOUR opinion. What I object to is how you seem to view your opinion as fact when it is simply NOT, and your claims simply do not have any foundation. The fact remains that most music critics, music historians and people he has worked with view him as a genius songwriter, so you are in the minority with your OPINION and I wish you would just accept that because you are begining to sound like a tired old record on repeat. You are the only person here making such claims. Scott has said in another thread that MJ wrote the songs, you you are alone on this seemingly, and it is because your argument has no basis. The facts are there, and you are just ignoring them.

Jark, I would love nothing more than to just say "hey, yeah, this guy was a great Pop Star, a good dancer and choreographer, made some of the best music videos of all time, loved his music as a kid, but later material considerably less so...", but, you cant just leave it at that mate..... And how are WE spoiling it for any of you lot.... If anyone "spoiled" anything mate, it was Jackson himself by tainting his own legacy with his fukked-up, weird and borderline Paedophilic tendencies...... Me and Rob have "spoiled" nowt, it was already "spoiled" and tainted..... -_- He did it to himself, he made the choices with his life, end of......

Believe me Grimly, I want to understand your reasoning behind this debate. I can see that you feel passionately about making sure everybody knows that the way he behaved during the later years of his life was wrong, but I don't think you realise that everybody is already aware of this - at the end of the day there was Jackson the musician and Jackson the man. All I want is for people to be able to mourn the musician without you lot barging in and tearing the man (in quotations, if you like) apart. Perhaps if anybody had been claiming the man was saintly, your arguments would be justified - but we were/are merely mourning the musician in him. You need to distinguish that.

 

I'm not going to say anything more on the matter though because the cycle is just going to repeat. Rob claims it was all a lie, that Jackson wasn't even a talented musician, you point out he was a p****, nobody actually takes into account anything I or Scotty have said, and it's tiring. Say what you like, I'm done with this one-sided debate.

Well Rob you are yet AGAIN wrong in your statements. I for one have seen several clips over the years of MJ playing instruments. I've seen him play Piano on many occasions. He's been able to play since he was young. He also played guitar (he used to take his dads guitar when he wasnt around), drums and Bongo's. And there have been clips of him playing the music to his songs. The one that comes to mind is when he played Billie Jean on the Piano. It was in a documentery. Im sure its on youtube, I'll have a look for it later. On his albums he is credited for various instuments, including string arangments, keyboard anrangments, horn, percussion

 

It is YOUR opinion he was not a genius. NOT a fact. The FACT is he is credited as being the SOLE composer of many of his most famous songs. On the one's where he co-wrote with others, it states that on the credits. On songs such as They Don't Care About Us, Stranger In Moscow - he wrote and produced those by himself, so your agrument is just utterly laughable. You have got it into your head that the whole thing was a marketing ploy. Well as I've said before, why has no-one ever come out and said this over the coure of his 40+ year career? There have been many producers he has pissed off and not even paid before, so surely they would say something? His whole career, he was always marketed more as a performer than a songwriter. There was never a big huge deal made about the fact he wrote his own songs. And if it was a case that he co-wrote all the songs with little input then why the fukk doesnt it say so on the credits like it does so all the songs he actually did co-write? It wasnt as he had a problem giving credit to the other writers when there was others, so your point just simply does not stand. You can claim all you like that he wasn't a genius, that you YOUR opinion. What I object to is how you seem to view your opinion as fact when it is simply NOT, and your claims simply do not have any foundation. The fact remains that most music critics, music historians and people he has worked with view him as a genius songwriter, so you are in the minority with your OPINION and I wish you would just accept that because you are begining to sound like a tired old record on repeat. You are the only person here making such claims. Scott has said in another thread that MJ wrote the songs, you you are alone on this seemingly, and it is because your argument has no basis. The facts are there, and you are just ignoring them.

 

scotty... i said that ive never SEEN him play anything, if he can play then fair enough...

 

...but its NOT a 'fact' that he was a genius.. i do not regard him as one, by a mile, what makes him a genius as opposed (at best) to be just a successful singer/songwriter?

 

i said i 'strongly suspect' that its a marketing ploy, because most successful pop acts ARE just that... todays world is all about marketing, creating a product, id suggest that the mj product was possibly one of the first overtly produced products... my claims have plenty of foundation, as ive already illustrated. but he ISNT a 'genius songwriter', there are hundereds of better pop songs written, the beatles, abba, bowie, bush, smiths, etc etc etc... words like 'genius' are over used and often incorrectly used.

 

but wether or not he DID do everything his fans claim he did, its nothing THAT special! and is pretty irrelevant when you then go on the look at his personal life.

 

shareing a bed with childeren is completely unacceptable and theres NO excuse for it. it completely erases all his past works and it makes him untennable as a pop star. and for that one point and that one point alone, non of you should be supporting him 1 iota.

Perhaps if anybody had been claiming the man was saintly, your arguments would be justified - but we were/are merely mourning the musician in him. You need to distinguish that.

[/size]

 

They may not be saying that he was "saintly" as such Jark, but there sure are a few apologists out there who seem to want us to whitewash (no pun intended) the facts about his life.... And the Media pretty much IS saying that he was "godlike" and "saintly".... To be fair, I take far more issue with the sheer hypocrisy in the media than I do with anyone on BJ, that's ffor sure, but I wont go easy on the few apologists that are on here who seem to want to wear the blinkers..... It indirectly feeds into a false myth about the MAN, who was tainted, corrupt and far from being the artist he once was in the 80s.....

 

Exactly

 

It is absurd nonsense to justify his weird behaviour on being abused as a child or having a childhood in the spotlight, Ian Huntley was abused and beaten by his stepfather does that mean that his childhood is some justifiable excuse for killing Hollie and Jessica ? :rolleyes: many people have abuse as children but that does not give them some green light to behave unacceptably as adults, every bloody courtroom is full of defence laywyers saying that their client should be pitied and let off because they had a tough childhood :rolleyes: its lily livered bleeding heart claptrap, Jacko's abuse as a child is NOT a justification for dangling babies out of windows, having 8 year old boys in his bed at 40, getting them drunk on vodka and alleged sexual abuse, its really starting to grate me people making excuses of his childhood for his weird and depraved adult life

There's a huge difference between a partial explanation of behaviour and justification. Jackson's relationship with his father may help to explain his subsequent behaviour. It doesn't justify it. The same applies to Ian Huntley. Child sexual abuse is now less of a taboo subject than it used to be. A child who is being abused is more likely to be able to seek - and receive - help and justice. I hope that also means they are less likely to become child abusers themselves.

kelly, you two have kids... why not let craig spend a few nights with them! im sure craig wouldnt do anything wrong... no?... then why tf do you think its ok for this madman to do it?.. oh yeah, hes made some records you like <_<

To reiterate what Scott said (thanks by the way ;) ) i'm under no illusions about Michael Jackson, of COURSE it was weird. Would I let my kids within a billion feet of him? No I wouldn't, to put it simply. A lot of people find it difficult to divorce the man from the music, and as you've already stated in this thread you're one of them. I, however, don't think it's a crime to judge his music based on what it is. Did I think he was the best human that ever lived? No. Do I think the man had issues? Hell yes. Do I enjoy his music? Definitely. It was a soundtrack to my childhood, so I am grateful to him for his music. Please don't be fooled into thinking that i'm some kind of Jackson obsessive, I loved his music and respect his contributions but that's about where I draw the line. Oh and don't badger me about what his contributions actually were in terms of creative control etc. I believe he did make massive contributions, whether you doubt his input or not. Just because there aren't endless videos of him sitting with a guitar doesn't mean he wasn't creative.

 

Obviously on an entirely different scale I can't stand Madonna as a person and many of the things she does deeply offend me, but I can divorce her dire personality and private life from her music, which I do enjoy and respect her massively for.

Fukking hell, just for you Mushy;

 

[skip to 5:00]

 

But I guess you'll be able to find a fault in this video anyway, even though he explains how he wrote Billie Jean, so it's pretty pointless in my posting this.

 

& yes, he does pass off the question when asked about production & composition which I just KNOW you're going to pick up on. But it iss all there, that "beat boxing" he does, that's him composing.

I adore his music, it was a huge part of my childhood, but I actually agree with some of the points Grimly has raised. I find his behaviour towards children totally inappropriate, but I just don't think he was attracted to kids sexually. There was an attraction, but I think it was of youth, as opposed to molestation.

People forget, Michael wasn't just an "Ian Huntley" in the media. He touched so many lives through music before the initial allegations, and I think it's a hard pill to swallow. His story is incredibly sad and as I've said, I don't think he was a child abuser.

The part of this argument I find incredible is Mushymanrob's attack of his music. It's all utter trash. Where are the reports he didn't write the material he was credited for? Jeez, it's such a lame defense. He was an inspiration for a lot of artists, and they would've said this before his death. He moved a lot of people, was a great dancer and had such conviction in his voice. It's just out of this world to discredit him like that. That's where this debate suffers. It goes from opinion, to borderline craziness.

.

Edited June 30, 200916 yr by Scotty

scotty... i said that ive never SEEN him play anything, if he can play then fair enough...

 

...but its NOT a 'fact' that he was a genius.. i do not regard him as one, by a mile, what makes him a genius as opposed (at best) to be just a successful singer/songwriter?

 

i said i 'strongly suspect' that its a marketing ploy, because most successful pop acts ARE just that... todays world is all about marketing, creating a product, id suggest that the mj product was possibly one of the first overtly produced products... my claims have plenty of foundation, as ive already illustrated. but he ISNT a 'genius songwriter', there are hundereds of better pop songs written, the beatles, abba, bowie, bush, smiths, etc etc etc... words like 'genius' are over used and often incorrectly used.

 

but wether or not he DID do everything his fans claim he did, its nothing THAT special! and is pretty irrelevant when you then go on the look at his personal life.

 

shareing a bed with childeren is completely unacceptable and theres NO excuse for it. it completely erases all his past works and it makes him untennable as a pop star. and for that one point and that one point alone, non of you should be supporting him 1 iota.

 

Erm, where exactly did I suggest it was a fact he was a genius? You are the one expressing your opinion as if it is fact. I stated that the majority of critics, other artists in the business decribe him and one and have for many years prior to his death. There are countless reasons as to why he is desribed as being a genius. It is not just the fact that he soley penned (whether you believe it or not) some of the most critically acclaimed and successful pop songs of all time, it is him as a performer on stage. He came up with the dance routines and alot of the ideas for the live shows, which were widely considered as being up there as the best pop shows ever, especially in his prime. His talent to hold his audience in the palm of his hand was unrivaled, and his huge talent as a dancer was also not matched by many, especially in music. Even dance legends such as Michael Flatley have said that he was one of the best dancers to ever live. And there is his videos obviously which were groundbreaking. Had is credited to having a large involvment in coming up with the ideas for his video's. His voice was also one of the finest in pop, especially when he did ballads, his range was quite something. So it is not just for his songwriting talents that so many claim he was a genius, because he was so much more than mearly a songwriter.

 

And as you rightly point out, most Pop stars do not have a large input in their songs. Most have co-writing credits at best. Nearly every artist who is considered a genius songwriter are not from the pop genre in general - he is an exception and a big one at that. And again I will say what I have said many times at this stage, it is YOUR opinion that those artists wrote better songs, it is your opinion he was not a genius etc - huge volumes of people in the music business think he was. Opinions differ, and you not being a fan of his music and perfering others does not mean it is a fact. My opinion is your argument has very little foundation simply because the facts are there for all to see. It input has never been in doubt and you are the only one here doing so. I am getting tired of repeating myself at this stage with regard to the subject.There is no proof to dis-prove what are essentially facts.

 

And with regard to that video Josh posted, there is another video from a doc where he actually plays the music himself. It might have been from the unshown footage version he later released. I am too tired to start looking for it now. Will find it tomorrow.

 

As far as your point that we should not support his music because of his personal life. I don't accept that, because I am not defending him as a person. He did many things that were not right. Ive made my opinion on this clear before, I do not believe he sexually abused children, but the things he did do were not acceptable. I have grown up listening to his music so I am not going to stop just because he turned intro a weirdo. It would be a different matter if he had been found guilty, and the family in the 05 case were not caught up in countless lies.

 

On another note, it is pretty unbelievable how the reports are varrying with regard to his debts and assets etc. Nearly every news report/newspaper have completely different figures, yet they are all stating it as if they are confirmed figures :lol:

 

 

 

[quote name='Mushymanrob' date

Erm, where exactly did I suggest it was a fact he was a genius? You are the one expressing your opinion as if it is fact. I stated that the majority of critics, other artists in the business decribe him and one and have for many years prior to his death. There are countless reasons as to why he is desribed as being a genius. It is not just the fact that he soley penned (whether you believe it or not) some of the most critically acclaimed and successful pop songs of all time, it is him as a performer on stage. He came up with the dance routines and alot of the ideas for the live shows, which were widely considered as being up there as the best pop shows ever, especially in his prime. His talent to hold his audience in the palm of his hand was unrivaled, and his huge talent as a dancer was also not matched by many, especially in music. Even dance legends such as Michael Flatley have said that he was one of the best dancers to ever live. And there is his videos obviously which were groundbreaking. Had is credited to having a large involvment in coming up with the ideas for his video's. His voice was also one of the finest in pop, especially when he did ballads, his range was quite something. So it is not just for his songwriting talents that so many claim he was a genius, because he was so much more than mearly a songwriter.

 

And as you rightly point out, most Pop stars do not have a large input in their songs. Most have co-writing credits at best. Nearly every artist who is considered a genius songwriter are not from the pop genre in general - he is an exception and a big one at that. And again I will say what I have said many times at this stage, it is YOUR opinion that those artists wrote better songs, it is your opinion he was not a genius etc - huge volumes of people in the music business think he was. Opinions differ, and you not being a fan of his music and perfering others does not mean it is a fact. My opinion is your argument has very little foundation simply because the facts are there for all to see. It input has never been in doubt and you are the only one here doing so. I am getting tired of repeating myself at this stage with regard to the subject.There is no proof to dis-prove what are essentially facts.

 

And with regard to that video Josh posted, there is another video from a doc where he actually plays the music himself. It might have been from the unshown footage version he later released. I am too tired to start looking for it now. Will find it tomorrow.

 

As far as your point that we should not support his music because of his personal life. I don't accept that, because I am not defending him as a person. He did many things that were not right. Ive made my opinion on this clear before, I do not believe he sexually abused children, but the things he did do were not acceptable. I have grown up listening to his music so I am not going to stop just because he turned intro a weirdo. It would be a different matter if he had been found guilty, and the family in the 05 case were not caught up in countless lies.

 

On another note, it is pretty unbelievable how the reports are varrying with regard to his debts and assets etc. Nearly every news report/newspaper have completely different figures, yet they are all stating it as if they are confirmed figures :lol:

 

of COURSE its my opinion...:lol: thats why i said it...

 

look.... i dont hate jackos music (70- c86) like i hate watertwats shyte... i fully accept that he is a good performer and had some good pop songs credited to his name.

 

on the basis that he has never come across in any interview as an intelligent musician out to create something new and groundbreaking, the bollox about his skin colour change, the miriad of excuses his management pull out the hat to try to prop up their failing money pot... and the fact he came out of motown, the first and biggest hit factory ever , i doubt his actual input into creating 'his' material. but even if he IS totally and fully responsible , it doesnt make him a 'genius', it makes him a successful composer... would he have been so successful without quincey jones?... no... so i dont accept the tag 'genius' at all. its all part of the hype that surrounds this product.

 

take stevie wonder...now he was perhaps the only motown artist i can think of that DID create his own music... if anyones a songwriting genius its him as he acheived everything dispite being blind.

 

so you think its ok to financially support his revolting habits in his personal life? and if he WAS convicted of child abuse? would you still worship at the alter? no? theres a very thin line youre treading there. ok the court failed to convict him but there are still some serious unanswered questions. again, oj simpson got off too <_<

 

yeah, you cant believe what you read can you, this figure, that figure, ...maybe, just maybe, the persona that the media have portrayed, or has been fed, by the management, is also ...... disingenuous! :lol: ...... it if smacks of hype, then take it with a huge pinch of salt, that is all im doing here.