The Great Train Robber Ronnie Biggs has been refused parole by Justice Secretary Jack Straw.

 

Mr Straw rejected a recommendation by the Parole Board which backed the release of Biggs, 79.

 

Mr Straw said Biggs was "wholly unrepentant" about his actions and had "outrageously courted the media".

 

Biggs' son Michael called for Mr Straw to review the decision. "This is not justice," he said. He said his father was in a "life-threatening" condition.

 

Biggs is in the Norfolk and Norwich University Hospital after breaking his hip in a fall.

 

He was taken from Norwich Prison to hospital after a fall at the weekend.

 

The Parole Board report said the risk Biggs posed was "manageable under the proposed risk management plan and consequently parole is recommended".

 

But the panel added that "in terms of his attitudes and risk areas" there was little evidence, apart from his increased age, to suggest he would not return to his old criminal lifestyle.

 

Giving his reasons for the refusal of parole, Mr Straw said it was "unacceptable" that Biggs had chosen not to obey the law and tried to avoid the consequences of his decision.

 

Mr Straw said Biggs would have been a free man "many years ago" if he had complied with the sentence given to him.

 

He said: "I have informed Mr Ronald Biggs of my decision regarding his parole.

 

"Mr Biggs chose to serve only one year of a 30-year sentence before he took the personal decision to commit another offence and escape from prison, avoiding capture by travelling abroad for 35 years whilst outrageously courting the media.

 

"Had he complied with his sentence, he would have been a free man many years ago.

 

"I am refusing the Parole Board's recommendation for parole. Biggs chose not to obey the law and respect the punishments given to him - the legal system in this country deserves more respect than this.

 

"It was Mr Biggs's own choice to offend and he now appears to want to avoid the consequences of his decision. I do not think this is acceptable.

 

"Mr Biggs is wholly unrepentant and the Parole Board found his propensity to breach trust a very significant factor. He has not undertaken risk-related work and does not regret his offending."

 

Biggs' son Michael said his father presented "no threat to society whatsoever", adding "he cannot walk, he cannot talk, he cannot eat and drink".

 

"This flies in the face of the parole board recommendation. This is not justice," he said.

 

Michael Biggs called Mr Straw's decision "beyond belief" and "vindictive".

 

"My father has been made to serve a long sentence because of his surname."

 

He said he would be visiting his father in hospital on Thursday morning.

 

'Dying months'

 

Juliet Lyon, director of the Prison Reform Trust, said: "It is difficult to see what can be gained, other than tough headlines, by overturning a carefully considered Parole Board decision to grant release and instead condemning a sick, elderly man to spend what seem from reports to be his dying months in prison."

 

Biggs was a member of a 15-strong gang which attacked a mail train in Ledburn, Buckinghamshire, on 8 August 1963.

 

The gang made off with £2.6m in used banknotes in the biggest ever raid on a British train.

 

After being given a 30-year sentence, Biggs escaped from Wandsworth Prison, south London, in a furniture van after spending 15 months in jail.

 

He was on the run for more than 30 years, living in Spain, Australia and Brazil, before returning to the UK voluntarily in 2001.

 

Source: BBC News

Should Biggs be released now, or should he remain behind bars until he dies? Is he a danger to society or are there more dangerous people being released every day, who we should be more concerned about?

I may seem vindictive here ... but I hope he stays in prison until he's dead! The only reason he was willing to come back to the UK was that he'd run out of money in Brazil and couldn't afford to live there and have his freedom to-boot! He's not sorry for what he did ... and lets not forget ... an innocent man lost his life in his 'little adventure'. Like the Krays - Biggs is looked up to for the wrong reasons. If they do let him out ... let him live with his son ... and his son pay for his upkeep. The way that any other old person would be expected to survive. I fear though that one way or the other ... the taxpayer is going to pay for this old bast*rd's upkeep.

 

Norma

Edited July 3, 200916 yr by Norma_Snockers

I may seem vindictive here ... but I hope he stays in prison until he's dead! The only reason he was willing to come back to the UK was that he'd run out of money in Brazil and couldn't afford to live there and have his freedom to-boot! He's not sorry for what he did ... and lets not forget ... an innocent man lost his life in his 'little adventure'. Like the Krays - Biggs is looked up to for the wrong reasons. If they do let him out ... let him live with his son ... and his son pay for his upkeep. The way that any other old person would be expected to survive. I fear though that one way or the other ... the taxpayer is going to pay for this old bast*rd's upkeep.

 

Norma

 

Well the arguement goes we are already paying a fortune for keeping him in prison as his medical bills are horendous. Every time he goes to hospital, which is a lot, there are umpteen prison guards go with him. It might actually be cheaper if he was on the outside. So if it was only down to cost we should release him.

 

Another arguement goes that as prisons are full, if he was released then there would be more room for another more dangerous criminal, who might get tagged instead of being locked up. I am not condoning what he did, but its hardly the worse crime in the last 40 years. There are much worse happening every week in our major cities.

Well the arguement goes we are already paying a fortune for keeping him in prison as his medical bills are horendous. Every time he goes to hospital, which is a lot, there are umpteen prison guards go with him. It might actually be cheaper if he was on the outside. So if it was only down to cost we should release him.

 

Another arguement goes that as prisons are full, if he was released then there would be more room for another more dangerous criminal, who might get tagged instead of being locked up. I am not condoning what he did, but its hardly the worse crime in the last 40 years. There are much worse happening every week in our major cities.

 

Well they won't just lump him into one of those awful homes that people with no means go to. When / if he is released plans have been made for him to go to a really good one with the best medical care that entails - so he probably would end up costing as much in one of those than in prison. If they were going to release him and then just leave him at the front gate to fend for himself - then of course I'd say release him. And to be honest ... it isn't the money factor - its the fact that as far as I'm concerned - he hasn't paid the price. I remember watching him on tv years ago - laughing at the authorities ... and his mates that were in prison. And he certainly had no remorse or even cared for the bloke who died as a result of the bashing around the head he received. If he'd served his time while he was in the best of his years - yes - but as I say - he only came back because Brazil didn't want him once he was skint!

 

Norma

Edited July 4, 200916 yr by Norma_Snockers

But the panel added that "in terms of his attitudes and risk areas" there was little evidence, apart from his increased age, to suggest he would not return to his old criminal lifestyle.

 

I can't stand Biggs and the way he bragged about evading justice all the time while on Copacabana beach but the excuse given was bizarre, the man can't walk talk and needs to be spoonfed I think it highly unlikely he is in any fit state to go back to robbing, I have no sympathy with Biggs rotting in jail but the reason given was bizarre

As far as I'm concerned the only difference between Ronnie Biggs and the likes of Fred Goodwin is that Goodwin's thieving is officially sanctioned..... <_< I think that all things considered, there's far worse than Biggs out there roaming free - rapists, child molestors, and plenty of killers get paroled anyway.... If you ask me, the only reason for this vindictive action against Biggs is because he basically took the p!ss out of the establishment for years, and now the establishment just wants its pound of flesh......

 

It's total hypocrisy anyway - Fukkin' PINOCHET got a 'get out of jail free card', when Spanish authorities wanted him, from Jack fukkin' Straw supposedly because he was "at death's door"..... Yeah, what fukkin' CR@P that turned out to be..... Pinochet's crimes were infinitely worse than Biggs', Pinochet is an unrepentant MASS MURDERER...... :angry:

 

The Establishment just looks out for its own at the end of the day, and fukks up any ordinary bloke who makes them look ridiculous... And Biggs almost certainly made the establishment look ridiculous......

He was sentenced to a minimum of 30 years all he is really doing is still serving that sentence, can't do the time ? don't do the crime

can't do the time ? don't do the crime

 

Tell that to Ernest Saunders then.... They let HIM out with a FAKE illness....... <_< Oh, but of course, Saunders was probably a fukkin' MASON anyway..... -_-

 

Ronnie Biggs is no threat to anyone, frankly, he's dying and IMO, it's totally inhumane of any Govt to let someone as genuinely seriously ill as Biggs die in prison..... The Parole Board made a perfectly sound recommendation, and the Establishment, being spiteful and not liking the fact that Biggs rubbed their noses in their ineptitudes for years, are just vindictively punishing him whereas they probably wouldn't punish someone else who hadn't taken the p!ss out of them....

 

Tell that to Ernest Saunders then.... They let HIM out with a FAKE illness....... <_< Oh, but of course, Saunders was probably a fukkin' MASON anyway..... -_-

 

Ronnie Biggs is no threat to anyone, frankly, he's dying and IMO, it's totally inhumane of any Govt to let someone as genuinely seriously ill as Biggs die in prison..... The Parole Board made a perfectly sound recommendation, and the Establishment, being spiteful and not liking the fact that Biggs rubbed their noses in their ineptitudes for years, are just vindictively punishing him whereas they probably wouldn't punish someone else who hadn't taken the p!ss out of them....

 

Yeah but the "he is ill/dying - let him out" thing sets a dangerous precedent if he is released just like that

 

Myra Hindley was in worse shape than Biggs when she died and there was no question of letting her out on humanitarian grounds, if the likes of Kenny Noye, Michael Sams etc had a series of strokes that left them unable to do anything for themselves should they be released too ? jail isn't just about rehabillitation it is about punishment and Biggs getting a free pass just because he is ill is wrong to me

 

The family of the train driver are serving a life sentence effectively given a widow had to live without her husband and kids were bought up without a father and so on and Biggs has never once showed any remorse for what happened or apologised to the family of the driver etc, let him die in jail I say

Yeah but the "he is ill/dying - let him out" thing sets a dangerous precedent if he is released just like that

 

Myra Hindley was in worse shape than Biggs when she died and there was no question of letting her out on humanitarian grounds, if the likes of Kenny Noye, Michael Sams etc had a series of strokes that left them unable to do anything for themselves should they be released too ? jail isn't just about rehabillitation it is about punishment and Biggs getting a free pass just because he is ill is wrong to me

 

The family of the train driver are serving a life sentence effectively given a widow had to live without her husband and kids were bought up without a father and so on and Biggs has never once showed any remorse for what happened or apologised to the family of the driver etc, let him die in jail I say

 

For a start - Myra Hindley, Micheal Sams were nonces, rapists and child molestors, as opposed to someone who just robbed money off a train, you know, get some perspective mate. And you're just totally re-writing history here - Mills the driver did NOT actually die at the hands of Biggs and co, he died 7 years after the robbery mate, of Leukaemia, how can you actually relate a blow on the head to leukaemia (which is cancer of the blood or bone marrow) is quite beyond me, tbh, how can Biggs be expected to feel remorse for the bloke dying seven years later from an unrelated illness which kills people much healthier than Mills...? And, it wasn't actually Biggs who hit the driver, it was actually someone who was unidentified at the time.... A former police officer claims to have tracked down the man who hit Mills, but couldn't prosecute due to lack of evidence....

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Mills_(train_driver)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Train_Robbery_(1963)

 

Biggs, etc, did NOT cause Jack Mills's death, they certainly didn't murder him in cold blood as you're implying; that is just an outright fukkin' lie told by the establishment and the tabloids.... And Biggs never even assaulted the bloke anyway..... As Biggs said - "all he got was a tap on the head" during the commission of an armed robbery... This has frankly been grossly exaggerated in the media as to equate almost to the Train Robbers actually beating him repeatedly with a lead pipe or something, which is just utterly WRONG..... It was ONE hit which gave the bloke a black eye..... There's little scum out on the streets today which do considerably worse mate..... I almost wish we had villains like Biggs and Co, hell, even The Krays, instead of the gang-rapists who rape young teenage girls as part of "gang initiations", and drug gangs who go around shooting and knifing innocent people.....

I have sympathies for both points of view.

 

I am aware that the parole board felt that Mr Biggs was no longer athreat to society but on balance I lean slightly more to accepting Jack Straw's decision because of the idea of legal precedence and the effect it could have on future trials.

 

If he hadn't escaped he would have been a free man some time ago, because he would have been granted some remission.

 

He chose to go on the run and use his notoriety to spend his most active years living the highlife in a foreign country, from whence he used the UK's media to taunt all of us.

 

What must every single interview with Biggs have done to those who'd suffered from the Great Train Robbery?

 

It was only when he couldn't afford that lifestyle and he needed the welfare state again because of age and ill-health that he came back to the UK.

 

IF his family can't care for him on a basic state pension, then he may as well stay in prison. He should get no more consideration then the average UK pensioner of the same age.

I have sympathies for both points of view.

 

I am aware that the parole board felt that Mr Biggs was no longer athreat to society but on balance I lean slightly more to accepting Jack Straw's decision because of the idea of legal precedence and the effect it could have on future trials.

 

If he hadn't escaped he would have been a free man some time ago, because he would have been granted some remission.

 

He chose to go on the run and use his notoriety to spend his most active years living the highlife in a foreign country, from whence he used the UK's media to taunt all of us.

 

What must every single interview with Biggs have done to those who'd suffered from the Great Train Robbery?

 

It was only when he couldn't afford that lifestyle and he needed the welfare state again because of age and ill-health that he came back to the UK.

 

IF his family can't care for him on a basic state pension, then he may as well stay in prison. He should get no more consideration then the average UK pensioner of the same age.

 

Exactly.

 

Funny how Jack Straw was crucified (rightly IMHO) for allowing the violent offender Jack Tweed out of jail to visit Jade Goody.

 

Hence I find it bizarre how one or two posters here think he should be given special dispensation, that most ordinary old age criminals would not get if they were in the same situation.

 

He chose to go on the run and use his notoriety to spend his most active years living the highlife in a foreign country, from whence he used the UK's media to taunt all of us.

 

He wasn't taunting "all of us", just the Establishment.... And good on him, I say frankly..... 30 years for robbery was a ludicrously heavy sentence anyway, no wonder he escaped, I would.... Today, how many people who commit really, seriously NASTY assaults, rape, and, even murder, are actually being sent down for 30....? Yeah, we'll let scumbags and maggots who do far worse just walk out of prison after about 5 years or so, but someone like Biggs, we'll keep inside until he dies..... Will the scum who killed Baby P, Victoria Climbie or Damilola Taylor stay in prison until they die..? Like fukk they will...... <_< <_<

Exactly.

 

Funny how Jack Straw was crucified (rightly IMHO) for allowing the violent offender Jack Tweed out of jail to visit Jade Goody.

 

Hence I find it bizarre how one or two posters here think he should be given special dispensation, that most ordinary old age criminals would not get if they were in the same situation.

 

It's not the same situation at all... Mills was hit just the once (and not even BY Biggs, which is the whole point, even the investigating officers never thought that the likes of Biggs or Edwards were responsible for the assault..), I believe Jack Tweed repeatedly assaulted a 16 year old with a golf club, and not even for any particular reason..... Besides, Biggs has been in prison since 2001 I believe... Which would be 8 years give or take.... What did Jack Tweed get....? Nothing even close to that.....

 

Totally disproportionate punishments, IMO....

 

Exactly.

 

Funny how Jack Straw was crucified (rightly IMHO) for allowing the violent offender Jack Tweed out of jail to visit Jade Goody.

 

Hence I find it bizarre how one or two posters here think he should be given special dispensation, that most ordinary old age criminals would not get if they were in the same situation.

Tweedy was allowed out (briefly) to visit his dying wife. Not to have allowed him to do so would have punished Jade Goody at least as much as it would have punished him. It doesn't happen very often but this is a decision Jackboot Straw got right.

Funny how Jack Straw was crucified (rightly IMHO) for allowing the violent offender Jack Tweed out of jail to visit Jade Goody.

 

Jack Straw is a stinking, great fukkin' hypocrite who sold out his principles long ago.... How do you square letting Pinochet off the hook for a supposed "illness" then, which was fake anyway....

 

Pinochet - Murdered over 10,000 Chileans and was wanted for the murders of 9 Spanish citizens

Biggs - Robbed a train.....

 

Yeah, right, it's really "punishment fitting crime" innit..... :rolleyes:

 

Tweedy was allowed out (briefly) to visit his dying wife. Not to have allowed him to do so would have punished Jade Goody at least as much as it would have punished him. It doesn't happen very often but this is a decision Jackboot Straw got right.

 

Sorry, but I totally disagree. Apart from anything else, Biggs has spent the last 8 years in prison, so, I would say he's been punished for his crime... How many years will these scum who kidnapped and gang-raped that young girl in East London spend inside do you think mate....? Sorry, but I personally consider that to be a far worse crime than anything Biggs and the Train robbers did..... And I simply do not buy that Biggs somehow "caused" the death of Jack Mills (who died of Leukaemia which has nothing to do with a fukkin' head injury...), which is the reason why people are saying this punishment is justified.... If Mills had died from an aneurysm or a haemmorhage, then yeah, you could argue the toss, but he didn't, and his death was 7 years after the fact anyway.... How on earth can Biggs be expected to feel remorse for someone dying of a type of cancer which kills younger, fitter people than Mills anyway....? And how can he be expected to say sorry for an assault he himself never actually carried out....? Ridiculous.....

 

No, sorry, this is simply cruel and unusual punishment, vindictively being meted out because Biggs made the British Establishment look like tits for years..... Anyway, he's not gonna be free FFS, he's going to a Hospice to die..... Not exactly wandering he streets is it.....?

 

Jack Straw is wrong, and he's a hypocrite.... I seriously hope the EU Court overturns this ridiculously vindictive judgement, because I dont feel that this was actually judged on the merits of the case, merely on the fact of Biggs being Biggs.....

Sorry, but I totally disagree. Apart from anything else, Biggs has spent the last 8 years in prison, so, I would say he's been punished for his crime... How many years will these scum who kidnapped and gang-raped that young girl in East London spend inside do you think mate....? Sorry, but I personally consider that to be a far worse crime than anything Biggs and the Train robbers did..... And I simply do not buy that Biggs somehow "caused" the death of Jack Mills (who died of Leukaemia which has nothing to do with a fukkin' head injury...), which is the reason why people are saying this punishment is justified.... If Mills had died from an aneurysm or a haemmorhage, then yeah, you could argue the toss, but he didn't, and his death was 7 years after the fact anyway....

 

No, sorry, this is simply cruel and unusual punishment, vindictively being meted out because Biggs made the British Establishment look like tits for years..... Anyway, he's not gonna be free FFS, he's going to a Hospice to die..... Not exactly wandering he streets is it.....?

 

Jack Straw is wrong, and he's a hypocrite....

 

Rightly or wrongly Biggs was sentenced at the time to 30 years jail even after serving the little time he did before he escaped and 8 subsequent years in jail it is still nowhere near the 30 years that he was sentenced to, not even close to the 15 years that 50% remission would wipe out, he hasn't served the sentence he was sentenced to whether he is a sick old man is irrelevant I don't think his health should be a factor in any decision, he should serve the sentence he was sentenced for

 

Whether Biggs caused the injuries to the driver or not is irrelevant, a gang burst into a bank and shoot a security guard ALL the gang get the same punishment not just the guy that pulled the trigger and shot the guard, Biggs whether he coshed the driver or not was guilty by association, that Wiki article you showed also stated that Mills "never fully recovered from his injuuries" so even if he died of leukemia he was still badly injured and disabled by the gang

 

The only reason there is any fuss at all abouit this case is because Biggs is a media darling because Sun and Mirror journos used to get plied with free champagne and whores when they went to visit Biggs on Copacabana beach so they champion his cause, any other elderly prisoner not in good health in this country rots in jail so Biggs should not be any different

 

 

 

 

Whether Biggs caused the injuries to the driver or not is irrelevant, a gang burst into a bank and shoot a security guard ALL the gang get the same punishment not just the guy that pulled the trigger and shot the guard, Biggs whether he coshed the driver or not was guilty by association, that Wiki article you showed also stated that Mills "never fully recovered from his injuuries" so even if he died of leukemia he was still badly injured and disabled by the gang

 

He got Tension Headaches.... It's not the same thing as being put into a wheelchair or having a limb chopped off mate... It's HEADACHES..... At worst, probably migraines... I question how much of his life was actually affected by it... I mean, come on, he was probably getting free rounds of drinks for years off that story - "hey, I got beaten up by the Train Robbers"... "Bloody hell mate, wotcher havin'....?" But, in saying that, I wouldn't exactly blame him if he'd milked it for all he could and just lived off the sick for the rest of his life.. I know I'd certainly milk it for as much workers' compo as I could get.....

 

And besides, his death was nothing to do with his relatively minor injuries, which is what YOU imply.... And you're quite wrong to do so.... So, sorry, Mills' death simply cannot be put at Biggs' feet, so, he's nothing to feel remorse for....

 

And I repeat - 30 years for robbery is ridiculously excessive in the first place..... Amazing, a bunch of working class guys rob a couple of million quid off a train and they get sent down for 30 years, Middle-class bankers rob us blind to the tune of BILLIONS, and they get a slight ticking off and a £16 million pension pot..... :rolleyes:

 

This country is FUKKED.....

 

 

any other elderly prisoner not in good health in this country rots in jail so Biggs should not be any different

 

Unless they're a Mason of course.....