August 4, 200915 yr So, to answer the question posed earlier.... THIS is who the fukk Jill Sobule is..... :lol: If that is who Jill Sobule is then you're defining her according to her collaberators which is exactly what you just used to criticise Katy Perry :heehee:
August 4, 200915 yr Weren't you the one praising I Kissed A Girl and Katy herself to the absolute high heavens a year ago? Oh dear Rich... I've got a bad feeling that Jark may have you on this.... I actually do seem to remember you defending Ms Perry at one point when me and Richie (or was it Grebo?) were having a go at her for being a fake.....
August 4, 200915 yr If that is who Jill Sobule is then you're defining her according to her collaberators which is exactly what you just used to criticise Katy Perry :heehee: Yeah, Todd Rungren, Steve Earle, Lloyd Cole, Tom Morello, etc, CREDIBLE, TALENTED ARTISTS in their own right, as opposed to a bunch of faceless, nameless Record company suits with little or no talent..... :rolleyes:
August 4, 200915 yr Well in fairness Grimly, I Kissed A Girl was written the renowned and very credibly songwriter Cathy Dennis :heehee:
August 4, 200915 yr Weren't you the one praising I Kissed A Girl and Katy herself to the absolute high heavens a year ago? Yes, because it is a great song, and she was at least a breath of fresh air having come from behind the scenes as a writer of part of the Matrix songwriting set up (think of a US equivalent of Xenomania) having co-written songs for the likes of Avril Lavigne, Hilary Duff and Ashley Tisdale). For me her greatest effort remains Your So Gay = One of the greatest put down songs ever written to ex-Boyfriend Pete Wentz. The fact that it upset both right wing bigots and left wing politically correct do gooders was a huge plus, when you consider the likes of the Madonna, Cyndi Lauper, Scissor Sisters, Boy George, Moby and the Pet Shop Boys praised that track in late 2007. But her debut album was a very patchy affair, and to be honest in retrospect she now seems slightly more one dimension due to her limited shouty Pat Benatar-esque singing voice, the fact that Lily Allen significantly raised her game with her second album (hence I should give Katy Perry the benefit of the doubt), and most of all the emergence of Lady GaGa whom has blown her efforts out of the water.
August 4, 200915 yr Well in fairness Grimly, I Kissed A Girl was written the renowned and very credibly songwriter Cathy Dennis :heehee: Sorry, but that dont make her Lloyd Cole, Todd Rundgren or Steve Earle dude..... :rolleyes: Cathy Dennis was a relatively minor Pop talent in the 80/90ss with one or two hits, before turning to the behind-the-scenes stuff, which admittedly, she's been successful at... Todd Rungren, Lloyd Cole, Steve Earle, Tom Morello... I suggest you actually wiki them and view their formidable back-catalogues of albums, production credits, etc..... Rundgren produced the third biggest selling album of all-time - Meat Loaf's "Bat out of Hell"....
August 4, 200915 yr I'm not belittling anybody's talent, just letting you know that Cathy Dennis isn't a 'man in a suit'! And fair enough Rich. I suppose we all have the right to u-turn and despite being rather against her initially (I couldn't stomach I Kissed A Girl and still don't like it) I did come around thanks to what I thought was a good debut. It was flawed obviously but had a lot of charm and a few really great songs. I also like that she's written for other artists and always sings live despite sometimes sounding poisonous!
August 4, 200915 yr For me her greatest effort remains Your So Gay = One of the greatest put down songs ever written to ex-Boyfriend Pete Wentz. The lyrics to that song are quite funny. Shame the tune sucks..... :lol:
August 4, 200915 yr Oh dear Rich... I've got a bad feeling that Jark may have you on this.... I actually do seem to remember you defending Ms Perry at one point when me and Richie (or was it Grebo?) were having a go at her for being a fake..... Well if she is fake, then so is Lady Gaga. Going back in history so was Elvis Presley, so were the Beatles, so were the Rolling Stones, so was David Bowie, so were the Sex Pistols, ..... etc. All music acts however talented have a degree of manufactured bull$hit and hype too them. But these acts can easily get away with it if there is substance to it. Namely the songs ring true. The difference between then and now is to try and do it in a way that you do not mislead your audience (to give a famous example: Tracey Chapman was doing fine until it broke how she had a privileged upbringing and education which killed the sentiment and impact of her "Fast Cars" song, and her career nose dived as a result, as suddenly singing songs about being poor and oppressed and "Talking 'Bout A Revolution did not seem quite as authentic).
August 4, 200915 yr I'm not belittling anybody's talent, just letting you know that Cathy Dennis isn't a 'man in a suit'! I just wonder what Cathy Dennis' actual involvement in the song really is though... I get the feeling that she was the equivalent of a "script doctor"m contributing some lyrics... I've heard that the tune itself was originally the conceptual brainchild of Luke Goetzwald and Max Martin.... You know, I'm still waiting for that 21-year old male singer-songwriter and a big production team to come up with "I Kissed a BOY, and I Liked It"... Not gonna happen though, is it....? :rolleyes: Because male homosexuality doesn't "sell" like Lezploitation does.....
August 4, 200915 yr I'm not belittling anybody's talent, just letting you know that Cathy Dennis isn't a 'man in a suit'! And fair enough Rich. I suppose we all have the right to u-turn and despite being rather against her initially (I couldn't stomach I Kissed A Girl and still don't like it) I did come around thanks to what I thought was a good debut. It was flawed obviously but had a lot of charm and a few really great songs. I also like that she's written for other artists and always sings live despite sometimes sounding poisonous! Exactly. My motto on music is simple: "There are only two types of music. Music I like and music I don't like". Hence if Westlife were going to comeback with an amazing original song that is better than anything Take That have ever released then I would say so if I thought that was the case. Some of my favourite acts of all time (aarrrghh I've just remembered a thread I prepared last week that I have not posted in the Lounge, because the site was down for most of the weekend) have released some rubbish material which I remain critical of. One of my pet hates is posters who unconditionally love everything their favourite artist releases, and unconditionally dislike certain artists entire output without actually listening to it.
August 4, 200915 yr I just wonder what Cathy Dennis' actual involvement in the song really is though... I get the feeling that she was the equivalent of a "script doctor"m contributing some lyrics... I've heard that the tune itself was originally the conceptual brainchild of Luke Goetzwald and Max Martin.... You know, I'm still waiting for that 21-year old male singer-songwriter and a big production team to come up with "I Kissed a BOY, and I Liked It"... Not gonna happen though, is it....? :rolleyes: Because male homosexuality doesn't "sell" like Lezploitation does..... I know the answer to this, having heard a Radio interview with her on Radio 2 about songwriting. Her contribution to the song was the music to the entire bridge, which had come from another composition she had worked upon. Us girls we are so magical Soft skin, red lips, so kissable Hard to resist, so touchable Too good to deny it Ain't no big deal it's innocent
August 4, 200915 yr Well if she is fake, then so is Lady Gaga. Going back in history so was Elvis Presley, so were the Beatles, so were the Rolling Stones, so was David Bowie, so were the Sex Pistols, ..... etc. All music acts however talented have a degree of manufactured bull$hit and hype too them. But these acts can easily get away with it if there is substance to it. Namely the songs ring true. The difference between then and now is to try and do it in a way that you do not mislead your audience (to give a famous example: Tracey Chapman was doing fine until it broke how she had a privileged upbringing and education which killed the sentiment and impact of her "Fast Cars" song, and her career nose dived as a result, as suddenly singing songs about being poor and oppressed and "Talking 'Bout A Revolution did not seem quite as authentic). But there's pretty much NO substance to Katy Perry.... She wants us to see her as a Tori/Joni/Alanis type of credible female singer/songwriter... Sorry, but I see her as little better (and certainly no more honest) than Avril Lavigne to be honest, and frankly, I thought Avril was considerably less annoyingly pretentious when she came on the scene first off..... "Lady Ga Ga" I know is a made-up character by Stefani Germotta, like "Marilyn Manson/Omega/Adam" are made up characters from the imagination of Brian Warner, so I can accept that fakery a LOT easier than some fake-ass "lipstick lesbian" who's using lezploitaion to shift units with no real sense of irony.... Perry is really pretty much the same as that Tracey Chapman example you cited....
August 4, 200915 yr Her contribution to the song was the music to the entire bridge, which had come from another composition she had worked upon. Us girls we are so magical Soft skin, red lips, so kissable Hard to resist, so touchable Too good to deny it Ain't no big deal it's innocent Well, tbh, that's pretty much what I thought it was.... A relatively small portion of the tune and five lines of lyrics.... A "lyric doctor" role then, as I thought.... Which means the bulk of it is written by Martin and Dr Luke.....
August 4, 200915 yr Exactly. My motto on music is simple: "There are only two types of music. Music I like and music I don't like". One of my pet hates is posters who unconditionally love everything their favourite artist releases, and unconditionally dislike certain artists entire output without actually listening to it. A slightly simplistic motto which doesn't take into account genre though Rich..... :lol: No fear on the second score with me... There's been stuff by favourites of mine that I've detested.... I mean, it took Metallica almost two decades to come up with an album that I wanted to listen to more than once..... :lol: :lol:
August 4, 200915 yr But there's pretty much NO substance to Katy Perry.... She wants us to see her as a Tori/Joni/Alanis type of credible female singer/songwriter... Sorry, but I see her as little better (and certainly no more honest) than Avril Lavigne to be honest, and frankly, I thought Avril was considerably less annoyingly pretentious when she came on the scene first off..... "Lady Ga Ga" I know is a made-up character by Stefani Germotta, like "Marilyn Manson/Omega/Adam" are made up characters from the imagination of Brian Warner, so I can accept that fakery a LOT easier than some fake-ass "lipstick lesbian" who's using lezploitaion to shift units with no real sense of irony.... Perry is really pretty much the same as that Tracey Chapman example you cited.... To be honest the moment I turned against her was when she said that the concept of the song had come via a dream. Now I could have swallowed that had the song been entirely self-penned. But I can't believe the likes of Luke Goetzwald, Max Martin, Cathy Dennis and more importantly some suits within the Record Company are not going to remember a VMA nominated song from 1995; that made the Top 40 of US Radio airplay. It just reminds me of the time when Sandi Thom's PR company spread a story about a webcast seeing her play a gig in her basement that the total number of views that her website had ever received, was the total number of views that had seen that performance. And of course once that got found oout, her PR told her to deny the story was misleading, before stats showed it was untrue, and her career was as good as over afterwards. Not quite Milli Vanilli but close. :lol: Frighteningly that PR company is now doing a massive pigs ear of running Little Boots media campaign .....
August 4, 200915 yr To be honest the moment I turned against her was when she said that the concept of the song had come via a dream. Now I could have swallowed that had the song been entirely self-penned. Absolutely... Complete horsesh!t that claim was, as I said in one of my previous posts.... Like four people could dream the same dream ffs..... :lol: :lol:
August 5, 200915 yr It's only a title, Jill needs to relax. :rolleyes: The songs sound nothing alike.
August 7, 200915 yr I've actually known about that Jill Sobule song since like early 21st century. ;o It was a fairly sizable hit in America. Enough that it caused a BIT OF A STIR. I like that it's like actual lesbin, though I do love Katy Perty's I Kissed a Girl too. ;(
