nirvanamusic

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-...ak-america.html Thoughts? As far as I'm aware in terms of doing some kind of long(ish) stint in the US, only Five, Busted, JLS, McFly and Take That have given it any kind of try there. One Direction and The Wanted were a hit before they landed through social media. Americans thought Five were Americans, attitude, style, sound etc. So does their one top 10 really count if you are disguising yourself into another culture? Busted were incredibly idiosyncratic and off the wall even for Brits at times. McFly have never sold enough records in Britain to warrant a major push in America. JLS likewise, they had zero impact outside of the UK and Ireland. However, they would have been the most obvious due to their sound, style, look and being a vocal harmony group. Take That only went over there seriously as a four piece with the knowledge of a split and played the game to a top 10 single, Back For Good. A last hurrah to prove to themselves if they played the US game for once they could have a hit and they did, Top 10. Westlife were right in the thick of Backstreet Boys and NSYNC so stood no chance. They also aren't versatile enough or dare I say it, interesting. America doesn't need a covers band. Boyzone wouldn't have been exciting enough/interesting/original for the US and were also blocked by BSB/NSYNC. Blue could have done well there but their airplay was pulled early in their career due to Lee Ryan's comments about the recent 9/11 tragedy. ''Who gives a f@ck about New York''. They wrote the song One Love partially to try and get on US radio and make ammends but the damage was already done. Based on what the article says, a group like East 17 potentially could have done alright in the States but never set foot there I don't think. It was such a HUGE gamble especially pre social media. The article goes on about One Direction breaking the mold and having what it takes. Did they? Or did they benefit in a time where you didn't have to physically show up to every nation and radio station. The way they all probably saw it was.. we want our music to travel as far and wide as possible in (potentially) such a short space of time. Be known all over the world minus the USA or known in the USA and potentially as a result worldwide (however, 98 Degrees were successful in America and nowhere else. As a result haven't sold anywhere near the acts listed) I would have chosen the first option. Success in America is all about having the ultimate wealth, fame and status but those reasons aren't good enough and have nothing to do with music.

https://deadline.com/2025/01/box-office-den...era-1236253670/ Do we believe that if this was a conventional film with an actor it would have done better? They should have re-introduced him during the production so that once the film opened there could have been some current reference of Robbie. George Michael fine, ok. But the Geri Halliwell reference there is a bit strange. He definitely has the same profile in the UK as her and would people in Britain ''stampede'' for a Geri Halliwell/Spice Girls film? I don't think so, I think this journalist is outdated in his views on British pop culture. People forget that now both Robbie and Take That have over DOUBLE the sales of the Spice Girls in Britain, over a much longer period.

" I know he wants to be authentic and seen as a human being, but the truth is that bands and artists who build strong third act legacies don’t do it by telling everyone they are terrible and running their own music down. They engage in self-mythologising about how amazing they are" This 100%. This was the difference between the UK Boybands Forever and Reign of the Boybands: Larger Than Life, the US only version. The Americans were very brand conscious and as a result it is a self and some industry talking heads giving a congratulatory pat on the back basically saying "we are the ones who made it in the States". They make 'I Want It That Way' out to be the greatest pop song of the last century, using words such as masterpiece etc.

Regarding Take That, Mark has seen it but hasn't posted since last year and his family has had to evacuate due to the LA fires. Howard isn't hugely into social media. Gary I'm not convinced will ever see it. The one interview I saw about it he said he was intrigued but nervous and not sure if he will. TBF he has taken a battering over the past year Netflix documentary, Boybands Forever and now the film. Some Americans don't understand this dynamic as have said as the one who could sing, write and compose of course he would have been the leader of the group. It seems to me that Gary lives an ignorance is bliss lifestyle and has spoken about avoiding situations which could open old wounds. The music is really a joke at Gary's expense (no pun intended) as commented by a few reviews. It Only Takes a Minute and Relight My Fire are covers and I Found Heaven was written by producers Ian Levine and Billy Griffin, so GB gets no credit. The latter a song all 5 hate and refuse to perform live. They are really the light camp comic relief of the film. Clueless and the blind leading the blind. Yes it is noted their first album was very hit and miss but by Pray and the second album they were completely cohesive, consistent and worldbeaters. This isn't really shown other than Gary now living in a mansion with a butler, but again it isn't their story to tell and time is limited. Had I known nothing of Take That I would have thought they can put on a show but aren't musicians. Obviously we know this isn't the case as aside from that one dreadful song they were forced to sing and the 4 covers they put out (but changed) everything was created from within. Gary on piano and writing/composing/producing songs, Jason on acoustic guitar, dance routines and styling, Howard creating the harmonies and Rob/Mark backing vocals/shared or full leads. They came across as a boyband who are told what to do by producers but that was never Take That. They weren't that kind of boyband.

A positive is that the film is so incredibly highly rated. I haven't seen ratings that high for a long time, and that can't be faked. Would the film have been as good on a lesser budget? It seems that huge production figure is what is really hampering the percentages and determining the fail factor. I can see it doing well on streaming but no one I know has Paramount+. I feel bad for Robbie because the reality is more mature individuals outside of America would simply address the fact he isn't known in their country then procede with their opinion. The whole failure and nasty, mocking vitriol isn't needed. A lot of them say his music, vocals, performance isn't good enough and below standard for America. ''They'll give anyone a biopic now.'' But the fact is, what have these individuals achieved personally themselves? We don't know.

I think Paramount took far too long to open up the wider release in the US which allowed the negative discourse to continue, swell and expand far longer than it should have, and maybe that has effected elsewhere. Just having six theatres was always going to produce low figures for people to run with. Personally and I have seen this mentioned a few times elsewhere, the film should have come out at least 10 years ago to have had some sort of success. Paramount acquiring the film for 25 million dollars was ambitious but unrealistic for that market. https://variety.com/2025/film/box-office/bo...man-1236272189/ Going back to the film Here starring Tom Hanks that was deemed the biggest box office flop of last year at 13.4 million worldwide on a budget of 45-50 million, not 110 million.

Hopefully once it is on streaming it will be a hit like 'Tiger King' was. It annoys me though that on Wikipedia and social media (the two places most people get their information) people had deemed it a flop before it was even released. I just think Americans --general public-- just want to continue with that narrative. After all nobody likes to admit they were wrong or accept change. It's just an ego trip for some people there. Robbie referenced this in his interviews ''why do I have to break America to be deemed a success?'' ''what about Brazil or Japan?'' It goes back to what Jason said in interviews in the '90s about how they (Take That) were just as happy to be successfull in Belgium as if they were in the US. I don't mean to be dissmissive but I'm surprised all his fans across Europe and Australia/New Zealand haven't all rushed into the cinemas. Unfortunately, it will obviously go onto Paramount+ and I don't know about anyone else but I don't know a single person with a subscription there.

Hopefully it won't go to streaming too soon so the momentum and box office can build like it has been.

Not sure where to put this as couldn't find thread but Robbie has re-charted on the UK and Ireland album's chart: In and Out of Consciousness - Greatest Hits 1990-2010: UK: #54. Ireland: #90.

I agree about Take That in Las Vegas, I think their mixture of songs would be perfect for that setting. Never Forget peaked at #7 on the Billboard Lyric Find U.S chart in May 2023 after their perfomance at the coronation, and #4 on the Lyric Find Global chart. Curiosity has definitely been raised over the years and they were featured on the US Paramount documentary: Boybands: Larger Than Life this year. The American music industry commentator stated how they were the biggest pop band and dominated music in Europe at the time, then played a clip of Back For Good. Because Take That were a boyband and not many had success to that level worldwide, I think it is easier for them to be referenced, listed on countdown charts and promoted in America. Robbie being a solo artist against many succesful international solo artists is harder to be seen. In my opinion. In November 2023 both Angels (#3) and Come Undone (#5) charted on Billboard Lyric Find U.S chart. Do we know why?

In the carpool karaoke Howard explained how they turned everything down. The Americans were desperate for them to come over and do all of the promo. The difference with Take That is they only went to countries which had accepted them and given them hits. They never forced themselves upon nations like the Backstreet Boys, for example, who came in like a freight train military operation and not accepting no for an answer. Jason even mentioned in an interview how they were happy being popular in Belgium just as much as if they were in America. I just feel they wanted their music to be heard and authentically recieved, which it was. As a result there are far less Take That records in charity shops and bargain bins across the world. As far as America/Canada are concerned. They were both given different approaches and styles. Canada (single releases): It Only Takes A Minute: February 1993. Peak#20. They had an interview on national TV programme Spotlight (MTV/TRL type). Robbie did an original rap and Howard beat boxed for their performance. They also performed across Toronto in schools and there is footage of this and an interview on youtube. They performed It Only Takes A Minute. Then nothing singles wise... for years. The albums were released --as they were worldwide, regardless of success-- (TT & Party and Everything Changes) and it is reported on a Canadian streaming site bio of them that 'Everything Changes' album did well across Canada, yet didn't break top 100 due to a lack of any promotional effort by the group. It basically stuck around for months, but in the lower sections. Back For Good. #1 for two weeks in Autumn 1995. These next releases the band had already split up. Pray released with a Canadian music video (4 of them) #55. March 1996. ( ) None of the charisma/iconic visuals of original but Robbie was gone so couldn't use that. How Deep Is Your Love #80 in JULY 1996. Zero promotion. Nobody Else & Greatest Hits both Top 40 albums with good chart runs, not flash in the pan. Nobody Else selling Platinum (100,000 copies). Patience #21 March 2007. HOWEVER, this was a 'New Entry' as were all the entries on that chart as charts prior to Canadian Hot 100 forming (that week) went missing in transition. Therefore Patience potentially could have been higher during those missing weeks/months. They have a sizeable and committed fanbase across Canada. Status: Huge chart topping single in 1995 but overall mainly an inconsistent Top 40 act - '93,'95,'96,'07. USA: The approach and style was different here. As far as I'm aware they only officially released three singles for airplay/cd here. A Million Love Songs: September 1993. Didn't chart. Promotion appearence on Regis and Kathy Lee show. Love Ain't Here Anymore (US remix - I much prefer the pop version) included for 1995 US version of Nobody Else. Released, though not sure when '94,'95,'96? but didn't chart. Zero promotion. Back For Good. August 1995, peak autumn of that year. #7, over a month in Top 10. Billboard Hot 100 year end charts, 1995 and 1996. Promotion as a four (David Letterman, Today show, MTV profile in LA, Regis and Kathy Lee) and knowing the group was ending by time of US Top 10 placement. It shows. These interviews and performances of the song are the worst I have seen. Not terrible or bad, just lacking spark. Jaded. I believe BFG was a bucket list move by them to prove to themselves that if they played the game and promoted/spent time there they could have a hit, and they did. No other releases as far as I'm aware. Clearly NMS thought ballads like Boyz II Men, the dominant leaders of that time in the US, was the way to go. I disagree. TT & Party was released in September 1993 with altered track listing. Didn't chart. Everything Changes probably released like in Canada/worldwide. Nobody Else mid 1995. Peak #69. Little promotion for album, knew group was ending. Take That has a committed presence and has been referenced in US by One Direction, New Kids on the Block, NSYNC, Backstreet Boys, 98 Degrees so are known by name and as the premier boyband in Europe of their time. I see loads of comments in the US stating they heard of them through these bands. Had they stayed all five together and had the hit with Back For Good in America then been able to follow that up with another or two. They could all have had a profile to go off on in America either as a group or solo. Back For Good and Never Forget have featured in American publications (Billboard, Rolling Stone etc) for greatest boyband songs. They featured on E's! Greatest boybands countdown as the highest non-US act and likewise for Mojo's (Canadian) Best boybands of all time, ballads list and best UK acts not to break America. Therefore they are known and respected by the industry there, just not the average person. There was a backlash against pop acts in America during those Take That years due to the lipsyncing of Milli Vanilli and New Kids being overly mass merchandised. Status: One Hit Wonders - '95. Take That can tour North America and South America. An article collected social media data and routed a tour map of the cities, nations and venues. 10 years old now but I feel their presence has actually grown in the US. https://www.radiocremebrulee.com/take-that/...tour-in-the-us/

I know over 100 million box office is the benchmark figure deemed a hit. What figure would we be happy with for the feature? What figure is a cult/underground favourite?

30th anniversary of Nobody Else album this year would have been perfect for a South American tour.

''The film received positive reviews from critics but bombed at the box office, notably in North America where Williams has never developed a significant fanbase.'' This is on the film's Wikipedia page, but I thought it hasn't had a wide release in North America yet? If it has made 2.1 million box office worldwide that is slightly higher than 'Greatest Days' box office of 2 million. But that film was only released in the UK and Ireland, recieved next to ZERO publicity --especially in comparison-- and dissapeared out of the Top 10 after two weeks. Is the 2.1 million figure correct? The film 'Here' with Tom Hanks only took 13.4 million worldwide and that was deemed the biggest commercial flop of last year.

Robbie's latest instagram post states he is about to do some North American promotion so that will be good. Just to add another thing about US culture, the only reason for musicians to want to do well in the US is to become more famous and wealthy. Neither of which are true indicators of artistic merit. I just can't believe how entitled and ignorant a lot of the US general public are being about Robbie and others simply for not being famous in their country. There are thousands of Bollywood actors/actresses I've never heard of, same with K-Pop etc but I wouldn't dismiss their talents. I have heard some American artists like Bon Jovi say how in America they make you the biggest thing then discard and mock you, holding musicians to a specific place and time of relevance, whereas in Europe and overseas they respect your whole career and output more, longevitiy.

I have noticed this about the US public as opposed to other nations. They seem to take pride in being the only nation not to have accepted something/one, and almost dismiss as if to say if it didn't happen then it won't happen now. I think too much empthasis is placed on if you are successful in America, but the reality is their charts are the least diverse or fast moving in the world, stale almost. The songs which are successful also have to be mainly bland to fit across US radio. The thing I don't like is the amount of people in the US diminishing his and others achievements simply because they never "broke" or "made it" in the States. People saying the music or performance isn't good enough, which isn't true and is a very simplistic outlook negating many factors and circumstances for foreign artists at that time. Hopefully Robbie will do what he has always done and storm elsewhere providing numbers which show he doesn't need North America as much. The film hasn't opened in Latin/South America yet or the Middle East/Asia unless I am mistaken. The reason I asked is because I noticed Paramount had gone silent on their socials and were back pushing Sonic 3 so it made me wonder. If it is playing in only 6 theatres, what would be a success?

How is Better Man doing in LA, New York, and Toronto?

Not seen that before but thought it was great.

They should give it another cinema run to play alongside Better Man. Double feature.

this is a great and interesting site which keeps track of where shows have been performed worldwide. Take That: https://www.setlist.fm/stats/concert-map/ta...t-63d6ea97.html Robbie: https://www.setlist.fm/stats/concert-map/ro...s-13d6bd11.html I can't speak for Robbie but Take That, in my opinion, need to do a first concert in the following places, based on chart/airplay/spotify/youtube views, and active online fan group data. Africa: Egypt, South Africa, Zimbabwe. Asia: India, Turkey, Malaysia, Philippines. Europe: Croatia, Estonia, Iceland, Norway, Latvia, Lithuania. North America: Canada, Mexico, USA. South America: Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Peru.

True, I know his fans will really support the film when it is out. Not to be dissmissive but there are the Oscars and the real world, i.e national global charts. Songs people remember all over the world in popular culture. How many ordinary people truly remember Best Original song winners? Glad it is less than a week untill out in the cinemas!

It think it is a shame because it is basically a slap on the wrist in front of his musical peers, those who vote. They should have notified this before the final 15.

https://deadline.com/2024/12/forbidden-road...ist-1236239506/ This is a shame, I'm not convinced Rob or Freddy Wexler would have been aware of the Academy members' 1973 song who flagged it up, and was unintentional. At least this didn't happen had the song been final listed as the publicity would have been worse.

https://x.com/Screendaily/status/1865859102535995865 The film just won Best Independent International Film at the BIFA (British Independent Film Awards) 2024 and the director thanked Take That in his speech.

No comparison, however regarding the UK I'm surprised Mark didn't sell more after Take That in '96/'97 and also off the back of the highest public win vote on any Big Brother in 2002. It's crazy to think in the UK alone they have sold over 28 million records at least, and Mark didn't have a higher commercial success from this. He had 2/3rd's of the fan mail during the '90s. So where did they go? Gary has done ok in UK sales, but again pales in comparison to Take That's, even if you compared like-for-like i.e Gary's 6 solo albums for 6 random Take That albums. If that makes sense? I also believe Take That's global sales are higher than 45 million, so wish we had a reliable update.