Piers

I've heard of If Ya Do as a rumored track too...but I can't seem to find anything about it now. I actually just scrolled through the old SpiceNews site articles from 2000...and didn't spot anything. Anyway. This was 20 years ago, so I could be off on this. But my memory is that If Ya Do was one of the rumored titles of Forever tracks that emerged in the months before the album release. Supposedly Emma revealed it? I thought some fan sites reported it at the time. I'm not sure I invest that much faith into the rumor. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think we ever saw writing credits spring up for an If Ya Do. Also...I find it a little unlikely they'd put an If Ya Do and an If You Wanna Have Some Fun on the same album. There were several odd song rumors floating around before Forever came out. Perhaps the oddest rumor was that a seven minute song called Bye was going to be included...which was mostly going to be them saying goodbye to the fans. Quick side note. Reading through those old Spice stories from 2000, Victoria and (especially) Mel C were pretty vicious to other acts in pop in *a lot* of interviews. A. Lot. Lol. They certainly didn't like Geri...

I mean. Who knows. It might be? I think in all likelihood, the girls did get offered the song by Riley. That part was reported by MTV...and I think everything MTV said about the girls back then turned out to be real or at least something that was genuinely in the pipeline. I'm just not convinced the group ever recorded it or even accepted the offer. Maybe that was part of the reason Riley was so sour to Mel B? He was trying to get the group for a project and only got a single member instead? I did always think one part of the story was especially odd...it was intended for the South Park movie soundtrack? That soundtrack ended up only having songs from the movie itself (which was a musical). What seems slightly more likely is that the song could have been for South Park's Chef Aid album released at the end of 1998...which did have a few big artists on it. Anyway. It's got my curiosity, but I don't think the girls not being on the song is any great loss. I like pretty much all of Forever better than Girlfriend/Boyfriend. I also think the song was a bit below Janet's usual standard in that time too. The old music video's a bit of a curiosity. Parts of it are actually quite creative and still look cool, but it's like they run out of money or effort or something at a a certain point.

I may have talked about it before...but Girlfriend/Boyfriend has always been especially interesting to me. I remember way back in mid-1998, MTV reported Teddy Riley had offered the song to the girls. As far as I can tell, everything after that has been tabloid speculation. Besides fan sites claiming it, do we actually know the girls recorded it? I'm fairly sure none of them have ever addressed that song in interviews. A clip leaked back then that was an obvious fake. Granted, Teddy Riley did go on to work with Mel B on Hot. She described him as being hard to work with...with a bad attitude and a lot of preconceived notions about her. To me...this doesn't especially sound like she had a prior working relationship with him from a Girlfriend/Boyfriend session. I guess it's always possible they didn't record it (or their recording was dumped) when two of the girls got pregnant and the group went on a hiatus (the song was eventually released in May '99 when the group would've been pretty unlikely to shoot a new video or promote it). One last thing. Anything else remember these rumored lyrics floating around in 1999? "Sugar and Spice, naughty and nice, glitter and ice, entice, Spice up your life not your baby's mom or wife." They sound pretty made up to me.

On the plus side, I really like the song. I typically like her stuff, but this one probably ranks among the top 5 of her post-Passion stuff for me. But. Y'know. I do find it aggressively annoying that the song's clearly cut down and she's talking over it about things like...her husband's cat allergy (...yes, really). I really like her. She can wear white all she wants as far as I'm concerned. If she wants to be regal, cool with me. But honestly. Teasing songs forever but never delivering is a genuine problem for her. The comments section of her videos is basically being overwhelmed by people fighting over this issue. If the primary response to this Youtube channel is arguments among the fanbase on how the songs are presented...something needs to get fixed. If there was a clear plan to get the real songs out there, then cool. I'd roll with the teases. But there's not. And after nine years of her sometimes teasing a new album, I think it's a little naive at this point to expect her to actually deliver anything she's teasing.

It's fine. It's heartfelt. The videography is still excellent. Though. Audio issues in her interview sprang up briefly in the last video...and they're far more pronounced this time. These videos look too sharp in their production to let consistent audio glitches happen. Switch out the mic, and don't drop the ball on the gig over that. I think the new song's really pretty, actually. I am starting to wonder if she's only going to be featuring her more inspirational tracks. The ones featured so far definitely have a certain vibe. I was kinda hoping she'd at least do a video fun enough to feature a Phenomenal Woman or something. I also kinda wonder if any of these adventures (?) would make sense to feature the excellent Without Love. Several of her yet-to-be-released songs (this one, Love and Light, and the original mix of Man on the Mountain) remind me a lot of a song called Home by Phillip Phillips. I've wondered if that song was an influence. It was a huge hit in the US when it came out in 2012...and it still gets used in movie trailers and commercials to this day. It doesn't appear to have been an especially big hit in other parts of the world. Though. It was originally the first release of one of the American Idol winners, so there's a bit of a Simon Fuller/19 connection maybe.

^ I was never totally clear on how we ended up with Geri's album and Song For Her (...in terms of where the fans got it...) I do remember how we got Kennedy's abandoned Forever tracks. Someone pretended to be Simon Fuller (or a rep for him) and tricked him into sending over the four songs. Geri's album is a bit more complicated an issue, though. While Kennedy did produce Song For Her, Love and Light, and Man on the Mountain (...and maybe some others I don't remember), a lot of that leaked album is also work Geri did with Amy Wadge and Absolute. I guess it's plausible Kennedy would have all the material...not necessarily just his stuff. If it really is his fault that Song For Her and the Geri album got out there...then...wow...he let a lot slip into the public in a short space of time. I guess just about the only Kennedy thing we don't have yet are the early solo Victoria tracks he supposedly did (pretty sure this was supposed to be pre-Out of Your Mind stuff).

To be fair, this version is quite different from the leaked one. I realize I just got done griping about how I like the leaked version a lot better. Lol. (What can I say...the noisier something is, the better I like it) But. Put that aside. There’s a legitimacy that comes with a more official release. This version of the song has her backing, and while I might like the earlier mix better, I genuinely do want to hear her actual vision. Who knows what stage that other version came from and if she ever intended for us to hear it like that? I’d agree that it wasn’t right for her music to leak. But it’s perhaps also odd for her to tease songs for years upon years. I don’t think she’s trolling us. I don’t think that at all. She’s not a troll. I think she’s genuinely oblivious to how her fans are reacting to the constant teases without getting the songs in a legit form. Anyway. I’ve been a fan this long. I’m not going anywhere. But considering how long we’ve been waiting to hear the Geri-approved versions of this material...it kinda stands to reason that some of us would think we’re not going to get it this time either... (Also. To be clear. I have zero expectation of a new physical Geri album. I’m only looking for her to release *her* versions on YouTube)

We technically have heard the earlier versions of these songs through the leak. So. That does at least take away from the annoyance a bit. But I’m certainly curious to hear what’s kinda...the official version of the songs. Here’s the thing. If not for the leak, Geri has basically been teasing the same songs for five years. You get a little snippet in an Elmo video. You get little snippets in her baking videos. She does interviews about them. Then, when she finally claims she’s going to give you some full songs...nope. It’s yet another tease. Is she testing the water for a Spotify release? I kinda doubt it. Has she been testing the water for Spotify for the last five years?

I'm generally a defender of her solo ambitions. I genuinely like the vast majority of her music. I've even come to view this Youtube channel as a kinda creative way of getting around some hurdles in getting her music heard. But. Geri...This. Is. Not. It. What a mess. The song's cut down to only two minutes. She talks all over it. This version sounds like a demo for the (to me) incomparably better version that leaked a few years ago. Does anyone honestly like this version better? She's had major success in stages of her career. Her team seems sharp in their videography. How could this many people get it this wrong? Ugh. Geri! Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. On a minor plus side...there are a lot of comments of complaint. So. Maybe her team will get the message. Duh.

I kinda realize these things are more meant to be bought than actually listened to. It's for a good cause, and I'm certainly not going to take away from that. And I guess the thought is...by including this many big artists, they can get some sales from a whole lot of different fanbases. But. Y'know. These sorts of singles tend to get released...and then promptly disappear like they never happened. I always think...would the single not actually sell more for the cause if they scaled it down and made it a duet between, say, just Cher and Kylie?

That's definitely true that no matter how much the public's perception changes, another hit isn't likely to come. The world is waking up to a lot of injustices...but ageism isn't one of them...and beats me if we'll ever get there. It's not really even part of the discussion. I guess I'd like for her public perception to change for this reason; Despite their career ups and downs, I think the first thing most people think of when they hear the names Mariah Carey or Whitney Houston would be..."great voices" or "great songs". Most people. Their career achievements outweigh the downs in their careers. I think it's getting to the point with Madonna where her downs are outweighing the ups in the public eye...with her name too quickly conjuring the image of a woman in a milk bath giving oddball speeches. And I don't like that for an artist that truly helped shape the modern music landscape...and has so many amazing songs in her vault (many of which carry her writing credit). I'm just hoping for a tour that doesn't come with the added baggage of "...but it went on three hours late" or a biopic without reviews claiming "...Madonna directs unwatchable self-absorbed pity party."

Yeah. My general feeling watching this was I was watching little selected clips from a series...not watching the series itself. I think it'd be nice to have a few more characters in the mix...and hopefully future installments will get there. Beats me if her husband wants in this...but Bluebell and Geri's mother would seem to be good additions to have around. I get that Geri's not wanting to do the usual train wreck/family drama reality TV thing with this. But having women of multiple generations of the family in the mix would seem to add to the vibe she's going for. I did think she came across well in the video. I saw she posted something on Insta about uploading a "hangover" to Youtube on Tuesday. I assume that'll be the song? Both Man on the Mountain and Love and Light are featured in this episode...so...kinda makes me wonder which we might be getting. Man on the Mountain, I assume.

A side note about this. I've known people who have worked the production of her tours...and they've said the late shows are because M insists on two-hour mic checks. They've told me she's the only act in the biz who does this. I only halfway follow the logic of that. When I saw her, a DJ opened...and then we all sat there for another two-and-a-half hours waiting. She wasn't doing a mic check during all that time? But maybe the long mic checks delay other things getting done in prep? Beats me.

The biopic probably has the best chance of improving the general public's view of her as anything. Whether it turns out amazing or terrible, this will be a permanent part of her legacy...and that's why it's so important the right team brings it to life. As I mentioned before, a Diablo Cody screenplay was the right first step. I honestly don't think there's anyone better for the job. I realize there's something a bit interesting about a director basically creating an autobiographical film. But. While I think it's a good idea for M to be around as a consultant, I think there's something to be said for an impartial voice being involved. The surviving members of Queen famously wanted Freddie to die midway through Bohemian Rhapsody...and have the second half show the band soldiering on without him. The public would have hated that film. But impartial voices created the film that became an enormous hit. Considering M's disdain for public expectations, she could be setting this up for major disappointment. Plus...while she's an artist, I'm not sure her aesthetic choices in recent years will make for a particularly liked film. God forbid the song performances in this thing end up as the unwatchable chaos that is her tour DVDs. I keep harping on it, but Patty Jenkins is the woman for the job. Female director. She did gritty with Charlize Theron in Monster. She did a commercial hit with Wonder Woman. She's just the right person to balance the combo of edgy and commercial that has been the best known moments of M's career.

Yeah. I knew some people wouldn't like those comments on her tours...lol. I'm not meaning to be totally negative. I actually really enjoyed the show. I'm a longtime fan, and I know the catalogue. So. I'll probably have a good time no matter what she trots out. But I'm talking about general ticket buyers here. If you were doing a dissection of the Rebel Heart tour...the general public doesn't know the first four songs...then they get a little snippet of Vogue. Another three songs they don't know. True Blue on a ukulele. The main moments that felt full-on...where hit songs were played to their full potential were Music, Material Girl, and Holiday. (Deeper and Deeper was actually my favorite moment...but my perception is that it's better known by fans than the GP in the US). The reviews from publications are good because the shows are technically excellent. I'm just reporting back what I experienced. I was smiling as I left the show. But a lot of people around me were miffed over it starting three hours late...and confused why half of what they heard was songs they didn't know. And yes, many artists focus on their current album on tour. But they're artists who are still a force on the charts. Whether it's fair or not, M's on her third album that's been largely ignored by the GP (despite good first week chartings for the albums). Those legacy artists who play the hits know doing so is their longevity as a touring act. It's good business to do that. Is there another artist of M's stature and career longevity who doesn't? Honestly, name one. She's a legend, and she can do what she wants. I'll try to be there any time she tours close by. But we have to entertain the notion that her playing theaters instead of stadiums and arenas might not actually be by choice.

I thought she said in her Insta live that the songs were going to play at the end of each video? Technically, a small bit of Love and Light does play at the end of this one...so I really hope that's not what she was referring to. As to the video itself, it's cute. The photography is honestly excellent. Besides some audio glitches toward the end of her interview (which would have been an easy fix...), her team's doing a good job. In terms of storytelling, there's part of me that wishes a few minutes were spent at the start of this one...reintroducing her family as characters in this series...seeing where she lives...talking about what she's doing. Instead...it's a bit...'okay, we're goin' up a mountain!' My major disappointment is the new version of Man on the Mountain being used. What I liked about the version we've previously known was the combination of guitar and dancey elements. I always found that one really beautiful. It's probably one of my three favorites of her recent-ish material. The new one robs it of the fun. I guess I'm going to have to grin and bear it cause this is seemingly the official version. I can remember Geri also scaled down Back in Business at one point. So. I hope she hasn't gone through and stripped a bunch of her songs of their energy in some attempt at maturity. At least it sounds like Love and Light has been untouched.

I always forget Stannard wrote that much for Victoria. Honestly, I think he's the single best collaborator she ever had as a solo artist. He kinda cracked the code for what her solo material should be. His songs play into her posh persona...cool pop. The songs he created were developing a solid new sound for her. Shame it never got a release...and I guess we don't have much idea about how complete these are either...(I guess they're demos, but they largely sound releasable to me...) As to them being repurposed for the Spice Girls...in some alternate universe, I could see them making for good additions to the middle of a comeback album. The cool fits Victoria like a glove, though for the group as a whole, I think there'd also have to be material to accompany this that's a bit louder and more lively.

I think vibe nails it with all of this. To me, the key way to start winning people back would be to give the general public what they want with the tours. I've gotten pushback from other Madonna fans about this before...but truly...the general public has not been getting what they want from a Madonna show for a while. I went to Rebel Heart. Personally, I enjoyed it. Spectacular production. But nearly everyone else I knew at the show left disappointed. It started three hours late...and when it finally got going, they didn't get enough of the hits they paid to hear. Sure, big fans like me know M goes on late and heavily caters to the current album. But it's not entirely fair to expect the GP to just know that. They don't want to get a little sliver of Vogue buried in a full length version of one of the weaker Rebel Heart album tracks. I'll go to another show by Madonna. All the other people I know...will not. The show didn't deliver what they wanted. I've seen many of the top selling acts of all time. Elton John, Billy Joel, Paul McCartney, Queen, Fleetwood Mac, Rolling Stones, Aretha Franklin. Madonna was the only one who didn't have the inherent understanding of...ya gotta give the people what they want. Also. A biopic about Madonna may have the potential to win some of the GP back over. But a biopic about Madonna *directed* by Madonna...will most certainly not do that. Diablo Cody writing the screenplay? Great idea. Madonna directing? This will be a guaranteed disaster. It will be viewed as a shameless ego project. Furthermore, the reason people love Bohemian Rhapsody isn't because it's a great film (in some ways, it's not). It's loved because it delivers big energetic renditions of songs the world loves. Madonna has shown for years a disinterest (and sometimes contempt) for what the GP wants. If she wants a hit, she needs to hand the reigns to someone like Wonder Woman director Patty Jenkins.

^ As I bought the album in the US, I actually tend to recognize the blue top as being the Northern Star cover art. The way my album was set up...the blue top was actually a sleeve, and the regular shot of her sitting on the rock was underneath. I don't know this for a fact, but I always guessed that the sleeve came about in the US because Mel C's top is see through on the back of the original album art.

I agree that 2007 seemed like the prime time for a new album. Though. I've always been of the opinion that if they were making a genuine comeback attempt, the music might not have actually sounded like Headlines and Voodoo. The five girls in their solo careers...and Stannard/Rowe as writers and producers...had all evolved in their sound. To me, Headlines and Voodoo sounded like a pretty clear attempt to try and recreate their 1997 sound...just so they could slot in comfortably with the old hits. If they were truly trying to return as a contemporary act, I think they might have ended up sounding more like, say, Stannard's work on the Kylie X album from around that time. Actually having all five girls work on the material probably would have produced something a bit different too. I don't know all the particulars, but I've always been under the understanding that only Geri and Emma took part in the creation of Headlines/Voodoo...and the others just kinda got to have credit under some agreement. I remember an interview from around that time with Victoria...where she made it sound like she just showed up in front of a mic...and she just sang what they gave her.

I rather hope in this series that Geri goes to meet a nice dominatrix who...lives on a mountain or whatever. That way, maybe we can finally hear that song she recorded a long while back about spankings. Certainly I can't be the only one who remembers this. It was so hot, she had to record it in her bra? Yeah. That I've gotta hear.

I guess I'm a few days late on this, but I finally watched that 30 minute Instagram live (...which is now on a guy's Youtube). It's so odd that even after a 30-minute video, I'm still a bit unsure about what this is exactly...though I guess being mysterious is part of the intended rollout? Also. I took the Queen Speaks video to be a teaser of what's to come...but it's actually one of the 13 episodes? That's what I got from her Instagram live, anyway. So...are these just going to be little bite sized episodes? A few minutes each? Also...to hear her describe it, it sounds like the music will just be heard in the end credits of her videos. It'd be nice if the songs could at the very least get their own individual Youtube uploads? She handled the Live in a fairly odd way, really...constantly saying she's taking a look at her viewer questions...but rarely answering them. (her inspirations are...Tom Hanks and Octavia Spencer...?) If she were to honestly sit down and do questions and answers about her life and career like Mel C has done this year, I think I'd actually enjoy that. She's honestly lived a very interesting life. Granted, there are things I think she'd probably rather not discuss at this point...

I guess I'm a bit naive on how all this works. But since this is the rehearsals...the shocked crowd reaction was already built into the track?

Random longtime fan observation... Did you notice that the music toward the end of her The Queen Speaks video is the same as the music she used to open her 2004 GAY show? It's a very famous piece of music. I can't remember the name off the top of my head. But very recognizable. Could possibly be coincidence. But I'd kinda like to think Geri was involved enough in both projects for her to pop up and say..."USE THIS!"

I guess I don't have the full story on the IYWHSF video. I don't live in the UK. But I used to belong to some UK pop forums back then...and I remember people claiming the video got a little play on TV. I assumed Virgin commissioned it for a little extra album push. I'm fairly sure it showed up not long after the album release. I actually don't remember whether it was on their old official site or not. I remember a few of that site's iterations...and there were certainly times it offered better content than other times. I remember watching the entire Earls Court concert song-by-song on their site in late 1999. By the time Forever rolled around, the redesign was pretty bare bones as I remember it. I just remember you being able to look at a few pictures from that era (all better than the actual album art)...and maybe the Holler and Let Leave Lead the Way videos?