Piers

Yeah. The ad-libs are perfection on Holler. I think they're mostly perfection on Tell Me Why and Let Lead the Way (except for the Mel B ad-libs on the album version of the latter). But I think they're overdone on tracks 4-8...though I do like most of those songs overall. I think Darkchild was used to working with r'n'b acts who did a lot of ad-libbing...and it didn't come as naturally for the girls. I think Emma equips herself the best. But Victoria in particular sometimes sounds awkward to me...just repeating little phrases. If I had the ability to audio edit the album, I feel like I'd trim some ad-libs out here and there. The Darkchild 2000 stuff also becomes practically parody after a while for me. I thought it sounded cool on Holler...I think *some* of it is cute on Get Down With Me (hey Scary, ya ready?). But he overstays his welcome, and it was absurd when he showed up in Weekend Love. What's also odd is Rodney Jerkins did interviews talking about how he wanted to do songs with the group that would play well live. Yet...I've no clue how they would have done Get Down With Me or Wasting My Time live...as both are so heavy on Emma doing a solo...overlapped with Emma doing ad-libs...or a Mel C solo...overlapped with Mel C ad-libs.

Oh gosh. Can you imagine...that lovely chorus overlapped with a ton of unnecessary ad-libs...and Rodney Jerkins wistfully whispering "Darkchild 2000" over the track?

I think it's 'fine' in the same way I think One of These Girls is 'fine'. I don't have major opinions on either and wouldn't say much to defend them. Neither would make my top 30 Spice Girls tracks. I do like Voodoo a few light years better than Times Goes By, though.

Oxygen seems to be a major divider among fans (seems to come down to that water drop)...but I've always found it to be gorgeous. To me, it sounds like a Spice Girls classic. Another track that deserved far better. I like it even better Let Love Lead the Way.

I find that Jam n' Lewis often did super long album songs. It's true of a lot of Janet Jackson's big hits. Even Mel B's Feels So Good is overlong on the album. That one got trimmed up pretty perfectly for the radio edit...and I think the same could easily have been done for If You Wanna Have Some Fun. I love this one. It's easily my next favorite on the album after Holler and Goodbye.

So. Between their three studio albums AND their Greatest Hits, Time Goes by is the only group song I don't like. Didn't like it on first listen. It's never grown on me. The opening keyboard sounds like some church youth group talent show. I never think the song sounds especially genuine (something the group does so effortlessly in all their other ballads). There are some nice enough vocals here and there...but a lot of the ad-libs sound awkward to me...and I think Mel C's vocals starting at about 3:40 are the least flattering she sounds on literally any Spice Girls track. It was always interesting to me that Mel C loved this one so much. Even when she was completely over being in the group, she still wanted this thing to be a single...and later admitted to not liking the incomparably superior If You Wanna Have Some Fun.

I basically like the album version of Right Back At Ya...but the Earls Court version and the leaked demo sound like a far more natural fit to me. On the album, the revisions to the way the verses are sung (mainly Victoria's) have always just sounded off to me. I'm also irrationally irked by Emma's ad-libs being the exact same the first two times we hear the full chorus. On the flip side...I find the leaked demo to be perfection. I think Darkchild's better off handling production duties for songs he also wrote...so it's in his style from the get-go.

I don't have any special insight...but this does sound pretty right to me. I've wondered if we didn't get releasable recordings of the Return of the Spice Girls tour because of Victoria and Geri's lack of performing confidence...and then didn't get the 2019 tour recorded because of just Geri. The girls always try to play off the lack of recordings as a "oh, we just didn't get around to it!" But. Realistically. Performing at Wembley Stadium...I'm sure it crossed a few minds to record that big a moment. In terms of Geri's spark...I think it kinda came and went with the most recent tour. She seemed to be having a blast in every performance of Never Give Up on the Good Times I saw. On the flip side, she seemed to be sleepily going through the motions on early performances in the show like Spice Up Your Life and Who Do You Think You Are. It's only accentuated by the fact the other three girls are in such fine form and giving their performances 100%. To be fair, I've seen that sleepy thing with Geri on occasion throughout her career. It's in her Ride It performance at GAY. It's in her Scream if You Wanna Go Faster USO performance in Oman. My guess is she thinks she's playing a role...making things dramatic with the slow movements...though it actually comes off as though she's disinterested. It wouldn't *seem* to be an unfixable problem. Just...don't do that slow motion thing? To her credit, I thought she sounded good vocally on every recording of the 2019 tour I heard.

I think this is probably true. Mels B and C had such different ways they spoke about their solo music at the time Forever was released. In late 2000, I remember Mel C saying she was more proud of Northern Star than Forever...which is a completely understandable perspective. But. When you're talking about the work of a lot of people...that a record label spent a lot of money to produce...it probably isn't the best thing to blurt out unprovoked when the group album has JUST been released. On the flip side, Mel B readily admitted Forever was better than Hot in 2000. I noticed Mel C brought up the This Time era being disrupted by the Return of the Spice Girls tour in one of her recent Q and As. I think she said something about her European record label being upset about it or something. I mean. The album wasn't doing so hot even before the tour announcement was made. I guess one could say her solo work got overshadowed by the tour. But you'd think the increased profile could have possibly helped her? I'm not sure the Carolyna and This Time singles were destined to set the charts on fire no matter when they were released...

I've wondered before if how much the girls wrote of their solo work...is a good indicator of how much they contributed to the group writing. If I'm not mistaken, Geri co-wrote everything of her own except her few covers. Mel C and Emma have co-written the vast majority of their original material outside the covers (and Mel C, of course, would have written the most material overall). If I'm remembering correctly, Victoria co-wrote all but three or four songs off her debut. And it's been a long time since I saw the credits for her second album sessions...but I'm pretty sure she co-wrote quite a lot of her pop material...including My Love Is For Real, Generate the Flow, Should Have Known Better, I'd Give It All Away, and Be With You. Don't quote me on that. But I'm pretty sure that's what I saw. Meanwhile, I don't think she co-wrote any of the Damon Dash stuff. Anyway. To be totally fair to Mel B, she clearly had a moody collaborator in Teddy Riley and...while I don't know all that went on there...I don't know if them writing together was on the table. And what was she supposed to do? Turn down Teddy Riley songs? The guy wrote and produced some of the biggest hits of the 90s...including Michael Jackson classics. Also. Uh. With the exception of Today, Mel had a writing credit on the rest of LA State of Mind. Maybe not the best example...

I think this might be the first time I've seen someone compliment Feel Me Now. I might be too harsh on that one. Even though I just ranked it low, when I'm talking about songs that could have been handed to literally any r'n'b singer...I'm more referring to the three Teddy Riley tracks and Hell No. I think the main little bit "and I could have had anyone...but you're the one..." is actually really pretty. Even though it reminds me a lot of slow jam Janet, I do think Jam n' Lewis made a genuine attempt to give Mel songs that played to her vocal abilities. It's not a Teddy Riley situation...where he insulted her singing ability after handing her songs that weren't right for her...and then just had background singers do a lot of heavy lifting (the session singers are a bit too present for me on the two Sisqo tracks too). Plus...she probably needed to have a song referencing her legendary...libido. Lol. If I'm remembering this correctly, only Feels So Good, Tell Me, Lullaby, and Feel Me Now actually have Mel's writing credits on them. I'm sure an album with her better collaborators...with all tracks co-written with her...would have made a much different, better album. Y'know. If she could be coaxed into sitting down and concentrating for that long...

That may be true. It's rough, though...because they were the top selling act in America in 1997...and their first two albums sold well all through 1998 and even into 1999. It's hard to even imagine this sort of drop in modern terms. Could we even picture, say, Billie Eilish (who just had a big year) having her next album arrive at #39 on the chart? And even that's not a totally accurate comparison as Eilish doesn't have the level of cultural impact the Spices did in the 90s... Those Emma/Victoria appearances were a somewhat bizarre thing too. They had very few appearances they could make in such a short time...so they end up on The Daily Show? An American political talk show? It...wasn't exactly the crowd that was going to buy a Spice Girls album. It didn't exactly help that Victoria told host Jon Stewart he wasn't funny...and the conversation devolved into a debate as to what is and isn't comedy. Anyway. I think we could all write a book on all the ways Forever went sideways. But. One more thing I wanted to bring up... Did anyone else find the album booklet with lyrics super weird? It was, like...stapled together...but you didn't flip through it like a little book. You had to turn it to where it was...up and down. That's how my copy was, anyway. I haven't gone through it in ages...but I seem to remember Emma and Victoria looking...sunburned...or something...

The album's all over the place...and I love that about it. Critics are always calling for cohesion for an album. But. Honestly, Northern Star seems to encapsulate who Mel was at that time. Aren't we all inspired by many types of music? Why limit yourself when expressing who you are? Few thoughts. Despite the...surprising...new look and sound, I've always liked Goin Down, even from first listen. I don't really think it was the best song to launch the album, though. If she wanted to go rock, I think both Go! and Gaga are more obviously radio friendly (though I realize the latter had already appeared on a big movie soundtrack). I get she probably wanted to arrive in the boldest way possible. But...like I said about Mel B's debut, I'm not sure a lot of the girls' attempts to be edgy paid off. I've always found the song Northern Star to be gorgeous. It was my favorite song from this era on first listen...though the remix of I Turn To You is so epic, I can't really choose between the two now. I don't hate it...but If That Were Me is my clear least favorite song on the album...which made it even odder for me when it got picked as a single. (though I get it was for a good cause) Even the b-sides and unreleased material from this era is really, really good. In fact, I think Follow Me, Something's Gonna Happen, and Independence Day were probably too good to be left off the album. She opened her earliest shows with Something's Gonna Happen...so she had to know it was quite good. I like those three tracks better than probably all but three or four songs on Reason.

Anyway. Ranking the album, I'd probably go... 1. I Want You Back - Tell Me - Feels So Good (yeah, I'm giving them a three-way tie...so what...) 4. Step Inside 5. Hotter 6. Lullaby 7. Pack Your Shit 8. I Believe 9. Hell No 10. Feel Me Now 11. ABC123 Few thoughts. I think Hotter was the most obvious single after Feels So Good...but while I think it would chart better than Lullaby, I don't think it'd be the album savior some believe it would have been. I don't think it's as good as Tell Me or Feels So Good, and it'd need a punchier single mix. Sisqo fell out with Mel over her changing his songs' productions. So. Would be curious to hear his vision for the song... Never really cared for most of Janet Jackson's meandering seductive songs...and that's exactly what Feel Me Now is to me. I Believe in itself is an okay song...but it drags for waaay too long and is strangely redundant. It should have a minute to 90 seconds shaved off. Out of all the songs on the girls' debut albums, I think ABC123 is the most generic, most anonymous. Generic is a problem for about half of Hot. Mel's personality was so distinct and bold, she shouldn't have been saddled with several songs that could have been handed to literally any random r'n'b singer. In a certain way, I do think Hot represents Mel honestly. There's an effortless brilliance to some tracks...but they're weighed down with subpar material that came from rushed sessions and an artist who didn't have the patience to perfect the work. "Oh, hurry up. Release it, then."

I've wondered how much Pack Your Shit ended up hurting the album...by getting it slapped with a Parental Advisory sticker. To me...that may have hurt it even more than the bikini cover. Granted, unleashing it weeks before Forever was the #1 problem. But at the same time...Mel's fanbase was still fairly young. It was only a year earlier people were clutching their pearls over Mel C saying 'whore' and 'bitch' on Goin Down. Mel B's like...hold my beer. Granted, Mel was a grown woman. But I think you kind of have to understand your fanbase. I'm not sure being especially edgy ever paid off in a major way for any of the girls. It's not that I'm offended by the song. But I do find its language to be a bit jarring in the context of the album. Nothing before it on Hot is in the same stratosphere. I remember Mel claiming she was considering it for a single release in America, though. Dear...

To be totally honest, though, Virgin does share in *some* of the blame. If I remember correctly, the Holler video debuted in America about two weeks AFTER the album had already crashed and burned on the chart. The album's poor showing gave MTV/VH1/radio no incentive to even give the song/video a fighting chance. How many people at Virgin had to be asleep behind the wheel to let THAT happen? Though. Of course. It is more the girls' fault. They spent all this money, time, and resources developing an album targeted at the American market...and then just dumped it in the US...with no video proceeding it...without a single performance...without so much as a single appearance from the full group even speaking about it. Holler wasn't actually even released as a physical single in America...an odd move considering Spice Up Your Life, Too Much, Stop, and Goodbye managed to climb into the top 20 because of physical single sales. Anyway. It's all 20 years ago now. But. Totally honest. I'm hard pressed to think of another act on their level in the 20 years since who dropped the ball *this much* on an album release.

What Jay said basically sums up what I think of it. I think most of it's a fairly solid pop album. It's just weighed down by two covers and two 'eh' songs in Been There, Done That and She Was a Friend of Mine. Choosing We're Not Gonna Sleep Tonight as a single was a curious thing. The song's fine...but I'd have picked four other songs to be the third single ahead of We're Not Gonna Sleep Tonight. "Seventh or eighth best song on the album!" isn't my most glowing review. I get that her team might have thought they could tap into a little Spice Girls nostalgia with it. Honestly, the song might have managed a bit more attention by simply including some of her real life celeb gal pals in it. I mean. Sure, at that time, Mel C would rather have a truck run over her foot than participate in that. But maybe the video could have featured Mel B, the Appleton sisters, and Dido with Em...having a night out? (okay, I know that last one sounds a bit like a stretch, but she WAS very complimentary of the album when it came out) Beyonce did something like that in the Get Me Bodied video. Anyway. To me, the obvious single run was always What Took You So Long - Take My Breath Away - Better Be Careful - High On Love. High On Love, in particular, I was expecting to get a release...as Emma consistently said it was her favorite off the album.

^ For some reason, I was under the impression they were under a five album deal from the get-go. I'm not sure where I heard that now. So. Take that with a grain of salt. But if my understanding of such things is correct, the contract wouldn't so much require them to release all the albums...as much as it prevents them to release music under another label until the contract is met. And, yes...I agree with schizo_spice's take, the single releases probably weren't required under the contract. I'm not sure labels *expect* their artists to spend ages recording an album only to immediately lose interest and abandon it two weeks after release. Anyway. I would be curious what the Virgin top brass made of all this. They'd just paid for some of the top producers in the world to do the album...top directors to handle the videos...a top photographer to do the album art (not saying he did a good job, just saying he was high profile) and the group just dumps it? Virgin had some big names at the time...but my guess would be the girls, Janet Jackson, and Mariah Carey would have been considered their biggest acts as of 2000. The label couldn't have been happy.

I didn't know about that! I had to look up the video on Youtube. Literally every time I've seen Westlife, they've been sitting on barstools. So. I look up the video. And sure enough. There they are. Singing Spice Up Your Life...sitting on those bar stools. I remember that Westlife quote Jay mentioned. From what I recall, the members made that remark about Holler, Let Love Lead the Way, and Oxygen being the only decent songs from Forever more than once. I always found this to be a weirdly specific comment. If you can acknowledge those three are decent songs...can't you also recognize that *at least* Tell Me Why and If You Wanna Have Some Fun are about as good? Whatever. And that comment about the girls sliming them is delusional. Westlife 100% provoked the problems, and the girls never hit back as hard. Like I said. My knowledge of Westlife is fairly limited. But. From what I've seen...uh...I don't think I get it. To me, the covers I've heard are strangely old fashioned for the early 2000s. I mean. Their cover of Mandy made it to #1? Not to offend people who are fans. But. Um. Do people just think they're that cute...or....? Anyway. I'll just say this. The one good thing about Westlife for me is they did tend to bring out the best of Mel C. She could be negative about the group and the other girls' solo careers for several years...but as soon as Westlife got brought up, she was back on Team Spice.

There were moments Mel criticized other artists during this time...that I didn't think she came off well. But this appearance with Louis Walsh isn't one of those moments. Sorry. She was right this time. And some of the guys of Westlife (and their team) started the fight here during the chart battle with Forever. They were openly antagonistic about the girls and their album...threatening to move their own album release if the girls did. They even said at the time they wanted to go head to head with a single release too. So. As far as I'm concerned, Mel has the green light to be honest about Westlife. Westlife never made a ripple here in America, so I can't weigh in much on the group. I will say I have to kinda respect any group that manages to have the longevity they did. However. It's honestly stunning how many cover songs they released. And Louis? You know he lost the argument when he said something about the Spice Girls lacking personality. Yeah, okay, Louis.

Side note. I realize Mel C is just the most likely to do these videos. But I've really liked them...and...kinda wish one of the other girls would do one too. I mean. I realize Victoria would rather stub a toe than acknowledge she once had a solo music career. It could be fun seeing stately lady of the manor Geri have to describe the writing process of Shake Your Bootie Cutie. I wonder if Mel B even remembers the album she made by the fridge or whatever...though maybe she can blurt out some insight into why her relationships with producers Sisqo and Teddy Riley went south. But no doubt, the best would be Emma...with her famously terrible memory. Would be a fun listen...where she'd likely tell us her favorite song from her first album is Maybe...and if she could go back and release an album track as a single, it'd be Free Me.

To me, On The Horizon always sounded a lot like Game Of Love by Santana and Michelle Branch. Same timeframe. Same collaborators. I even wondered if they knew how much the songs sounded alike...and had hopes for one with the US audience, the other for the UK audience. Game of Love actually was a pretty big hit in America. Anyway. For me, On The Horizon does sound like a Melanie C song. It fits perfectly on Reason. Northern Star had already established she was willing to release an album of moody and angry songs...alongside big bursts of positivity. I don't totally follow why she doesn't think it was her. Because it sounds commercial? I genuinely think Reason would be a lesser album without it. I think it boils down to...the song Reason was her top choice for a single...and when On The Horizon underperformed, she can blame the label. sammy01 mentioned her attitude wasn't the best during this time...and I actually do think that has something to do with it. She wasn't always positive about the Spice Girls' music during this time...and she was even more harsh about her former bandmates' solo stuff. She was also quick to criticize other pop groups. And everyone she was criticizing...would have likely had the same fans as Mel. I think it was an alienating time. Anyway. Could Reason have done better as a single? I don't especially think so, though I do think it's an excellent song that deserved to be a single. Had it taken off, I could see it being something other musicians would cover. I can definitely imagine it being used to audition for various Idol/X Factor-type shows.

Just finished watching Mel's latest chat. I've really been enjoying these. It's interesting to hear her discuss her music and career. I notice how she seemingly continues to view On The Horizon as her greatest career mistake. It's the one she mentions most consistently, anyway. I guess that song gets an unfair share of blame just becomes it marks the moment her career truly took a downturn. In reality, though...Reason flat-out didn't have anything on the level of Northern Star, Never Be the Same Again, or I Turn To You. Out of what she had...I've always felt On the Horizon was an obvious single choice. I think her label was right. Personally...I had all of zero interest in Here It Comes Again when it was released. I found it dull at the time (though my opinion's changed over the years). Back then...it was On the Horizon that kinda won me back over and made me listen to the album. But. Anyway. I do like Reason (the song) as well. It's lovely. If anything, she should have made that the other half of the double single with Yeh Yeh Yeh. Being injured at the time, Mel could have taken the opportunity to show off her vocals with Reason. Maybe that way we wouldn't have ended up with that Melt video that looks like a wedding DVD menu.

That Spice News page was a nice walk down memory lane. I remember checking that page pretty much every day for something new. It's actually quite interesting how often Mel C talked about touring Forever. Videos from behind-the-scenes of Holler and Let Love Lead the Way show she was already very over being there by that point. Yet...she continued talking about her hopes for a group tour through September? On the WOMAN front, I think the pop tracks were still in the mix later than most think. My guess is they were dumped around the time they suddenly had to record Wasting My Time and re-record Right Back At Ya. What was that? July? August? I remember one of them (maybe Mel B?) saying something about how they suddenly realized the album wasn't finished really late in the game. I also remember reading from someone that the Darkchild team took a crack at WOMAN but they just couldn't bend it to their style. Can't remember where I heard that, though. Anyway. I like the live recording of WOMAN just fine...but I think the song's more a symbol than anything. We got a third album that's not bad...but wasn't what the fanbase necessarily expected, and the group abandoned it immediately after years of anticipation. WOMAN is more than an unreleased track. It's the great "what could have been". That's how I perceive it, anyway. And I don't care what anyone says. I like the g-string line.

My favorite shoot of them from the Forever era came from a magazine, I believe. It's been so long, I can't remember which magazine. But someone in here will know. Mels B and C have long hair. Emma's wearing shades. Victoria's in a white lace dress. I think they were against a kinda beige background. To me... it's the photoshoot from that time that best captures the vibe of Forever. Maybe a decent album cover could be pulled from those images? Would that be asking too much? Probably. I don't know that Forever was ever a beloved enough property for major changes and a redesign to happen now. I doubt anyone but the most die-hard fans even know that's Terry Richardson's work on Forever. But if a change did happen...my guess is they'd probably just reuse the Goodbye single cover. I know it's not exactly the right era. But it's probably the single most famous image of the four piece.