Piers

Because most pop stars today are (thankfully) openly supportive of the gay community, it's easy to forget how different the world was in 1996/97/98. A sort of casual homophobia really was the mainstream. This interview is years before some particular Eminem songs and videos, after all. You could say the Spices' support was playing to their fanbase...but in all honesty, it was riskier for them commercially to keep referencing their gay fans than to do what most of their contemporaries did...avoid the subject. And the Spices did voice their support for the gay community even when they weren't prompted. I'm also a Madonna fan, and this isn't meant as a dig at her...but her support of the gay community was always kinda in-your-face and abrasive. It was intentionally confrontational...and perhaps the world needed that. She's a trailblazer, after all. But I also appreciate the Spices' approach...which I think is closer to how Dolly Parton handled the subject. What they did was just welcoming...and took on homophobia with humor, mocking it.

I guess there was one attempt at controversy with Desire, now that I think of it. Weren't there two cuts of the video? Wasn't the uncut version where she licked the dude's face or something? It all seems so...quaint...by 2024 standards...

I've always liked Desire...but I would say there's a pretty distinct lack of punch for an album launching single. Every other album launching single Geri was connected with (group and solo) kinda came flying out the gate and commanded attention...both the song and the video. Desire, I think, does sound like a single...just not the album launcher. What was there to grab attention? It does give Geri a somewhat modernized sound...but she was always genre-hopping anyway. I wouldn't call it a bold new direction. And the video taking inspiration from Catwoman is a bit of a head scratcher...as that was probably the previous year's most notorious flop. Now, all that said, it was clearly the media blackout that was most responsible for Desire's failure. But it is interesting to me that given the focus and drive Geri brought to her previous album launching singles...Passion's launch was so...comparitively subtle?

In regards to M's constant lateness for shows...I've chatted about it to two people I know in the touring biz (one who worked on several of M's post-2000 tours...another who hasn't done one of her tours but has general connections to M's world). Both independently told me the reason M is hours late for her concerts is that she insists that her mic checks include her entire show. They both said it...so...I kinda feel like there's something to it. I can't say that totally makes sense to me. The only time I've seen M live was the Rebel Heart tour. She was two and a half hours late that night. I was sitting in the crowd those entire two and a half hours...with seemingly nothing happening on stage during that stretch. Does it just take that long for the production to reset? Does M have a routine she goes through to get the energy back after doing a full show's worth of mic checks? Question. At what point did M's lateness for shows become a thing? Certainly it's not something she's done throughout her career. She's only performed in my city once (we were one of the cancelled dates for Celebration)...and her lateness for that Rebel Heart show remains kinda infamous.

^ Ha! How funny. Honestly, I guess I kinda expected Geri to know the song just because it does so well with the group's streaming numbers around this time every year. At least, I'd figure Geri would have more reason to know Christmas Wrapping over anything off Forever, bar the singles she's performed on tour herself. Geri definitely paid attention to all things sales and chart positions once upon a time...but I guess that doesn't necessarily extend to streaming. I'd just figure she'd have looked on Most Played lists before now and seen that title before.

^ Speaking of their 1999 Christmas tour. I wish at some point over the years, their team had released a version of that live Christmas medley to try to get in seasonal playlists and radio play. The full (nearly) eight minute version would have never become a playlist staple. But I'd like to think a four minute cut of the best bits could become a holiday favorite. Just trim out the repetitive sections...Mel B's solo where she forgets the words...and Mel C's solo where she's clearly just goofin' around. Both solos are funny in the context of the concert...but wouldn't play as well in playlists/radio. Admittedly, the audio for that show isn't the best they ever recorded...but...I dunno...would it have been impossible to clean it up a bit? Release it along with a cut of their concert performance...which really does showcase the sort of joy the group carried when they were at their best. Anyway. I realize at no point was their team ever going to do any of that. I'm just saying that for me...those two songs merged the spirit of the holiday and the Spice Girls better than Christmas Wrapping...and certainly better than Sleigh Ride.

This study is actually a really nice surprise as I mostly thought the Spices/their team had really dropped the ball in maintaining their legacy in the states. It's pretty rare that I catch Spice songs anywhere...even Wannabe. I work with some people in their early 20s...and they chime in on 'old music' (...oof) every once in a while. The Spice Girls have come up before...which, in itself, is a good thing. Granted, this is a pretty isolated sampling of a few dozen people in one work place...but what I found from this specific group was that they were aware of a group named the Spice Girls...and that they had nicknames...and one of them is married to David Beckham. They were unaware that one of them famously left the group. Most of them know Wannabe (though they wouldn't have known it by that title)...and two of them made the argument that the group was also behind Girls Just Wanna Have Fun. They definitely knew a lot more about the Backstreet Boys, Britney, and NSYNC...which have become synonymous in the US with retro 90s music. But really, the machine never stopped working for those acts. At no point did Baby One More Time, Bye Bye Bye, and I Want It That Way ever fade from the US public consciousness. The songs are always being used in one way or another...ads, TikToks...whatever's keeping music relevant at the moment, those songs are there. It's a weird thing that the Spices were at their peak so shortly before these other acts picked up their torch...and yet the perception seems to be that the Spices came about a decade earlier than these other acts did. But. All that said. It could be a regional thing? The US is big. Maybe the Spices continue to get more attention in places and online spaces that I just don't see? Of course, I trust this study way more than my little workplace sampling.

I can't speak to this specific interview...but my experience with similar situations is this; A production company will get hired to be the permanent camera/audio/lighting people for the day. Then, interviewers from different news organizations/entertainment shows come in...and are given a few minutes each with the actor/singer/whoever. Those shows don't bring their own crews in these cases. It's technically quicker because there's no constant setting up and breaking down of gear...and plus, it guarantees that the actor/singer is happy with the lighting and audio quality. So, the interviewer is legitimately there talking to the actor/singer (in the cases I've witnessed)...and then the day's hired production company just hands the interviewer a hard drive of the footage at the end. The hard drives would often have two long clips. One long clip from the camera on the actor/singer...and another long clip from a second camera just focused on the interviewer. Then, you just edit em together how you want. Back in 2000, I'm guessing they were handing interviewers two tapes. As to the Spices doing split interviews...I think it was the EMAs that year that they said they'd started splitting up to do interviews cause they could get more interviews done in less time. Of course, that was a terrible strategy that showed a lack of unity. But. Then, that was the era Mel C was acting like she was completing community service requirements by having to do anything Spice Girls related. So...

On the subject of If Ya Do... I've heard that song title since the original third album rumors were around. But. I'm still not convinced it's a real song. To me, there are two strikes against it. 1. I'm convinced the fan sites of the time were full of made-up quotes. Did Emma really talk about a song called If Ya Do? Do we have links to legit articles where this was said...or are we having to rely on iffy fan sites at this point? 2. Let's say the Emma quote is real. She really did say she loves a song called If Ya Do. I kinda lean toward Emma's famously bad memory being at play. What if the song she meant to reference was If You Wanna Have Some Fun? Are we to believe that Jam and Lewis did three songs with the Spice Girls and two of them have titles that start with "If Ya/You". It still wouldn't be her worst memory flub... Because Forever had a last minute scramble to get Wasting My Time and the reworked Right Back At Ya recorded, I'm kinda of the belief that the album was already using everything the American producers had given them. The one thing I'm 100% convinced of is that if the song exists, Janet Jackson is not on it. If Janet had recorded with the girls in that era, it would have been a huge story...not something relegated to a reference on some obscure fan site. I love Janet Jackson...but her choice in collaborators in that era were usually edgier artists than herself...seemingly helping her along in her musical evolution. I don't think a Spice Girls collab would have made sense for Janet (though I would have loved it). In her solo career interviews (and there is still video of this), Emma says she'd like to someday work with Janet...which would imply there hasn't been a previous working relationship.

I don't remember the specific interview, but I'm pretty sure it was during the Reason promo. Mel was asked to reflect on Forever. She said the album had beautiful ballads, but she didn't like all of the material on the album...and she listed If You Wanna Have Some Fun as her example.

I certainly don't know everything from behind the scenes...but...I've long been under the belief that a lot of what the fan sites were reporting in 1999/2000 was made up. I was checking the fan sites daily in that time. I was a kid...and it was an earlier time for the internet, so perhaps I was pretty naive. But I did believe the fan sites had real scoops. They had me convinced in the spring of 1999 that a new Spice Girls album was going to drop any week...an album to be called The Great Divide. I was kinda floored to learn that summer that the 3rd album recording sessions hadn't even happened yet. Anyway. Those Melanie C quotes about a new album being completed in spring 1999 are a fairly odd thing. But. The fan sites were often run by teens. Were they all above making up the occasional quote? Could they have been taking news from unscrupulous tabloids? I can't find anything on the existence of an LA Frontier newspaper, for example. I do remember it just being a wild time for rumors.

Going back to an earlier convo...I've always wondered what other track they could possibly be referring to that they were considering to launch the album. Holler is the obvious choice...as the best of the Darkchild material...and the song that'd make the strongest statement about their new musical direction. Right Back At Ya, I guess, would have made sense as a comeback song...but the pop version (if they were still using it at the time) wouldn't have grabbed attention like Holler...and the r'n'b version is flat-out not good enough to be the lead single. Now, midway through 2000, the Spice fan sites were claiming Let Love Lead The Way alone was the comeback single. Was that ever actually true? Granted, that's a song the girls always seemed to appreciate more deeply than the fanbase. But there again, it's no match for Holler... So. Here's how I see it. With the version of Forever we got, I can't imagine the girls/Virgin/whoever deciding on any lead but Holler. However. I do believe they could have considered a different lead when the Biffco/Elliot Kennedy tracks were still in play. Even though we've got some bits and pieces, we really don't know the true strength of the Biffco songs. And if the album was to feature more pop AND r'n'b sounds...could If You Wanna Have Some Fun have been in consideration for the lead...just because it's kinda at the midway point of the pop and r'n'b sides of the group? But then, Mel C doesn't like that song for whatever reason...sooo... Anyway. There's a whole lot of speculation from me...based on knowing absolutely nothing on what was happening behind the scenes....

I mean. It's not a big deal...but with Geri and Emma not taking part in the Holler dance battle, I probably would have preferred they just stand in superwoman poses for that section. I know it's just meant to be a quirky little moment...but with the Mels doing the most rigorous choreography of the whole show, I'd rather the other two not do anything distracting. I just imagine the audience thinking..."Wow, the Mels are on fire-wait...uh...are Geri and Emma sipping tea right now...?...no, really...are they...sipping tea?..." I've got no idea how the tea idea came about...but my guess is someone at rehearsals said..."and what will Geri and Emma do during the dance break?" "Oh, we'll just have a spot of tea!" *everyone laughs* And then it somehow made it into the show.

I definitely don't know enough about Telstar to say exactly how many people share the blame for its collapse. Their Wikipedia page mostly blames Victoria. I do think it seems plausible that Victoria would be largely responsible. She'd recorded two full albums worth of unreleased material...and was perhaps even heading toward a third collection of songs starting with My Love Is For Real. All of these (30 or so?) songs were done with big name collaborators. Furthermore, the Damon Dash tracks that did get a release sampled famous songs...namely This Groove and Resentment...(and, I think, That Dude samples something too). I don't know all the workings of a record company, but I'm assuming this was all getting expensive for them...without an actual album on the market. I'm not trying to be overly negative on her. I firmly believe VB's unreleased Open Your Eyes material is the best stuff she ever did. I think her unreleased Come Together material is the worst she did, but we'll focus on the positive. All I know is 2003 must have been wild for Telstar. Here's Victoria...back with reliable collaborator, Richard Stannard. They've developed a new sound for the album. There's great dance tracks...beautiful ballads. She's never sounded better. And then she trashes it all, wants to start over, and shows up with It's That Simple one day and wants to send THAT to radio.

So. About this. It's been nearly 20 years since all of this happened, so it's possible my memory is rusty...but I really don't remember the press noticing that Victoria had perhaps recorded a song admitting the David affair. It's possible the timing was just off for that. I believe that song quietly landed on the Real Beckhams DVD early in 2004...and it was later...in that spring that the Rebecca Loos story emerged. The affair allegedly happened in 2003, so it's possible Victoria had channeled her emotions into that song. Granted, Victoria did not write that track...but it did seem the lyrics were somewhat tailored to her. The Jazmine Sullivan version of the song is nearly identical lyrically...but it doesn't have the "mistress" and "rolling with you for five years" lyrics. I think the Beckhams always denied the Rebecca Loos story, so you'd think the press could have had a field day with that song. I do remember Victoria getting criticism for releasing the songs on a DVD...and some articles claiming that the release was a retreat from putting out a traditional release. But my guess is none of those writers actually listened to the songs. Perhaps for the best. While I think Resentment is excellent and actually single-worthy...That Dude and Valentine's Day should have never seen the light of day.

^ Last thought on this. Beyond V recording a TON of songs with known producers who would have fees, I've wondered to what extent Damon Dash's use of song samples could have spelled trouble for Telstar. A lot of those tracks he did for her use famous song samples...and two of those samples (the Beatles' Come Together and George Michael's Freedom) are from HUGE tracks.

Thanks for sharing this. Watched the whole thing. It starts on an overly negative note by initially dismissing Victoria's unreleased music...but as the video progressed, I think it's a lot more fair about what was good and bad in that material. What I've never understood with V's second album era is why there was such a hard-lined divide between the pop album material and the Damon Dash material. Why did she and her team believe they could only go in one direction or the other? Frankly, the fanbase itself often confuses which songs are from which sessions. I mean, yeah, Be With You is clearly straight from the pop album and It's That Simple is clearly straight from hell...but the better material, I think, slots together well enough. To me, the obvious thing to do would be to take the best of the Damon Dash material (This Groove, Resentment, So Cold)...pair it with the best pop album material (Should Have Known Better, Be With You, Full Stop, Flow, I'd Give It All Away, etc.)...add My Love Is For Real and boom. You'd have an album that not only towers over V's debut...but, I'd argue, would probably be the second best solo Spice album of the 2000-2010 decade behind Emma's Free Me. Given that Emma was a few years ahead of the curve with Free Me's sound, V's potential album might have been the most commercial solo Spice album of that decade. Now. Would it have gone that way? Would she have used her best stuff? There was enough bad material recorded that it could have been a disaster. Victoria is an intelligent person...which makes It's That Simple all the more baffling. Beyond that, Damon Dash tracks like That Dude and Take You There sound designed to use her voice in the most unflattering way possible. But then, Victoria always seemed to have a fascination with American music producers...which maybe clouded her judgement?

What's somewhat interesting is if I'd heard there'd be a Sam Smith/Madonna collab just a few years ago...I'd be expecting a very different song. But in 2023? As soon as I heard they'd be working together, I knew exactly what this would be. It's like I could just hear the chaos in my mind...and now that it's here...it brings no surprises. I don't find it offensive or anything. It's just...M used to be so good at pushing the envelope while also crafting a brilliant song. Now? Any sense of art is just gone. It's just...predictably crude. Nothing more. For me, this is easily her worst single in her 40+ year career. You're off the hook now, Hey You. I won't even try to understand how this song has seven writers...including true titans of the music industry. But. Whatever. Look, M brought the world a mountain of amazing music. Literally nothing she brings out now will make me less of a fan of all her great albums of the past...try as she might. I'm unlikely to ever totally give up on the prospect of her doing something great again. She was too good for too long for that. So. Onward, M. There's still that Max Martin stuff to look forward to. Hey, it can only go up...

My general feeling with their solo career single picks is that while I would make a few modifications, they generally *DID* release the one song on each album with the most commercial potential. To me, the major exceptions to this would be Victoria with I Wish (for the VB album) and Geri with Love Never Loved Me (for the Passion album). So. I guess my take is that they were hampered a lot more by their overlapping solo Spice album eras...than they were the actual single choices. But all that said, I do agree with a lot of the same picks that Mr. X and Spiceboy have made. I won't go through everything, but here's a few thoughts: Spice Girls - Forever 1. Goodbye 2. Holler 3. If You Wanna Have Some Fun/Oxygen I basically like Let Love Lead the Way, but I'd limit it to two ballads to represent the album as singles...and I just think Oxygen is stronger. It's also a fairly unique group ballad, I think...with it managing to be autobiographical from four different perspectives...even working in Victoria's child and Mel B's marital troubles. Melanie C - Northern Star 1. Go! 2. Northern Star 3. Never Be The Same Again 4. I Turn To You 5. Closer Either Go! or Gaga for the first single. I lean Go! just because William Orbit was such a hot producer at the time...and Gaga'd already been heard on a movie soundtrack. Melanie C - The Sea 1. Think About It 2. Stupid Game I feel like no one ever talks about Stupid Game, and I *love* that song. It's easily in my top ten Melanie C songs. I do think Think About It was her best shot at a hit on that album...and when that failed, nothing else was going to break through either. But I'd consider Stupid Game her second best bet. Melanie B - LA State of Mind 1. In Too Deep I mean. Nothing on this album was going to set the charts on fire...but to me, this song came the closest to being a mainstream pop track...and with a different production, could have *maybe* had some minor hit potential? Personally, I think it's far better than Today...which I find a bit meandering.

Based on the 1999 recordings, I feel the original plan for Forever would have given us an album similar to Britney Spears' 2001 Britney album. There's a mix of edgier material (Slave 4 U, Boys) and the pop she was more identified with (Anticipating). I think Britney shares something with Madonna and Janet Jackson...in that each of them handled the four albums after their breakthroughs extremely well. They all had a sort of gradual musical evolution. They got edgier over time, but it always felt natural. I think that careful evolution plays a big role in why the three of them outlasted a lot of their contemporaries who were just as talented. My guess is the Spices were faced with something of a conundrum. Based on what we've heard from leaks so far, Holler was the single strongest track they'd recorded for the project...and while all the other 1999 material gelled together well enough, Holler was an outlier. It's the clear choice for an album launcher...but none of the other 1999 material really carries its vibe. Hence...why they felt the need for the 2000 recordings. That's my guess anyway. The 2000 material is a mixed bag for me. I flat out don't like Time Goes By. The new Right Back At Ya is "fine", but it's clearly not as good as the pop version. I like Get Down With Me and Wasting My Time...but my opinions on them aren't as strong as most of this forum. I'd include them on the album but not release them as singles. Tell Me Why is the one I'm most conflicted about. I do think it's a good song...deserving of a single even. But. I don't know. Geri'd up and left them in the middle of a tour and caused them legal troubles. The rest of the girls had every right to feel salty about it. Buuut...if Goodbye is the group taking the high road, then Tell Me Why is the equivalent of the girls having a few too many drinks and saying "...but this is how we really feel." I don't love them singing about another woman's hopes and dreams not reaching their potential or whatever. I guess I just feel...it's a good song...but it's off brand for the Spice Girls.

The girls definitely took a break at probably the most inconvenient time in pop. I don't know if it was the same way everywhere in the world...but in the US, 1999 just felt like a major shift in pop music. Maybe the most dramatic shift in pop music all at once that I've seen. Britney, BSB, and NSYNC ascended to a whole other level of fame here...and they got a bigger media push in the US than I remember the Spices ever getting. Those three acts dominated...but a ton of similar acts also suddenly emerged. The Max Martin sound (or something that sounded a lot like it) was everywhere. While it would have been nice to get Forever in November of 1999, I do wonder if the girls even being absent for the first half of the year would have made it impossible for them to catch up. I remember thinking the Spices and Hanson (who'd dominated 1997...and whose popularity had carried through 1998) seemed like practically ancient history by mid-1999.

Think back to 1997/first half of 1998. What were your expectations of each of the girls' solo careers? Were your expectations anywhere close to what they ended up doing? Geri/Victoria - Honestly, I never expected solo albums out of them. It's not that I didn't like their voices. In fact, both of them often have my favorite parts of Spice songs. But with the way they were used in the group...I just didn't see either of them carrying an entire album. So. Both their solo ventures exceeded my expectations by miles. Out of Your Mind was probably the biggest surprise for me as I didn't expect Victoria to do anything that bold. As for Geri...I do have a bizarre memory. As a kid, the only song I pictured her singing was Fame (the one from the film/TV series of the same name). That was a truly odd thought as...the song is wrong for Geri, actually...and as it turned out, Geri would use the Fame film as a basis for the It's Raining Men video. Also. The first line of that song is "baby, *Look At Me*". Anyway. Hardly a premonition. But still weird. Mel C - In the early days, the uniqueness of Mel's voice kinda reminded me of Alanis Morissette...so I guessed Mel's solo output could be a little similar to Alanis' Jagged Little Pill album. So, when we first heard Gaga from Mel...I kinda figured that was, indeed, what we were getting. Now, I couldn't have guessed just how varied Mel's debut album (and career in general) would turn out to be. I do think moments of Mel's career have a slight kinship to Alanis. Goin Down doesn't sound like You Outta Know...but both are revenge songs that shed a previously more pop-y image. I'd also say Mel's Why has a similar vibe to Alanis' Uninvited. Mel B - I was kinda expecting something close to the lighter/most commercial songs by TLC. Mel could sing low and raspy like T Boz...and Mel could also rap and sing ballads. She just seemed like...one woman TLC to me? She carried some traits of all that group's members. I wasn't completely off. Hot has some of the same collaborators TLC used. I Want You Back sounds edgier than what I was expecting...but I'd also say that I loved Mel's first four singles, and they all surpassed my expectations (even if the album itself didn't) Emma - I was expecting very young sounding pop. A World Without You and the A Girl Like Me album track are very in line with what I was expecting. I figured her stuff would be good, but there's a maturity to the best of her work that I didn't expect. I didn't predict the more adult contemporary stuff like What Took You So Long...or that she'd create something as artful as the Free Me album.

Super random observation...but it appears they were referring to 2 Become 1 as "Two Become One" on this early version of the cassette.

Thanks for sharing this, Jay! I agree with all of you. I'm just glad to see her up and performing...in whatever way we can get that. I think this is by far her best appearance in this Masked Singer franchise. I think she was genuinely trying to stump the judges in the other performances...and she ended up being dull by hiding all the characteristics of her performance style. Here, she lets that natural charisma shine through. For me, this kinda continues a trend going for 20+ years in her solo endeavors where her material isn't 100% right for her voice...but she pulls this one off well enough. Oh. I don't speak the language, so I'm curious. Were the judges told this was one of the Spice Girls? It seems odd to me they'd just independently come up with Mel B, Geri, and Emma as their guesses.

There actually would have been a little precedence for the Spices going by their nicknames as solo artists...and that precedence is TLC. They released some solo stuff as "T-Boz" and as "Lisa Left Eye Lopes". It made some business sense. In the US in the late 90s, if I started talking about Rozonda Thomas and Tionne Watkins, no one would know who I was referring to. T-Boz and Chilli, though...they would. The Spice Girls had a similar situation in the US where they were far better known as their nicknames in the 90s. The inherent problem I see is unlike "T-Boz" and "Left Eye", the Spices' nicknames were somewhat limiting. How much of the girls' debut solo albums reflected their nicknames? I think you could say Victoria's was somewhat Posh Spice...and Geri's was somewhat Ginger Spice (though she quite obviously wasn't going to use that). But the others? I guess A World Without You/A Girl Like Me are a bit Baby Spice...and I Want You Back/Step Inside are a bit Scary Spice...but their albums as a whole were more reflective of their full character. For me, releasing What Took You So Long under the name Baby Spice seems...off. Releasing Goin Down under the name Sporty Spice seems...even more off.