Piers

All that said, I do actually think Some Girls would have been good for Geri. And I can pretty easily imagine Geri's voice (post-nodule surgery) singing it. I've always liked Ride It...but I think Some Girls would have made the bigger comeback for her. It would have been a more dynamic reinvention...especially coupled with a sleek video revealing the return of curvy Geri (as opposed to the 'look at this goofy thing my friends and I made!' that is the Ride It video). Assuming she'd let the cool, electronic vibe of the song stay...I do actually think she'd have a more successful third album era. Two last thoughts. 1. I've always found it odd that Geri clamored for an already-written track as she always seemed to be involved in the writing of her material (bar her few covers). None of her collaborators have ever disputed her deep involvement. Was this the only time that happened? 2. Richard X says in this podcast that he didn't want it to go to Geri for fear of it turning out something like Bag It Up. I don't exactly think *that* was in the cards. But I am somewhat curious if Geri would have tried to refashion the song into something bigger and dancier in the vein of her unreleased 100% Pure Love. I mean. Maybe not. I could see her pulling off the vibe of Some Girls as it is.

As the Richard X stuff goes...since he's the writer/producer of the song, I do understand why he'd have such an interest in who performs it. So he didn't view Geri as the right match...that's fair enough (even though he's been a bit more rude than necessary about it...) There is some hypocrisy I think has to be called out here. Richard X is sharing this story about some alleged diss track Geri wrote about him...making Geri sound like she's just ca-raaazy. That track is unreleased and unheard...and I guess no one would even know about it if it weren't for him bringing it up. Meanwhile, he's the one who actually wrote and *released* a diss track about Geri. So...

Right. My thought is...since it'll likely be four years or so from the 2019 tour once they can logistically get back on the road, there will be a need to freshen up the show. I gather the audience didn't love Spice Circle...or at least the ones who paid for it didn't. That makes me wonder if they'll go the route of a more traditional runway platform into the audience. Anyway. My only concern about a tour with huge gaps is how production crews will react to that. I'm not personally in production for the touring of big shows, but I have several friends who are. A show going only when the Spices' kids are off from school would put the crew in a bizarre spot of a super long commitment...and not being able to accept other paying gigs in the meantime. The crew and dancers are, in effect, normal workers. Gotta eat. In that sense, it'd make it easier if the girls would take the time to just honestly commit to the road. But. These are all hypothetical situations. We'll see how it goes. As an aside to that, my friends have told me there was a belief within the production crews that the ROTSG tour was going to resume in summer 2008. What I don't know is if that was based on anything substantial behind the scenes...or just wishful thinking after a big tour was abruptly halted for unusual reasons. All I do know is this. For this new tour, we all better get our expectations ready for...an all-white stage costume wardrobe for Geri!

As to the conversation about an extensive tour...I mean...I would love that. But I have my doubts. To me, only Mel C seems to have the sort of endurance for performing on stage for months...even weeks on end. Even in 1998, touring seemed to really drain several of the members. My guess is we can expect another little flurry of shows at some point. With it being so long since the 2019 tour, my guess is they're going to need to build a new show from the ground up.

Sorry to jump back to an earlier conversation...but I do think this brings up some interesting thoughts. I don't remember the girls getting any negative press for keeping the song itself. Everything I remember hearing was just about cutting Gary Glitter himself from the film. That news, I think I only heard about from me following the girls so closely at the time. Gary Glitter's not really a known entity in the US...though his song Rock and Roll Part 2 remains a permanent fixture at sporting events...and was just featured in the movie Joker too. I think you're right that the scene would be cut altogether if this happened in 2022. The scene's not integral to the plot in any way. I do think there's a music performance that's needed in that moment for the flow of the film. My guess is if this happened now, a new performance scene might be rushed together...and the film possibly pushed back a bit. But. Y'know. 1997 wasn't 2022. I think the steps they took were in line with the expectations of the time. I guess there's something of a question of how much Glitter stood to benefit from the song staying in. My guess is he'd already gotten paid for use of the song with the film so close to release...and I'm not sure how many kids were going to seek out the original. I assumed for years this was a song the girls had written just for the movie. It was ages before I found out it was a cover.

***SPOILER FOR LAST NIGHT'S SHOW*** Well. This was actually my worst case scenario. Mel got voted off last night in a 2-2 split vote from the judges. Len's vote counts the most at the table. The person he decided to save was...*sigh*...Olivia Jade. For anyone not familiar, Olivia Jade is primarily known in the US for her family faking Olivia's involvement in competitive rowing for college admission. Her parents were accused of also bribing a coach at the college with $500,000. Parents got arrested. It was part of this college emissions scandal. Before the arrests, she posted some videos where she talks about how she just wanted to go to college to party and didn't care about school. Was also doing a video on her phone when she crashed a car one time. Yeah. All that. I'm not saying this stuff should mean she can't get employment for the rest of her life...or even define her for forever...but I did think it was morally questionable for DWTS to cast her. It's handing her yet another amazing opportunity...just two years after this college emissions scandal broke. To be fair, Olivia was good on the show. Better than Mel? I'd say they were about neck-and-neck. But it was disappointing to see Mel working so hard...and see someone else nab it away who has a rather unsavory recent history. Twitter is shook about it. Lol. Mel was clearly feeling pretty low last night. Granted, neither of them really deserved to be in the bottom two. I'd say they were both better than about five of the other couples...including three guys who have never landed in the bottom but are the clear weakest at this point. But. Anyway. The most important thing is Mel was excellent every week...was a class act...and came off really well. She deserved to go further. But. Hey. She hasn't done a lot in the US since the 90s...and I guess some of the others just have more enthusiastic current fanbases. Well done, Mel!

I have a very different view of her. I don't view an album as odd as Schizophonic as a produced-by-marketing-department album. I think that's true of some songs on the other girls' solo albums (largely the Mel B and Victoria songs that didn't have their writing credits). As 1999 goes, I don't think Geri did anything as bold as Mel C launching her album with Goin Down...or Mel B doing a video as risqué as Word Up. But I don't view Schizophonic as entirely generic and safe. To my ears, Look at Me is a very weird song. I like it...but I don't think another artist on her level of mainstream would have thrown in the "...my little white lie" part. Tracks like You're In A Bubble and Let Me Love You are overtly weird. Most producers would have swayed Geri from the big vocals on Walkaway. Lift Me Up and Bag It Up (and especially their videos) are high camp. The perspective on this may differ a bit on where you live. But for me living in the US, the Bag It Up video was among the most gay-positive videos I'd ever seen at that point. And it came out during a time Eminem was in his videos nearly barfing over the sight of two men together. That was the mainstream sensibility. Not Geri's. Even what I'd consider her most straightforward track on the album (Mi Chico Latino) has that oddball Spanish (sorta) rap. To me, the album's full of quirks...and her producers let her be her. I view a lot of decisions as something of a gamble. I think it paid off in the UK, and it didn't in the US. In terms of her retaining the Spice sound, my feeling is...she's entitled to it. Not just her. They all were. I view all five girls and their producers as the architects of that sound. And, frankly, I think some of the others' solo offerings would be better if they employed the Spice producers more often. I think Victoria's unreleased stuff with Biff is quite a bit better than a lot of VB.

Mel continues to be fab, but the competition is getting tooough. I think Mel landed in, like, 7th place this week based on the judges' scores. I thought her Mary Poppins routine, in particular, was undervalued. But then, I'm also aware of how hard she's pushing herself. Beats me how she's faring with the votes. "Sporty Spice" is a far more known name in the US than, say, Peloton trainer Cody Rigsby. But the DWTS voting audience may very well be the types to be fans of Rigsby or an influencer like Olivia Jade. I continue to think this is Jojo Siwa's to lose, but Melora Hardin has emerged as the judges' favorite. She's definitely very good...though I'm not sure I follow why she gets better scores than several of the others. But. Hey. The judges are professionals. Not me. But beyond the judges' support, Melora has something else going for her. She was on The Office...which was a popular show in its original run...but today? The show has risen to obsession-level in the US. So. She's likely got both the judges and the public on her side. One to watch out for.

I guess I had far lower expectations for Geri's debut than most others here. I liked Geri in the group and also liked her bits on Spice and Spiceworld...but I never thought her voice could carry a solo album (I thought the same about Victoria). So, yeah. I was actually really surprised by how well it turned out. I get that Geri often struggles to sing live and has a limited vocal range, but I actually find her voice on Schizophonic to be mostly very warm and distinct. I like the majority of the songs. And perhaps most importantly, the material is HER. I have no doubts she was behind the steering wheel in the creation of the songs. As for her antics in promoting her records...I'm not bothered by them at all? Frankly, in the wake of Lady Gaga in her prime and Lil Nas X today, I find Geri's promotions to be downright...quaint. (to be clear, I have no issue with anything Gaga or Lil Nas X has done either) If Geri's whole Chris Evans relationship was faked for the sake of Lift Me Up...I don't care? Celebs do that all the time. I actually think she's taken an unusual amount of heat for something so common. And as for her parading out dozens of pink speedo-clad men to promote Bag It Up...nope. Not bothered by that either. I would've added more.

The big thing for me is...Mel has danced beautifully and has come across great with these first three weeks. The competition is going to be tough, though. Granted, it's been a lot of years, but I remember thinking pretty early on that Mel B pretty much had it in the bag in her 2007 season...and that only one of the Cheetah Girls seemed to be challenging that (she was sent home surprisingly early). Granted, Mel B took second...but she was legitimately a better dancer than the winner. It strikes me that the competition is a lot tougher for Mel C this year. There are a lot of them who are uniformly good and likable to boot. To me, there's a pretty wide gap of what gets a 7 on the show. A few of the men seem to be letting their partners do all the work...and just rip out the abs at the right moments. (not mad at them...they're still better dancers than I'll ever be, and if I had abs like that, I'd be breaking them out too) Ultimately, I think this is Jojo Siwa's to lose. She's the one who first came to the public's attention as a dancer, and she's still got the youthful energy of a teenager. You could say the deck's stacked in her favor a bit...but on a 'making television' level, I get that if they were going to have historic same-sex dance partners, it couldn't be left to fail with a less skilled dancer. I don't have very clear predictions of how far Mel goes, but she should be proud of everything she's doing.

A few have asked if people in the US know the contestants. And. Well. Kinda? I think they're a bit short on household names this season. JoJo Siwa's a bit of an unusual case as someone who gets on these Most Influential Stars lists...yet I wouldn't be surprised to meet people who haven't heard of her. Sunisa Lee's a recent gold medal Olympian, so that name's probably out there. I don't know if "Martin Kove" is a name everyone knows, but people are definitely familiar with his face through Karate Kid and the hugely popular Cobra Kai series. Brian Austin Green was a 90s heartthrob. The others...kinda cover the niche audiences there for a sports star/country star/reality star/talk show host/etc, I think. I realize people arrive to fame in very different ways these days, but I'll admit I raised an eyebrow at one of them being described as a Peloton instructor. I've never heard of Cody Rigsby, but he's got a huge following. So. What do I know? And beats me what to make of Olivia Jade being included. She's mostly known for her college emissions scandal, so I'm not sure about the morality behind handing another grand opportunity to her. But. I find most of these shows like to cast someone who's not exactly...beloved. Anyway. While "Melanie C" may not immediately be known to everyone in the US, I would actually say "Sporty Spice" is the closest to a household name of the whole bunch. Honestly. The Spices owned an entire year in the US in a way that JoJo never did...though I'd still say JoJo will the biggest force to be reckoned with as a vote getter in the cast.

In her clues, the US football is throwing me off a bit. But maybe that's as simple as someone on the show asking..."Mel, what emojis should we use for you?" "A football!" And then they just posted that. But if it IS her for Dancing With The Stars, I actually really like this idea. It's rather unusual how this worked out. In the UK, the music sales/chart success for the girls would arguably go Mel C - Geri - Emma - Mel B - Victoria (I realize you could argue the placing of those last two). Meanwhile, the US profile/level of fame would actually go the polar opposite. Victoria - Mel B - Emma - Geri - Mel C. Mel C's presence in the US has largely been nonexistent...with the reception to Northern Star being especially tragic. That album boasted an amazing roster of producers and an appearance by Left Eye (who was on fire that year). Mel herself had even been part of a huge tour just the year before. And the album still couldn't crack the top 200 in its debut week. Oof. So. Yeah. I'm all for her getting people here talking about her again. No, she won't set the US charts on fire or whatever. But this is still a hit show...even after this many seasons. And if it can grow her small US following just a bit, then cool. I'm just glad the US exposure isn't from a judging gig. I much rather the girls be actively competing in something.

^ Really interesting to watch all those old press conference vids! A few interesting things from them. It's cool to hear them talk about the sign language interpreter on the tour screens (the only time I think I've heard them actually discuss that). Geri also talks about their gay fanbase, which she often did, really...something that was fairly rare at that time for an act geared toward kids/teens. There's one point Mel C dispels a rumor that they'd recorded a song called Desire...a song which had (according to the tabloid) made Geri cry. Interesting coincidence that Geri, of course, *would* record a Desire years later. They must have been quite exhausted. I know they liked to say the operation never ran smoother than in the months following Simon's firing...but I feel their energy as a group was never lower than the two months before Geri left. There are a lot of these sorts of appearances from then where they just seem...over...it. It doesn't help that Geri and Mel C are so overtly scolding the press here. I mean. I'm sure some of them in there deserved it. But...they did have lots of lovely articles in that era too? It's a really downbeat presser.

I haven't watched the Something About Geri documentary in ages, but from what I remember...it's a super unusual piece of television. She doesn't do/say anything outrageously offensive. It's just...going out of its way to find things that are mildly unflattering? She doesn't have a bag to pick up dog doo. She haggles the price of something at a market. What purpose did the show have other than to paint someone in a bad light? It's certainly not good television or worthy of air. Production quality is unusually poor. There are moments here and there where she's mildly egotistical...but in an age where artists pride themselves on their titanic egos, I think it's relatively quaint that Geri merely acknowledges her #1s and is a little upset her family can't come to a show.

We do actually know the writers. It's the women behind Legally Blonde and 10 Things I Hate About You. I think that was the last story I read about the animated movie production...from June 2019. In all fairness, the writers of Legally Blonde *do* seem to be a good match for a Spice film. A large part of my concern is...it's just so unprecedented. To me, an animated film is very much what a current act would do, not a group who got their last US top ten in early 1998. Sure, there are plenty of biopics and jukebox musicals out there...but what other film is comparable to this specific concept? I can't come up with anything. I mean, if it honestly does happen, I'll support it. I just can't help but think that if an announcement came out that New Kids On The Block were coming out with an animated movie, I'd just think..."well...that's about three decades too late..." I feel like that perception will haunt this film too. But. If I turn out to be wrong, I'll gladly admit it. A biopic of the Spice Girls makes more sense to me, really. They made enough of an impact on the 90s to deserve one. I could see a big, fun, quirky film that covers their main years of the 90s...and then concludes with an epic recreation of the Olympics performance. And I think a biopic is a better fit for their fanbase.

Honestly, I've been expecting this project to quietly get cancelled ever since it was announced. Yes, film projects take time...but I don't believe we've heard a peep about the production for well over two years. Maybe the filmmakers are seeing something here that I'm not...but I view this as a major gamble. I can understand the girls' interest in it...as a means of getting their music introduced to a new generation. Here's my concern. An animated film is generally going for kids. Others may catch it. But kids are the ultimate target... and they'll be quite a bit younger than who the group's actual core audience tends to be. There are film/TV properties that can get introduced to kids and experience a renaissance. We just saw this with the Looney Toons and the new Space Jam. I'm just not convinced this applies to music acts. When I was a kid in the 90s, would my friend circle have gone to an animated film of, say, the Bee Gees? Not a chance. We knew a few of their songs. We liked a few of their songs (I did, anyway). But ultimately, our generation had their own music acts. The girls still have a core audience out there, though they're largely in their 20s, 30s, and 40s...and I think the only majorly successful projects they're going to manage at this point will be tours.

I like Move Over, but I think there's a fact that's been somewhat lost to time. That main hook of the song existed in a Pepsi commercial before the Spice Girls and their team took it...and built the rest of the song around it. I might feel differently if this were a situation like Madonna and Like A Prayer...where the song was created on its own and just so happened to be used in a Pepsi commercial. But since Move Over's life began as a soft drink song? Nah, I prefer that it wasn't ever a single. As soft drink songs go, though...I think it's about as good as they come. If you weren't around in the 90s, I'm sure you could listen to the album and have no idea about the soft drink connection. As for Step To Me, I believe I remember hearing it got 'okay' radio play in the UK (lower top 40, I think?). For me, it'd be a little unusual for them to have left Step To Me off the first album (it's among their early demos), only to later decide to release it as a single. On the plus side, the song plays well to the stronger performers in the group...and may have allowed for some more good live performances. That's where that song really came into its own anyway. Would whatever they released at that time been a hit? Probably. But I'd also argue the nine singles they released from 1996 to 1998 were all really strong. And for me, it's probably for the best they never tried out anything weaker. I figure the closest thing we got to the group trying to carry a 'meh' single during Spice mania was their involvement with How Does It Feel To Be On Top Of The World (though I'm aware they're only featured on that)

I actually do remember this. Virgin's deal wasn't with Napster. It was with RealPlayer. I used to play all my stuff on it...and for a short stretch of time, there was a little ad on the player where you could watch Spice Girls Forever content. I'm pretty sure you could watch the videos for Let Love Lead the Way and Holler...and behind-the-scenes videos set to Tell Me Why and Right Back At Ya. The behind-the-scenes videos weren't much. Just some hastily-edited together looks at their photoshoots. It was the usual "lowest-effort-possible" product that often plagued them during the Forever release. I figure cutting those videos was an intern's assignment for a day... The leak of the whole album was on Napster, of course. At the time, I remember a lot of fans blaming the album's disappointing sales on Napster.

I've always assumed they didn't actually record it...just because Mel B talks about Teddy Riley having preconceived notions about her when she went in to record her Hot material. If they had a previous recording relationship, I don't think it'd be a matter of "preconceived notions", and they'd already know each other's dynamics in the studio. I do think they were scheduled to record it at one time, though. The Boyfriend/Girlfriend story was being reported by MTV and actual reputable sources that probably got it from a legitimate press release. I definitely don't know this for sure...but my guess is the pregnancies probably got in the way of recording the song/promoting it/shooting a video/etc. I do wonder if the Spices would have changed the song from how we know it now. I don't think Mel B has inhibitions about song content, so she'd probably be down to sing whatever. But I flat-out can't imagine the other three singing a chorus with the phrase "ready to bone". Sure, the group sang about sex...but they tended to be a *little* more discreet than THAT (hey, Feed Your Love...)

I guess Riley did nearly work on some material that could have wound up on Forever...if that rumor's true that Boyfriend/Girlfriend was meant for the Spices (and I think it is true). I think I'm ultimately glad it didn't work out. People thought Holler was an abrupt change. Beats me what the world would think if the Spices unleashed Boyfriend/Girlfriend...with its references to coke and hoes. The song does have an energy I kinda like...but I don't think much of anyone would class it as better than "okay". It's probably telling that even Janet Jackson, who still very much had her midas touch at the time, couldn't propel it to being a big hit. But in a best case scenario, I could see where a Spice Girls/Teddy Riley collab could have been great. Riley did some work on Michael Jackson's Invincible...an album that I tend to associate a bit with Forever because of the time frame, the heavy Darkchild influence, and the less-than-stellar reception to both. Riley has a song called Whatever Happens on Invincible, which is easily my favorite song on that album. It's beautiful, and it also shows how Riley could pull off a lot of genres. He was a far more varied producer than Darkchild was at that time. I think Riley pretty willfully gave Mel his scraps.

This is kinda my thought about a world tour too. Obviously, I'd love it if they did a big tour...both because I'd love to see them again...and to build up their reputation as an act that puts on a fun live show. Plus, Emma and Mel C only seem to get better as live performers as the years go on. But. Beats me if that'll manage to be in the cards. To me, only Mel C seems truly built for a massive world tour. Mel B and Emma are both total stars and are fab on stage...but I don't know they have the sort of attention span for a long tour. I'll preface anything about Geri by saying...I'm about as big a defender of her solo music career as they come. But. I feel like every time she's feeling uncertain or lacking confidence, you can really read it on her. I don't really mean to psychoanalyse a person I don't know at all, but my guess is all these years of criticism of her voice and dancing has made her self conscious and stilted in her performing. I'm not sure she can still let loose and just have fun on stage. Can someone like that be convinced to do an extensive world tour?

Right. I did hear I Know Where Its At a bit on the radio in the months before Never Ever came out. They also had a commercial for the album using IKWIA that ran on MTV quite a bit. Honestly, I think that commercial was my main familiarity with All Saints early on...and it's what got me to buy their album. I'm just not aware of even any attempt by them to follow up Never Ever in the market. Considering how huge a different cover of Lady Marmalade would be a few years later, I guess (in retrospect) their cover may have been a good one to try in the US. Honestly, that first album has several songs that seem like they'd fit on US radio. spiceboy, I actually had no idea C'est La Vie by B*witched managed to get to #9. I literally never heard the song on the radio, though it was clearly playing somewhere. I actually first became aware of it because I was on a flight to London that spring, and that song was one of the things you could listen to if you bought headphones. I do remember them being featured pretty heavily on the Disney channel with some live performances and such. I guess that counted for something.

It's always been odd to me how rarely these UK girl groups manage to crack the US market. The Spices obviously owned 1997 in the US, but even by 1998, their radio play was nearly nonexistent...even when they had two albums sitting in the top 10 at the same time. All Saints is a really curious situation. Never Ever was HUGE here. In fact, I'd say I heard Never Ever get more radio play than any Spice single, bar Wannabe (though it's possible this was just the situation in my part of the country). However, despite Never Ever being everywhere, I never heard a follow-up single on US radio. Did they try anything else after Never Ever? Also. Never Ever seems to be one of those curious cases of a song that was enormous for a year...but people my age don't seem to especially remember it? After that, it's been a hodgepodge. I heard Scandalous by Mis-Teeq on the radio a bit back when it came out. Little Mix has had two albums in the top 10 here...though none of their singles have had an impressive showing on the Billboard chart. Atomic Kitten, Girls Aloud, and Sugababes didn't crack the market much at all, I don't think. That observation doesn't have anything to do with music quality. I think most of these groups had songs worthy of charting just about anywhere. Just curious that UK solo acts and boybands crack the US pretty regularly...but girl groups so rarely make it...

As far as I know, Teddy Riley never spoke publicly about Mel. Mel was who said they didn't get along...and that he apparently had preconceived ideas of her. Jam n' Lewis did an interview saying they had to build Mel's confidence back up because another producer told her she couldn't sing. They didn't say the producer by name...but I think it had to be Teddy Riley. Anyway. I definitely understand Mel/Virgin's logic in getting Teddy Riley on board the Hot project. He'd produced absolute classics for Michael Jackson like Remember the Time, and (at least here in the US) his No Diggity may arguably be THE r'n'b song of the 90s. There was a lot of reason to believe his material for Mel would be stronger than, say, ABC123. What I don't totally follow is...if Riley so desperately didn't want to work with Mel...why'd he do it? The guy had some of the biggest hits of the 90s under his belt and was still working with music's biggest names. I have a hard time believing he worked with Mel cause he needed the money. He was still a very prominent producer in 2000.

One other thing. I know this is going back to a conversation from a few days ago, but I think there's a bit of important context with the GEM songs. If memory serves correctly, those weren't especially created as a big pop comeback. Weren't they just for use in a TV show pitch that never got off the ground? Wasn't the plan to have GEM choosing everyday women to be Spice Girls in a performance or something? An "everyone can be a Spice Girl" thing? If I were to guess, we'd see busy moms as contestants, balancing work and kids...and loving the chance to break loose and perform on stage. Within that context, I think Song For Her makes sense...and also the title of this other track.