Piers

I like Move Over, but I think there's a fact that's been somewhat lost to time. That main hook of the song existed in a Pepsi commercial before the Spice Girls and their team took it...and built the rest of the song around it. I might feel differently if this were a situation like Madonna and Like A Prayer...where the song was created on its own and just so happened to be used in a Pepsi commercial. But since Move Over's life began as a soft drink song? Nah, I prefer that it wasn't ever a single. As soft drink songs go, though...I think it's about as good as they come. If you weren't around in the 90s, I'm sure you could listen to the album and have no idea about the soft drink connection. As for Step To Me, I believe I remember hearing it got 'okay' radio play in the UK (lower top 40, I think?). For me, it'd be a little unusual for them to have left Step To Me off the first album (it's among their early demos), only to later decide to release it as a single. On the plus side, the song plays well to the stronger performers in the group...and may have allowed for some more good live performances. That's where that song really came into its own anyway. Would whatever they released at that time been a hit? Probably. But I'd also argue the nine singles they released from 1996 to 1998 were all really strong. And for me, it's probably for the best they never tried out anything weaker. I figure the closest thing we got to the group trying to carry a 'meh' single during Spice mania was their involvement with How Does It Feel To Be On Top Of The World (though I'm aware they're only featured on that)

I actually do remember this. Virgin's deal wasn't with Napster. It was with RealPlayer. I used to play all my stuff on it...and for a short stretch of time, there was a little ad on the player where you could watch Spice Girls Forever content. I'm pretty sure you could watch the videos for Let Love Lead the Way and Holler...and behind-the-scenes videos set to Tell Me Why and Right Back At Ya. The behind-the-scenes videos weren't much. Just some hastily-edited together looks at their photoshoots. It was the usual "lowest-effort-possible" product that often plagued them during the Forever release. I figure cutting those videos was an intern's assignment for a day... The leak of the whole album was on Napster, of course. At the time, I remember a lot of fans blaming the album's disappointing sales on Napster.

I've always assumed they didn't actually record it...just because Mel B talks about Teddy Riley having preconceived notions about her when she went in to record her Hot material. If they had a previous recording relationship, I don't think it'd be a matter of "preconceived notions", and they'd already know each other's dynamics in the studio. I do think they were scheduled to record it at one time, though. The Boyfriend/Girlfriend story was being reported by MTV and actual reputable sources that probably got it from a legitimate press release. I definitely don't know this for sure...but my guess is the pregnancies probably got in the way of recording the song/promoting it/shooting a video/etc. I do wonder if the Spices would have changed the song from how we know it now. I don't think Mel B has inhibitions about song content, so she'd probably be down to sing whatever. But I flat-out can't imagine the other three singing a chorus with the phrase "ready to bone". Sure, the group sang about sex...but they tended to be a *little* more discreet than THAT (hey, Feed Your Love...)

I guess Riley did nearly work on some material that could have wound up on Forever...if that rumor's true that Boyfriend/Girlfriend was meant for the Spices (and I think it is true). I think I'm ultimately glad it didn't work out. People thought Holler was an abrupt change. Beats me what the world would think if the Spices unleashed Boyfriend/Girlfriend...with its references to coke and hoes. The song does have an energy I kinda like...but I don't think much of anyone would class it as better than "okay". It's probably telling that even Janet Jackson, who still very much had her midas touch at the time, couldn't propel it to being a big hit. But in a best case scenario, I could see where a Spice Girls/Teddy Riley collab could have been great. Riley did some work on Michael Jackson's Invincible...an album that I tend to associate a bit with Forever because of the time frame, the heavy Darkchild influence, and the less-than-stellar reception to both. Riley has a song called Whatever Happens on Invincible, which is easily my favorite song on that album. It's beautiful, and it also shows how Riley could pull off a lot of genres. He was a far more varied producer than Darkchild was at that time. I think Riley pretty willfully gave Mel his scraps.

This is kinda my thought about a world tour too. Obviously, I'd love it if they did a big tour...both because I'd love to see them again...and to build up their reputation as an act that puts on a fun live show. Plus, Emma and Mel C only seem to get better as live performers as the years go on. But. Beats me if that'll manage to be in the cards. To me, only Mel C seems truly built for a massive world tour. Mel B and Emma are both total stars and are fab on stage...but I don't know they have the sort of attention span for a long tour. I'll preface anything about Geri by saying...I'm about as big a defender of her solo music career as they come. But. I feel like every time she's feeling uncertain or lacking confidence, you can really read it on her. I don't really mean to psychoanalyse a person I don't know at all, but my guess is all these years of criticism of her voice and dancing has made her self conscious and stilted in her performing. I'm not sure she can still let loose and just have fun on stage. Can someone like that be convinced to do an extensive world tour?

Right. I did hear I Know Where Its At a bit on the radio in the months before Never Ever came out. They also had a commercial for the album using IKWIA that ran on MTV quite a bit. Honestly, I think that commercial was my main familiarity with All Saints early on...and it's what got me to buy their album. I'm just not aware of even any attempt by them to follow up Never Ever in the market. Considering how huge a different cover of Lady Marmalade would be a few years later, I guess (in retrospect) their cover may have been a good one to try in the US. Honestly, that first album has several songs that seem like they'd fit on US radio. spiceboy, I actually had no idea C'est La Vie by B*witched managed to get to #9. I literally never heard the song on the radio, though it was clearly playing somewhere. I actually first became aware of it because I was on a flight to London that spring, and that song was one of the things you could listen to if you bought headphones. I do remember them being featured pretty heavily on the Disney channel with some live performances and such. I guess that counted for something.

It's always been odd to me how rarely these UK girl groups manage to crack the US market. The Spices obviously owned 1997 in the US, but even by 1998, their radio play was nearly nonexistent...even when they had two albums sitting in the top 10 at the same time. All Saints is a really curious situation. Never Ever was HUGE here. In fact, I'd say I heard Never Ever get more radio play than any Spice single, bar Wannabe (though it's possible this was just the situation in my part of the country). However, despite Never Ever being everywhere, I never heard a follow-up single on US radio. Did they try anything else after Never Ever? Also. Never Ever seems to be one of those curious cases of a song that was enormous for a year...but people my age don't seem to especially remember it? After that, it's been a hodgepodge. I heard Scandalous by Mis-Teeq on the radio a bit back when it came out. Little Mix has had two albums in the top 10 here...though none of their singles have had an impressive showing on the Billboard chart. Atomic Kitten, Girls Aloud, and Sugababes didn't crack the market much at all, I don't think. That observation doesn't have anything to do with music quality. I think most of these groups had songs worthy of charting just about anywhere. Just curious that UK solo acts and boybands crack the US pretty regularly...but girl groups so rarely make it...

As far as I know, Teddy Riley never spoke publicly about Mel. Mel was who said they didn't get along...and that he apparently had preconceived ideas of her. Jam n' Lewis did an interview saying they had to build Mel's confidence back up because another producer told her she couldn't sing. They didn't say the producer by name...but I think it had to be Teddy Riley. Anyway. I definitely understand Mel/Virgin's logic in getting Teddy Riley on board the Hot project. He'd produced absolute classics for Michael Jackson like Remember the Time, and (at least here in the US) his No Diggity may arguably be THE r'n'b song of the 90s. There was a lot of reason to believe his material for Mel would be stronger than, say, ABC123. What I don't totally follow is...if Riley so desperately didn't want to work with Mel...why'd he do it? The guy had some of the biggest hits of the 90s under his belt and was still working with music's biggest names. I have a hard time believing he worked with Mel cause he needed the money. He was still a very prominent producer in 2000.

One other thing. I know this is going back to a conversation from a few days ago, but I think there's a bit of important context with the GEM songs. If memory serves correctly, those weren't especially created as a big pop comeback. Weren't they just for use in a TV show pitch that never got off the ground? Wasn't the plan to have GEM choosing everyday women to be Spice Girls in a performance or something? An "everyone can be a Spice Girl" thing? If I were to guess, we'd see busy moms as contestants, balancing work and kids...and loving the chance to break loose and perform on stage. Within that context, I think Song For Her makes sense...and also the title of this other track.

I'm hoping it's your option #1. I guess it's all depending on whether "Spice 25" is viewed as a 25-year celebration of just the Spice album or (how I'd prefer it) a 25-year celebration of all things Spice Girls. If Biff's live stream from the other day is any indication, it would seem like things are leaning to the former. He said if his unreleased Forever material were to come out, it would make the most sense to happen at the 25-year anniversary of that album. Granted, he may have said that to throw us off the track of what they're doing. But really. There will be little interest in a 25-year anniversary edition of Forever. I feel like this year is the time to go ahead and get out all the good unreleased material. Frankly, I don't need every last bit of music they ever recorded. I don't think the girls or their producers have ever had anything nice to say about Likely Stories. Strong Enough can stay a leaked demo. However, the Eliot Kennedy leaked tracks from the Forever era ARE a good example of material that's good enough to be out there in some official capacity. The tracks have quite a few views on YouTube. Might as well be benefitting from that in some way on Spotify, right? Biff seems to like several of his unreleased Forever tracks. I feel like it very rarely gets mentioned, but Can't Stay Tonight...is there a group version of that in the vault?

I adore this song...and it was honestly the one-two punch of NGUOTGT and Viva Forever on Spiceworld that elevated me from "fan" to "lifelong devotee." These two songs were just next level from what pop groups were doing in the 90s. Now. Here's a controversial take. I would have preferred the Spice fairies in a video for NGUOTGT. I'm glad there are so many fans who like the Viva Forever video. But for me, it's probably their only single where I don't immediately think of the video when the song is mentioned. There's just a disconnect for me. I'm fully aware that the video doesn't need to be a literal translation of the song. But the contrast of a deeply romantic song...put against a video that's essentially about puberty...sorry...it's weird for me. Tag to that, even though this isn't the intent, I've never quite shaken the appearance of the Spice fairies seemingly luring a kid into a box for some murky fate. I like the Spice fairies in general. They're designed well...their personalities are conveyed well...and I like the animation of them. But...I think the weird fit with Viva Forever is why they didn't really stick in the public's minds in the way some of their other videos did. The single cover certainly doesn't convey the feeling of the song. You know what song that cover would match? NGUOTGT. I think I just would have preferred them in an upbeat NGUOTGT video where they're flying around...visiting people in live action scenarios, brightening up their gloominess and what-not. It'd allow them to be more fun...be more funny. Controversial opinion over.

I'm glad someone asked about this. I've always wondered about it myself. I believe he's telling the truth...and perhaps nothing was ever officially said. But I feel there must have been some unspoken lines drawn in 1998, though. The group...along with Mel B, Mel C, Emma, and Victoria as solo artists...all worked with Biff. None ever released any material with Absolute (I use the word "released"...because I *believe* Emma did record one unreleased track with them during the Life in Mono era). Then, a substantial part of Geri's career is produced with Absolute...and she never worked with Biff as a solo artist. There's got to be *something* to that. Also interesting to hear Biff's favorite Forever song is Let Love Lead the Way...and he was really impressed by it when hearing it for the first time. I've always felt the girls like that one better than the fanbase generally does. Interesting to know Biff's on the same page with them.

I've been able to get in a bunch of listens to Feed Your Love in the past 24 hours. I really like it. It's yet another testament to how often the girls and their collaborators were able to make magic during the Spice recording sessions. Would it have been too racy for Spice? I'm not sure I especially see it that way. The song's definitely about sex, but I'm not sure I would have taken away that it's specifically about giving a blow job without that being spelled out for me by Biff's past interviews. I'm not sure the world would have paid a ton of mind to the song in 1996...unless Mel B was blurting out what it was about in interviews or something. In terms of the Spice album, I wouldn't want Feed Your Love to haven taken the place of anything already on the album. The ten songs there are already too strong. However, 12-track albums were a bit more common in that era. And knowing what they had available to them at the time, I actually think Spice would have been just as strong with Step To Me (probably placed after 2 Become 1 and before Love Thing) and Feed Your Love (after Something Kinda Funny and before Naked) included. 12-track album. Is that a controversial take? I don't think Feed Your Life is the great lost single, but I do feel it would have been a solid album track.

I actually think I would have known that was Mel B before she even sang. Even those voice disguisers can't quite obscure Mel's very distinct accent and speech patterns. Plus, the Clue Package has video of Medusa's suitcase with animal print tops. I mean. C'mon. I wish she wasn't doing such listless performances on these shows. She proved with the 2019 tour that she's just got as much fire as she ever did. Someone who has such fabulous stage presence really shouldn't just stand there singing a snoozer of a song. She continues her long-running trend of performing songs that are all wrong for her voice. The good news is the song's prerecorded, because I think it's too far out of her range to do it well live. If she'd just strut out and do a rock song, I'm sure she could slay it. But. Oh well. By the way, two judges guessed Eva Longoria and Paris Hilton...the other two judges both guessed Geri. After the Geri guesses, they blasted Wannabe (so of course, it's Mel herself that we're hearing in that moment...)

I can't say I keep up with British tabloids...but doesn't The Sun just make up stuff about them constantly? Clearly, they wouldn't be setting a second movie into motion when they're still attempting to get this animated film off the ground. I'm 95% sure the animated film will never get made either, but at least we do know there's a confirmed effort to do that one. And I feel like The Sun wrote this article with a very 90s understanding of the group. Geri's been occasionally uncomfortable in the spotlight for a while now. She wouldn't be the one to spearhead a project like this. If I were making up an article from thin air (which is what I think The Sun did), I would claim Mel B was behind it. All that said, I do wish the girls as a group would do a fun cameo in a film like Wilson Phillips in Bridesmaids or the Backstreet Boys in This is The End.

Over the years, I've heard the criticism quite a lot that this was the first album where Madonna chased a trend rather than set it. I've never thought that was an accurate assessment. I think there's some similarity with Hard Candy and Bedtime Story. Similar to Hard Candy obviously being work by Timbaland and Pharrell, you clearly can tell that a lot of Bedtime Story is Dallas Austin and Babyface. Their sound had dominated 90s r'n'b for years by the time Bedtime Story came along. Most of Bedtime Story's tracks could have belonged to a lot of other 90s acts. Beyond that, some reviews at the time claimed Confessions on a Dance Floor fit into a particular dance sound that'd been around for years...and wasn't hugely dissimilar to some stuff by people like Kylie. Love Song obviously sounds more Prince than Madonna. Anyway. Point being, to me...Madonna's actually had a lot of eras that were informed by what was big at the moment, so I don't single out Hard Candy and fault it for that. The album itself, I mostly like. Several big, catchy songs. 4 Minutes remains epic. The album derails a few times (hey Incredible). I put it somewhere in the middle of her discography. It's certainly more lightweight than her best albums. But in a way, I do feel her making an attempt to do a very of-the-time, radio friendly album was somewhat subversive for her age. It's an obvious attempt to be seen as a peer of the then-current class of pop stars. I don't find that desperate. I actually think it's a strike against ageism.

Entertainment Weekly is reporting Diablo Cody finished her work on the screenplay and is just moving on to the next project. No riff. Granted, that could be studio spin. But at the same time, I *think* (?) Entertainment Weekly is viewed as a more reputable source than the places reporting Diablo Cody quit because of problems with Madonna. It would certainly help if one of them just came forward and made a comment...put it all to bed. That said, Madonna does have a long history of going to war with her film collaborators. Who knows? Maybe her collaborators deserved it on some of those occasions...but I genuinely hope everything's okay with Diablo Cody. Cody is the element that's giving me the most hope for this project. She's the absolute perfect person to pen this story. While having Madonna collaborate on the screenplay was the right action, I see her directing as likely to be a disaster. Madonna's trended for all the wrong reasons for years at this point. A biopic has a lot of potential to rehab her image and remind the public what amazing music she created. A director like Patty Jenkins would have the right mix of mainstream sensibilities and edginess to pull this off. Madonna the filmmaker? I could easily see this getting perceived as a titanic ego trip, and I don't know how Universal isn't nervous about this considering the reception to most of Madonna's other movies.

Right. Their loss of US radio support could have been a number of things. Simon's firing might be it. I think we may have discussed this before...but my theory's always been that there were a number of US-grown pop groups waiting in the wings...and some powerful people in music might have wanted the Spices out of the way. It certainly felt that way in 1998...with the Spices outselling a lot of acts by a wide margin...yet the new acts were getting all the radio/video play. In terms of their over commercialization, I don't actually think that was as bad here as it was in the UK. We got Pepsi/Move Over...but I think that's about it in terms of commercials. There was a ton of merchandise, for sure, though. I'd also say this. As a kid, I felt there was a very pronounced shift in attitudes toward them when the Spice World movie trailers showed up. Before then, they had a few mostly liked singles. They were fun in interviews. They were badasses in Say You'll Be There. But I don't think the Spice World trailers played well to the US audience. I remember cringing watching them...staring at the trailer and thinking...what is even going on here? Today, I kinda defend that film on a certain level...and could probably write a thesis paper on how I think it was a camp fest intentionally built to be a midnight movie cult film someday. But back then? I remember that being about the time you had to start keeping your Spice fandom a secret. But anyway. You're absolutely right that they're in a better light today. Everything that some considering grating (including the movie) is now overwhelmingly viewed as fun 90s nostalgia.

I've never asked around, but I've wondered what other fans made of the editing of her concert tour releases. I've tried to watch sections of her Rebel Heart release, but it always just makes me wonder...who exactly enjoys this? The editing and effects are total chaos. All her live vocals are practically obscured. Luckily, I got to see and enjoy that show in person. But my general feeling is the way that release is edited actually hides the intricacy and energy of the staging and choreography. It was way cooler to see in person. But. I don't know. Maybe the way I watch things is old fashioned? I tend to like concerts presented somewhat similarly to how most live shows are done. In revisiting the Rebel Heart tour, I've definitely gone to fan videos. Unfortunately, you can't exactly do that as much with the Madame X tour...a show I didn't get to see in person and would very much like to experience...preferably without the chaos? I've kinda wondered the logic in editing like this. Is it an attempt to appeal to the youngest demographic?...the result of an artist who's too critical of her own singing and dancing?

The commercial failure of some of her early films does strike me as an unusual thing. Who's That Girl would be the prime example. That film came out during Madonna's absolute commercial peak with True Blue. The Who's That Girl soundtrack was a huge hit. The corresponding tour was a huge hit. Who's That Girl was a #1 single with the film heavily featured in the video. How does the film get released in the middle of that and get barely seen? As I mentioned earlier, I don't think it's a film that especially works...but considering it starred one of the most famous faces on the planet and seemingly had so much attention, I'd think it'd sell some tickets. And honestly. It's not like a movie's ever had to be good to be a hit. I mean. This is the same era the Police Academy sequels were raking in the cash...

I finally sat down to watch Bloodhounds of Broadway the other night...and I think you summed it up really well. Wow, does this thing get off on the wrong foot. The first few scenes try to introduce about 30 characters at once. It does help that nearly everyone in the movie is a recognizable face, but I would have needed a flow chart to keep up with all the connections and relationships being immediately dumped on the audience. It certainly doesn't help that the audio is oddly murky in that early scene in the diner. My understanding is all of this is based on some beloved series of stories. So. I'm just going to assume it was all a lot more engaging on the page. As it was presented here, I really couldn't care less about these characters or their plights. I do think the Razzie nom for Worst Supporting Actress was a pretty silly thing. While the movie has issues, Madonna's clearly not the problem. In fact, I probably found her the single most interesting thing about it. Her performance with an oddly bored (?) Jennifer Grey has some cute mannerisms. M's scenes do inject a little life into things. I'll add this. Her pairing with Randy 'Cousin Eddie' Quaid has to be one of the most random movie couples ever. I won't spoil the movie (though...is anyone going to watch this thing?...), but I'm a little surprised that her character's resolution didn't make Madonna just gag.

On an international level, no. They weren't a flash in the pan. You can get into the weeds in terms of sales/chart expectations, but ultimately, members were scoring top ten singles in several markets for more than a decade. That's a longevity that doesn't qualify as a flash in the pan. In the US music market, I think the question's a bit more complicated. Because they arrived here in 1997, the US essentially just got a year and four months of the classic five-piece lineup. The group absolutely owned 1997. By 1998, the group's radio/MTV support was gone...but they remained huge throughout the year due to the movie release, Geri's leaving, and the tour. However, the drop in interest for anything Spice related in 1999 could not have been more steep and abrupt. Despite the group being so massive a few months earlier, Geri couldn't manage a top 40 album. Mel C's didn't even make the top 200 in the first week. Then, Forever just barely scraped into the top 40...a wild thought considering the group had two albums in the top ten at the same time in 1998. Of course, dramatic falls have happened before. Cyndi Lauper and Paula Abdul spring to mind. But actually, the Spices soared higher and fell quicker and harder than either of them. As big a fan as I am of the Spices...how suddenly, quickly, and dramatically they fell in the US after THAT start...does seem rare. Who even compares? Granted, there are lots of reasons for the drop...between the girls' lack of promotion in the US market and the near total absence of radio/MTV support. But that's not so much excuses as much as reasons for such a swift and sudden fall. They ARE unquestionably very well remembered, though. They're a permanent, substantial part of 90s nostalgia. And if that saves them from being considered a flash in the pan, then there ya go. (to be clear...I voted 'no')

^ That's actually interesting that Swear It Again managed to chart that high in the US. #20. I was keeping up with pop radio quite a bit at that time, and I never heard it. Westlife is an unknown group here. With the Spice Girls, I'd say the cultural impact actually outpaces the sales in the US. They completely owned 1997. They were hugely popular throughout 1998. To this day, Wannabe's still a staple of parties and karaoke bars. Every 90s Party I've ever seen (they're big in my age group) has had someone dressed up as a Spice Girl. I see people dressed as Spice Girls every Halloween. The uniqueness of their image made them a lasting brand. Yes, their success dropped here at a certain point, but the group wasn't even doing the bare minimum to support their efforts...so... Anyway. I'm not trying to make it sound like the US music market is the be-all and end-all or anything. But it IS the biggest music market...and that has to count for something in a conversation of which of two groups is bigger. I realize I just wrote quite a lot in response to a discussion that probably wasn't serious to begin with...

Maybe this is a bit of a sore subject in a Madonna forum...considering how nastily critics treated Madonna the actress. But. I've watched a chunk of her filmography, and I'm curious what other fans make of her movies. The ones I've seen: Dick Tracy. I actually really love this movie. The cast. The comic book aesthetic. The score. The songs. All great...and I'd venture to say this is my favorite Madonna role. She's so good in it. Desperately Seeking Susan. I think she's at her most natural here. I realize the plot's a bit bonkers, but I'd love to live in this movie...if that makes sense. It gives me a nostalgia for a time I never lived in. Evita. I do think this material works a bit better on stage. The film feels a bit like a long montage for me at times. But the songs and music are gorgeous, and that's what matters. M's excellent. Who's That Girl. Beats me if this has ever been said, but I genuinely do think M is good in this. She creates a character, a living cartoon, and commits to it. I think she and Griffin Dunne are two of the only positives in a film that's a mess. I think my issue with it is I'm not clear on the rules of this world. Is this a standard comedy where wacky (yet plausible) things can happen?...or an exaggerated world (like The Naked Gun) where literally anything can take place? To me, it veers inconsistently between the two. And I find parts of it to be desperate in its attempts at comedy. The tied up bridesmaids spring to mind... Body Of Evidence. I think she does what the role calls for here and, to me, the star quality's on display. It's not a great film, but it's pretty in line with the other fun, smutty erotic thrillers of the early 90s. Shanghai Surprise. This is the only one I've seen where I thought her performance flat-out didn't work. I kinda understood the logic in her casting...with her resembling Hollywood starlets of the era when it's set. But she's just not comfortable with this part...and I think she's probably the weakest link in an otherwise unmemorable film. Other than that, I've seen Four Rooms and Die Another Day, but not recently enough to have opinions. I have not seen A Certain Sacrifice (...if that counts?), Bloodhounds of Broadway, A League of Their Own (surprisingly), Dangerous Game, The Next Best Thing, Swept Away, or Arthur and the Invisibles (or any number of small cameo films). Any of them I need to give a shot?

On The Horizon sooo doesn't deserve the ire it gets. I didn't get Here It Comes Again when it first came out. All her Northern Star stuff was so interesting. I couldn't believe Mel had taken that long a break to come back with something so bland. HICA has grown on me majorly over the years. I like it now. But. Putting myself in my 2003 mindframe, it was On the Horizon that won me back over to Mel and got me interested in Reason. I was convinced OTH *had* to at least perform better than HICA on the charts. It was just that much more commercial.