Piers

Before the release of Hot, Sisqo was angry that some elements of his productions were changed on the two songs he did...Hell No and Hotter. I can't remember his exact quote...but it was something to the effect of "if she doesn't change it back, I'm taking my name off the songs." So. He didn't exactly do that. But I did notice those songs seem to be credited to "Mark Andrews" (his real name) as opposed to the known "Sisqo". From what I can tell, he sometimes went as Mark "Sisqo" Andrews on his own writing credits. Anyway. This is total speculation on my part. But I did wonder if Mel decided not to release it out of concern of reigniting some bad blood. Tag to that, she'd been vocal about not getting along with Teddy Riley, so she basically had a bad experience with her collaborators for half the album. So. In her mind, maybe it was safer to go with a track written by longtime collaborator Richard Stannard and produced by the Darkchild team (who were always positive about their Spice collaborations)? I do think she was bound to take a slide no matter what she released at that point. I think Tell Me and Feels So Good were more obvious hits than Hotter. But I'd agree that Hotter was probably the next most obvious in line...and was certainly a more commercial choice than Lullaby. Maybe it could have made the top 10? Anyway. Back on topic. Which of these do I wish made the top ten? Headlines. The reasons it all went wrong for Headlines have already been discussed in here, so I won't get into it all. But while I found the one TV performance and the video to be surprisingly unimaginative for what should have been a big pop culture moment...I've never been disappointed in the song itself. I thought it was gorgeous from the first listen, and I've never changed my mind about liking it. I guess you could argue that declaring your love through newspapers isn't the most relatable perspective...but I'll defend it as a kinda unique take...and certainly an experience they'd been living for a while. All the girls and their collaborators had evolved so much since 1997, I actually think it's cool their team somehow recaptured that very specific Spice sound from ten years previous. I don't hold it in the same regard as Viva Forever or anything, but I do think it deserves a place alongside their other singles. Other than that...On The Horizon. It sooo doesn't deserve the ire it gets. (Mod Edit: 'Reason' discussion moved to 'Reason' thread: http://www.buzzjack.com/forums/index.php?s...t&p=6803892 )

The big thing is...I'm super appreciative of Geri and her team releasing a full song without interruptions...and with the lyrics. The new version's pretty. I continue to think Without Love is among the best three or so songs she's done in the post-Passion era...and one of her prettiest ballads just in general. I wonder if it's about anyone in particular. Robbie sprang to mind. But that's all total speculation on my part. Totally honest. I do prefer the leaked version from a few years ago. There's a certain haunting quality about that one. I also prefer her vocal take on that one...which isn't as reliant on the vocal fry. I don't mind the fry in general, but I think a little really goes a long way with it. But minus the number of vocal fries, I think she sounds really nice on this. So. Yeah. I definitely prefer the leaked versions of both Man on the Mountain and Without Love. But, whatever. These are Geri's songs, and if this is how she wants her work to be interpreted and heard, cool. I'm glad I get to hear this one in full.

I remember when articles were claiming this was going to be a three-way chart battle...between Kylie, Victoria, and Michael Jackson's comeback single (which ended up being You Rock My World). Of course, it didn't happen that way. I think MJ ended up releasing later than expected if memory serves correctly. Totally honest. I remember hanging around and posting in the fan forums a lot during that time...and a lot of us did think we were going to get a legitimate chart battle with Kylie. I knew CGYOOMH was the better song...and I knew it was likely to win. But. Keeping in mind, the year before, Out of Your Mind outsold all of Kylie's Light Years singles by quite a lot. Everything Victoria touched had huge sales to that point. The only true disappointment in that department was Forever, but the group issues were obvious there. Victoria...with a sharp, state-of-the-art video...and a full-speed-ahead promotional campaign? How could her album launcher not be a huge seller? That was the thinking among many then, anyway. Emma and Geri had number ones that same year. Not Such An Innocent Girl was fairly well-liked by the fanbase until people started hearing the sales. The diehard fans hadn't totally realized at this point that the era of a Spice Girl at #1 had ended...and their chances at chart success were kinda collectively lowering at about the same rate. I expected CGYOOMH to win, but I definitely didn't expect the gap in sales.

Oh yeah! Sleeping Beauty. I think that was supposed to be a BBC musical for TV, right? I remember that project getting a lot of attention back in 1999. MTV in the US was reporting on it. I've never seen that Emma screen test. I'm going to have to try to track it down... Ah yes. Fat Slags. One of the only times a Spice Girl gets on the big screen post-Spice World, and it's...Fat Slags. I can't say that much. I've never sat down to watch the whole thing. I've only seen some compilations of Geri's scenes on Youtube. It...doesn't look like my thing. I'll leave it at that. This seriously played at some theaters? And yeah, there's Ab Fab. And Emma and Victoria were sorta kinda in Zoolander (in archive footage). I wish the full five-piece could still make a fun appearance in some A-list movie...similar to Wilson Phillips in Bridesmaids or the Backstreet Boys in This is The End. A super fun cameo to cap off a (hopefully) actual good movie shouldn't be too much to ask, right?..........right?

^ Actually, I'm surprised Northern Star wasn't in her top ten most popular tracks already. After When You're Gone, Never Be The Same Again, and I Turn To You, wouldn't Northern Star be the next biggest hit in line?...by a pretty considerable margin? (...though I know First Day Of My Life was a considerable hit in certain markets...)

Hm. I wonder what role that would have been. Ivana Humpalot? I don't love the second and third Austin Powers films because I think the clever stuff was starting to get outweighed by the dud material...but there's no arguing that The Spy Who Shagged Me was a huge hit. It's interesting in retrospect that Geri would turn down that sort of opportunity...but then again, the Geri doc shows the sort of sky-is-the-limit ambitions she had immediately following the Spice Girls. Honestly, it's too bad the timing didn't pan out for the full five piece at the height of their characters to end up in an Austin Powers film. I know it couldn't happen that way. They hadn't exploded in America yet when the first film was shooting. Geri leaving, touring, and pregnancies would get in the way of any involvement in the second. But. Really, both the Spices and Austin Powers were so big on the union jack imagery and love of retro and camp...in some alternate universe, the group would have fit right in with the films' aesthetic. Granted, they might have ended up with machine gun boobs or something...

Taking a trip down memory lane. None of the girls ever became true film stars...but apparently there was something of a chance of that happening at one time. Wanted to take a look back at some of the film roles that might-have-been. Some of these are rumors. These are the ones I remember... The World is Not Enough. In the Geri documentary, Geri is seen getting ready to audition for this Bond film. It seems as though this would be the Elektra King role (not the part played by Denise Richards). As an aside, Mel C was heavily rumored at the time to be in the running to sing the theme song. While I'm not clear on if that was actually true, my understanding is the song is meant to be the perspective of Elektra...the role Geri lost out on. Charlie's Angels. Victoria's claimed she was runner-up for the role Lucy Liu ended up taking. Also...after Geri left the Spice Girls, the late night talk shows in the US claimed she was in the running to star in this. My guess is Geri's involvement was probably just rumors...an easy story to make up when news of Geri's departure and a Charlie's Angels film in the works were in the news at the same time. Therapy. What was intended to be Geri's starring vehicle...a rom com about a woman who falls in love with her therapist...never happened. If memory serves correctly, David Gordon Green was intended to direct this...until they just couldn't get enough interest to get the financing together. It's interesting he was involved...since he would go on to a lot of success with stuff like Pineapple Express and Halloween (2018). Side note. I've always guessed Geri's Getting Better b-side was meant to be for this movie. Superman Returns. Tabloid articles at the time thought Emma was up for Lois Lane...but on RuPaul's podcast, Emma said she was actually up for Kitty Kowalski. That part makes a lot more sense. The role is very similar to the 1978 Superman's Miss Teschmacher...Lex Luthor's sidekick who has a soft spot for Superman. Emma has something of a resemblance in looks and mannerisms to Teschmacher actress Valerie Perrine (something also pointed out by RuPaul). I've wondered if Emma did get cast, if the role would have remained "Miss Teschmacher" instead of changing the name for Parker Posey (who didn't resemble the original actress). The Pink Panther 2. Emma was rumored to be in the running for this...but I'm not sure this was ever confirmed. Quick note about Hercules. There's a very popular rumor that the girls were going to be the Muses who narrate the story, but this wasn't ever in the cards. They *were* asked to record I Won't Say I'm In Love for the soundtrack album, but the timing didn't work out. Anyway. What'd I miss...?

Yeah. Agreed. I do see the logic of the duet on paper. I'm sure the powers-that-be were very well aware that Mel C had completely turned her album's fortunes around...releasing a single version of her 3rd release off Northern Star that was a bit different than what was on the album (and then a fourth release that completely transformed the album version of the song). I'm sure that also played a role in the remix given to Emma's We're Not Gonna Sleep Tonight...which I think is 'fine'...but I find the album version to have more punch. Anyway. I think the inherent problem is...if there were ever a song that fit Victoria to a T, it was I Wish. It's perhaps a bit surprising that it's one of that album's tracks that she didn't have a hand in writing. I honestly can't imagine that song fitting anyone else better. And because of that, I don't think a duet with someone else was ever going to work.

^ While it did cross my mind that VB had been in a chart battle with Can't Get You Out of My Head, I don't believe that was intentional on Mel B's part at all. I only remember the chart battle because I'm the type of person who would post in a Spice Girls fan forum. But in general...considering how much Can't Get You Out of My Head outsold Not Such An Innocent Girl, I think the "chart battle" is very much a forgotten pop culture moment. CGYOOMH has become one of the definitive songs of its era. Plus, Kylie has worked with some of the same writers and producers as the Spices. I'm sure Mel's far more familiar with the song through all that. Besides. Mel can't even remember she released a cover of Word Up. I have serious doubts she remembers a failed chart battle that another group member had from 20 years ago...

Side note. While I consider I Wish the best thing Victoria recorded solo...and think it's criminal she never released it, I do think that duet version (which was supposedly going to be the single) was a total disaster. Her duet partner (can't remember the name...) is singing circles around her, using this opportunity as a vocal showcase...seemingly unaware that Victoria's cool, straightforward delivery is a large part of the song's appeal. His vocals could not sound more obviously tacked on. The added production elements are beyond unnecessary and are too quirky...interrupting the song's groove and making it very start-stop and awkward. Had they released this duet, it would have been the worst solo Spice single to that point by far. Actually, with the exception of Cosmic Shower (if that counts), I'm not sure there's a solo Spice single just in general that's worse than the I Wish duet...

Had the album sold better, I always thought a singles run of NSAIG - Mind Of Its Own - I Wish - IOU made the most sense. Maybe an IOU/Like That double single for the fourth and final release. But because the album and NSAIG performed below exceptionally high expectations, I do think the wisest course of action would have been to launch the album's best song as the second single...I Wish. If you've seemingly got just one more chance, go for broke, right? I do like Mind Of Its Own, though. I think the chorus is rather strong. People tend to be split over the spoken word bits...but I actually like that. To me, it not only works, it separates this single from the other more adult contemporary solo Spice singles of the time. Makes it unique. And even though I'd rather she released I Wish, I do understand the logic of going for Mind Of Its Own. The Spices were very good at releasing singles that showed the different sides of the group. Mind Of Its Own successfully showed us a different side of Victoria from the previous two singles. It was also the song she would be able to perform live the best. And after the intense choreography of the previous singles, maybe some live performances was the right way to go.

I know I just said I find it weird, but really, her playing songs from her latest album isn't necessarily a "bad" thing for me. I guess I'm talking more a public perception thing. The most recent time I saw her was the Rebel Heart tour. That set list basically went...open with four songs the crowd (by and large) didn't know. A few quick lines of Vogue. Two more songs the crowd didn't know. True Blue on a ukulele. And so on. I wouldn't say *I* didn't enjoy it. I'm a genuine fan. I knew everything she brought out. But the people I brought to the show and the people sitting around us were largely bewildered by it. The perception wasn't exactly helped by the fact she went on more than three hours late. I think there's a bit of this. When you're more than a decade and three albums past having hits...and you have pretty much the best back catalogue in pop, I think you kinda have to evaluate the balance of new stuff and hits at some point. Or not. Obviously, she's had an amazing touring career. Her crowds are getting smaller. That could be by choice. But her image has definitely been damaged in the past few years...and I'm not sure her directing her own movie is going to help that. All's I'm saying is...a hit-filled setlist of her doing what she does best might go a long way toward building her back up.

Oh, I completely agree with you. She has a phenomenal discography...though I don't think she'll ever do a full setlist of top to bottom hits. I'm a big fan, but I don't think I've been to a concert by another legendary artist who is quite as uninterested in their most famous material. I didn't get to catch her most recent Madame X tour...but...(sorry other fans), it's super weird to me that more than half of that setlist is made up of Madame X songs/other tracks that aren't her own hits when she has such an incredible background in pop. I'm not saying she shouldn't do any current album material. It's just...these albums aren't impacting the world on the level of Ray Of Light and Confessions at this point. There's been such damage to her reputation lately, I kinda think the way to rehab the image is to lean on the hits and finally give the people what they want. But. She's definitely not going to do that... Aaaaand. I say all that while acknowledging this seems to be an incredibly unpopular viewpoint among the fanbase...similar to my support of solo Spice songs at group gigs. Lol...

Oh. I forgot to give my Encore: 21. Emma and Geri recreate their 1999 chart battle by performing Lift Me Up and What I Am...at the same time. 22. Rodney 'Darkchild' Jerkins takes the stage and performs all his spoken word bits to a beat. 23. Geri gives a camping tutorial. 24. Special appearance by Sophie Ellis Bextor who dedicates a performance of Groovejet to "someone who couldn't be here tonight" 25. Special appearance by Westlife...who take a seat on barstools on the stage. They don't sing. The girls just stand uncomfortably close over them and angrily sing Voodoo at them. Lights out.

I remember on first hearing this album...I quite hilariously thought that maturity in her sound must just come from her turning 30. Now that I'm a few years past 30 myself, I'm like...yeah, 30...isn't...especially mature. I like Life In Mono overall. All That You'll Be and All I Need To Know are gorgeous. Take Me To Another Town and Undressing You are probably my two favorites. But it just doesn't have the sort of material that could set charts on fire...even in an alternate world that gave a fair shake to solo Spice releases. That's not necessarily a bad thing. She sounds lovely on all of it. Songs are pretty. It just is what it is. Outside of Downtown, Take Me To Another Town is probably the closest thing to having hit potential...but even that's not quite Free Me or Maybe. What's a little curious is potential hits were actually recorded for this era. The unreleased Crazy Beautiful is an ear worm. What we've heard of Ladylike is clearly a demo...but you can tell it was a draft of something that could have been great. There are others too. Yet...to me...the stronger material for this album (that was written by Emma, no less) got dumped in favor of five covers and decidedly more muted offerings. Emma only wrote 7 of the 14 songs on the Deluxe edition. Of course, by the time My Happy Place came along, nothing by a solo Spice was ever going to chart well...but I actually do think Baby Please Don't Stop and Too Many Teardrops sound like hits that just arrived too late.

Lol. Yeah. I mean. I'd agree that a crowd might be a bit lost with Forever album tracks, but several of their solo songs really aren't obscurities. At the very least, Never Be The Same Again and It's Raining Men were among the top 20 best selling songs of their year. If Wikipedia is to be believed, I Want You Back was the first time a female rapper hit #1 in the UK. There seems to be some significance to that. I just land at this...when I saw Fleetwood Mac, they did their solo hits. As I mentioned earlier, when I saw The Rolling Stones, they did their solo hits. So. To me, if the option is to fill up a good chunk of the setlist with album tracks that the girls may or may not remember the lyrics to...or pull from a few of the eight solo number ones, why be shy about going for the hits? But. I'll concede this. I'm basing all this on what I perceive the public remembers. Since I Turn To You was a big UK hit at the time, I assume people my age would remember it. Do they not? I get that some hit songs kinda get obscured over time. My guess was that When You're Gone would be better known to the masses than, say, Something Kinda Funny. If that's wrong, maybe they shouldn't do solo stuff.

I agree with the unpopular opinion on here that the solo songs could have a place. It's not like I think they should perform songs that barely made a ripple on the charts. It's just...it's a UK festival...and they straight up had a few of a given year's biggest hits as solo artists. If they're sitting on eight number one singles as solo performers...why not perform some of them? When I saw the Rolling Stones, they did their solo hits...and they're obviously far more famous as a group. I actually think it'd be really cool to see the full group do some of the solo hits. I'll do a Glastonbury setlist just based on what I think would get a crowd revved up the most. I'll do it as if Victoria isn't there. Also. I'll throw in a few guest appearances by people I think they could plausibly get. 1. Spice Up Your Life 2. Stop 3. Say You'll Be There 4. When You're Gone (appearance by Bryan Adams...duet with Mel C) 5. What Took You So Long (full group performance) 6. Mama 7. Too Much 8. Holler 9. I Want You Back (appearance by Missy Elliott...rearranged to make it more of a duet with Mel B) 10. Never Be The Same Again (full group...Missy Elliott performs rap in tribute to Left Eye) 11. instrumental dancer interlude - Out Of Your Mind 12. Never Give Up On The Good Times 13. Look At Me/It's Raining Men medley (full group performance) 14. I Turn To You (full group performance) 15. 2 Become 1 16. Pure Shores (appearance by All Saints alongside the Spice Girls) 17. Goodbye 18. Viva Forever 19. Who Do You Think You Are 20. Wannabe

I'm not naive enough to believe we're getting an album. But. Just saying...in some alternate universe, this lineup would be pretty close to what I'd choose out of her unreleased material for an album 4. I realize the jury's still a bit out on the songs we didn't hear in full, but this seems to mostly do a good job of weeding out the weaker songs on the 2016 album leak. I'd just keep the original mix of Man on the Mountain...and add Phenomenal Woman. I'd also add Back in Business...but that's just because I pointlessly carry a candle for a song that Geri probably dumped and promptly forgot years ago.

The US dance chart is a somewhat odd thing, though. This is the same chart where Mel C had success with I Turn To You...and Mel B's For Once In My Life got to #2. I know the chart description says that it's a national survey of club disc jockeys of the most played songs of the week. But. I don't know. Even though she struggles on the Billboard charts now, nearly every song Madonna has released in the past ten years has ended up at #1 on that chart. I'm not much of a club person. But I do have to wonder...were four different Madame X songs honestly the most played songs in American clubs for a week? Was For Once In My Life honestly the second most played song in American clubs at one time? Like I said. By and large, I wasn't there. Maybe they were. I just figured the crowds would be requesting remixes of the Billboard hits.

I apparently went on a whole ramble about the song in September 2019 without actually saying where I think it should have charted. Uh. Some similar stuff made the lower top 10 around that time. So. I'll go with that, I guess. Even though I like it, it doesn't command attention as an album launcher like Look At Me and It's Raining Men did. But. I will say...I do find the radio blacklisting she experienced to be really annoying. She had four solo number ones and another four top tens at that point. Her chart placings back then *always* far outperformed her level of radio support. Technically, that trend continued with Desire as her support was zilch. I guess we'll never know what happened in the biz, and if she just stepped on the wrong toes in the industry or what. But I don't like that her success was promptly ended by some forces in radio basically saying "okay, sweetie. We think you're done now."

Yeah. I was wondering what conversations were going on in her team that made her decide to stop the hangovers. My guess is her team noticed the reactions were getting pretty negative to the talking over the songs...and they'd rather just yank them down than recut them. There's also the possibility she had a crew contracted to edit all the videos a while back. They're done...and recutting isn't an option. So...choose not to post rather than deal with the comments section again? I guess it's also possible they're testing the water to see if the views for the Sunday videos would go up with only one post a week. She's close to 30K views on the latest vid...which is quite a bit more than any of her videos since the one she delivers boxes of...something?...to healthcare workers.

Was the US Maybe release another remix? I seem to vaguely remember that. Anyway. I'd agree with you that was probably Simon's US plan of attack. But I'd find that approach to be muddled as she wasn't doing anything to push herself in the dance direction. She was performing the regular versions of the songs and talking in interviews about loving the album's 60s sound. Also, if the Free Me remix had somehow actually taken off, it would have been something of a bait-and-switch for anyone buying the album based off the remix...and finding the album was nothing like it.

^ Yup! In the US, I think she also did a performance on a short-lived Tony Danza talk show. As great as the album is...and as wonderful as the era's videos are, her team's strategy in the US was super weird. What was released to American radio/MTV was a dance remix of Free Me...which wasn't at all indicative of the album. (the only place I ever saw/heard it was in an ad on The TV Guide Channel) Then, she didn't even perform that version of the song on shows...instead doing the original. As far as I can remember, no version of Maybe was ever released, though we did get that one performance on The View. I was always a little disappointed in it...because despite the stage in front of a larger American audience, the performance, energy, and general fabulousness feels scaled down from her UK appearances (this was also true of Geri's US Look at Me performances...the full set of dancers not have passports?). Ultimately, I wish her team just had the confidence to give Maybe and Free Me a fair shot. They may not have taken off, but it wasn't too long after this that a few Brits got US hits off 60s-sounding songs. So. Anyway. The interview bookings, they mostly got it right...though it was an oddball move to put her on ultra-conservative Fox News. This publicity tour also saw yet another disastrous "Spice Girl goes on Howard Stern" appearance...

Uhhh. I think Mel B...mostly...jumps the gun. But there have been cases I'd consider...wishful thinking. I can't remember the literal litany of things Mel B has claimed over the years. But I could give a few that I don't think were ever truly in the cards. In 2001, she claimed the group would continue releasing Forever singles in 2002. Knowing the behind-the-scenes of this now, this definitely wasn't ever true. After the first reunion tour, Mel claimed she was recording a song with Janet Jackson and that she'd join her on tour. Janet's reps basically laughed this off as absurd. (she also said she was working with Missy again during this time...but I'll accept that as more plausible) Then, there was Mel's claim that the full group would be at the royal wedding. Anyway. A lot of it's harmless. Mel claiming GEM is about to choose and release their single may not...totally be in the pipeline, but it raises her profile for a moment. Nobody (except for fans) seem to remember those claims or hold her to it. But. Stuff like the Janet Jackson and royal wedding claims are so easily disprovable...I think its a little embarrassing. I also have to assume it's not great for the group dynamics that nothing can be discussed in private without Mel telling it to the world (...like the announcement to an entire stadium about an Australian tour)

With Right Back At Ya, I still think it's worthy of being on the album. But...there are things that irrationally irk me about it. It probably bothers me more than it should...that Emma's ad-libs are copied and pasted from the first chorus to the second. I also don't like the vocal rearrangements of some of the verses...mainly Victoria's "...taste of what we all can achieve" and "...dreams into our reality". The fanbase had already been listening to the live RBAY for ten months at this point...and the album version has never sounded right to me. I do think the chorus is the stuff of a classic pop gem, which is why I'd say it still belongs on the album...though I think the Darkchild team did a lazy job with it. The leaked pop version sounds incomparably better to my ears. I'd agree that version wouldn't fit naturally with the rest of Forever as it is. But if there was insistence on giving all the new material an American vibe, I actually think Jam n' Lewis would have done a much better job in updating the sound but letting the song keep its spirit.