im currently involved in a long running argument (:lol:) on digital spy regarding SAW, this guy reckons that SAW invented Hi NRg and created dance...:lol: mind you he also thinks that indie started in the mid 90's :lol:

 

Ironically that's when it stopped. The rise of Oasis and the death of Creation...

Ironically that's when it stopped. The rise of Oasis and the death of Creation...

 

indie wise i presume you mean?... i think hip hop/r n b and dance had still alot of growth left.

That's a good version of Voyage Voyage!

 

One of my fave songs ever :wub:

im currently involved in a long running argument (:lol:) on digital spy regarding SAW, this guy reckons that SAW invented Hi NRg and created dance...:lol: mind you he also thinks that indie started in the mid 90's :lol:

 

FAR from it... SAW simply jumped on the HiNRG bandwagon (which had been on the run for a good 10 years by the time SAW discovered the power of the pink pound)... for the creators, look to Bobby Orlando, Lime.... even Giorgio Moroder... SAW inventing it? No lol... whoever's arguing that is waaaay off the mark, Rob. I'd suggest even a tad retarded if he/she genuinely thinks dance didn't exist before them :wacko:

 

And indie.... yikes... I'd say indie as we know it reared its beautiful head in 82 or 83.

 

FAR from it... SAW simply jumped on the HiNRG bandwagon (which had been on the run for a good 10 years by the time SAW discovered the power of the pink pound)... for the creators, look to Bobby Orlando, Lime.... even Giorgio Moroder... SAW inventing it? No lol... whoever's arguing that is waaaay off the mark, Rob. I'd suggest even a tad retarded if he/she genuinely thinks dance didn't exist before them :wacko:

 

And indie.... yikes... I'd say indie as we know it reared its beautiful head in 82 or 83.

 

going off his username he was born in '74, so hed be a young teen when SAW became prominant, i think its a clear case of 'music was best in my time' , ie when they discovered it. hes a fan of, so is imho guilty of rose coloured spectacles and youth.

 

however i did find it a tad irritating when he insisted that they influenced all dance that followed. i mean, as if all the great creative dance artists were influenced by these sideline pop act...lol

going off his username he was born in '74, so hed be a young teen when SAW became prominant, i think its a clear case of 'music was best in my time' , ie when they discovered it. hes a fan of, so is imho guilty of rose coloured spectacles and youth.

 

however i did find it a tad irritating when he insisted that they influenced all dance that followed. i mean, as if all the great creative dance artists were influenced by these sideline pop act...lol

 

Jesus this guy sounds like a right clueless prat.... :lol: He's only a couple of years younger than me FFS, and I certainly know where Dance/Techno and HiNRG came from.... And it certainly had NOTHING to do with Watertw@t any more than the creation of 2-Tone Ska did..... :lol:

 

Direct him here to this thread, Rob... I think we need words

Direct him here to this thread, Rob... I think we need words

 

i was thinking of that, but he has disabled pm's... i advertise this place in my avatar... maybe hes already visited.

 

mind you, hes debated well enough, hes not got nasty, bitchy, insulting but kept a calm head. i like that.

I watched an interview with Waterman (and yes, the millions of gold discs backdrop was there too!) and he had a lightbulb moment when he realised early and pre-teen girls and gay men liked had distinctly similar tastes in music, so it was an easy move to bridge the two together. And, like Rob has said, this involved taking the Hi NRG sound into a more palatable sound that was easy for kids and radio to consume.

 

I think he had a degree of music ability too, for every Sinitta, there was a "Roadblock". And when challenged by the likes of Bananarama (it's reported that Pete said they were by far and away the most difficult act he ever worked with), he struck near-genius with the ridiculously brilliant "I Heard A Rumour".

how many copies do you need to sell to get a gold disc?..cos in his SAW days rick astleys 'never gonna give you up' appears to be their biggest seller and that only grossed 75,000. i think steps (:puke2:)sold more...

how many copies do you need to sell to get a gold disc?..cos in his SAW days rick astleys 'never gonna give you up' appears to be their biggest seller and that only grossed 75,000. i think steps (:puke2:)sold more...

for records released before 01/01/89 Gold was 500,000, from 01/01/89 it was reduced to 400,000. Platinum was 1,000,000 reducing to 600,000 and Silver 250,000 reducing to 200,000. The BPI will award a certification award (needed to order the Gold etc discs) to any party involved in a record that qualifies for an award - so that can be artist, writer, producer and quite possibly promoter. If so for the latter, Pete Waterman may have qualified for discs going back to the 70s. His biggest selling single that he played a part in from SAW / PWL onwards is Heartbeat/Tragedy by Steps which sold 1.15m copies. That would have qualified him for 3 discs (as producer) - Silver, Gold and Platinum. Another example of how to notch up a number of discs - his part in the Gold (Greatest Hits) album by Steps would have got him a Silver, Gold, Platinum, 2 x Platinum, 3 x Platinum and 4 x Platinum discs, a total of 6 discs for that one album alone. Steps were awarded a total of 37 discs for silver, gold, platinum or multi-platinum sales of albums and singles and Pete Waterman would have qualified for those 37 discs by virtue of producing them all.

 

I'd imagine he has a massive wall to house everything!

for records released before 01/01/89 Gold was 500,000, from 01/01/89 it was reduced to 400,000. Platinum was 1,000,000 reducing to 600,000 and Silver 250,000 reducing to 200,000. The BPI will award a certification award (needed to order the Gold etc discs) to any party involved in a record that qualifies for an award - so that can be artist, writer, producer and quite possibly promoter. If so for the latter, Pete Waterman may have qualified for discs going back to the 70s. His biggest selling single that he played a part in from SAW / PWL onwards is Heartbeat/Tragedy by Steps which sold 1.15m copies. That would have qualified him for 3 discs (as producer) - Silver, Gold and Platinum. Another example of how to notch up a number of discs - his part in the Gold (Greatest Hits) album by Steps would have got him a Silver, Gold, Platinum, 2 x Platinum, 3 x Platinum and 4 x Platinum discs, a total of 6 discs for that one album alone. Steps were awarded a total of 37 discs for silver, gold, platinum or multi-platinum sales of albums and singles and Pete Waterman would have qualified for those 37 discs by virtue of producing them all.

 

I'd imagine he has a massive wall to house everything!

 

so in reality they are pretty meaningless. tbh id rate music industry awards more, especially ones voted for by people within the industry.

so in reality they are pretty meaningless. tbh id rate music industry awards more, especially ones voted for by people within the industry.

I would have thought the most meaningful ones were those awarded because the public had bought the single / album. Industry awards given by those voted by people within the industry tend to be of the back slapping type... both awards can be manipulated, of course - the former often by hype and the latter by the need to feel loved by your peers (usually accompanied by some lavish ceremony that involves loads of booze and whatever else is on the go...)

 

I would have thought the most meaningful ones were those awarded because the public had bought the single / album. Industry awards given by those voted by people within the industry tend to be of the back slapping type... both awards can be manipulated, of course - the former often by hype and the latter by the need to feel loved by your peers (usually accompanied by some lavish ceremony that involves loads of booze and whatever else is on the go...)

 

Personally I rate the BRITs ...... any organisation where they threaten to give Simon Cowell a Lifetime Achievement Award (in 2009 ..... before they gave it to the far more deserving Pet Shop Boys); where as a response the likes of Sir Paul McCartney; David Bowie; Pete Townsend; Sting; Robert Smith (The Cure); Paul Weller; Arctic Monkeys; Blur & Manic Street Preachers threatened to give their's back in disgust/protest is no bad thing.

 

Simon Cowell: "I don't like The Brits, they're too sarcastic. They don't represent what's right in Britain at the moment."

 

My goodness, Simon Cowell makes Pete Waterman seem like Ahmet Ertegun in comparison.

Simon Cowell: "I don't like The Brits, they're too sarcastic. They don't represent what's right in Britain at the moment."

 

And I suppose Sir Cowell's vile kareoke show is the right way to represent British music eh? What a cock!

 

I fully understand and respect those that resent SAW and their adverse contribution to pop culture, but for me, I can't help feeling somewhat liberated by their junk-food pop muzak. I do draw the line at Big Fun, however...

And I suppose Sir Cowell's vile kareoke show is the right way to represent British music eh? What a cock!

 

I fully understand and respect those that resent SAW and their adverse contribution to pop culture, but for me, I can't help feeling somewhat liberated by their junk-food pop muzak. I do draw the line at Big Fun, however...

 

...and i can see the appeal of SAW tracks back in the late 80's to a new (young) fresh generation of music lovers wanting to escape the more serious, adult, music. tbh i see SAWs popularity amongst the young as a rebelion against the more serious side of pop that had dominated for ten years or so... 'id rather jack' highlights this... awful though it was by 2 chavettes, it kinda had a point.

Pete Waterman was used to his acts being puppets who'd lap up any old rubbish he gave them at the time - he was used to working with Sonia, Kylie et al - he'd met more than his match with Bananarama, who simply laughed at the songs he gave them (especially when they realised even Sonia had turned them down...). His idea of 'difficult' is a female with opinions - something he simply hadn't encountered at this point.

 

As for Cowell getting a Lifetime Achievement Brit - whaaaaaat???? His place in musical history will be EXACTLY the same as SAW's.... a period that people curl their toes at when remembering. Simon Cowell's knowledge of the art of music could be written on the back of a stamp - with room left over. Clueless doesn't even come into it - yes, he recognises musical trends, but no, he hasn't the foggiest about music as an artform - which it is, right? To him, like SAW, it's a dizzying production line of increasingly dull, bland and faceless acts who simply warble what a sheep-like public want at the moment. EXACTLY what SAW did at the time. But at least SAW had a full knowledge of musical genres and wrote actual songs - unlike Cowell.

 

Rob - perhaps this misguided person claiming SAW invented dance music and HiNRG is Pete Waterman himself? Because Waterman thinks the only thing SAW didn't invent was the wheel.....

...and i can see the appeal of SAW tracks back in the late 80's to a new (young) fresh generation of music lovers wanting to escape the more serious, adult, music. tbh i see SAWs popularity amongst the young as a rebelion against the more serious side of pop that had dominated for ten years or so... 'id rather jack' highlights this... awful though it was by 2 chavettes, it kinda had a point.

 

What..?? Even though it was actually written and produced by middle-aged men..... :rolleyes: Come on Rob... Obviously the irony is lost on you.....

 

What do you mean the more "serious" side of Pop, what...? Adam and the Ants?? Madness..??? Oh yeah, they really took themselves so seriously...... :lol: And Morrissey could be a positive scream when he wanted to be... Just listen to the wit and sarcasm in much of The Smiths' output....

 

Speaking as part of that New, young, fresh generation of music lovers, I feel a bit insulted by that.... I'm sorry, but in the words of Morrissey, "The Music he constantly plays/says nothing to me about my life".. :P

I spent the 80s being subjected to the Sting/Collins/Knopfler brand of corporate rock BS but that didn't turn me onto the disposable cack that SAW turned out.

 

TBH I don't think that SAW was directed at the likes of us Grim. At 18 in 1987 I was well over the hill (I think you would have been 15 or 16?) and we were the wrong gender.

 

IIRC SAW was directed (mainly) at 13-15 year old girls and under. (and the vast majority of members of buzzjack would have lapped it up)

What..?? Even though it was actually written and produced by middle-aged men..... :rolleyes: Come on Rob... Obviously the irony is lost on you.....

 

What do you mean the more "serious" side of Pop, what...? Adam and the Ants?? Madness..??? Oh yeah, they really took themselves so seriously...... :lol: And Morrissey could be a positive scream when he wanted to be... Just listen to the wit and sarcasm in much of The Smiths' output....

 

Speaking as part of that New, young, fresh generation of music lovers, I feel a bit insulted by that.... I'm sorry, but in the words of Morrissey, "The Music he constantly plays/says nothing to me about my life".. :P

 

i have already said on ds that it falls down as an argument BECAUSE it was written by middle aged men..

 

well pop in the punk/post punk era was more serious as a whole then the drivel SAW churned out... im suggesting that in general a new generation of teeny girls (and young gay lads) prefered SAW to the smiths... every so often in pop , pop took a step for a new generation. it did it in the early 60's when the beatles started beat, a decade later when a new generation embraced glam and again when a new generation embraced punk.. i see the SAW revolution of the late 80's in the same way... the previous generation deserting the singles charts and a new generation 'taking over'...