Ehhh I don't understand.

 

If Nominations would be separate from Reservation/Confirmation, couldn't people just manipulate the rule by trying to get other entries disqualified? Let's say someone wanted, or was likely, to send the new Gorillaz song. (it's awful, so they wouldn't anyway) Couldn't I nominate that song as an attempt to block it from being sent? Not necessarily because I want it for myself, but because I consider it too cheap/hyped. (it's not, this is a bad example)

 

Or am I wrong, and nominating would be the same as confirming?

 

I do sort of understand the basic concept behind this, I'm just not sure of the exact details, it seems a bit complicated, Not sure I'd like to be the first one to try this out. :lol:

from what I could work out, you send the name of the entry that you want to send to the host - this is not a confirmation merely a registration of interest - if the same song comes up 1 or 2 more times (if obviously cheap) or 3 or 4 more times (if not so cheap), it instantly gets put onto the banlist

 

Thinking about it properly, it could all be a bit confusing...

 

How about this as an alternative proposal; artist reservation/confirmation stays exactly the same as it always has done, but to construct the monthly banlist each contestant PM's the name of TWO songs and artists to the host, that we feel are too cheap for the contest/don't warrant being there - any song that gets 3 or more nominations is put onto the banlist, along with the usual top 3 from last month...if there are no songs that get 3 nominations they can't have been all that cheap in the first place and no extra banlist is needed. This way, nobody is stepping on any toes, it's still first come first served as soon as the artist reservation thread opens, the mods don't have the extra power to decide the banlist - it's a democratic vote from all contestants which helps to weed out the cheap and uninspired and it shuts up the people who complain about the cheap winners as obviously nobody else would have seen them as cheap if they were alone in nominating it for the banlist. Leave this process open for maybe 3 days after which the host announces which songs have made the banlist and simultaneously opens the artist reservation thread - also this way we would always have at least a 3 day gap as such between contests rather than rushing out of one and straight into another. So the ONLY different thing about BJSC would be the 3 day democratic construction of a banlist - everything else would remain the same, yet it would stop the uber-cheap entries.

from what I could work out, you send the name of the entry that you want to send to the host - this is not a confirmation merely a registration of interest - if the same song comes up 1 or 2 more times (if obviously cheap) or 3 or 4 more times (if not so cheap), it instantly gets put onto the banlist

 

Thinking about it properly, it could all be a bit confusing...

 

How about this as an alternative proposal; artist reservation/confirmation stays exactly the same as it always has done, but to construct the monthly banlist each contestant PM's the name of TWO songs and artists to the host, that we feel are too cheap for the contest/don't warrant being there - any song that gets 3 or more nominations is put onto the banlist, along with the usual top 3 from last month...if there are no songs that get 3 nominations they can't have been all that cheap in the first place and no extra banlist is needed. This way, nobody is stepping on any toes, it's still first come first served as soon as the artist reservation thread opens, the mods don't have the extra power to decide the banlist - it's a democratic vote from all contestants which helps to weed out the cheap and uninspired and it shuts up the people who complain about the cheap winners as obviously nobody else would have seen them as cheap if they were alone in nominating it for the banlist. Leave this process open for maybe 3 days after which the host announces which songs have made the banlist and simultaneously opens the artist reservation thread - also this way we would always have at least a 3 day gap as such between contests rather than rushing out of one and straight into another. So the ONLY different thing about BJSC would be the 3 day democratic construction of a banlist - everything else would remain the same, yet it would stop the uber-cheap entries.

That seems like a very good idea on first sight! And having this gap is especially good imo.

Edited January 21, 201015 yr by Pavgleek

as far as I can see it keeps the essence of what the other Rich was proposing (for helping to reduce cheap) yet simplifies the whole process + gives us a little gap each month too (which obviously can be extended if we are galloping ahead of schedule again) :D

from what I could work out, you send the name of the entry that you want to send to the host - this is not a confirmation merely a registration of interest - if the same song comes up 1 or 2 more times (if obviously cheap) or 3 or 4 more times (if not so cheap), it instantly gets put onto the banlist

 

Thinking about it properly, it could all be a bit confusing...

 

How about this as an alternative proposal; artist reservation/confirmation stays exactly the same as it always has done, but to construct the monthly banlist each contestant PM's the name of TWO songs and artists to the host, that we feel are too cheap for the contest/don't warrant being there - any song that gets 3 or more nominations is put onto the banlist, along with the usual top 3 from last month...if there are no songs that get 3 nominations they can't have been all that cheap in the first place and no extra banlist is needed. This way, nobody is stepping on any toes, it's still first come first served as soon as the artist reservation thread opens, the mods don't have the extra power to decide the banlist - it's a democratic vote from all contestants which helps to weed out the cheap and uninspired and it shuts up the people who complain about the cheap winners as obviously nobody else would have seen them as cheap if they were alone in nominating it for the banlist. Leave this process open for maybe 3 days after which the host announces which songs have made the banlist and simultaneously opens the artist reservation thread - also this way we would always have at least a 3 day gap as such between contests rather than rushing out of one and straight into another. So the ONLY different thing about BJSC would be the 3 day democratic construction of a banlist - everything else would remain the same, yet it would stop the uber-cheap entries.

 

I'm just wondering if this could still be open to being abused.......like what if a group of people decided to vote a countries song as cheap just because they didn't like the person, because they couldn't get the song for themselves or because their country has won so many times so they wanted to make things difficult?

 

I'd hope such things wouldn't happen but I'd still be a bit cautious......what if people started not voting based on cheapness?

 

On top of all this, I don't think alot of people listen to other peoples songs before the semis (although maybe I'm wrong) so you might not get many votes.....although I suppose if a songs so well known they'd probably know it was entered...

Edited January 21, 201015 yr by Sabrewulf238

I'm just wondering if this could still be open to being abused.......like what if a group of people decided to vote a countries song as cheap just because they didn't like the person, because they couldn't get the song for themselves or because their country has won so many times so they wanted to make things difficult?

 

I'd hope such things wouldn't happen but I'd still be a bit cautious......what if people started not voting based on cheapness?

 

On top of all this, I don't think alot of people listen to other peoples songs before the semis (although maybe I'm wrong) so you might not get many votes.....although I suppose if a songs so well known they'd probably know it was entered...

......

 

I'd like to hope nobody would do something like this in the first place, but maybe people should just hold back revealing their potential entries for the contest in their National Final/anywhere else until the banlist nomination had closed and artist reservation opens - if nobody knows what you intend to send, then they can't vote against your proposed entry as a personal vendetta - besides, I can't think of 3 people on here who would gang up together to get an entry banned :unsure: it should be a personal thing with no external input in my opinion. It would look a bit suspect if Mdice or someone revealed a completely unknown song/artist that they were going to send before the banlist voting started and it got 3 votes...I think the posters in question for voting it as cheap (which obviously would have been done as a personal issue instead of a song issue) should be named and shamed in this case :heehee:

 

with regard to your other point, the cheap songs will already be known before the vote opens - these are not the obscure ones popping up in people's National Final threads, these are the songs that we know already like On A Mission, Try Sleeping With A Broken Heart etc...which somebody would inevitably try to send anyway despite knowning full well it's a completely pointless exercise other than to get a good result...

 

we could trial it once at least, and if it was clear that people had abused it (i.e. obviously inspired entries had received 3 votes), void all of the nominations and results and just carry on as normal

Seconded, it's an awful idea.

 

The current Res/Confirm system is fine. There is no need to fix it.

For once I agree with Silas! :o It's all too complicated, and this current way is easier for new/ish members too.

For once I agree with Silas! :o It's all too complicated, and this current way is easier for new/ish members too.

Who said life is easy? :kink:

I don't think my propsosal is at all complicated (PM'ing a host with two songs that you feel are cheap in order to help construct a banlist) - it could be open to manipulation, but I trust the people in this contest not to use their nominations for personal reasons and if this was obviously happening (with completely obscure unknown songs that somebody had been vocally considering sending being suggested for banning), void these people's nominations or something :lol:

with regard to your other point, the cheap songs will already be known before the vote opens - these are not the obscure ones popping up in people's National Final threads, these are the songs that we know already like On A Mission, Try Sleeping With A Broken Heart etc...which somebody would inevitably try to send anyway despite knowning full well it's a completely pointless exercise other than to get a good result...

Personally, I don't see how Alicia Keys would ever be a surefire winner, even with that song. Her fanbase in BJSC probably consists of me, Simon, Jack, Aled (the usual 'R&B crowd') and now you. R&B/Soul will never be cheap in this contest, too many people dismiss it on the count of it being from that genre. They just don't like it.

 

But anyway, I'm still not convinced. I think it'll get rid of too many of these uninspired, but not cheap, entries. Like things that are mentioned on Popjustice, they may get more than 3 nominations, but won't necessarily be universally known here.

Personally, I don't see how Alicia Keys would ever be a surefire winner, even with that song. Her fanbase in BJSC probably consists of me, Simon, Jack, Aled (the usual 'R&B crowd') and now you. R&B/Soul will never be cheap in this contest, too many people dismiss it on the count of it being from that genre. They just don't like it.

 

But anyway, I'm still not convinced. I think it'll get rid of too many of these uninspired, but not cheap, entries. Like things that are mentioned on Popjustice, they may get more than 3 nominations, but won't necessarily be universally known here.

 

I could really see it doing incredibly well, I think most people are already aware of the song, fans of Alicia or not...plus it's definitely one of her more poppy thsan R&B moments

 

fair point - like I said, I don't have a solution, just many suggestions :lol: wouldn't your own mods proposals of banning all of the playlists/charts and disqualifying people who send something uninspired or cheap be much more harsh than the possibility of something relatively unknown yet uninspired not making it though?

I could really see it doing incredibly well, I think most people are already aware of the song, fans of Alicia or not...

 

fair point - like I said, I don't have a solution, just many suggestions :lol:

I suppose, it's managed to go top 20 in the Multichart, but it's not a huge threat in my opinion.

 

Your suggestion is still a good one, I just don't think there's a fool proof way of implementing a cheap ban fairly, which doesn't have loopholes and isn't open to manipulation. Which is why I'm not exactly fully behind this concept. It's been going on for ages, just more frequently lately. Ever since Katy Perry's win it's been about getting the freshest leak that people anticipate will be big, whether that happens or not. (Brandy, VV Brown, Kesha, Eva Simons, Alphabeat, Ellie, Marina) You could even add Lily Allen and Royksopp/Robyn if you're pushing it, but those were mostly 'hot leaks'. It's just the state we've got to, people will see a country like Mdice get all these wins and decide going for this sort of entry is the best way to win.

Your suggestion is still a good one, I just don't think there's a fool proof way of implementing a cheap ban fairly, which doesn't have loopholes and isn't open to manipulation. Which is why I'm not exactly fully behind this concept. It's been going on for ages, just more frequently lately. Ever since Katy Perry's win it's been about getting the freshest leak that people anticipate will be big, whether that happens or not. (Brandy, VV Brown, Kesha, Eva Simons, Alphabeat, Ellie, Marina) You could even add Lily Allen and Royksopp/Robyn if you're pushing it, but those were mostly 'hot leaks'. It's just the state we've got to, people will see a country like Mdice get all these wins and decide going for this sort of entry is the best way to win.

 

I completely agree with you, it's impossible to implement anything that would be 100% fair, but I do think this would be a hell of a lot fairer than the current proposals of blanket banning and people having their entries potentially disqualified for being too uninspired - at least this way nobody could accuse the mods of manipulating the contest for their own benefit

I still think that system is incredibly flawed considering how easy it would be to lie. :/

in that case, I'm all out of other suggestions :lol: I guess the easiest thing would be to change nothing at all...all of the possible changes have potential flaws, but then so do the current long standing rules - how easy is it currently to block somebody's possible entry by reserving it throughout the artist reservation stage despite having no intention to send it? yet people do it, and it works - but it's definitely a flaw

 

I challenge anybody to come up with a system that couldn't be at all manipulated, but is also completely fair and democratic! I don't think there is one though

I still think that system is incredibly flawed considering how easy it would be to lie. :/

 

Lie about what?

 

Sorry for being thick...by the way Rich I like the idea, although maybe a ban on Top 40 songs would be needed on top of it.

Lie about what?

 

Sorry for being thick...by the way Rich I like the idea, although maybe a ban on Top 40 songs would be needed on top of it.

 

I don't know if anybody's ever confirmed anything from the current top 40 during the relevant stage of the contest have they? didn't Love Story and Riverside both enter the charts during the semi final/final stages...

 

I think Ben means it would be too easy for people to nominate songs that aren't cheap/uninspired but try to block songs because of personal vendettas/not wanting to see them in the contest etc...but this has happened for the last few contests anyway, via blocking artists in the artist reservation thread - same concept, different execution

 

e.g. if somebody expressed an interest in a National Final thread to send *thinks of somebody obscure and random* Travis and I reserved Travis out of spite - they couldn't then be sent by the person that wanted to send them - that only takes one person to throw a spanner in the works though, this would need at least three

I don't know if anybody's ever confirmed anything from the current top 40 during the relevant stage of the contest have they? didn't Love Story and Riverside both enter the charts during the semi final/final stages...

 

I think Ben means it would be too easy for people to nominate songs that aren't cheap/uninspired but try to block songs because of personal vendettas/not wanting to see them in the contest etc...but this has happened for the last few contests anyway, via blocking artists in the artist reservation thread - same concept, different execution

 

e.g. if somebody expressed an interest in a National Final thread to send *thinks of somebody obscure and random* Travis and I reserved Travis out of spite - they couldn't then be sent by the person that wanted to send them - that only takes one person to throw a spanner in the works though, this would need at least three

 

Very true. Under the current system it would be possible to just keep an artist reserved until the last minute to stop them being entered. This way, it would require several people to do so, and unless something was particularly uninspired I can't see a group of people conspiring to do this.

RE: Ban List,

 

I would suggest that the mods post a starter list directly after final results with a poll so people can vote on the mod's suggestions for the ban list. If a certain % of voters agree that song x should be banned, then it'll make the final list. Any suggestions for songs that the mods have missed out can be posted within the thread and if enough people agree with the suggestion then it'll be put onto the list.

 

That way everything that makes the final list has been put their democratically and there can be no accusations of power abuse. Which everyone seems to love crying here the moment one of us even sneezes :rolleyes:

 

 

RE: AF Rule - Extension

 

I propose the following amendment to my original proposal to ban all current era album tracks of all AF's:

 

Extend the AF ban to cover all singles not just the first two from an era, and impose a ban of 2months on album tracks. For example; Sweet 7 is released on March 8th, all the tracks on it would be ineligible for entry until May 8th. After May 8th only the singles would remain ineligible for entry. The theory behind this is, some album tracks may be discovered via the contest, but Singles 90% of the time aren't. [Very few people would have first heard Push The Button or Hole In The Head through my I and V entries]

 

 

 

RE: DSQ Proposal

 

All songs on the Radio 1 A or B list and in the iTunes top40 at the start of confirmation are ineligible for entry. These song's aren't discoveries or inspired choices. I know that this isn't always the case for our international members, but statistically there are more UK-Based members of BJSC. No songs would be disqualified during the course of the contest if they at any point entered one of these lists. However a % deduction in votes would be made on the following basis:

 

Radio 1 A list: 5% Deduction

Radio 1 B List: 2.5% Deduction

iTunes #1: 25% Deduction

iTunes Top3: 15% Deduction

iTunes #4 & #5: 12.5% Deduction

iTunes #6 - #10: 10% Deduction

iTunes #11 - #15: 7.5% Deduction

iTunes #15 - #20: 5% Deduction

iTunes #21 - #30: 2.5% Deduction

iTunes #31 - #40: 1% Deduction

 

Penalty would be applied at both SF and Final stage. The iTunes position would be determined by its average position over the 48hours prior to the closing of voting as determined by this thread

 

Example: If entry X was placed on the Radio 1 B list during the Semi's the song would incur a 2.5% reduction in it's score. If it moved up to the A list during the final week it would have 5% deducted from it's final score.

 

If entry Y was on the Radio 1 A list during the Semi's it would get a 5% reduction. If it was released at the start of Finals week and it's average position on the iTunes chart for the 48hours prior to the closing of the voting was #16 it would get a 5% reduction. If entry Y was still on the Radio 1 A-List during finals week it would receive a further 5% reduction making it's total penalty for the finals 10%

 

I'm confused. I thought this extra system was to weed out the cheap entries? And then reservations would go on as planned. Thus, by your logic, it gives people two opportunities to block artists / songs based on personal vendettas / what they consider cheap.

 

I don't want to seem dramatic or anything, but a lot of these suggestions / changes seem so unnecessary. Some are completely necessary, but it seems people just want to change things for the sake of changing things. And if this contest becomes too complex, I'm going to probably dropout because I really do not have the time I used to.