David Cameron: "We need to make Britain a reponsible society"

 

David Cameron has said the case of two young boys tortured in Doncaster was not an "isolated incident of evil" but symptomatic of wider social problems.

 

The Tory leader said the "truly awful" incident meant people must ask "deep questions" about social breakdown.

 

In a speech in Kent, he said this was a seminal incident, likening it to the cases of Baby Peter and Jamie Bulger.

 

Labour accused Mr Cameron of "tarring" the people of Britain by "seizing on one absolutely horrific crime".

 

Mr Cameron also used the speech to defend tax breaks for marriage, saying the policy was not "outdated" and the Tory election manifesto would be the most "family friendly" a party had ever produced.

 

The Tory leader was speaking after two brothers - aged 10 and 11 at the time - were sentenced to a minimum detention of five years for the April 2009 attack on two boys aged nine and 11 in Edlington, near Doncaster.

 

The Tory leader said he would not flinch from raising the case as he believed it was symptomatic of levels of social breakdown in Britain.

 

"I think when things like this happen it is right to stand back, reflect and ask ourselves some deep questions about what is going wrong in our society," he told an audience at a community centre in Gillingham.

 

Mr Cameron denied that his frequent references to a "broken Britain" was an over-statement and "terrible crimes" such as those which had happened in Doncaster could not be ignored.

 

"I don't think it is right every time one of these events takes place to say that it is just some isolated incident of evil that we should look away from and forget about."

 

"Are we going to do that every time there is a Jamie Bulger or a Baby Peter or a Ben Kinsella or a Gary Newlove or what has happened in Doncaster? We shouldn't. We should ask about what has gone wrong with our society and what we are going to do about it."

 

And he hit back at critics who have accused him of exploiting the Doncaster case for political ends, saying: "I think it is right to raise it in a responsible way and it is right to have this debate about how we can strengthen our society."

 

Mr Cameron has accused Prime Minister Gordon Brown of a "cover-up" for refusing to publish the full text of a serious case review into the Doncaster attack, rather than the executive summary.

 

He said the publication of summaries of past serious case reviews had not led to action on the ground.

 

Seven children known to Doncaster Council have died in the borough since 2004, prompting serious case reviews, Ofsted inspections and a government investigation.

 

Treasury minister Liam Byrne said people were entitled to be "white with rage" over what happened in Doncaster but he added: "When people read what Mr Cameron is saying today, they will see this is quite an unpleasant speech.

 

"What Mr Cameron appears to be trying to do is seizing on one absolutely horrific crime and almost tarring the people of Doncaster, if not the people of Britain, with the same kind of standards and I think that people will recoil from that."

 

Gordon Brown has insisted lessons would be learned from the summary of the report into the Edlington attack.

 

Labour said the NSPCC had backed the decision not to publish the full serious case, saying "sensitive information must be kept confidential to protect vulnerable children".

 

Responding to claims that the report's executive summary did not accurately reflect its contents, Liam Byrne said that if that was the case the summary should be rewritten.

 

I couldn't help but laugh. Not to mention that Bulger came about under a Conservative government, but the fact he still insists that £40 a week or whatever he's proposing we give to married couples would bring an end to these sorts of things? I fear his inevitable minority government more and more with each passing day.

I couldn't help but laugh. Not to mention that Bulger came about under a Conservative government, but the fact he still insists that £40 a week or whatever he's proposing we give to married couples would bring an end to these sorts of things? I fear his inevitable minority government more and more with each passing day.

 

Giving £40 a week to married couples won't end social problems, he is deluded if he thinks that

 

The parents of these 2 who carried out the attack were letting the kids get drunk on cider at the age of 9 in the house, will giving them an extra £40 a week make them better parents ? will it hell, it would just be more money spent on drink

 

 

This is really just another example of how some people should just be castrated or sterilized tbh so they cant have children that they can abuse physically or mentally.... These kids were brought up in a house where violence was an everyday occurrence, a NORM, so, Jesus, it's little wonder what happened happened.... These so-called "Parents" should be in prison for every day their kids are, because they are just as responsible for what happened because of the absolutely toxic homelife they created....

 

Craig seems to think that only Haitians need to be sterilized.... Like Fukk..... There's plenty of toxic chav scum breeding generations of feral brats in this country who should never EVER have been allowed to be parents..... I seriously think it's about time for a serious psychological examination of all 'would-be' parents, regardless of race, creed or social class; you fail, you get the snip, no messing.... -_-

 

As for the Tories proposal... Well, it's typical headline-grabbing guff from the "Empty Suit Cameron", it wont do anything fundamental to mend "Broken Britain". Frankly, if you ask me, it was Thatcher and the "Me Me Me", "Greed Is Good" mentality of the 80s that broke it in the first place..... Mind you, not that Nu Labor has done anything much to actually change it, they presided over some of the worst excesses of greed culture and "Boom and Bust" we have ever seen.....

This is really just another example of how some people should just be castrated or sterilized tbh so they cant have children that they can abuse physically or mentally.... These kids were brought up in a house where violence was an everyday occurrence, a NORM, so, Jesus, it's little wonder what happened happened.... These so-called "Parents" should be in prison for every day their kids are, because they are just as responsible for what happened because of the absolutely toxic homelife they created....

 

Craig seems to think that only Haitians need to be sterilized.... Like Fukk..... There's plenty of toxic chav scum breeding generations of feral brats in this country who should never EVER have been allowed to be parents..... I seriously think it's about time for a serious psychological examination of all 'would-be' parents, regardless of race, creed or social class; you fail, you get the snip, no messing.... -_-

 

As for the Tories proposal... Well, it's typical headline-grabbing guff from the "Empty Suit Cameron", it wont do anything fundamental to mend "Broken Britain". Frankly, if you ask me, it was Thatcher and the "Me Me Me", "Greed Is Good" mentality of the 80s that broke it in the first place..... Mind you, not that Nu Labor has done anything much to actually change it, they presided over some of the worst excesses of greed culture and "Boom and Bust" we have ever seen.....

 

If that is the case then you should do a search of my posts on this forum and you will see that to much stick I bought up the idea of parental licences where people would have to pass a series of IQ tests, psychological fitness tests, morality tests and financial means tests before they were allowed to be issued with the licence to have the child (but adoption not abortion being the sanction) so you couldn't be more wrong if you tried

 

It is not just chav familes where there is a culture of domestic violence infact it is more so a middle/upper middle class issue (stressful jobs) etc than a man having a few Stella's and knocking his wife about so domestic violence isn't just a feral chav thing

 

I seriously think it's about time for a serious psychological examination of all 'would-be' parents, regardless of race, creed or social class; you fail, you get the snip, no messing.... -_-

 

What a ridiculous proposal by both Grimley and BA. :rolleyes: It's one of the basic human rights of every man and woman to have children if they so wish. If you'd applied psychological and financial tests then maybe I couldn't have had my daughter. Utterly ludicrous. :angry: :rolleyes: These cases are few and far between anyway.

Edited January 22, 201015 yr by Victor Meldrew

What a ridiculous proposal by both Grimley and BA. :rolleyes: It's one of the basic human rights of every man and woman to have children if they so wish. If you'd applied psychological and financial tests then maybe I couldn't have had my daughter. Utterly ludicrous. :angry: :rolleyes: These cases are few and far between anyway.

 

Yeah, and....? :lol:

 

The test I propose has nothing to do with financial ability... It's 100% psychological and emotional capabilities.... So, an inappropriate middle or upper class person would be caught out as well as an inappropriate working or chav class person.....

 

 

What a ridiculous proposal by both Grimley and BA. :rolleyes: It's one of the basic human rights of every man and woman to have children if they so wish. If you'd applied psychological and financial tests then maybe I couldn't have had my daughter. Utterly ludicrous. :angry: :rolleyes: These cases are few and far between anyway.

 

Well its time that less focus was put on rights and more focus on obligations

 

Obligation to bring the child up properly, obligation to not expect the taxpayer to pay for the child, obligation to teach the child morals and good behaviour etc

 

Today's feral chav scum who have been causing mayhem and disorder are tomorrow's parents, they will bring up their kids same way as they are if not worse, can't be allowed to happen

Yeah, and....? :lol:

 

The test I propose has nothing to do with financial ability... It's 100% psychological and emotional capabilities.... So, an inappropriate middle or upper class person would be caught out as well as an inappropriate working or chav class person.....

 

I would extend it to financial though too, that doesn't mean I want to create an upper middle class society but I think also at the same time it is wrong to create one that is dependent on the welfare state to survive so unless would be parents can prove they have financial means to feed and clothe the child (non welfare state) then the licence should be declined

Well its time that less focus was put on rights and more focus on obligations

 

Obligation to bring the child up properly, obligation to not expect the taxpayer to pay for the child, obligation to teach the child morals and good behaviour etc

 

Today's feral chav scum who have been causing mayhem and disorder are tomorrow's parents, they will bring up their kids same way as they are if not worse, can't be allowed to happen

 

Well they still have the right to have children if they want. That should never be taken away from anyone.

Well they still have the right to have children if they want. That should never be taken away from anyone.

 

Cameron is going to withdraw the UK from the Human Rights Act of the EU so not for much longer

Much as this appalls me, I think I'm with Craig on this one.

 

I don't like the of enforcing the snip, simply because it doesn't take into account the possibility of people being rehabilitated and recovering at a later point.

However I think a part of me DOES agree with an emotional assessment of expectant parents, and if they fail they have the choice of abortion or adoption. It's an utterly horrible Big Brother idea, but I honestly don't know how else we can really combat the increasing problem of feral youths. Dave's Hug-A-Hoodie campaign clearly isn't the way.

Well they still have the right to have children if they want. That should never be taken away from anyone.

 

That's all well and good, but you're only taking the parents' feelings into account here, and giving no thought to the children themselves.

I agree that parents should demonstrate that they are psychologically and emotionally capable of bringing up children safely, but I would never ever back extending such a thing to financial limits :/

I agree that parents should demonstrate that they are psychologically and emotionally capable of bringing up children safely, but I would never ever back extending such a thing to financial limits :/

 

I would Tyron

 

The dependency/welfare culture in this country is a cancer, chavs that are born into welfare are unlikely in 90% of cases to break away from welfare and their kids in turn would spend a life on benefits, there is an underclass in this country of career welfare claimants and is it good them breeding ? I don't think it is unreasonable for anyone who has a kid to be able to show they can afford it

I would Tyron

 

The dependency/welfare culture in this country is a cancer, chavs that are born into welfare are unlikely in 90% of cases to break away from welfare and their kids in turn would spend a life on benefits, there is an underclass in this country of career welfare claimants and is it good them breeding ?

That isn't a problem with people who can't afford to raise children giving birth, that's a problem with social mobility...something which has oh-so coincidentally been going down the pan since Margaret Thatcher. How lovely, you've consigned them to poverty and you're now proposing they not be allowed to breed because they can't afford anything, thanks to these measures you've proposed.

That isn't a problem with people who can't afford to raise children giving birth, that's a problem with social mobility...something which has oh-so coincidentally been going down the pan since Margaret Thatcher. How lovely, you've consigned them to poverty and you're now proposing they not be allowed to breed because they can't afford anything, thanks to these measures you've proposed.

 

Whether you are right or wrong Maggie has been out of power 20 years now so the current administration has had ample time to make changes given they champion themselves as the party of the poor

 

Whether you are right or wrong Maggie has been out of power 20 years now so the current administration has had ample time to make changes given they champion themselves as the party of the poor

As I've said many times, the lack of social mobility under Labour is by far my biggest criticism of them. Thatcher was still the one who induced the change...

 

...In any case, despite the fact social mobility is down massively, it does not necessarily mean it is impossible. Such a proposal would've had yourself and Sir Alan Sugar refused, would it not? Two successful businessmen...

As I've said many times, the lack of social mobility under Labour is by far my biggest criticism of them. Thatcher was still the one who induced the change...

 

...In any case, despite the fact social mobility is down massively, it does not necessarily mean it is impossible. Such a proposal would've had yourself and Sir Alan Sugar refused, would it not? Two successful businessmen...

 

Anyone can make something of their lives if they get off their arse and make the effort

 

(Although Sugar probably earns more in a day in interest than I earn in a year lol)

 

But if people in poverty / tough social conditions make the effort and work hard instead of leeching off the state all their lives then they can break free of the poverty trap

 

Look at Ron Dennis the McLaren F1 boss, when he was 16 he was so determined to make something of his life that he walked 3.5 miles there and 3.5 miles back every day to a trainee mechanics job because he wanted to break free from poverty, he is now worth £400m, prick though he is I admire how he got off his arse and didn't make excuses about his poverty and his lot in life, anyone on a council estate can do the same if they have the drive

I don't like the of enforcing the snip, simply because it doesn't take into account the possibility of people being rehabilitated and recovering at a later point.

 

absolutely... how many of us are really mature or responsible at 20? there are plenty of cases where people can reform, mature and become responsible adults. to have the snip at an early age would deprive them of any future parenthood.

 

camerons an arsehole, in fact its rather disgusting that he is trying to use this sickening case for political gains. this case is rare, but not6 unheard of.... not only the bulger case in the early 90's but there was mary bell in 1968... yep, a female evil doer!.

Anyone can make something of their lives if they get off their arse and make the effort

 

(Although Sugar probably earns more in a day in interest than I earn in a year lol)

 

But if people in poverty / tough social conditions make the effort and work hard instead of leeching off the state all their lives then they can break free of the poverty trap

 

Look at Ron Dennis the McLaren F1 boss, when he was 16 he was so determined to make something of his life that he walked 3.5 miles there and 3.5 miles back every day to a trainee mechanics job because he wanted to break free from poverty, he is now worth £400m, prick though he is I admire how he got off his arse and didn't make excuses about his poverty and his lot in life, anyone on a council estate can do the same if they have the drive

Quite, hence why your proposals to have the poor not be allowed to procreate seem just a tad bizarre :P