May 12, 201015 yr I don't recall any information from the UN suggesting us defending our territory was illegal The Falklands conflict had a UN mandate But hey you would rather we had stood idly by and had British citizens ethnically cleansed clearly :rolleyes: Argentina was run by a deranged dictator in Galtieri with an appalling human rights record, British citizens in the Falklands were in danger, the Falklands was right If Galtieri had had the islanders killed or tortured or whatever Maggie would have got appalling stick for sitting on her arse doing nothing so it was a no win situation for her If you meant a UN mandate, why didn't you say so? Of course not long before Argentina invaded the Falklands Thatcher sent Nicholas Ridley to negotiate a deal to give them away. The plan was only abandoned after Tory backbenchers gave him a roasting on his return. And she didn't let Pinochet's appalling human rights record as a deranged dictator prevent her calling him a friend.
May 12, 201015 yr If you meant a UN mandate, why didn't you say so? Of course not long before Argentina invaded the Falklands Thatcher sent Nicholas Ridley to negotiate a deal to give them away. The plan was only abandoned after Tory backbenchers gave him a roasting on his return. And she didn't let Pinochet's appalling human rights record as a deranged dictator prevent her calling him a friend. Pinochet saved the lives of thousands of British servicemen by giving them intelligence information and allowing Chile to be used as a refuelling base for British planes, whatever his regime was up to he was of valuable use to us in that conflict and I am grateful to him for that
May 12, 201015 yr Pinochet saved the lives of thousands of British servicemen by giving them intelligence information and allowing Chile to be used as a refuelling base for British planes, whatever his regime was up to he was of valuable use to us in that conflict and I am grateful to him for that And are you equally grateful to Stalin for his help in WWII? Should we have described him as a friend thereafter?
May 12, 201015 yr And are you equally grateful to Stalin for his help in WWII? Should we have described him as a friend thereafter? He was a friend to Britain during the Falklands conflict I would not have wished to live in Chile under Pinochet's rule but if something is going to benefit Britain it is wrong to be all moralistic and Pinochet's information and logistical support helped Britain I don't like the Chinese domestic policy but they are the worlds most important economy in the coming years is it right to miss our share of the action because of their human rights record ? Edited May 12, 201015 yr by I ❤ JustinBieber
May 12, 201015 yr Of course some areas and some people didn't do well under Maggie, $h!t happens, not everyone will do well under any leader it is impossible to keep 50 odd million people happy but Maggie turned the country around from a dinosaur debt ridden strike happy nation into a global powerhouse service economy. Greatest PM ever That is possibly the most ignorant thing I've ever seen you say on here.. Come on if under Labour your business went under and it completely wrecked your life due to their polices you'd still not have forgiven them 20 years later no matter what. Like a lot of Thatcherites I think you don't realise HOW badly some people's lives were ruined and you wouldn't believe that some people still suffer now but hey! They're poor now so they must have suddenly lost IQ points and become unintelligent which means they don't matter.
May 12, 201015 yr Damn you beat me by 2 secs :( All this champagne has gone to your head Craig. You did better in the quiz when there was a Labour Government in office. Norma
May 12, 201015 yr That is possibly the most ignorant thing I've ever seen you say on here.. Come on if under Labour your business went under and it completely wrecked your life due to their polices you'd still not have forgiven them 20 years later no matter what. Like a lot of Thatcherites I think you don't realise HOW badly some people's lives were ruined and you wouldn't believe that some people still suffer now but hey! They're poor now so they must have suddenly lost IQ points and become unintelligent which means they don't matter. There is/was no point in propping up lame duck crumbling industries with taxpayers money just to keep people in jobs, coal was so riddled with industrial action and over pricing that mines were losing money hand over fist and it was cheaper for businesses to import coal from Romania than it was to use British coal, steel was in massive decline and over staffed and losing money with no realistic sign of making any, tin mines were uncompetitive, there is no justification in just writing blank cheques of taxpayers money to prop up uncompetitive industries that were dinosaurs Britain under Maggie developed into a service economy and that was the right thing to do Of course areas where there was mines, steelworks, tin mines etc lost out but Maggie did the right thing in not throwing good money after bad
May 12, 201015 yr That is possibly the most ignorant thing I've ever seen you say on here.. Come on if under Labour your business went under and it completely wrecked your life due to their polices you'd still not have forgiven them 20 years later no matter what. Like a lot of Thatcherites I think you don't realise HOW badly some people's lives were ruined and you wouldn't believe that some people still suffer now but hey! They're poor now so they must have suddenly lost IQ points and become unintelligent which means they don't matter. I think the thing that Craig forgets ... or just doesn't want to remember (or more accurately ... just doesn't really care about) is that when the mines were closed down ... almost all the men in those areas were left unemployed in bulk. Whole classrooms of children were deprived of a working male role model in their families. And the worst thing was - the pit closures happened on a bunch of lies that were told at the time. One of my favourite ever films is Brassed Off. If anyone ever, ever has a kind word to say about Margaret Thatcher I'd suggest they watch it. On education ... the last thing the Tories want is a better education for the poorest. Within two years we'll have classrooms with one teacher to 50 children ... 50% of them will be with special needs - and certainly without classroom assistants to help out. Who knows ... the teachers could become a big a problem to Cameron as the miners were to Thatcher. Even bigger perhaps. Norma
May 12, 201015 yr I think the thing that Craig forgets ... or just doesn't want to remember (or more accurately ... just doesn't really care about) is that when the mines were closed down ... almost all the men in those areas were left unemployed in bulk. Whole classrooms of children were deprived of a working male role model in their families. And the worst thing was - the pit closures happened on a bunch of lies that were told at the time. One of my favourite ever films is Brassed Off. If anyone ever, ever has a kind word to say about Margaret Thatcher I'd suggest they watch it. On education ... the last thing the Tories want is a better education for the poorest. Within two years we'll have classrooms with one teacher to 50 children ... 50% of them will be with special needs - and certainly without classroom assistants to help out. Who knows ... the teachers could become a big a problem to Cameron as the miners were to Thatcher. Even bigger perhaps. Norma But what was the solution Norma ? Just throwing money at the industry for the sole purpose of propping up workers ? that isn't the answer, do it with the mines you have to do it with everyone, of course miners lost out but just writing blank cheques for industries that were losing money hand over fist and never likely to make any money again was unsustainable
May 12, 201015 yr One of my worries is that the Tories will make the state system more selective - I hope they don't though, my Mum [who teaches at a state school :o] seems to think a mixed ability/class group is best for all the students. Other than that I'm *caustiously* optimistic Edited May 12, 201015 yr by nickthenoodle
May 12, 201015 yr But what was the solution Norma ? Just throwing money at the industry for the sole purpose of propping up workers ? that isn't the answer, do it with the mines you have to do it with everyone, of course miners lost out but just writing blank cheques for industries that were losing money hand over fist and never likely to make any money again was unsustainable Even Norman Tebbit acknowledged (albeit about 20 odd years too late) that the pit closure 'program' went too far. Norma
May 12, 201015 yr Even Norman Tebbit acknowledged (albeit about 20 odd years too late) that the pit closure 'program' went too far. Norma It was only the loss making mines that were closed, the very few that were still making some money survived Tebbit must be mellowing in his old age but I don't believe in throwing money at failing industries, it was just best to cut the loss making pits loose
May 12, 201015 yr But what was the solution Norma ? Just throwing money at the industry for the sole purpose of propping up workers ? that isn't the answer, do it with the mines you have to do it with everyone, of course miners lost out but just writing blank cheques for industries that were losing money hand over fist and never likely to make any money again was unsustainable They could at least have done more to help people find alternative employment but they didn't even do that.
May 12, 201015 yr They could at least have done more to help people find alternative employment but they didn't even do that. They did, they created enterprise zones in places like South Wales and the North East, companies like Nissan, Sony to name but a few set up factories in those areas Not every area did well, course not, it is physically impossible for a government to please every single region and town in a country
May 12, 201015 yr It was only the loss making mines that were closed, the very few that were still making some money survived Tebbit must be mellowing in his old age but I don't believe in throwing money at failing industries, it was just best to cut the loss making pits loose Probably off at a different tangent ... but aren't government subsidies given to farmers in times of hardship? By hardship I mean ... failing? What's the difference? Mind you ... I know of a lot of millionaire farmers ... don't recall many millionaire coal-miners though. Funny that isn't it? I know the next time any farmers complain about hardship ... I'll wonder how much sympathy or solidarity they gave to the miners back in the 80's. Norma
May 12, 201015 yr Probably off at a different tangent ... but aren't government subsidies given to farmers in times of hardship? By hardship I mean ... failing? What's the difference? Mind you ... I know of a lot of millionaire farmers ... don't recall many millionaire coal-miners though. Funny that isn't it? I know the next time any farmers complain about hardship ... I'll wonder how much sympathy or solidarity they gave to the miners back in the 80's. Norma That is through the EU, the common agricultural policy where farmers are paid not to produce stuff, it is not a UK government specific thing it is EU wide, if I am wrong someone feel free to correct me but that is my understanding of the situation
May 12, 201015 yr That is through the EU, the common agricultural policy where farmers are paid not to produce stuff, it is not a UK government specific thing it is EU wide, if I am wrong someone feel free to correct me but that is my understanding of the situation The CAP is part of it. That remains probably the worst thing about the EU. However, the French are never likely to agree to any significant reform and as long as they can veto it (a rule which successive British governments have supported in other areas) it's not going to happen. But UK government policy (under both Tories and Labour) has added to it. It started as an act of gratitude for keeping the nation fed in WWII and has carried on ever since.
May 12, 201015 yr The CAP is part of it. That remains probably the worst thing about the EU. However, the French are never likely to agree to any significant reform and as long as they can veto it (a rule which successive British governments have supported in other areas) it's not going to happen. But UK government policy (under both Tories and Labour) has added to it. It started as an act of gratitude for keeping the nation fed in WWII and has carried on ever since. That aside though ... more sympathy from the general public was afforded the farmers than the miners ... the miners were not only crushed by Thatcher but by about 90% of the media at the time. Anyway ... that's all my rantings over with now. It's done and there's nothing that can be done about it. For the sake of the country I'm hoping that Cameron does work out ok ... but another part of me wants to see him faced with a load of adverse 'forces outside of his control' like Gordon Brown had to contend with. But even if that does happen ... he has the luxury now of blaming it on the Lib-Dems. Norma
May 13, 201015 yr if money had been INVESTED in some of the coalmines, they would have carried on producing a more competitive product, keeping people in jobs. it had nothing to do with economics, that was an excuse, it was all about smashing the unions. tatcher LIED about not having a pit hit list, scargill was proven to be RIGHT.
Create an account or sign in to comment