Why is the "national security" and "peaceful existence" more important for Israelis than it is for Palestinians?

 

As I've said on this board before, I have ethnically part-Jewish heritage, and until a few years ago I would've parroted the same old $h!t you're coming out with, because I'd been told it by my dad. But the Lebanon conflict in 2006 really opened my eyes as to who the terrorists are in this situation.

 

(And incidentally, even my dad is uncomfortable about Israel's actions this week.)

 

I accept that this week has been bad PR, I support in principle the boarding of the ship but agree that it should have been done in Israeli waters as opposed to international waters, that did not help our cause at all

 

There are things that I can not talk about on here with regards my allegiance and support for Israel and please do not probe but my loyalty to Israel and the jewish cause is too deep to change as is my dislike of the palestinians

I'm actually quite intrigued to know what these views are. Is it possible Craig could be granted an exemption from being banned if he just states what his views are, and not that they should actually happen?

I'm actually quite intrigued to know what these views are. Is it possible Craig could be granted an exemption from being banned if he just states what his views are, and not that they should actually happen?

 

My views on Israel / Palestine have been posted in this thread, I kept within the rules :)

 

There is nothing much more I can really add tbh

 

 

I prefer the term "population transfer", ethnic cleansing brings images of Bosnian Serbs wiping out the local populations whereas I prefer a non violent transfer of the Palestinian population and Gaza and West Bank annexed by Israel or alternatively the area after the expulsion of the Palestinians become a UN controlled no go area buffer zone like was set up in Southern Iraq, the transfer of the Palestinians from Gaza and West Bank would be in the interests of Israel's national security and would reduce the risk of terrorism.

 

I am not prepared to endorse the term ethnic cleansing as I would be sailing very close to the wind with regards my account here

WTF? This puts you on par with the BNP in the UK. You may not want to endorse the term 'ethnically cleansing' but that's precisely what you are doing. You think it's ok to move people from their homes on account of their race or religion? What a joke.

WTF? This puts you on par with the BNP in the UK. You may not want to endorse the term 'ethnically cleansing' but that's precisely what you are doing. You think it's ok to move people from their homes on account of their race or religion? What a joke.

 

I don't give a damn about their race or religion, it is their BEHAVIOUR that is the issue, couldn't care if they were white, black, yellow, or are pink with blue spots so there is no race issue involved whatsoever

Edited June 4, 201015 yr by I ❤ JustinBieber

Irish Free Gaza ship heading toward Gaza coast

 

The MV Rachel Corrie, an Irish cargo ship that passengers say is loaded with humanitarian aid for Gaza, is 150 miles away from the Palestinian territory and will arrive there on Saturday, according to the Free Gaza movement, which owns the vessel.

Nineteen people, including activists and crew members, were aboard the vessel and were determined to reach Gaza in spite of the Israeli naval blockade, passengers told CNN.

 

"We're not prepared to turn around," said Irish Nobel peace laureate Mairead Maguire, who is aboard the ship. "We are prepared to go straight to Gaza."

Where the ship will go once it nears Gaza remained unclear.

 

"We will stay within the international waters," said Maguire. "If Israel refuses that we get into Gaza and insists on boarding our boat, then we will sit down as non-violent activists. We will be very peaceful. We will not resist the Israeli navy coming aboard, arresting us and taking us by force to Ashdod, but we will not turn around. We will keep going."

 

Former Assistant U.N. Secretary-General Denis Halliday, also aboard the Rachel Corrie, also said the passengers had no plans to confront the Israelis.

"We will stand back and show we are harmless and unarmed -- we will put up no resistance," he said. "We're not going to make any silly mistakes."

 

Israel has offered to unload the vessel's cargo in its Ashdod port, screen the material and deliver it to Gaza, but there were fears of another high-seas confrontation. Monday, Israeli commandos stormed a flotilla of six Gaza-bound ships -- which activists said were on a humanitarian mission -- leading to the deaths of nine people.

Organizers say the ship is carrying 550 tons of cement to help in the effort to rebuild schools, homes and other buildings destroyed in Gaza.

 

Maguire said the ship is also carrying "tons" of writing materials donated by Norway, pharmaceuticals and medical equipment -- including wheelchairs -- donated by Scotland, and toys.

 

Israel says it needs to have its naval blockade of Gaza to stop weaponry from being transported to militants there intent on attacking Israel.

 

An Israeli government official, who spoke on background because of the diplomatic sensitivity of the issue, told CNN the government is offering to receive the ship's cargo, as it has offered other vessels, if it docks at Ashdod's port.

 

That was the same deal rejected by the flotilla before the Israeli commandos raided one of them Monday.

 

Violence erupted on one of the ships, leading to the deaths of nine people, all Turkish citizens -- including one of dual Turkish-American nationality, as well as many injured people. Israel said its commandos were attacked and passengers said the troops assaulted them.

 

On Friday two Turkish ambulance planes left for Israel to treat and transport five wounded Turkish citizens back to Turkey, the country's state-run Anadolu news agency reported.

 

Other Turkish activists on the ship have returned from Israel to a hero's welcome.

 

Turkish President Abdullah Gul said Thursday that the once-close Turkish-Israeli ties "will never be the same. This incident has left an irreparable and deep scar."

 

Thousands of angry people attended a mass funeral in Istanbul for the victims and chanted slogans against Israel.

 

Tensions among Palestinians are also simmering.

 

"Ongoing provocations and systematic discrimination against Palestinians signify Israel's continuous disrespect of international law and human rights and destabilize the region," chief Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erakat said Friday.

 

The tensions have sparked security concerns within Israel.

 

Israeli police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld told CNN there would be a heightened police presence to keep the peace. Restrictions have also been placed on the Al-Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem, preventing men younger than 40 from praying there, he said.

 

The violence also sparked official and grassroots rage from capitals and street protests outside the Middle East on Thursday. South Africa recalled its ambassador to Israel.

 

At the United Nations, the Security Council called for an inquiry of the flotilla raid and the Human Rights Council voted for a probe, but Israel says it alone -- and not an international entity -- should be investigating.

 

Mark Regev, the Israeli prime minister's office spokesman, said after military operations, it is Israel's "standard practice" to carry out "a prompt, professional, transparent and objective investigation in accordance with the highest international standards."

 

The Israel Defense Forces Military Advocate General -- the body that ensures the military upholds the rule of law -- said in a report that the interception of the Gaza flotilla was legal under international law.

 

The body said international law allows a country to stop a vessel in international waters if it attempts to breach a naval blockade -- even before such a blockade is actually breached.

 

Israeli Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman told Israel Radio on Thursday that members of the flotilla were carrying large amounts of cash, a suggestion that people on the ship had untoward and not humanitarian intentions.

 

Organizers have said the Rachel Corrie left Ireland laden with educational materials, toys and medical equipment along with the cement in the latest effort by peace activists to deliver humanitarian goods and break Israel's blockade.

 

Earlier Thursday, a Free Gaza Movement activist told CNN that the ship delayed its voyage while it was being equipped with video and satellite devices to to record what is happening on the vessel.

 

Adam Shapiro, Free Gaza board member, said the additions to the ship were being made for safety purposes.

 

Free Gaza activist Derek Graham has said the plan was for the Rachel Corrie to be unloaded in Gaza and then return to Ireland.

 

"We're just hopeful the Israelis will let us make a small gesture for the people of Palestine," Halliday said. "Because we believe Monday was a gross error."

 

He added that Monday's confrontation resulted from "faults on both sides," saying the effort on the Rachel Corrie is a "different ball game."

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/06...dex.html?hpt=T2

 

_______

 

Interesting to see how this turns out. I guess we'll find out tomorrow. I hope it goes peacefully and Israel doesn't use force....

Irish Free Gaza ship heading toward Gaza coast

 

The MV Rachel Corrie, an Irish cargo ship that passengers say is loaded with humanitarian aid for Gaza, is 150 miles away from the Palestinian territory and will arrive there on Saturday, according to the Free Gaza movement, which owns the vessel.

Nineteen people, including activists and crew members, were aboard the vessel and were determined to reach Gaza in spite of the Israeli naval blockade, passengers told CNN.

 

"We're not prepared to turn around," said Irish Nobel peace laureate Mairead Maguire, who is aboard the ship. "We are prepared to go straight to Gaza."

Where the ship will go once it nears Gaza remained unclear.

 

"We will stay within the international waters," said Maguire. "If Israel refuses that we get into Gaza and insists on boarding our boat, then we will sit down as non-violent activists. We will be very peaceful. We will not resist the Israeli navy coming aboard, arresting us and taking us by force to Ashdod, but we will not turn around. We will keep going."

 

Former Assistant U.N. Secretary-General Denis Halliday, also aboard the Rachel Corrie, also said the passengers had no plans to confront the Israelis.

"We will stand back and show we are harmless and unarmed -- we will put up no resistance," he said. "We're not going to make any silly mistakes."

 

Israel has offered to unload the vessel's cargo in its Ashdod port, screen the material and deliver it to Gaza, but there were fears of another high-seas confrontation. Monday, Israeli commandos stormed a flotilla of six Gaza-bound ships -- which activists said were on a humanitarian mission -- leading to the deaths of nine people.

Organizers say the ship is carrying 550 tons of cement to help in the effort to rebuild schools, homes and other buildings destroyed in Gaza.

 

Maguire said the ship is also carrying "tons" of writing materials donated by Norway, pharmaceuticals and medical equipment -- including wheelchairs -- donated by Scotland, and toys.

 

Israel says it needs to have its naval blockade of Gaza to stop weaponry from being transported to militants there intent on attacking Israel.

 

An Israeli government official, who spoke on background because of the diplomatic sensitivity of the issue, told CNN the government is offering to receive the ship's cargo, as it has offered other vessels, if it docks at Ashdod's port.

 

That was the same deal rejected by the flotilla before the Israeli commandos raided one of them Monday.

 

Violence erupted on one of the ships, leading to the deaths of nine people, all Turkish citizens -- including one of dual Turkish-American nationality, as well as many injured people. Israel said its commandos were attacked and passengers said the troops assaulted them.

 

On Friday two Turkish ambulance planes left for Israel to treat and transport five wounded Turkish citizens back to Turkey, the country's state-run Anadolu news agency reported.

 

Other Turkish activists on the ship have returned from Israel to a hero's welcome.

 

Turkish President Abdullah Gul said Thursday that the once-close Turkish-Israeli ties "will never be the same. This incident has left an irreparable and deep scar."

 

Thousands of angry people attended a mass funeral in Istanbul for the victims and chanted slogans against Israel.

 

Tensions among Palestinians are also simmering.

 

"Ongoing provocations and systematic discrimination against Palestinians signify Israel's continuous disrespect of international law and human rights and destabilize the region," chief Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erakat said Friday.

 

The tensions have sparked security concerns within Israel.

 

Israeli police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld told CNN there would be a heightened police presence to keep the peace. Restrictions have also been placed on the Al-Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem, preventing men younger than 40 from praying there, he said.

 

The violence also sparked official and grassroots rage from capitals and street protests outside the Middle East on Thursday. South Africa recalled its ambassador to Israel.

 

At the United Nations, the Security Council called for an inquiry of the flotilla raid and the Human Rights Council voted for a probe, but Israel says it alone -- and not an international entity -- should be investigating.

 

Mark Regev, the Israeli prime minister's office spokesman, said after military operations, it is Israel's "standard practice" to carry out "a prompt, professional, transparent and objective investigation in accordance with the highest international standards."

 

The Israel Defense Forces Military Advocate General -- the body that ensures the military upholds the rule of law -- said in a report that the interception of the Gaza flotilla was legal under international law.

 

The body said international law allows a country to stop a vessel in international waters if it attempts to breach a naval blockade -- even before such a blockade is actually breached.

 

Israeli Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman told Israel Radio on Thursday that members of the flotilla were carrying large amounts of cash, a suggestion that people on the ship had untoward and not humanitarian intentions.

 

Organizers have said the Rachel Corrie left Ireland laden with educational materials, toys and medical equipment along with the cement in the latest effort by peace activists to deliver humanitarian goods and break Israel's blockade.

 

Earlier Thursday, a Free Gaza Movement activist told CNN that the ship delayed its voyage while it was being equipped with video and satellite devices to to record what is happening on the vessel.

 

Adam Shapiro, Free Gaza board member, said the additions to the ship were being made for safety purposes.

 

Free Gaza activist Derek Graham has said the plan was for the Rachel Corrie to be unloaded in Gaza and then return to Ireland.

 

"We're just hopeful the Israelis will let us make a small gesture for the people of Palestine," Halliday said. "Because we believe Monday was a gross error."

 

He added that Monday's confrontation resulted from "faults on both sides," saying the effort on the Rachel Corrie is a "different ball game."

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/06...dex.html?hpt=T2

 

_______

 

Interesting to see how this turns out. I guess we'll find out tomorrow. I hope it goes peacefully and Israel doesn't use force....

 

Bunch of lefties playing mind games with Israel and testing their will, I hope that Israel's will is still strong and they arrest those on board, they are trying to take the p*** out of Israel, Israel give in then everyone will try it on.

 

It is not my place to say whether the blockade is right or wrong but there is one and I don't want to see a bunch of lefties trying to make mugs of Israel like this so I hope they will raid the ships and arrest those on board and make an example of them to deter others

I don't give a damn about their race or religion, it is their BEHAVIOUR that is the issue, couldn't care if they were white, black, yellow, or are pink with blue spots so there is no race issue involved whatsoever

My arse! What so all Palestinians are the same, regardless of age, sex, political persuasion? Did all Palestinians vote for Hamas? This is blatant racism against Palestinians.

 

The Israeli blockade is hurting all people in Palestine and I have no sympathy with the Israeli government and their (illegal) operations of which there have been many examples.

My arse! What so all Palestinians are the same, regardless of age, sex, political persuasion? Did all Palestinians vote for Hamas? This is blatant racism against Palestinians.

 

Palestinians are muslims if I was anti muslim I would be anti EVERYONE in the region, there are even a lot of muslims who live in Israel and I have never made a post on here about the other muslim nations in the region so trying to call me out as a racist is destined to failure as I am NOT one.

 

You make a good deal of intelligent posts on music etc so it is a shame that you are lowering and demeaning yourself by acting in this way

My arse! What so all Palestinians are the same, regardless of age, sex, political persuasion? Did all Palestinians vote for Hamas? This is blatant racism against Palestinians.

 

The Israeli blockade is hurting all people in Palestine and I have no sympathy with the Israeli government and their (illegal) operations of which there have been many examples.

 

Palestinian rockets and guns are hurting Israelis, Palestinians bought this blockade on themselves

 

Israel rightly are taking all necessary means to ensure Palestinians don't get rockets and AK47's

These "lefties" are trying to feed the people who are dying at the hands of Israel. Sorry Craig, but if you think it's right to deny these innocent people of food, medication and education because a select few are terrorists, then you're extremely twisted. Israel breaks international law time and time again. They have killed thousands of innocent civilians deliberately in the last few years. So yes, this ship should go to Gaza. I don't give a damn if it enters Gaza "illegally". Israel doesn't obey the law, so why should we?

 

 

Palestinians are muslims if I was anti muslim I would be anti EVERYONE in the region, there are even a lot of muslims who live in Israel and I have never made a post on here about the other muslim nations in the region so trying to call me out as a racist is destined to failure as I am NOT one.

 

You make a good deal of intelligent posts on music etc so it is a shame that you are lowering and demeaning yourself by acting in this way

I'm not the one demeaning myself. I never said Muslims, I said Palestinians. Get it right (unlike the Israeli government).

Palestinian rockets and guns are hurting Israelis, Palestinians bought this blockade on themselves

 

Israel rightly are taking all necessary means to ensure Palestinians don't get rockets and AK47's

By all necessary I take it you mean illegal. There is absolutely no defence on this.

Palestinians are muslims if I was anti muslim I would be anti EVERYONE in the region, there are even a lot of muslims who live in Israel and I have never made a post on here about the other muslim nations in the region so trying to call me out as a racist is destined to failure as I am NOT one.

 

You make a good deal of intelligent posts on music etc so it is a shame that you are lowering and demeaning yourself by acting in this way

What, even the Christian ones?

It is not my place to say whether the blockade is right or wrong but there is one

 

Whether right or wrong, it's against international law.

I'm actually quite intrigued to know what these views are. Is it possible Craig could be granted an exemption from being banned if he just states what his views are, and not that they should actually happen?

 

 

I dont care what his reasons are, or if he even had relatives who died in the concentration camps, nothing justifies having views which advocated the extermination of an entire race of people that Craig did in the past.... In fact, nothing justifies what Israel itself is doing to the Palestinians anyway... It was the bloody NAZI GERMANS that tried to exterminate them, had feck all to do with the Arabs.... I could understand the Jews wanting to annexe a chunk of Germany after WW2 to call the "Jewish homeland", that would've actually been morally justified in a lot of ways, but, like I say, what the fukk are they doing taking bits of Palestine for...? Just because some tw@t wrote it in the Bible makes it so...??

I don't give a damn about their race or religion, it is their BEHAVIOUR that is the issue, couldn't care if they were white, black, yellow, or are pink with blue spots so there is no race issue involved whatsoever

 

Well, you were the one who brought up the Bible as a justification mate... So, tough sh!t if you dont like it being thrown back in your face..... -_-

Just because some tw@t wrote it in the Bible makes it so...??

 

I saw this posted on another website, might be of interest:

 

Try reading Ezekiel. God actually orders the destruction of Israel (the scattering of their people anyway)l, and one of the reasons was - get this - unfair treatment of foreigners! 22:7 for anyone interested.

Palestinian rockets and guns are hurting Israelis, Palestinians bought this blockade on themselves

 

Israel rightly are taking all necessary means to ensure Palestinians don't get rockets and AK47's

So by your logic, The UK government should have blockaded Northern Ireland during the 70s and the 80s to ensure the people of mainland Britain were protected? Absolute twaddle.

I saw this posted on another website, might be of interest:

 

:lol: :lol:

 

Ezekiel? That would be New Testament yeah...? The Orthodox Jews dont belive in the NT, probably because of passages such as that which totally contradicts their whole flawed theory on Jews being "God's Chosen People!"..... :rolleyes: